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Monday, November 04, 1996 Iomega was down $11/16 Thursday, closing at $20 7/8 (-3.19%). TODAY'S RECAP: The rumor mill churned mightily in The Motley Fool's Iomega folder all weekend long. Specifically, a number of readers reported that Gateway 2000 sales reps were telling customers that Gateway would begin offering Iomega products in its computer systems as early as today, Monday. This rumor has not been confirmed, and from all reports even the Gateway reps were playing cagey with this information. Therefore, we'll leave it to our readers to decide the validity of this speculation based on the posts we have culled for you below. Also, at least two contributors reported this weekend that LS-120 drives appeared in the corporate offices where they work. Sunday night one of our periodic clashes between bulls and bears broke out; this one, between ~HYPEMENOT~ and ~MRMENSA3~ produced some interesting discussion about the LS-120 drive, and so we've included the best of that thread in our report this morning as well. INDEX: Use the Search or Find feature of your word processor to locate the article number (Find: 1++, 3++, etc.) -- or use AOL's Edit>>Find in Top Window Feature. If Find in Top Window is dimmed, just click on some text, anything, in the IOMG Today window and try again.
1++JustBearIt describes the Zip disk design and manufacturing
process. And now, the Best of the Board...Started 3 a.m. 11/1/96. 1+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Blade Alert Price Slashing Date: 96-11-01 10:31:20 EST From: JustBearIt
>>>I'm not sure about the cost of formatting on an expensive servo-writer machine. IO's priority is to get the drive price down for market penetration and OEM acceptance, but I don't think that they are ignoring cost reduction on the disks. RunngMoose / Dave <<<
I realize that some of what I writing is old news to most of you, but here goes:
Imation is banking on the fact the manufacturing cost for a Zip disk is inherently higher than that of the LS-120 especially when LS-120s next generation diskettes are 600 + MB.
LS-120 disks are made of barium-ferrite. The disks are pressed by a high-pressure stamping machine developed by Insite Peripherals, Inc., called the Path Stamper.
Note: Insite evolved into the Venture Capital backed company called OR Technology, who owns the key patents for LS-120 technology. Iomega first became affiliated with Insite as an R&D partner in January 1988. Incidentally, when Iomega sold its R&D assets in LS-120 to 3M on July 19, 1994, they retained the right to market the LS-120.
The Path Stamper was embossed originally for the 20.8 MB diskettes, which had 900 concentric grooves at 20-micron intervals on both faces of the disk. These grooves are the foundation for the optical servo system.
Optical (LS-120) enables a high track density recording of more than 15,000. Optical has higher intrinsic data-error rates [1 in 100,000], which, mandates extensive error-checking and correcting (ECC) circuitry. This increases cost and lowers streaming read and write performances. By comparison, magnetic recording (Zip) has much lower intrinsic data-error rates [1 to 10 per billion].
Part of the reason Iomega may have designed the Zip diskette 3 inches wide is because, if accidentally inserted into a 3 inch drive slot, and that drive attempts to write to the Zip, the magnetically embedded servo could be destroyed and thus, the disk is permanently destroyed. On the other hand, the optical servo of the LS-120 is indelible.
Embedded (magnetic) servo (i.e., the Zip diskettes) technique relies on defect-free media, which lowers manufacturing yields, which translates into higher manufacturing costs per disk. In contrast, the LS-120 servo works well even in the presence of many magnetic media defects.
The laser head leaves room for a protracted technological migration path. The laser head will enable much tighter data density, giving leeway for greater track-density, which would allow for higher capacity disks to run on the same drive.
The magnetic servo of the Zip is embedded within the data, at the beginning of each header of each of the 64 sectors of each of track. The passing of each header under the magnetic head produces an effect referred to as "servo-bursts." Some engineers argue that performance of servo-burst technology has more limitation than that of optical. Changing temperature and centrifugal force from spin cause disks to expand and contract. This phenomenon causes an anisotropic effect that is, the servo and data tracts of a Zip disk may get out-of-line with each other. Also because the Zip servo is magnetic, users cannot bulk-erase the disk without permanently destroying the servo track, which permanently destroys the disk. Bulk-erasing is popular within the military and institutions where secure-erasing of disks is routine.
Review by Barry W. Phillips: In the optical subsystems, an infrared LED light source serves to reflect the image of the servo tracts through an aspherical collection lens onto a four-element photo-decoder. Optical input signals to the detector are converted to electronic signals for read/write head positioning. Data is written between two adjacent optical servo grooves in an area called "load." The closed-loop servo maintains the magnetic read/write head on the load area. Read and write operates the same as those in conventional floppy disk drives.
See Hambrecht & Quists comments by disk analyst (David Claridge) talking about Insites Floptical (1988). 2+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re: LS120 Drives Date: 96-11-01 10:56:16 EST From: SEGUY
We just installed our first LS120 drive in our office. The main reason we are looking at them is because of the backward compatibility. It is really a very neat package because we have freed up one bay in our test machine. Management said that the new machines will be ordered from Compaq with the drives already installed. It seems that in an office with a ton of 1.4 diskettes that there will always be an occasional need for a way to read either old diskettes or new program fixes without everyone going on line for updates.
The other question is who else may have even a better way of backup and backward compatible solutions in the near future. CDs, PD/CDs, etc with the ability to read/write a low cost are right around the corner which make the decision even harder and it may pay to wait unit first quarter '97 when there will be a whole array of new products in the market.
As far as IO stock price. I think it will start coming under price pressure as these new drives hit the market and selling prices of the Zip start down. I saw at Best Buy that they are giving a free Iomega Zip when you buy any tower computer. Also in another store I saw a Western Digital 1.2 Gig and a Zip for only $299 for the combo. 3+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Blade Alert Price Slashing Date: 96-11-01 11:04:19 EST From: JustBearIt
To re-cap the argument that the LS-120 technology is superior to that of the Zip because (i) the technological migration path is deeper than that of the Zip (next generation laser servo diskettes will hold 600+ MB) and (ii) manufacturing costs for laser servo diskettes are lower than that of Zip.
The bottom line is that the technology used to manufacturer LS-120 diskettes is roughly the same that is used to make CDs. (very low manufacturing costs). 4+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: LS-120 drives / Ingram Micro Date: 96-11-01 11:16:44 EST From: Corinne45
>>>SEGUY you wrote:<<<
>>>We just installed our first LS120 drive in our office. The main reason we are looking at them is because of the backward compatibility. It is really a very neat package because we have freed up one bay in our test machine. Management said that the new machines will be ordered from Compaq with the drives already installed. It seems that in an office with a ton of 1.4 diskettes that there will always be an occasional need for a way to read either old diskettes or new program fixes without everyone going on line for updates.<<<
Interesting. I have a friend in Long Island who just received a set of LS-120s for her office from Ingram Micro last week. She said that they looked just like an internal "a" drive. Theyre installed and, according to her, work great. She said that the drives read her old floppies really fast. She thinks, or was told by Ingram, that the LS-120 reads her old floppies thrice the speed of her standard "a" drive. 5+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: LS-120 Date: 96-11-01 13:10:27 EST From: JHenrie
FWIW,
I am kind of surprised people are talking about the LS-120. The one thing that the LS-120 has going for it is backward compatibility. This advantage is, in my opinion, largely overshadowed by its price and performance. The price of the next standard will have to be much lower, considerably less than the LS-120's current price and most likely in the $40 to $50 range. In addition, the speed has to improve. While it is faster than a normal floppy, it is much slower than the zip and other competiting products. Why do you think the introduction of the LS-120 has been so slow? They have been trying to improve its speed. Apparently, it hasn't been that easy. And, yes, speed is a factor that will only be limited by a consumer's spending capacity. For these reasons, combined with a late market entrance, I just don't see LS-120 as a strong candidate. Kind of like Bob Dole's chances of becoming President. Sorry to get political and yes I am going to vote for B. Dole.
Later,
JPH 6+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Gateway again Date: 96-11-02 00:06:04 EST From: Proton777
Tonight, I accidentally deleted a file critical to my computer's operation so I had to call Gateway tech support. I was on the phone with a tech for close to an hour. While files were taking time to load, I asked about Iomega products. He told me they are selling external parallel Zips and internal SCSI Jaz. He wasn't sure, but he thought they would be on sale either last Monday or this coming Monday (I know it wasn't last Monday). <Grin>He also said Iomega will be coming out with downward-compatible Jaz drives in 500MB and 2GB sizes. Good news! Again, FWIW Tony 7+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:Gateway again Date: 96-11-02 09:53:11 EST From: BigWitts
Tony....that is indeed very good news....if in fact the tech knew and gave you the straight skinny.
Now it seems that downward compatible Jaz drives (to 500 mg) might also require downward pricing (to compete with and outdo the LS-120).....or maybe replacement of the current Jaz entirely.
The offering by Gateway of external Zip and internal Jaz would possibly warrant a helpful news release...which could be tomorrow if your information is correct. The 2-1 gig, 500 mg Jz would certainly warrant news in the future...bigtime..
I am leery without verification, but this is exactly how info occasionally gets out. Hope the tech supplied info was accurate...if so...you certainly scooped a major development. Hopefully we will know by Comdex.
Would like to hear from those whom are more tech oriented as to the implications of the above developments, if they are valid.
Thanks Tony
Tom Buchanan aka BlckMarlin 8+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Gateway Date: 96-11-02 10:17:35 EST From: MRMENSA3
Just got off the phone with Gateway. Seems they are going to be offering Zip and Jaz starting Monday, but my salesperson was pretty tight-lipped about it. She did say "That Zip sounds really cool!" and mentioned the Jaz as well. But when I asked specific price info. she balked and stammered that they were'nt sure until Monday.
I had called Gateway add-on department right before calling sales, and they proceeded to refer me to sales as the add-on dept. was not yet going to offer Zip/Jaz, they are only offered with a new system. She did say add-on expected to be offering the products in the "near Future".
We'll see Monday. Would'nt want to be a Gateway customer service rep. right about now!
FWIW,
Jeff 9+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:Gateway & DVD poll Date: 96-11-02 10:51:01 EST From: BAJ3
I wasn't channel checking when I called Gateway this a.m.; I am buying another computer. In speaking with the rep about extra storage, he offered the Iomega 3.2 tape back-up only. I didn't hassle the guy for answers; of his own volition he said they would probably be offering other Iomega product(s) in the future. "It could be monday...I'm not sure....I have to plead the fifth on that one..." Funny how he worded it....
I am pretty relaxed about owning stock in Iomega. Evolution is a slow process ya know; "..it's end of the (floppy) as we know it....and I feel fine." - REM
Following is what I found in AOL's Gadget Guru review regarding a DVD poll:
We had an overwhelming response to our Digital Video Disk (a.k.a. Digital Versatile Disk). We found from our poll that manufacturers as well as the press have done a good job at educating the public about DVD, 90% of the poll respondents said they know what DVD is.
When DAD starts hitting store shelves, the majority of you plan to wait until prices drop significantly before you buy a system; respondents stated many reasons, but Johnboy's statement summed up the majority of respondents feelings -- "I usually wait a year or two before jumping into the next generation of ANYTHING. I'll let others work out the bugs and pay for the R & D expenses."
We also found that 73% of you would be more likely to buy a DVD if movies were available for rent as opposed to being for sale only. For instance, Ghcam1 says, "The sooner movies are available to rent on DVD, the sooner this format will be a success."
Other notable comments:
devnull: "Why would anyone want to buy a new video system that can't record on day 1, which will be burdened with unfair digital and analog copy protection, and that may not even be up to LaserDisc quality? On top of all that, DVD is for today's TVs, so you'll have to throw it away when HDTVs arrive. This sucker may be useful for computer storage, but that's it."
Orbitalman: "With the variety on satellite, AND not being able to record (tape), who needs it?"
WARNET: "I think DVD will be common in the future mostly because of the massive storage space in a small platter. I read about CD ROM technology twenty years ago but I never would have thought that it would hold storage as huge as DVDs. What impresses me is its ability to show full length motion pictures along with other possibilities such as better sound, high tech graphics, high quality games, etc."
Asandiford: "The biggest factor in my DVD purchase will be how many manufacturers (quality) will be providing the software. No two ways about it."
Hefalump: "With the advent of DSS systems, owning movies seems to have lost some of its luster. Besides, technology is changing so fast. I'd hate to blow a lot of cash on this, after also blowing cash on laserdiscs."
We appreciate everyone's participation in this week's poll. Congratulations to ejm1533@aol.com who wins a cool new After Dark 4.0 T-shirt from Berkeley Systems. Be sure to check in on Tuesday for our new poll, "Mac vs. Windows".
If you have comments about our DVD Poll, click on message boards below and go to the DVD folder. 10++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Rumors and Miscellany Date: 96-11-02 12:49:14 EST From: PKeeler
AParksherb wrote: >>> Still haunting me is whether or not Epson zip rebates have to be accounted for by Iomega. <<<
Epson's name is on the check. Iomega sells the drive to Epson (sans cover) and after that probably has no more to do with it. Epson sells it to retailers at whatever price and with whatever coupons/rebates it wants. The fact that Epson drives are at lower prices sort of proves that Iomega is making decent money at their price points.
BigWitts wrote: >>> Now it seems that downward compatible Jaz drives (to 500 mg) might also require downward pricing (to compete with and outdo the LS-120).....or maybe replacement of the current Jaz entirely. <<<
LS-120 competes with Jaz, like BarbPayne1 (recently revealed 5'1" height) competes with Shaquille O'Neal. :D
More likely the 540MB cartridge will be released for use in 1-2 GB Jaz drives. I would think a 2 GB cartridge would require a new drive. Bad news for EZFlyer, Syjet, and Nomai 540. Along with all the M-O/PD drives in the 230MB - 600MB range.
My thoughts, FWTW, on recent rumors:
"Gateway"
Gateway rumors have never been true. Having said that, Micron announced its OEM relationship with Iomega around Thanksgiving. Retail channel OEMs like Compaq, HP, P-Bell, AST, etc. need Iomega's products in July/August to get them into stores in time for Christmas. Build on the fly mail order companies like Dell, Gateway, Micron do not need them until probably November (people will order Christmas PCs in time to get them at Christmas). Look for Dell and Gateway announcements by the end of November. Its probably too late for AST, Compaq, or other retail OEMs to announce new Zip SKUs. Next window is probably March with the new Spring models.
"Cisco"
What product Iomega and Cisco could co-develop escapes me. No symmetry between switches and consumer PC storage. Maybe Iomega's parallel port connection technology and Cisco modem/terminal adapters.
"Vitamin E"
Who could make up such a weird code name? Viper was easy to make up ;)
'E' could certainly stand for 'Erasable' which would merge with the recent DVD rumors. Vitamins are a supplement, like removable storage. Now I'm getting silly.
The recent DiskTrend estimates for removable storage were obviously very influenced by Iomega. The forecasts for Zip-like and Jaz-like products showed huge growth. The other product that showed huge growth is flash card memory. Iomega's recent partnering with Kodak in the 'Zip Across America' promotion, recent Iomega comments about digital photography, Dvorak's recent PC Magazine comments, could be signs of a joint Kodak or Panasonic and Iomega digital photo product.
IMO, Sony partnered with Iomega on the Ditto 2GB to help in its quest to be the Zip licensee. Wasn't good enough. Here's a question: What did MCI (Panasonic) do to win the Zip licensing award?
With all these great rumors who cares where in the latest trading range IOMG sits. ;-)
PKeeler Patrick Keeler 11++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: genome story Date: 96-11-02 16:13:48 EST From: AJBoese
Here's another use for zip and jaz disks: storing genomes.
A friend who's a molecular biologist recently commented to me that a colleague sent them part of the yeast genome on a zip disk. I was glad to hear that the new storage paradigm has made its way into the world of science. Of course, it makes perfect sense. If anyone has huge amount of data that they need to store it's the scientists.
The same friend told me that they had added a request for a jaz drive to their latest grant application.
FWIW,
Alex 12++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re: Gateway Date: 96-11-02 18:19:10 EST From: EBJKY
Another call completed with yet another Gateway sales rep.....one call this time to desk top sales....better news this time.....my previous post was not consistent with results of conversations that Proton and MrMensa had with GATE reps.....however, this time revealed a more positive tone and better information....still a bit evasive, but... I inquired about possibly purchasing a new Gateway system for Xmas. I emphasized that I was particularly interested in which products consumers could add on to a new purchase, such as storage products....The rep responded by saying....."Well, I'm not supposed to talk about the Iomega Jaz drive yet, but.....we could possibly be having that available soon.".....further conversation......then I asked if since they already offer the Ditto, and will soon be offering the Jaz, will they also be offering the Zip?.....the response was a little less emphatic, but he did say "yes, that too...".....more conversation......he ended the conversation by saying, "You should be hearing more about this within a week."
OK, I felt good about the conversation.....much more in line with the other posts. I remember from previous conversations that the sales staff won't be offering new products(Jaz/Zip) until they have had product training. Gateway does new product training on Thurs/Fri of each week....at least that is what I've been told before...So, I asked the sales rep if they had had product training on the Jaz or Zip yet....the answer was no. So, it looks like the earliest training and offering would be Thursday of next week.....Now, I'm much more skeptical than that....I think we're a little behind the 8-ball here on the GATE/IOMG connection, as far as GATE having any kind of huge impact on IOMG sales for Xmas.....the problem is that GATE computers are custom built and require time to build to customer specs. Problem is that many Gateway consumers may not have IOMG product information in time to order for Xmas season.....hopefully they will fix that problem with lots of product awareness/advertising within the next 2 weeks...otherwise consumers hoping to have a new Gateway computer under the tree for Xmas may have to order before the Jaz or Zip actually becomes available.....I hope that GATE/IOMG haven't missed the Xmas rush this year....
PKeeler, if you've bothered to read this far, no I didn't ask about products other than Iomega, mainly because GATE has been offering the Ditto for a long time.....my reasoning was that if Zip were to be offered, then it would be Iomega since the Ditto was already a product offering....maybe that is lame, but that's how I was looking at the situation....
Hoping to see some press releases from GATE and IOMG real soon.......:)
Ed Johnson 13++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Gateway Date: 96-11-03 19:56:49 EST From: PAUCLAIR
Spoke with Gateway Saturday about new system. Asked about several peripherals, including Zip and Jaz. Was told that while I could not buy these today I could on Monday - internal Jaz and external Zip. Like others who have posted the last day or two, I will have to call Monday for details and prices before I order. No prediction on affect this will have on on stock price but obviously it is an important development for future business with major OEM. Would be interested in discussion why external would be offered, like with IBM, instead of IDE or SCSI Zip (if this turns out to be the case). Is this for customers' or OEMs' benefit? Are there sufficient internals available - I still have not seen internals offered by local computer system shops? 14++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: An Interesting Omission Date: 96-11-03 20:15:39 EST From: HYPEMENOT
On 10/17, MRMENSA3 published on this board a PORTION of a press release issued by OR Technology detailing the alliance they had formed with the Kaifa Group to mass-produce slim-line LS-120 drives. I have reproduced his post , in its entirety, below. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MRMENSA3 Subj: LS-120 Off the wires:
>>>>>>>>>>>> CAMPBELL, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 17, 1996--OR Technology Inc. and Kaifa Group on Thursday announced a strategic alliance between the two companies whereby Kaifa will mass-produce OR Technology's slim-line LS-120 floppy disk drive.
"Production will begin in the second quarter of 1997 with volumes reaching 10,000 units per day within 60 days -- establishing OR Technology as the leading supplier of slim-line LS-120 floppy disk drives." >>>>>>>>>>>SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>
That's a lot of units. Vapor? Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Now, Jeff made it clear with his >>>SNIP>>>, that this was not the entire release. And one would think it reasonable to expect that in cutting out the excess PR filler that press releases always contain, he was only trying to save participants in this forum from wasting time with NON-ESSENTIAL information (although no one ever seems to perform this SERVICE when it comes to IOs releases - which are ALWAYS posted in their entirety). Well, yesterday, I decided to look at the Imation folder to get the detail on their earnings report. Since it contained less than 30 messages (spanning more than a month) I decided to read them all. Part way through, I found the entire press release from which MRMENSA3 had extracted his snippets. Upon reading it I saw that he had FAILED TO INCLUDE a paragraph that any fool would know contained a rather important piece of information for those interested in gauging the threat/appeal of products intended to compete with the Zip. Rather than take my word for it, here is the snippet Jeff left out:
<<< "LS-120 technology has already had a significant impact on the PC industry," said Anthony Soohoo, product manager, protable computer systems marketing at NEC Technologies Inc. "WE ARE ACTIVELY INVESTIGATING ITS APPLICATION IN BOTH NOTEBOOK AND DESKTOP SYSTEMS." >>> (my emphasis)
Since NEC is one of the OEMs for the Zip (along with Packard Bell), this appears to be a very important quote, but I guess MRMENSA3 didnt think so. Either that, or he didnt want to LITTER this board with information that is negative re Iomega (see my post to Holloway3 earlier tonight). IMO there is a very important lesson here. No one on this board should ever assume they will be provided with ALL the pertinent information that other participants are aware of, if it impacts NEGATIVELY on IO!
HYPEMENOT 15++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:An Interesting Omission Date: 96-11-03 20:37:01 EST From: Huibs pht
HYPEMENOT,
..ok, here's what I consider an important omission from the release..
>> LS-120 technology was developed by OR Technology Inc., Compaq Computer Corp., Imation (formerly 3M) and Matsushita-Kotobuki Electronics Ltd. (MKE). <<
..right there, in black/white, 'Compaq Computer Corp'..
..now, I'm not denying the quote from an NEC product manager, "protable"(whatever that is?) computer systems marketing... but again, I've got to wonder which computer manufacturers will be willing to stuff the coffers of a direct competitor..
..TODAY Iomega sold 15,000 Zip drives....and the Zip slimline (15mm) drive should appear BEFORE the still vaporware LS-120 slimline..
..anyway, the Zip portable will be cheaper, faster, and will not put cash in the hands of my competitor..
..I'm not going to deny the threat of competition, it's everywhere...but my bucks are on the Zip...and that's that..
..huibs.. 16++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: In deference to HYPEMENOT: Date: 96-11-03 22:13:07 EST From: MRMENSA3
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subj: An Interesting Omission Date: 96-11-03 20:15:39 EST From: HYPEMENOT
On 10/17, MRMENSA3 published on this board a PORTION of a press release issued by OR Technology detailing the alliance they had formed with the Kaifa Group to mass-produce slim-line LS-120 drives. I have reproduced his post , in its entirety, below. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MRMENSA3 Subj: LS-120 Off the wires:
>>>>>>>>>>>> CAMPBELL, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 17, 1996--OR Technology Inc. and Kaifa Group on Thursday announced a strategic alliance between the two companies whereby Kaifa will mass-produce OR Technology's slim-line LS-120 floppy disk drive.
"Production will begin in the second quarter of 1997 with volumes reaching 10,000 units per day within 60 days -- establishing OR Technology as the leading supplier of slim-line LS-120 floppy disk drives." >>>>>>>>>>>SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>
That's a lot of units. Vapor? Jeff >>>>>>>>>>>>>
As a rule, I usually skip right on past HYPEMENOT posts, pardon me, may I call you HYPEMENOT? However, noticing my name in his initial paragraph, I decided to read on. Seeing as how he was so kind as to honour me as the subject of latest lecture, I thought I'd respond, not so much to him, but to the board in general.
The reason I did not post the entire LS-120 press release was that MF Taps had sent me several TOS violation E-mails for posting such material in its entirety, hence the "SNIP" of that article. I think the topic of posting entire news articles has been addressed in here many times. Regardless of that, I cut to the portion of that particular news release that I was most concerned about, the unit production of 10,000 per day.
Over the next few days, further discussion ensued concerning the LS-120, in fact, HYPEMENOT was involved along with RSchoensta (read the Boneyards #137) and I think I aired my concerns fairly concisely regarding the LS-120 consortium and their business plan. I also responded directly to HYPEMENOT on the excellence of a post he had made. It appears he does not recall that post or my thoughts on the subject.
So you see HYPEMENOT, there was no intentional cover-up or omission of material, no LS-120gate conspiracy on my part. I posted the article in the hope that an intelligent conversation would occur, which thankfully it did. In fact, if I was intent on smearing the facts or attempting to manipulate this information, why would I have bothered to post ANY of that article AT ALL?! Obviously by snipping the article, I left it to the discretion of the reader to pull it up in its entirety.
I appreciate your concern for the readers of this board, and look forward to your continued scrutiny of my contributions. Personally, if it were me, I could think of better things to do, but hey....it's your dime.
And here I thought this was going to be another dull Sunday night on the board!
Jeff 17++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:An Interesting Omission Date: 96-11-03 22:16:01 EST From: Sunraydoc
>>> here is the snippet Jeff left out:
<<< "LS-120 technology has already had a significant impact on the PC industry," said Anthony Soohoo, product manager, protable computer systems marketing at NEC Technologies Inc. "WE ARE ACTIVELY INVESTIGATING ITS APPLICATION IN BOTH NOTEBOOK AND DESKTOP SYSTEMS." >>> (my emphasis)
Since NEC is one of the OEMs for the Zip (along with Packard Bell), this appears to be a very important quote, but I guess MRMENSA3 didnt think so. Either that, or he didnt want to LITTER this board with information that is negative re Iomega (see my post to Holloway3 <<<
Maybe so, but since many of us have seen NEC desktops with internal Zip installed occupying store shelves, I'm not too worried. After all, even an ounce of implementation beats any amount of investigation you care to specify....Until you can start edifying us about the number of LS-120s installed by OEM's, I don't think we need be too worried about this new kid on the block.
Incidentally, I think the LS120's backward compatibility is overblown as a competitive advantage. Having the two units in one, as in the LS 120, makes it impossible to transfer files smoothly from floppies to the 120 meg disk, as one can between Zip and a separate built-in floppy drive.
There may be some advantage to a little floppy/big floppy combo in the space-cramped environment of a laptop, however, which is probably why such a big deal is being made of the slimline version of this drive by its creators. Mind you, though, I'd be surprised if Iomega doesn't have some strategy in mind to deal with this potential opportunity for a competitor. It'll be interesting to see whether anything along these lines is unveiled at Comdex, and also to see if a working prototype of the LS-120 slimline is yet in existence.
Sunraydoc 18++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:An Interesting Omission Date: 96-11-03 23:23:43 EST From: HYPEMENOT
Subj: Compaq & the LS-120
Huibs pht wrote a post to me earlier tonight, referring to the fact that in the recent OR Technology release about their alliance with the Kaifa Group, they cite the fact that LS-120 technology was developed by OR, Compaq, Imation and MKE.
He then continues on to raise the question that since Compaq was involved:
<<< ... Ive got to wonder which computer manufacturers will be willing to stuff the coffers of a direct competitor. >>>
Well Huibs, first there is the question of whether and of what magnitude Compaq derives a direct monetary benefit from the sale of LS-120s? But lets put that question aside for now. If this business really works as you describe, then maybe you can explain to me why Hewlett Packard buys Zip drives from Iomega, when Iomega has been, and remains today, HPs arch and principal COMPETITOR in the tape drive business! If that doesnt qualify as STUFFING THE COFFERS of a direct competitor, than I dont know what would.
Apart from this, it strikes me that you never responded to the real point of my message, which is that a very important piece of information that is potentially negative for IO, was left out of MRMENSA3s post. Does anyone doubt that if a quote existed somewhere that NEC had looked carefully at the LS-120 and rejected it for inclusion in its line, such a statement would have been reproduced on this board repeatedly and without delay.
HYPEMENOT
P.S. Bbu84 -- The three months I referred to have gone by, and just in case you missed it the LS-120 is now available from Ingram Micro ( the last time I looked they were the largest distributor in the business) Incidentally, in the last few days, there were a couple of posts on this board from people who had just gotten in these drives and seemed to think they worked very well. Then of course, there is the Kaifa announcement re manufacturing the notebook version of the LS-120 in large quantity beginning in the 2nd qtr of 1997. That is an especially interesting development inasmuch as one of the computer experts on this board maintained, at least until recently, that it wasnt technically feasible to manufacture this drive in a version slim enough to fit in a notebook. Add to that the comment from NEC that they are actively investigating this drive for application in BOTH notebook and desktop systems, and Id say the prospects of the LS-120 have developed noticeably in the last three months.
HYPEMENOT 19++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:An Interesting Omission Date: 96-11-04 00:33:55 EST From: MF Jeanie
<<< "LS-120 technology has already had a significant impact on the PC industry," said Anthony Soohoo, product manager, protable computer systems marketing at NEC Technologies Inc. "WE ARE ACTIVELY INVESTIGATING ITS APPLICATION IN BOTH NOTEBOOK AND DESKTOP SYSTEMS." >>> (my emphasis)>>
Hypemenot. . . an important omission, indeed. . . *IF* Mensa's post had been the only one regarding this press release. In fact, it was not. The pertinent paragraph regarding NEC investigating LS-120's application was posted and commented upon several times, according to my recollection.
The reason I recall it so well is that I was concerned because I know NEC is an OEM for Zip and I had assumed theirs was an exclusive agreement. It still puzzles me. Was NEC's remark a political nicety for reasons we don't understand? Or should there have been more probing by inquiring minds on this cryptic comment? I don't think there was an attempt to hide "adverse" news, but I do think maybe we dropped the ball in not following up.
...and to Huibs: <<I for one, am the only long WORRIED about Comdex because of the threat of competition..>>
No, Huibs. You are not the only long that has worried about this. Iomega will probably dominate Comdex, but we can expect new competitive product announcements as well -- and I am very concerned about the media coverage these new products will receive -- whether deserving or not -- it often doesn't matter to the press.
Because the fact is that Iomega is perceived as the Goliath of storage already and there is keen interest by the media in any Davids who may come along to take pot shots at them.
Comdex will likely be interesting and positive -- but it isn't going to be the rocket booster I fear some are looking for. My opinion only. . . but this story still has many chapters to go.
Jeanie 20++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:An Interesting Omission Date: 96-11-04 01:14:16 EST From: Waverunner
>>Add to that the comment from NEC that they are actively investigating this drive for application in BOTH notebook and desktop systems, and Id say the prospects of the LS-120 have developed noticeably in the last three months. <<
I like the fact that I can buy either an NEC business or home computer with a Zip drive NOW, and Neikei(sp) reported that NEC laptops with built in Zips will be available in 1997. The laptop news isn't verified, but NEC made a very strong initial move to Zips. And to beat a DEAD HORSE for the millionth time, LS 120 technology was co-developed by Iomega and abandoned for a superior product based on technical and market research. So far what's the score? 3-3.25 million Zips to under 100K LS-120 to ZERO Swan? I never expected nor even hoped for 100% market share. Just a sound majority will give Iomega's Zip standard status before any other product will gain enough market share to be considered competition. I really do get concerned about the status of the competition. OR, MKE, Imation, and Compaq against Iomega, HWP, IBM, NEC, Packard Bell, Epson, Cannon, Micron, Intel, Texas Instruments, Motorola, Adaptec, Roland, Fuji, Sony, Maxell, TDK, Memorex, Unisys, and who am I forgetting...oh, Seagate and Matsushita. :-)..
Dave
End Report. Posts covered through 3 a.m. 11/4/96. _______________________________
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