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Tuesday, November 26, 1996 Iomega was up $1/2 Friday, closing at $22 1/2 (+2.27%). TODAY'S RECAP:First Larry Fortensky and Liz Taylor split, and now this. Alas, the proposed merger between Iomega rivals SyQuest and Nomai is off in an apparent miscue between the two storage companies. SyQuest claimed in a Monday press release that Nomai has reneged on the terms of acquisition reached just eight days ago. The course of true love never did run swift. In other news, Texas Instruments has announced that it will offer an Avatar HARDisk removable in its TravelMate(TM) 6000 Series notebook computers. This drive will sell for $499, and the 210MB removable disks will sell for $40 each. Commentary follows in our conversation below. America Online users may read the complete news releases on these stories at Keyword: Market News. INDEX: Use the Search or Find feature of your word processor to locate the article number (Find: 1++, 3++, etc.) -- or use AOL's Edit>>Find in Top Window Feature. If Find in Top Window is dimmed, just click on some text, anything, in the IOM Today window and try again.
1++HENRY73 comments on the growing pervasiveness of Zip drives. And now, the Best of the Board...Started 3 am ET 11/25/96.
1++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:Am I the only one??? Date: 96-11-25 03:33:57 EST From: HENRY73
uh. . . I just finished doing my web page for my business, and the guy who did it specifically asked for all of the artwork and text on a zip disk. He automatically assumed I had a zip drive. I don't think this is going to become a standard. . .
even at my school, some professors are REQUIRING students to have zip drives. But this must be an isolated incident. . .
my girlfriend's data processing company is recommending to ALL clients to submit all work on zip disks, instead of twenty floppies. But this too must be isolated. . .
went to a tool rental place(that's right the most technologically advanced place on earth) to rent a trailer and hey guess what? You got it! Had a hooked up to their computer. . . probably someone broke in and hooked it up for them (hey not a bad idea)
Colin scratchin my head at all of these flukes. . .. 2++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:Need backward compatiblit Date: 96-11-25 09:37:41 EST From: JeffTF1
Nazdek says:
<<<<From: Nazdek
While this subject has been beat to death around here, I believe that it is the primary reason for the stalled stock price. I have seen several recent mentions in the popular press of the coming Swan drive and I think "the wait and see" approach is prevailing on the street. Remember, the market looks ahead. >>>>
As you say, the subject has been beat to death around here...but apparently not enough. First of all, isn't it faster to copy your floppies to Zip with TWO drives? (rather than repeatedly switching two disks in the same drive..) Also, once you've copied your floppies what do you need them for? I've put 90% of my floppies (around 300) on Zip...If I ever need the other 10% it's still there, I just might have to go to a friend's house who still has that old computer with a 3 1/2" drive. ;)
So the question remains...why do you need backward compatibility? Computers still have 3 1/2 drives, for now, and it'll probably be 1998 before any desktop computer comes without a floppy drive...that's plenty of time to transfer your stuff.
Incidentally, I bought an HP pavilion with built in Zip in August, just found out this weekend that the floppy drive doesn't work. Yesterday was the first time I USED it! Really. I bought a new scanner (which I don't wish on anyone...installation's not fun) and the driver didn't come on CD.
Jeff Starin 3++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: TI release Date: 96-11-25 12:01:23 EST From: Tester tjc
I see that the media is "glass-Media cartridge" no Zip like in any way except large capacity. This release is TI, Avatar is a new one to me, anyone have a clue to the company? I am doing some research, no showing on the exchange except an Avatar holdings, seemingly non related real estate holding co.
Cost seems high. Reported to me by agency that gave the release that the drive is available now. No vaporware here. Will report what I find. Tom 4++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:TI Notebook News #1 Date: 96-11-25 12:02:01 EST From: MF DTurkey
<<<The livegear HARDisk drive from Avatar Systems Corporation features a high-speed transfer rate of 2.1MB/sec. and an access time of less than 12 msec. The high-capacity diskette drive uses rugged glass-media cartridges, which are smaller than a floppy disk and slightly thicker.>>>
Potential conversation at the R&D labs of Texas Instruments:
CEO: "OK boys, here's what I want; I want a removable disk drive for our notebook computers."
Lab Dude: "No problem boss"
CEO: "But the media you come up with, I want to be even more fragile than that crap SyQuest puts out"
Lab Dude: "Can do boss!"
Any of our technical oriented folks out there ever hear of glass-media cartridges? Is it just me, or is making removable disks out of glass media the dumbest thing ever done?
Dan MF Puzzled 5++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:TI Notebook News #1 Date: 96-11-25 12:48:48 EST From: MF DrJimbo
Ranek-
This is the Avatar product which was announced about a year ago. Avatar is not a public company. If you want to see our discussion, check out the first Storage Technology folder in Industry Research.
It is a tiny removable cartridge drive, built to be bullet proof, but as a result, I think, too expensive. Its a specific notebook solution, so it misses the market for Jaz and Zip drives. APS offered these for Powerbooks for almost a year. They're no longer offered. I don't think this is a competitor to Notebook Zip. Actually I think the JTS/WDC product which is a removable drive is more compelling for Notebook owners. 6++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:TI Notebook News #1 Date: 96-11-25 13:24:32 EST From: PaulL73
The negative: It's competition for Zip, clearly, but would seem very limited. Twice capacity at 3 times the price. (and if there's a 200meg Zip in our future, the TI drive would turn into a miniature, overpriced Jaz). The positive: Yet another company and device advancing the idea that high-capacity removable storage is becoming a necessity. 7++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: and... Date: 96-11-25 13:32:38 EST From: PaulL73
And, FWIW, I think it's also worth noting the specific language of the announcement. all-cap words are my emphasis
<<Continuing to expand and enhance mobility options for THEIR CUSTOMERS, Texas Instruments today announced the availability of a removable diskette drive that will enable USERS OF TRAVELMATE(TM) 6000 Series notebooks to store up to 210MB of data on a media cartridge. >>
There's no implication it will work with anything else at this point. If I were a well-heeled Travelmate owner, I'd probably get one, but that would seem to be a pretty limited field. So, I think it's less competitive than in the my previous post. 8++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:Swan & Io in the News Date: 96-11-25 15:12:23 EST From: Rum Doodle
huibs:
<<..hey, I'm surprised there was no talk generated by this post..>>
Since it was my post, I'll keep the talk alive. :-)
I think the implications are that Swan is S.O.L. IF the article is accurate, there will be no Swan drive til Q3 97 or possibly later. Swan may also be conceding the PC market to Iomega.
<<The article also says that Swan has decided to forgo the high-volume PC floppy market "for the untapped - and largely nonexistent - consumer space." "We're well aware of the PC drive market," said Eden C. Kim, president and chief executive of Swan, Santa Clara, Calif. "But there's a whole market of consumer appliances - Web TVs, smart phones, GPS systems - that demand a mass-storage solution like our 3160 UHC drive.">>
Looks like Swan may be stepping right into an n.hand trap. :-)
Question is, how accurate is the article?
Rum 9++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:4 millionth sold NOT! Date: 96-11-25 16:22:20 EST From: PKeeler
From: IOM man >>> You mean to tell me that after all this work, driving through all at LA traffic, no never bothered to ask if the models with Zips were selling? I find this hard to believe. Skichang I have read your posts in the past, I know your not stupid. Why don't you post what you REALLY found out? <<<
I never want to bother the employees at any store. They are working hard and probably on commission and I'm not buying anything. If I come across one that seems to not know something and I can add to his knowledge I will. For instance, many salespeople don't know the differences between the Epson and Iomega Zip drives (color, power supply).
Do any CPU's fly off the shelves at these stores? Do they sell on price mostly? I would expect lower priced computers to sell more than higher priced computers, especially this time of year, no matter what features the more expensive computers have. Where I can get a good handle on inventory I try to gauge the sales of HP 7275Z computers with HP 7285 computers. They are similar in price with the 7275Z having a Zip and 166 Intel processor and the 7285 having a 200 Intel processor. At the 3 Computer Citys in Middle and Northeast New Jersey the 7275Z is stocked at 4X the level of the 7285 and outsells it but not by a lot as far as I can tell.
If your trying to gauge OEM acceptance of the IDE Insider I would do it this way. HP saw initial reaction to the 7110Z and put a Zip in its Winter line up. further, most Zips are in high end SKU's that should be on the shelf for a long time. The Packard-Bell 200 MHz processor model shouldn't be obsolete until Christmas 1997. That is a major commitment to the IDE Insider, IMO. A counter example was the HP 7110Z where HP put the Zip in a computer sold only at electronic stores with a soon to be discontinued Intel processor (120 Mhz). If the 7110Z was a bust HP wouldn't have lost much since the SKU was scheduled to terminate in the Summer anyway. HP's follow up with a new 7275Z SKU shows that HP thinks the Zip adds value.
Gateway has opened up the question of whether IDE Insider production capacity is limited or just not wanted. I have thought the latter and some new fundamental info has surfaced lately. That info is all the recent announcements of some small time OEMs including SCSI Insiders in SKUs. With the SCSI Insider costing more and harder to install, you would think OEMs that wanted to include Zips would get the IDE Insider. If Iomega had excess production capacity they would certainly sell the USA Flex's or Kingston's the IDE drive. This logic seems to suggest one of the following:
1. IDE Insider demand is above or too close to supply. 2. That Iomega does not want or can't sell IDE Insiders through an agreement with MCI. 3. Production capacity is being maxed by IDE Insider drive mechanisms being shipped to MCI 4. All the above. :)
PKeeler Patrick Keeler
P.S. What's up with MCI? Did they have a presence at Comdex? BTW, did Epson exhibit their Zip drive at Comdex? 10++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Pure Speculation IOM Date: 96-11-25 22:51:57 EST From: Kvj1
Robra wrote in one of his fine posts:
<<I mentioned to George that I had heard rumors that Iomega might announce the 200MB Zip at Comdex. George looked at me without saying anything. I came right out and asked him if this was going to happen. George just kept right on looking at me (as if to say, you should know better than to ask stuff like that)>>
The series of pre-COMDEX-wish-lists posted here and the general gloomy mood during COMDEX triggered the following thoughts. What would I do if I were KE?
Let's assume IOM has the technology for the New Zip tested. Twice as fast and 200 MByte capacity. And it is backward compatible with the 100 MByte disks (if it's not I short my first stock!).
If this were announced at COMDEX it's impact would have been diluted by n-hand and, worse in my opinion, it would hurt the 4Q sales because many (myself for one) would wait for the new drive rather than have to upgrade in a year.
When will it be announced? If it exists (and I think it does) my guess is that it will be announced at the earlier of the following two events:
- When the "real competition" eventually comes to market; imagine the LS and/or Swan finally arriving only to meet a new product that blows them out the water on price AND performance. - The production prices are reduced so the the Zip 100 can be sold at $99. The Zip 200 will be introduced at a premium until the Zip 100 inventories are depleted and all production facilities have converted.
While I'm speculating I think the announcement that the n-hand capacity will be increased to 40 MBytes will come around the same time (since the technology to double the density will be transferred from the Zip 200). The need for this higher capacity for n-hand is in digital cameras. Someone posted that 20 MBytes was only enough for a few photos.
When will the Zip become the new standard??? When the market NEEDs a new standard. Trite I know, but it's the Apps that drive the standards, not the technology.
Just in case you didn't see the subject; This post is PURE SPECULATION on my part.
Regards Kenny James 11++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:OEM's and Zip - not sold Date: 96-11-25 23:05:41 EST From: Waverunner
>>I have received 3 or 4 mail order catalogs that sell computers and none of them seem to advertise more than one model that have the Iomega Inside.
I thought the zip was supposed to be a big selling feature.
What happens if the zip computers don't sell well this Christmas? From the posts I have read nobody has offered evidence that the computers w/zips are selling well.
Thanks <<
First there was HP 7110Z. They sold at Circuit City . Then Packard Bell quickly added a model at Circuit City. Then NEC and IBM added models at Circuit City. Then Circuit City started to advertise the Zip models. Then PB came out with two well positioned models with internal Zip. Then NEC added Zips to business models. They also made their non-Zip models Iomega ready. Then Zenith,Canon, Gateway offered Zip,etc, etc, etc.... Then IBM, after selling model with external Zip, they came out with internal model and advertised the fact on national TV. Now there are only two major computer manufacturers that don't offer Zip (Dell has carried Iomega products in their catalog for a long time) Apple and Compaq. CG, and Mr. McConathy have said Apple will carry. An Apple rep told me that last June. So I consider that a done deal. That leaves Compaq. Maybe MF Equity can tell us if his friends at Compaq still use Zips down in Houston? We should have a pool for when Compaq announces. Now Zip SKU's are showing up at other retailers. I imagine the OEM's decided that since the models sold so poorly at Circuit City it would be a good idea to waste shelf space at other outlets with low demand products.
Anyhow, I still agree with BLBREW about one thing. Production. Iomega walked a tightrope in the Zip ramp. Without production, no OEM's. Without OEM's, no need for production. The Dream team and Mitsushitsa indicate demand. Another huge manufacturer would fuel my imagination.
Dave
PS huibs...MSFT & IOM???? time to load up on more MSFT???? ;-)...... 12++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:Pure Speculation IOM Date: 96-11-25 23:20:16 EST From: JohnKess
<<I mentioned to George that I had heard rumors that Iomega might announce the 200MB Zip at Comdex. George looked at me without saying anything. I came right out and asked him if this was going to happen. George just kept right on looking at me (as if to say, you should know better than to ask stuff like that)>>
Didn't he also say that IOM was trying to make Zip the standard? That would be the 100 meg Zip.
>>Let's assume IOM has the technology for the New Zip tested. Twice as fast and 200 MByte capacity. And it is backward compatible with the 100 MByte disks (if it's not I short my first stock!).
If this were announced at COMDEX it's impact would have been diluted by n-hand and, worse in my opinion, it would hurt the 4Q sales because many (myself for one) would wait for the new drive rather than have to upgrade in a year.<<
You bet it would hurt 4th quarter sales. The Zip 100 would be obsolete. I still can't think of one good reason to release a higher capacity Zip anytime soon. Make the current Zip cheaper and faster. [sidebar: meanwhile work on something greater than 200 meg so when a bigger capacity Zip is introduced -- after the standard is nailed down or clearly ain't gonna happen -- then leapfrog the competition and the 100 meg Zip itself.]
IMO the broad consumer market is still digesting the 100 meg capacity. It's a lot of storage and many don't yet require it. Although more and more need it as computing habits change and storage needs grow. Power users may need jaz drives, but the average consumer still hasn't caught up with the Zip capacity. Keep in mind, it advances removable storage by 70 times for most users. That's still the case even though Zips been out a year and a half.
Would the standard 3.5 inch drive be the standard it became if computer makers had upgraded it's capacity every 18 months? 13++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:Pure Speculation IOM Date: 96-11-25 23:41:03 EST From: Huibs pht
<< Let's assume IOM has the technology for the New Zip tested. Twice as fast and 200 MByte capacity. And it is backward compatible with the 100 MByte disks (if it's not I short my first stock!). >>
..hang on folks...the 200Mb Zip will likely be about 30% faster then the 100Mb Zip...and will likely READ the 100Mb discs, not write to them..
..pretty good comment from the CEO of Swan;
The article also says that Swan has decided to forgo the high-volume PC floppy market "for the untapped - and largely nonexistent - consumer space." "We're well aware of the PC drive market," said Eden C. Kim, president and chief executive of Swan, Santa Clara, Calif. "But there's a whole market of consumer appliances - Web TVs, smart phones, GPS systems - that demand a mass-storage solution like our 3160 UHC drive."
..and the Swan will be ready, JUST *after* n.hand debuts..
:) huibs.. 14++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Subj: Re:Pure Speculation IOM Date: 96-11-25 23:58:41 EST From: MF ETurkey
<<<.and the Swan will be ready, JUST *after* n.hand debuts..>>>
I'm willing to bet Swan makes it to market with something before n-hand gets out there. But I think that for some of the applications, like GPS, cameras and telephones, size will be a critical factor (but for Web TV it would compete with Zip, not n-hand). Since the Swan must be at least as big as a floppy + drive, it will have difficulty competing with n-hand if iomega can get it to market.
Of course, the vaunted "backward compatibility" issue is completely moot with those products.
Eric
End Report. Posts covered through 3 am ET 11/26/96. _______________________________
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