Fool.com
The World's Greatest Investing Community
|
|
<COMMUNITY>
This Special Section focuses on Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL) technology. Is this the way that we will be connecting to the onlin services of the future or is it ISDN all over again? In a rip-roaring, free-for-all chat, ADSL guru Rupert Baines will lead us through the bigtime bandwidth maze. We bring together the best of the Motley Fool and AOL's Personal Finance area to deliver this collection to you. Glossary
FW = FoolWire (a Fool News product) Enjoy,
Keith Pelczarski (MF Czar), a
Fool
ALEXANDRIA, Va., /FOOLWIRE/ -- The world of high speed data communications is a baffling array of technologies. Connecting corporate networks and enabling remote access for home workers is a burgeoning industry where technology changes daily and fortunes are made overnight. ISDN, ATM, FRAD, T1... it's an alphabet soup of possibilities. Recently, a breakout technology known as Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line, or ADSL, has captured the spotlight. Originally conceived as an alternative to fiber-optic cable, ADSL is capable of transmitting data at a very respectable 6 Mbps ( millions of bits per second ) over regular telephone cable. This means the possibility of full motion video directly to your desktop at a reasonable price is a reality. No other technology has this combination of price and performance. For example: ISDN with its maximum speed of 128 kilobits per second (Kbps = 1000 bits per second) and frame relay at anywhere from 32 Kbps to 1.5 Mbps are older technologies with the right price but without the performance possibilities of ADSL. Both are selling briskly for high speed Internet access and wide area network connectivity. We must also consider the future of cable modems: still in the testing stage, but looking more promising with access at anywhere between 2 to 30 Mbps under ideal conditions. Their drawback is the cost of the extensive cable and switching equipment required to connect to the enduser. ATM is a very fast (up to 155 Mbps) newer protocol that shows amazing promise but also requires very expensive equipment in order to implement it. Still, however bright the future seems for ADSL, data communications is an industry where proven performance and reliability are paramount. Consequently ADSL is facing what all new technologies face before they are widely accepted; the shakedown/shakeout phase. Though the future looks bright, there are challenges:
1) Standardizing the specifications for interoperability between various
systems. On both counts ADSL could be considered very, very close. Trials have been completed throughout the world using equipment from a few different manufacturers including Amati, Analog Devices Inc., Aware, Pairgain, Westell and more. The results have been promising. Large and small corporations are combining forces to create new products. Motorola licensed a patented form of ADSL from Amati. Analog Devices Inc. is manufacturing ADSL modems for a small company named Aware. Each of these stocks has enjoyed spectacular gains in the last year, and impressive runs in the last few months alone. Perhaps the world is catching on to ADSL. * A Fool Take represents the opinion of one Fool and in no way should be taken as the opinion of either the Motley Fool, Inc., the company in question or representative of anyone or anything else other than that specific Fool's thoughts.
Rupert Baines is Marketing Manager of Broadband Telecommunications for Analog Devices (NYSE: ADI). Mr. Baines's work is primarily focused on the development of ADSL technologies, however he is also involved (to a lesser degree) with other emerging technologies such as cable modems. Rupert Baines earned his MSEE in Hull, England. He also received an MBA from IESE in Spain. Mr. Baines is a frequent and well known member of the xDSL internet list serve, an advanced technical discussion group investigating the intricacies of ADSL specifications. In addition to his advanced technical knowledge of ADSL, his xDSL postings indicate that he is perhaps a true Fool at heart... lots of wit and humor! What is Analog Devices' role in ADSL? Analog Devices (NYSE: ADI) is a leading manufacturer of high performance integrated circuits used in analog and digital signal processing. Analog Devices' products include next generation computing products which service industries such as the transportation and communications sectors. According to ADI company literature, Analog Devices and partner Aware, Inc. have created the first chipset that conforms to the new Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL) standard (ANSI T1.413 category 1). ADSL modems will give phone companies the ability to deliver customers the required bandwidth for the viewing of multimedia applications at the desktop. Live, full screen video viewing requires approximately 3Mbps and ADSL bandwidth can deliver upwards of 6Mbps.
Leeza Rodriguez This information was listed at the ADSL Forum web site. ADSL Vendors March 1996 The following schedule lists current or prospective vendors of ADSL modems or ADSL modem technology. Alcatel Bell
Paul Spruyt Amati Communications
Joe Grady Analog Devices
Rupert Baines AT&T Paradyne
Dawn Diflumeri-Kelly Aware Inc
John Langevin ECI Telecom
Uri Kashti
Danny Etz-Hadar Ericsson Schrack AG
Franz Starnberger Harris Semiconductor
Craig Edwards LGIC (Goldstar)
Kab-Bong Nho Motorola Semiconductor
Debbie Sallee NEC Australia
Patrick Sim Orckit Communications
Mark Handzel
Dan Arazi PairGain Technologies
Carl Liebold Performance Telecom
Jim Gulley Westell Inc.
Bill Rodey
Q: What is ADSL? A: Digital Subscriber Line (DSL) describes a method of sending data over regular telephone cable at speeds previously unattainable. One form of DSL, known as Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL) is proving itself to be one of the most workable solutions for the delivery of multimedia applications to the desktop. With ADSL, downstream bandwidth (from the source) is greater than the upstream bandwidth (return to the source). ADSL modems are capable of delivering a downstream bandwidth of 6Mbps or higher, or approximately 200 times faster than the best analog modem. The best upstream ADSL bandwidth is in the range of 600kbps, or approximately 20 times faster than a 28.8kbps modem. Q: What are the advantages of ADSL? A: The ADSL downstream data transmission rate of 6Mbps can provide for the viewing of full screen, full motion, live video. According to a study by Pacific Telesis, 3Mbps of bandwidth is a reliable benchmark for the satisfactory viewing of full motion live video. Thus, ADSL can provide the bandwidth necessary to deliver live action videos to your computer desktop. Other advantages are high performance Internet access and Wide Area Network connectivity without the need for special wiring and muxing services from the phone companies. Amazingly enough, by reserving a 4kHz region of the copper phone wire for POTS (plain old telephone service) ADSL allows the transmission of multimedia files without even interrupting your regular phone service. Q: What is the ADSL hardware comprised of? A: ADSL modems, known as Terminal Units, need to communicate with one another. Therefore, one must be located at the Telco Central Office (ATU-C) and another at the user's home or business (ATU-R). However, this is a simpler solution than many competing technologies which also require special wiring or an intermediate device such as a mux or CSU/DSU to interface with the Telco equipment. Q: What are CAP and DMT? A: CAP and DMT are two different data carrier signalling methods used in ADSL. CAP, or Carrierless Amplitude modulation/Phase modulation, was the first of the methods to emerge. It modulates the amplitude and phase of a single fixed data rate carrier signal while filtering out the low and high frequencies. DMT uses frequency division multiplexing techniques to divide the signal into many smaller subcarriers, and then recombines the subbands at the destination. Sophisticated echo cancellation techniques make this multiplexing over the small copper cable possible. DMT was chosen as the ADSL standard by ANSI in 1993. Since DMT can run in 32-bit increments, some analysts say DMT is better suited than CAP for mapping into byte-based ATM cells. As ATM technology moves forward, perhaps this is not a point to be overlooked. Q: What companies are involved in ADSL? A: Companies involved in developing ADSL include Amati (AMTX), Analog Devices Inc. (ADI), Motorola (MOT), Pairgain (PAIR), and Westell (WSTL). Even modem makers, such as Zoom Telephonics, (ZOOM) ,state that ADSL is part of their long term strategy. Q: What are the ADSL trials? A: ADSL modems have been successfully tested by as many as 30 telephone companies worldwide. ADSL trials have been conducted in North America, Europe, Australia, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, and Singapore. Bell Atlantic began its ADSL North American market trial in Fairfax County, VA in 1995. The results of the trial were promising enough to warrant Bell Atlantic to commit nearly $7 million dollars to AT&T Paradyne for further development. GTE is currently performing ADSL trials in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. ADSL modems for the GTE trial are being provided for by Westell Technologies (WSTL), Amati (AMTX) and Aware, Inc. In March 96, US West announced ADSL trials using Westell and Pairgain equipment. The status of other ongoing xDSL trials around the world can be found at: http://www.telechoice.com/xdslnewz/ Q: What technologies will ADSL compete with? A: ADSL bandwidth is approximately 200 times faster than the best analog modem and 40 times faster than ISDN BRI. It is easy to say that ADSL will take market share from both of these camps. However, Bell Atlantic states they do not expect ADSL to completely replace ISDN. Rather, they view ISDN and ADSL as two technologies serving different customers for different applications. This is a good point as some customers may not require full screen live video viewing and may remain content with ISDN bandwidth. ISDN is actually better suited for teleconferencing where video quality is less important than equal bandwidth in both directions. In addition, ISDN is a broadband switching technology which means that ISDN can go anywhere where ADSL is still a point to point connection. ADSL is also expected to compete with cable modems, a technology capable of delivering downstream bandwidth up to 30Mbps under ideal laboratory conditions. However, the cable modem industry faces many difficult challenges such as the prohibitive cost of wiring their customers for two way communication and the necessary addition of extensive switching equipment.
Leeza Rodriguez, MF
MOM
FOOL TAKE---ONE FOOL'S OPINION*
The AMTX patent situation ALEXANDRIA, Va., /FOOLWIRE/ --- I am no expert on ADSL technology or patent law, but here is what I know about the Amati patent situation. Everything here is hard fact; at the end I may add my speculation, but I will clearly identify this as such. From page 55 of the Icot/Amati merger Prospectus/Proxy Statement (same text probably can be found in the S-4 filed with the SEC for the merger), dated 10/16/95: "From 1992 through May, 1994, Northern Telecom supported Amati through two research and development agreements. ... the resulting product, Prelude, demonstrated the capabilities of DMT and was awarded the (ANSI) standard. During this time, Northern Telecom controlled sales and marketing, and Amati sold over $3M of Preludes to Northern Telecom for resale to telephone companies in 15 countries worldwide. In 1995, as part of a settlement, Northern Telecom was issued 75000 shares of Amati's Series A Preferred Stock and Amati received control of all intellectual property generated during the project, subject to a non-exclusive, royalty free license to Northern Telecom. Four patent applications co-owned by Northern Telecom and Amati have been filed as a result of the project." From page 58 of the same document: "Amati classifies its patents as follows: - Group 1 - Consists of 3 patent applications and 1 patent co-owned with Northern Telecom that are necessary for conformance to the ANSI standard for ADSL. Amati has informally agreed with the ANSI standards body to license these patents to third parties on fair and equitable terms - Group 2 - Consists of two patents issued to Stanford University in 1993 and 1994 and 1 patent application filed by Stanford University, all of which have been exclusively licensed to Amati, and one patent application filed by Amati in 1995. These patents are not necessary for conformance to the ANSI standard for ADSL; however, they make ADSL transceivers more efficient. - Group 3 - Consists of 1 patent owned by Amati and 5 patent applications filed by Amati, all of which are more general to Amati's DMT technology." On 1/24/96 Pete Chow, an Amati engineer, posted the following on the internet: "if the ADI/Aware chipset is really ANSI standard compliant, then I suspect they will talk to us soon if they have not already done so. Why? Because there are several patents owned by Amati/Stanford University that are clearly necessary for standard compliance, IMHO. How do I konw(sic)? Well, I'm the co-author of two of them, and I also have a pretty good knowledge of the ANSI T1.413 standard." In a letter to MF MUSE around 3/8/96, Mr. Ronald Carlini, V.P., Business development at Amati, wrote in response to a question 'are companies infringing on your patents?': "We know of no company that is infringing on any of our patents. We are discussing licensing agreements with several companies." The Internet posting peaked my interest relative to ADI's claim of ANSI standard compliance, so on 3/13/96 I e-mailed Rupert Baines ADI with the following: "... My research has indicated that Amati/Stanford hold patents essential to being compliant with the ANSI standard for DMT technology. Since ADI's chipset is compliant with the ANSI standard, is there a risk that the Amati/Stanford patents are being infringed and, if so, can you tell me what action ADI is taking to insure their lead in ADSL DMT technology is maintained?" Mr. Baines responded the same day: "... At present, we have not signed a license with Amati. We are investigating their patent position & have no intent of ignoring any patents that are indeed required: if that is the case, the(n) under ANSI rules Amati are required to license at a 'reasonable & non-discriminatory' rate - so all ADSL suppliers would be paying a similar sum, on a level playing field." In Monday's joint press release with Motorola, Amati reiterated: "Amati owns the patents on the standards for implementation of ADSL/DMT" OK, that's the end of the factual stuff. IMHO it is apparent that Amati has been consistent and firm on their position re: the standard and their patents. Mr. Baines, on the other hand, sounded like a politician, as in " at PRESENT, we have not SIGNED a license with Amati". I placed my vote months ago. I think ADI will ultimately license DMT from Amati, but, as always, this is just one man's opinion.
Regards, * A Fool Take represents the opinion of one Fool and in no way should be taken as the opinion of either the Motley Fool, Inc., the company in question or representative of anyone or anything else other than that specific Fool's thoughts. (In thousands, except per share data and percentages)
PAIR AMTX WSTL ADI
Revenues $128,600 12,200 90,700 1,014,400
R & D $12,457 1,610 12,652 145,059
EPS (core) $1.13 ~(0.12) ~nil 1.13
Shares
Outstanding 17,645 15,223 17,318 124,185
Debt/Equity 20.5% 102% 432% 86.7%
Debt/Market
Capitalization ~1.23% 1.2% 2.67% 18.3%
Cash and
Equiv's. $74,050 2,007 21,460 369,904
--Information is gathered in most cases directly from the
respective companies. Otherwise, information has been gathered from sources
believed to be accurate. Dale Wettlaufer, MF Raleigh
MF Mints: Welcome to The Motley Fool's Special chat about ADSL. We have a special chat protocol in place for tonight's chat. By following this protocol, we can have an educational and fun chat. Please observe the following while in the chat room tonight. AA808: ADSL is here MF Mints: If you have a question for Mr. Baines, please type a ? and you will be called on by MFs MOM or Networx. Please do not ask your question until called upon. If your question has already been asked by the time you are called upon, just type pass. Questions asked without being prompted will not be answered. DieShorty: Hi Ed Latka900: thanks,...Dr. do you think AMTX has the best product out of the whole group of ADSL makers?? MF Mints: If you have a comment, please type a ! and you will be called on by MFs MOM or Networx. To ignore someone in the room, double click on their name in the listbox on your right and select ignore. DR PEDICLE:yes i want to hear everyone mints Latka900: DR. why do you feel this way?? JungFool: ? DR PEDICLE: we will talk latr MF Networx: Please everyonre, stand by to hear Rupert MF MOM: Mr Baines welcome to the Motley Fool and thank you for accepting this invitation DR PEDICLE: lets get rocking MF Networx: Rupert? DR PEDICLE: drum roll please MF Mints: To ignore someone in the room, double click on their name in the listbox on your right and select ignore. MF Mints: The Motley Fool is pleased to welcome Rupert Baines (FoolGuest), Marketing Manager for Broadband Telecommunications at Analog Devices Inc. Mr. Baines holds an MSEE from Hull, England and an MBA from IESE, Spain and is uniquely qualified to discuss his industry with us tonight. Welcome! Fool Guest: Oh sorry - i was grabbing my beer MF Networx: Hi Rupert DR PEDICLE: sssh\\\ Fool Guest: (not to be too pompous) MF Networx: I see your name is Fool Guest MF Networx: how are you? Fool Guest: fool guest == rupert Fool Guest: fine thanks MF Networx: can you tell us your title at Analog Devices Inc? Fool Guest: in awe of a virtual drum roll. DR PEDICLE: guest your welcomed JungFool: I'm confused about CAP,DMT,HDSL, etc., will one eliminate another? Fool Guest: ummm. i'm marketing manager for brioadband, but that means ADSL MF Networx: Can you give a brief background on Analog Devices Inc. and their commitment to ADSL Fool Guest: >jung nope. Sure. ADI is a $1 bn semiconductor company - we specialise in sofgnal processing - ScottDeans: ? Fool Guest: ooopps ! MF Networx: thats okay, its hard to type with 50 people waiting Fool Guest: signal processing: analog, digital & mixed. MF Networx: HOw much are they concentrating on ADSL, what % Fool Guest: the BIG comms program we launched was GSM (global digital cellular), that was a big success, and now we are going to do ADSL (and a load of other related things...) MF Networx: when did ADI decide to make a commitment to ADSL? and exactly *why? Fool Guest: How much ? A lot - it is a huge development program with some of the best engineers in the US working on it. Plus we have AWARE as our partners. And we get all the core technology for free from other business groups when ? In 1993. Rustydog1: ? MF Networx: free technology? from the ADSL forum? MF Networx: please hold your questions Fool Guest: why? we copuld see it needed top flight DSP ("we do dat"), analog (no brainer), and mixed signal(hm) DR PEDICLE: when will you buyout amtx MF Networx: why was ADI originally interested in ADSL, video technology? Fool Guest: so we have all the ingredients - not many others can say that free technology. NO !! From all the other ADI businesses. JD32176: Fool Guest what companies would you recommend to take advantage of this ADSL technology? MF Networx: I see, its a mix of analog and digital Fool Guest: We make the ADC that everyone else uses - we got it and can optimise it - they have to use the standard catalog part, and then they pay $ to ADI for it ... MF Networx: Rupert, what is special about the ADI implementation of ADSL? what is ADC? JD32176: What is the difference between ADSL and a cable modem MF Networx: we will get to the cable modem thing later Fool Guest: >MF Networx "ADC" analog to digital converter - where you bridge from real world to computer worlds MF Networx: thanx for the definition Fool Guest: >MF Networx we have the technology to make the best, cheapest chipset. and we've delivered on that MF Networx: you use a method of manipulating that analog signal called DWMT, correct? Jzmw: ????????? Wordsand: Does ADSL = AMATI?? Wesley0428: What will your chipset cost in volume Fool Guest: NO. Fool Guest: DWMT (wavelet) is an enhancement on standard DMT it wasn't invented when the standard was chopsen MF Networx: and ADI uses which one? Fool Guest: we use standard (T1.413) DMT MF Networx: the ANSI standard, correct? Fool Guest: but we suggested DWMT for other applications - eg VDSL JD32176: ? Fool Guest: >wordsand. ADSL==AMTX ? No way MF Networx: I see, DMT for adsl, DWMT for other *DSL MF Networx: I will ask for ?'s now from the audience Wordsand: Who makes ADSL then? I'm sorry but i'm confused MF MOM: Rupert, what are the advantages of DMT over CAP? Fool Guest: >wesley - this gen is expensive - a couple of hundred. > shrink/integrate / improve and we'll be sub-100 JD32176: ? ScottDeans: ? MF Networx: MF MOM will call on you one at a time, please LanWin: ? GMullineau: ? Jzmw: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WORDS MF MOM: JD ask a question Jaydubs: ? Wordsand: ? Wesley0428: Moto says they can get to $90, can ADI? DR PEDICLE: amtx is undervalued Fool Guest: sure. MF MOM: Wesley Fool Guest: The market sets prices - not suppliers... MF MOM: Wesley ask a question MF Networx: Scott deans, do you have a ? JD32176: are you familiar with @Home and Hybrid Networks and how will these companies play in this technology ScottDeans: Do you see a future battle between DMT and CAP, and who will win? MF Wired: ? Fool Guest: the telcos say it needs to be $1000 end-end, falling to $500 end-end. Fool Guest: That sets the silicon price. In a few years $90 will be too much JungFool: ? MF Networx: @Home and Hybrid networks... Wesley0428: Can ADI's chipset cost be competitive with Moto's single chip? Fool Guest: >wesley DEFINITELY !! Wesley0428: Are you working on a 2-chip set? JungFool: Someone suggested bleedover may be a problem at hi speed on DMT? Fool Guest: you want the cheapest chipset - not the lowest number of chips as an end in itself. MF Quest: ? MF MOM: Wired, ask a question Fool Guest: Do you see a 1 chip cellphone ? (no) A 1 chip PC (no) - so wjho cares about a 1 chip ADSL modem ? ScottDeans: Do you see a future battle between DMT and CAP, and who will win? Fool Guest: >wes we'll be competitive. Wesley0428: Great! MF Networx: I see, so the cost advantage of a single chip in fabrication doesn't mean much? MF MOM: Rupert, what are the advantages of DMT over CAP? Wordsand: ? Fool Guest: and a '1 chip' is a lie. 1 chip including driver ? no way. so it is 2 already... and framer ? ATM ? MF Wired: How much more costlier is the DWMT enhancement? I mean who will be the primary end users, that end up using VDSL etc. NormRPh: hi, room MARKPCMD: ? Fool Guest: > scott DMT vs CAP - there'll be a battle yeah. but I think DMT will win (eventiually) Hong1288: ? MF Networx: What is the advantage of DMT? LanWin: Can your ADSL modem communicate with other ADSL modem from dif. manufacturers? NormRPh: how did amtx do today JD32176: What about LSI Logic's Internet-on-a-Chip processors and Digital Broadcast Satellite technology Fool Guest: > MF Networx it depends. There is an optimum sixe to a chip - bigger costs more. so too much integration is inefficient. MF Networx: I see your point. Fool Guest: >plus digital ICs cost reduces fater than mixed signal, so it is more efficient to split em AA808: ? Wordsand: Who manufactures your ADSL modem? MF Networx: I know people want to know the agvantages of DMT over CAP, any thoughts? MF MOM: is DMT more adaptable than CAP in the ATM environment? Fool Guest: >MF Netwox DMT has a variable bit rate - you get the best for every line. it offers better performance re DMT in all cases too. Latka900: ? MF Networx: better noise cancellation with DMT? MF MOM: Jaydubs question Jaydubs: Does ADI anticipate paying AMTX a royalty on DWMT technology? Fool Guest: FINALYY _ THIS IS IMPOTRTANT !! CAP chips only deliver 64K upstream. that is pathetic. It also chokes off TCP/IP to only 600K usable MF Networx: 64 K upstream?? I feel better about DMT already Fool Guest: >MF Network noixe cancel;lation too, yes - DSMT is (a little) better Wesley0428: So 2-way videoconferencing is out with CAP? Fool Guest: >jaydubs. this is a careful one. sorry - there might be a lawyer in the room... MF Networx: what about the ANSI standard, is it possible for two different technologies to conform? JD32176: What companies do you think will benefit from the expanding growth in bandwidth Latka900: does anyone make a better chip than CAP?? Fool Guest: >jay there are a lot of people doing DMT. the only ones to sign a licence are Moto & NorTel - both MARKPCMD: what time frame for implementation of adsl?? Jaydubs: Don't you have to license to be compliant with ANSI standard? Fool Guest: are partners of Amati MF Networx: ANSI does not give licenses, they create standards Fool Guest: nobody else. Not us, not Alcatel, nor Orckit, or Pairgain, or..... >latka we do ;> MF MOM: Latka900 question MF Networx: standards are meant to encourage interoperability, right Rupert? EEver73319: ? LanWin: Can your ADSL modem communicate with other DMT modem from dif. manufacturers ie Amati? Hong1288: ?
Fool Guest: and the guys who designed the CAP chips now work for ADI on our chip ;) Jaydubs: But Fool, those companies aren't on the market yet, are they? MF Networx: Is ADI in CAP and DMT? Wesley0428: Do you know what Moto's royalty % to Amati is? Fool Guest: interoperability - we hope so. we are working on it with other vendors. but it is not easy Latka900: so is CAP going to see a rise in it's bottom line?? Trixten: ? Fool Guest: look at V.34 - a simpler technology, but USR can still use interoperability as a selling feature.... Wordsand: ? MF MOM: MF Quest MF Networx: DMT is a complicated scheme, I would think it would be hard to make it compatible MF Quest: Rupert thanks for being here, when you say ADSL does not equal AMTX, could you elaborate? Fool Guest: >jay Alcatel hads chips last year. Orckit had modems at the same time as Amati. MF Networx: Orckit has impressive technology, too Jaydubs: Fool-In esssence, your insinuating ADI and others WILL NOT pay a royalty, despite using... Fool Guest: it will not be easy, no. but the standard is fairly thorough. and where theres a will there a way JD32176: ? Jaydubs: the ANSI standard granted to AMTX. Won't this open up an enormous legal can of worms? MF MOM: ScottDeans ScottDeans: Is DWMT similar enough to DMT to require an Amati license? Fool Guest: quest - there are a LOT of people in this market. selling chips, selling modems, selling PR puff MF Wired: ? MF Networx: Exactly, a standard can be met without duplicating the technology exactly MF Networx: What about market timing? Who's going to get to my desktop first? Fool Guest: jay. i domn't know. idf it *is* required, then obviously we'll all have to pay. No big deal. But so far, the rest of the market obviously does not feel it is required... DR PEDICLE: i feel like an orphan MF MOM: ScottDeans ask you question again .. ScottDeans: Is DWMT similar enough to DMT to require an Amati license? MF Networx: The "license" would be a relatively small operating expense? Fool Guest: DWMT and DMT are similar, but different. You would need to check everyty patent carefully. MF MOM: Wired ask your question Fool Guest: Sure. It must be 'reasonable & non discriminatory'. If it is too big, that is neither Jaydubs: Fool-What I'm hearing is somewhat troubling. This industry needs to get its act together... AA808: ? LanWin: ? MF Wired: Who are the end users for VDSL, or DWMT, and can you estimate a market for that and ADSL? Fool Guest: look at V.34 for a GREAT example ! Trixten: ? MF Wired: in the coming years? Jaydubs: as quickly as possible. That's why I don;t think it will be likely for CAP to...successfully petition the standards committee for a change. However, it sounds like this...licensing issue could be a major cloud on the horizon. Hong1288: ? MF MOM: LanWin you're up GMullineau: ? Fool Guest: Who owns the patents there ? Moto, AT&T, Racal. Who makes the money ? USRX, AScend, etc. who are the users. consumers, soho. same as adsl. VDSL is the next stage in the same journey LanWin: Why CAP is only limited to 64K upstream? ScottDeans: ? Fool Guest: You've heard of FTTC (fibre to the curb) ?? Great - if you live at the curb. JD32176: What companies stand to benefit from the new technology in bandwidth MF MOM: Lhn5 go ahead with your question . . Fool Guest: ADSL is the last mile (1990s). VDSL is the last hundred yards (2010) JW1KSC: ? Lhn5: Who did invent DWMT? If ADSL will first be volume-installed 1997, when will VDSL?Is VDSL replace ADSL? FDGLDS: ? MF MOM: GMullineau Fool Guest: Lan Win. CAP is=tdself isn't. But the chips were designed that way. Bad choice, but that is what GMullineau: How many lines are within the correct distance to be used for ASDL in the USA? What %? Hong1288: ? Fool Guest: jd - benefit. everyone ;) PC makers. Routers. CONTENT Lhn5 Aware invented (and patented ;) DWMT VDSL is a few years further, better suited to urban MF Networx: What about the market for the nearterm? Is it Internet access, Fool Guest: GM in the USA it is between 80-90%. in Europe more In US West territoruy, less but be careful - if you talk telecommuting those people live far-far-far out.... GM oh - about 80-90 million MF Networx: or LAN telecommuting, or to replace Fiber to the curb GMullineau: How many lines is that? JungFool: ? Trixten: ? Hong1288: ? MF MOM: JW1KSC ask your question JW1KSC: Who has the ANSI Standard on VDSL? MF Networx: to far for ADSL? Fool Guest: nobody yet. the debate (war - it was brutal) started last week. no answers yet LanWin: Is it the nature of Fourier transform that made it hard to be interoperability in DMT? GMullineau: What % of those people use computers? Fool Guest: MF Networx - yes, too far for ADSL Lhn5: ? JW1KSC: Thank You... MF MOM: JungFool your turn MF Wired: ? AA808: ? ScottDeans: ? MF Networx: so what is the ADSL "killer app?" Fool Guest: i heard one figure: 10% are out of range of ISDN, but 40% of wannabee telecommuters are too far out. Wordsand: ?? Hong1288: ? MF Networx: so ISDN still has a place? JungFool: What router style would most complement ADSL? Fiber Channel as Ancor makes? Fast Ether? Fool Guest: LanWin huh ? fourier ? no. that is very easy to define. interoperability is hard cos there are a lot of things that you could do differently, and protocols are complex thingeys... MF MOM: Who has not had at least one question answered yet?, raise your hand now Fool Guest: killer app ? i dunno. i think there'll be a few AA808: Do you see a future for IS Fool Guest: but how about: Trixten: ? Hong1288: ? MF Networx: Someone could create an ADSL router to connect different DMTs MF MOM: Trixen AA808: ? EEver73319: ? Have you seen and tested one of Amati's Overture modems?...Opinions?... Fool Guest: #3 video conferencing - granny in preoria will pay to see the kids Trixten: Who are the end users for this tech Hong1288: ? Fool Guest: #2 gambling (that is the driver for Telstra !). Do you know how many $$$ are spent on betting in USA? MF Networx: For video conferencing, is ADSL suitable with its different send and receive rates? Fool Guest: #1 interactive porn. sorry, but there is big money in blue movies and 900 numbers. MF MOM: Hong1288 . .it's your lucky day Jaydubs: Fool--VOD MF MOM: lol, jaydubs Fool Guest: router - all should work well, i guess. " IP'r"us " MF Networx: funny how adult material often leads the technology curve, but no comment Jaydubs: MOM--A question from Muse... Who's on the phone :) Trixten: Is video the only great advantage then Fool Guest: ee no I've seen them (big) and seen the specs (a lot of power :( but not really trested
MF MOM: Muse!!! your turn! Jaydubs: From Muse--WSTL claims they have 95% of the ADSL market. Do you agree? ScottDeans: Won't Internet access be the biggest selling point.....eventually? Hong1288: Doesn't ZOOM involve with ADSL? WHat do you think about ZOOm? Fool Guest: >MF video conference. sure - you use a symetric 384K, and use the other MBPS for something else MF Networx: what about Westell? MF MOM: AA808 your question is next Wordsand: ? GMullineau: ? Hong1288: ?
AA808: does ISDN have a future? Fool Guest: muse - westell are my customers. i hope they are right - more $ for adi ;) Jaydubs: Fool--Looking out into the future what share do you expect for: ADI? AMTX? WSTL? PAIR? MF Networx: does Westell use ADI chipsets for ADSL? Fool Guest: scott internet access - sure it will, at least in usa. but i think internet as an end in iself
Fool Guest:as a hobby, is going to pass. you need an application KTurkewitz: ? LanWin: ? Wesley0428: Westell uses Aware which uses ADI ScottDeans: Ala internet commerce, etc.?
Jaydubs: Fool-Info and communications are the application. Don't underestimate them. Fool Guest: mf yes. We are the DMT supllier to Westell - if you look in the ADI web site you'll see a nice quote MF MOM: EEver . .ask your question EEver73319: pass...already got it...:~) Fool Guest: wesley - no. westell uses adi which uses AWARE ! MF MOM: KTurk .I owe ya one GMullineau: Is ASDL the limit for POTs? Why not use two lines like ISDN? Wesley0428: Sorry Fool Guest: hong who are zoom ? i don't recognise 'em ? GMullineau: Sorry JW1KSC: ? ScottDeans: ? Hong1288: Zoom made modems MF MOM: Zoom is Zoom Telephonics, CEO stated in a conference call that ADSL is part of long term strategy Fool Guest: aa808 - ISDN will be around for a while Again, look at modems, V.32 is *STILL* the most used... MF MOM: to ship in 98 PKumar1: ? MF MOM: heard, with my own ears Fool Guest: jay if the adsl grows they'll all do well ;) WSTL & AMTX are pure plays - are you gambler ;) MF MOM: KTurk , please ask your question Fool Guest: ADI, Moto & AT&T are all going to make $$$ from it, but KTurkewitz: How well will ADSL work with the copper out there today? That is, how much upgrade to the last mile KTurkewitz: infrastrustructure will be necessary? MF Quest: ? PKumar1: ? Fool Guest: $ too... Wordsand: ? Lhn5: Comment on use of ADSL for cable or'wireles cable' Would that put the satelite dish at the node? MF MOM: PKumar go for it Jaydubs: ? (from Muse) Jaydubs: ? (from me) ScottDeans: ? (from me) PKumar1: Doesn't videoteleconferencing require a couple of megabytes upstream? PKumar1: And so how would ADSL be sufficient in this regard? FKEVIN: what is adsl and how does it differ, exactly from isdn? MF MOM: Scott Deans . . . Fool Guest: gm i don't understand. YOu could use 2 lines, but why ? Or VDSL (51Mbps) over 1 pair ScottDeans: How can you be a DMT supplier when you use DWMT (from Aware) in your chips? Fool Guest: KT good question.... In theory it is supposed to work fine with no upgrading necessary MF MOM: This is my first role as Vanna . . .am I leaving anybody out? ..did I skip anybody Fool Guest: LHN5 ADSL competes with cable... Wireless cable may be complementary - that is Bell Atlantics theory Wordsand: me MF MOM: please . . . DieShorty: ??? MF Quest: <? skipped Fool Guest: PK VC no. Good (profressional) VC is fine on 384K. 64K is not bad. And you can now get cruddy @28 MF MOM: ask your question Wordsand ..sorry I skipped MF Wired: ? ScottDeans: How can you be a DMT supplier when you use DWMT from Aware in your chips? KTurkewitz: ? Wordsand: If Cable modems become the "standard" will ADSN and AMXT be outdated? Fool Guest: scot WE DO NOT USE DWMT. WE USE DMT... there you go. easy !! we might use DWMT in the future MF MOM: DieShorty . .. ScottDeans: Sorry. Just confused about the differing standards. DieShorty: Are we here to hype ADI and their suppliers and TRASH others,You have not even tested their Fool Guest: words NO WAY !!! telvco & cablecop compete head to head. cable modem & ADSL are that LanWin: ? DieShorty: products or their legal department JW1KSC: ? MF MOM: Quest . .. MF Quest: I get the feeling Rupert that you are not enamored with AMTX, could you define "play""gamble MF Networx: We are here to hear the ADI and Ruperts take on ADSL of course there will be loyalty to the home team Fool Guest: words if bg mac becomes the standard, will burger king become outdated ? MF MOM: KTurk go ahead, and then Wired follows Fool Guest: >Die I didn't mean to trash Anyone. Obviously I'm biassed - I think my chips are the best. KTurkewitz: ADSL and cable are going after similar markets. What do you view as the advantages of ADSL over KTurkewitz: cable? MF Networx: yes, what about cable modems? Fool Guest: I haven't tested anyone elses chipset because they haven't released it yet (early 97 from Moto ?) Fool Guest: I have a LOT of respect for the guys at Amati - very sharp people. Fool Guest: MF Quest. no - i meant it is pure play, like westell - you'll either make a lot or go broke. Fool Guest: That is dsifferent from ADSL players like Moto, ADI or AT&T where you'll do OK whichevetr FDGLDS: Pure being 100% ADSL MF Wired: What are the differences in cost between CAP and DMT? For the consumer and for the Bells. Is MF Wired: one cheaper? MF Networx: good point, Rupert Fool Guest: ADSL over cable. Did you see my letter in wired (hhe hee). DR PEDICLE: amtx has an excellent product KTurkewitz: No, I missed it. MF Networx: I saw it, but please elaborate Fool Guest: cable modems are a tree; adsl is point-point. security, shared bandwidth, contention & noise FDGLDS: ? DR PEDICLE: there is noise over any medium MF Networx: ADSL uses hot levels, +28 dB!! Isn't that going to scorch those teenie telephone wires? Fool Guest: CAP is cheaper today. It was released first, is simpler and more experience. DMT will catch up DR PEDICLE: \larger gague copper wire is sed MF MOM: Rupert can you tell us about cable modem contention issues JW1KSC: ? Hime Up: re all Latka900: Isn't Amati's noise cancellation as provided in DMT superior to CAP? MF MOM: as an increased number of users are using the network , will that decrease the available desktop bandw Fool Guest: noise is everywhere, sure. Shannons law rulkes Hime Up: ? Fool Guest: but the tree structure and unterminated lines mean the noise in cable ("ingress") IS *BAD*. horrific Fool Guest: MF 28dB ? huh MF Networx: JW! ?? go ahead Fool Guest: where that from ? JW1KSC: Rupert - Westell & ADI Got it! Who are Amati's Big Customers? FKEVIN: how can i make lots of money investing in ADSL? Fool Guest: the standard is 23dBm - about 100mW MF Networx: we have a postor here who founf stats saying ADSL uses +28 dB MF Networx: isn't 23 dBm pretty hot, or is it nominal? Fool Guest: MF Mom - cable is a shared bus - like old ethernet (pre hubs). everyone shares it. Fool Guest: JW I honestly don't know. I'm not being bitchy, but I don't know. Ask 'em DR PEDICLE: can other mediums decrease noise feedback etc Lhn5: Is ADI competing with AMTX re: Telstra? Fool Guest: FK get a time machine, buy AMTX & WSTL a few weeks ago !! should make you rich ! Latka900: Do you have license agreement to provide Amati DMT? FDGLDS: Where is US Robotics in this equation? They're so into modems! They must be involved somehow MF Networx: asked and answered Latka Hime Up: ? Fool Guest: MF I don't know where he found those stats. It is 23.there's a power boost option to 26 but noone usei DR PEDICLE: is motorola interested in adi MF MOM: in the real world (contention etc), how much bandwidth would you expect cable modem users to get ? Fool Guest: Dr how do you mean ? reduce noise ? DieShorty: Is it not make sense for companies like cisco to do mergers with ADSL co's DR PEDICLE: feedback,,, Lhn5: When will ADI time machine start trials? Fool Guest: Lhn5 Telstra. Hmmm. NEC-Australia are our developments partners (with Westell, Aware & Newbridge) Fool Guest: but have not yet announced a DMYT supplier Discoveryx: ? LanWin: Will your GSM compete in the same market as ADSL? Fool Guest: Dr Pedicle " is motorola interested in adi" ? Sure - we are one of their top competitors in ICs. Fool Guest: some we win, some we lose Hime Up: Where do you see ADI's stock in three weeks? MF MOM: HimeUP . .shoot Fool Guest: > die cisco don't merge - they buy ;) there have been a lot of rumours of their plans DieShorty: EXACTLY Fool Guest: >lhn soon, soon. BUT I GO FIRST OK !! Hime Up: Where do you see ADI's stock in three weeks UP or DOWN? Jaydubs: Fool--It is my understanding that NEC is partnered with AMTX in Australia. DR PEDICLE: can adi compete with motorola MF MOM: Discoveryx . . . Dickjr69: ? Fool Guest: LanWin - no GSM is a cellular (digital wireless/PCS) standard. Discoveryx: Will US Robotics get into this somehow? DR PEDICLE: is motorla committed or they just in everything Fool Guest: Hime Up. Our quarter closes on Friday. I shouldn't say. DR PEDICLE: how does interdigital comm fit into this if at all Hime Up: thanx MF MOM: Dickjr69 ask your question, Dr Ped next LanWin: Thanks Rupert, good smile in Communication Direct DR PEDICLE: they own b cdma patents Fool Guest: jay NEC usaed Amati modems in the trials last year, yes. They needed DMT and our chipset was ready SMyers33: thank you DieShorty: what is your take on Microsoft(MSN) and GTE trails? Fool Guest: US robotics - I'm sure they'll get involved, yes. They were at the ADSL FORUM last month, looking... DR PEDICLE: will adi and you be at the pc expo in nyc in june\ Jaydubs: Fool--So AMTX and ADI are working together in Australia Dickjr69: Are the RBOCs really behind ADSL? Do they see it as the future? Fool Guest: Dr Pedicle - not relevant, cdma is (mostly) for wireless, not wired. and GSM is TDMA LanWin yah boo sucks. I hAte that photo ;( Jaydubs: Fool--What % of revenue does ADI project it will derive from ADSL in '97? '98? 2000? Fool Guest: jay sorry - no. I missed out a NOT. NEC wanted DMT. Amati had it, we didn't. DR PEDICLE: when do you see adsl taking off prime years like modems are today Fool Guest: Dick - yes. They have no choice Fool Guest: Even the RBOCs who used to like HFC (Ameritech, PacBell) are switching... DieShorty: What is your take on Microsoft(MSN) and GTE trails? DR PEDICLE: what is next after adsl what are in the works or cable is the end Fool Guest: jay - it will be a few %. We are a 1$ company, growing at 20-30% pa. ADSL won't be that huge. Fool Guest: Dr Pedicle I think 98 will be the knee. I expect >1M lines in the USA in 98 DR PEDICLE: ok MF MOM: Does ATM map better onto DMT (vs) CAP? KTurkewitz: ! Dr Pedicle--You don't seem to be doing too well with the protocol that MF Networx & MF MOM have set. Fool Guest: Die that is very interesyting. Microsft are people to watch .. Jaydubs: Fool--I'm unclear on your original Australia comment. You said you were and NEC partner... DR PEDICLE: will adsl cost less than isdn line JW1KSC: ? Fool Guest: > Dr afyter adsl is vdsl (51Mbps) Jaydubs: Yet your chipset wasn't ready and they want with AMTX. Could you elaborate here. MF MOM: Dr Pedicle please wait to be called on. . thank you KTurk DieShorty: But Microsoft is using AMATI! DR PEDICLE: ive waited Fool Guest: MF MOM not really. ATM is a higher level (transport?). CAP/DMT are at the PHY layer KBenn1: Microsoft = AMTX MF MOM: so are they equally adaptable to the ATM enviroment? Fool Guest: jay Sure. In 1994 ADI, AWARE, WESTELL & Newbridge formed an alliance to cooperate. HOUWEILIN: ? FKEVIN: would you work for bill gates if he gave you a job? Fool Guest: in 1995 NEC needed modems. We were designing a chipset (ready now), and were not able to help. Lhn5: AMTX not=ADSL, ok. But in Australia that does seem to be the case? MF MOM: JW1KS your question JW1KSC: Re:ADSL won't be that huge, What about all the online PC USERS in the World? Fool Guest: Amati had a system using standard ICs - big & power and $ but available. NEC used it MF Wired: ? Fool Guest: MF MOM - they should be, yes. Fool Guest: MF MOM but for TCP, DMT is better than CAP Fool Guest: FKEVIN Nah. I like what I'm doing. And Seattle rains too much - it's like London LanWin: Can you elaborate on TCP/IP? MF MOM: is there any environment where CAP is preferable to DMT? Fool Guest: Lhn5 No. In Australia ADSL = CAP (AT&T with NEC). In 95 they trialled Amati modems. Nothing more DieShorty: Amati+Microsoft+GTE==$$$$$$ ADI a distance third. Latka900: How many projected users in Australia? DieShorty: Distant EEver73319: DieShorty, grow up... MF MOM: Houweilin . . . Fool Guest: Microsoft are using Amati ? They are ? Wesley0428: So does ADI have a relationship with NEC Aust. or not? HOUWEILIN: if DSL is so hot (and use standard phone line), why it won't take over whole modem market? HOUWEILIN: thnx Fool Guest: JW1K sure. So it will be as big as the modem industry. Maybe we'll be the Rockwell of ADSL. JW1KSC: :) Fool Guest: LanWin the CAP chipset only supports a 64K upstream. DieShorty: YES Rupert they are. Jaydubs: From Muse---AMTX and NEC Australia ree using DMT. Trials are going so well... Wanman11: Made it, whew! JW1KSC: ? Jaydubs: Telstra has reconsidered its fiber optic weighting. Fool Guest: TCP needs ACK frames, so the server slows to the rate they are received at - gives a 700K downstream MF Networx: welcome WanMan Wanman11: Hey, Networx, how was it? MF MOM: Wanman, please ask your question MF Networx: ask Rupert MF MOM: (what a welcome, eh?) MF Networx: ADI gave a presentation to Hambrecht and Quist, right? what did you tell them? Wanman11: Hold on,..... Fool Guest: CAP better than DMT ? not really. It is lower power, so may have some role. Fool Guest: HOUWE because it will cost more. other than that... who uses 300bps nowadays? but... MF MOM: JW ask your question JW1KSC: Rupert - If the online world is not huge, What market/technology is huge ? HOUWEILIN: how much such a ADSL "modem" will cost? who will be making "switches"/"routers"? Wanman11: Rupert: From AMTX home page awhile ago, this had in the spec sheet xmitiing at 28db? DieShorty: Rupert do you have any information about Microsoft (MSN)trials you can sha DieShorty: with us? ScottDeans: ? Wanman11: How about bleed over thru existing feeder cables i.e. 500 pair / exisint copper? Fool Guest: MF networx lots of things. Fool Guest: we chat to them a lot. ScottDeans: How long will it take for ADSL/HDSL/VDSL to obsolete analog modems (V.34)? Wanman11: Again, what happens when a adsl pair take a nick while in existing feeders? Jaydubs: ? LanWin: But AT&T just came out with new 2 chip set one supposed to fix that problems, 64K upstream Fool Guest: I don't know specifics. I prepared a couple of foils, but you know the stuff. MF Networx: still 64k upstream isn't much compared to DMT Fool Guest: HOWEIL an ADSL modem will cost a couple of hundred $, falling to <$200. All modems are <$200 ScottDeans: ! WOW! HOUWEILIN: ic.. thnx Fool Guest: Wanman I have never heard of +28. a typo ? or they are lousy designers ? or cheating ;) Fool Guest: Die I have *NO* info on MSN & Amati. Wanman11: Thats thier quote MF MOM: Rupert, what is the role of echo cancellation in DMT? Fool Guest: I know about the GTE trials, because they *started* in MA wiyth AWARE modems - montrhs before Amati MF Wired: ? JW1KSC: Re: but you know the stuff, was that in answer to my Question Jaydubs: Fool--Re: MSN and AMTX...you must have missed the press release out of Interop... Fool Guest: Wanman - bleed thiough ? you mean xtalk ? It is not too bad. Traditional T1 is the worst by far. MF Networx: Wired, please go ahead Fool Guest: Scott a frew years. ScottDeans: But it WILL happen, right? MF Wired: Do you have any estimates of monthly charges for ADSL users? Wanman11: NOT! T-1 is usally -3db to +3db on xmit!!!!!!!!!!! MF MOM: Jaydubs next Fool Guest: Lan yeah they announced it. Was it in paper or silicon ? MF Wired: Cheaper than ISDN, etc, etc, etc? Jaydubs: Thanks MOM...A few things here... Fool Guest: MF MOM there are two flvours of DMT - with frequency division (FDM) or Echo cancel. Jaydubs: 1) Could you please answer the questions/comments from Wes and myself re: Australia... Jaydubs: namely, are you an NEC partner or not, and... Wanman11: Finding the 28db doc now...... Fool Guest: MF Wired. US west announced 100-150/mo. Then a week later said 'oops we meant <$50" Fool Guest: Jay Sorry - I meant to. Jaydubs: comment on the fact that the AMTX trail has gone so well that NEC is thinking about... MF Wired: Sweet. MF Wired: Unlimited access? Latka900: Is the Echo cancel proprirtary?Can anyone produce it ? Jaydubs: changing the weight assigned to the fiber optic deployment vs. ADSL... Fool Guest: MF Wired. maybe - they' didn't say. I doubt it. Jaydubs: 2) re: MSN and AMTX you must have missed the press relaes out of Interop... Jaydubs: on that subject, how do you explin the addition of the AMTX Overture 4 to the trial after... Jaydubs: GTE had already begun usiung WSTL? Fool Guest: Jay. On the record. I cannot comment on NEC's trials unless they do so. I do know that NEC are DieShorty: "Microsoft is the one to watch" and they have their eyes on Amati. Fool Guest: still members of our alliance. I have heard no announcement from them.I don't know of an Amati chipset LanWin: May be they still use 6micron CMOS at their foundry because they said 3rd Q95 MF MOM: Latka has a good question on echo cancellation HOUWEILIN: ? Latka900: Is the Echo Cancelllation proprietary? Fool Guest: Latka anyone can do it. EC is not unusual. HDSL, ISDN, V.34 all use it Wesley0428: ? GMullineau: ! Fool Guest: JayDubs Yes I was interested by that... MF MOM: Wesley Wesley0428: Any thoughts on Intl. Automation Systems's DWM technology? Fool Guest: GTE didn't want to play fovourtes, so they invited other vendores. No surprise. No worries Fool Guest: but an Overture *4* !!! Fool Guest: What hAppened to the 8 ? Fool Guest: why test a non-standard compliant part? Fool Guest: it is their stand, isn't it? LanWin: Overture 8 is not ready at GTE test Fool Guest: Die re MSN I can't say. I suggest you keep your eyes peeled. There will be other announcements... Hime Up: ? Jaydubs: Overture 4 is non-standard compliant? They own the standard. MF MOM: Wesley, I have the same question MF Networx: Hime up has a short ? Hime Up: When do ADI's earnings come out HOUWEILIN: ? EEver73319: ? TKalino840: ? MF MOM: HOUWEILIN go ahead Wesley0428: I think Rupert went to get another beer MF Networx: Houwelilin what is your ? Fool Guest: Really? the 8 is not ready? So they invent the standard,but don't have a part that meets it? You sure? HOUWEILIN: (call me hou) is CSCO involved in ADSL? wont net traffic hurt performance of ADSL? Wanman11: Gotta ask again Rupert, how does ADSL prevent xtalk in existing copper feeds? Hime Up: Rupert:: WHen do ADI's earnings come out again??? HOUWEILIN: thnx Wanman11: A new feeder will prob. work, however how about a old existing 66block in the telco bucket? Fool Guest: Yes I went for a beer !! Sam Adams Hime Up: Good choice :) MF Networx: True Bostonian MF Quest: Prost! Wanman11: MOM, No one can answer this xtalk question, now I'm worried! Hime Up: Rupert:: As i was saying When do earning come out again??? Fool Guest: hou CSCO was at the ADSL FORUM. the issue of backbone is a good one though - what *WILL* happen !!?? HOUWEILIN: Rupert, trying Tsingtao sometimes, good beer :) (from my hometown, in China) Fool Guest: SALUT ! ScottDeans: ! MF Networx: Eever, ?? HOUWEILIN: thnx Fool Guest: Hime - I don't know. Quarter ended this week. A few days. EEver73319: Do you think AMTX, WSTL, and PAIR's market caps. are justified at this point?... Hime Up: bye all MF MOM: Rupert, can you sum up the crosstalk worries? HOUWEILIN: ! MF Wired: l MF MOM: Scott Deans ScottDeans: On CNBC this morning, Mark Haines asked some CEO about internet bandwidth. ScottDeans: They were discussing ISDN slowing down the internet backbone. ScottDeans: WOn't ADSL/VSDL have a TREMENDOUS impact on internet speed? ScottDeans: (Clogging it up...) Fool Guest: MOM xlalk is the biggest problem, T1 is the B****D, but they all hurt. Without Xtalk you get Fool Guest: much more MF MOM: thank you Wanman11: What is B***D Fool Guest: Yeah - this is something I wonder about. We get 10M people at 6Mbps - how will the backbone cope??? ScottDeans: Looks like lots of business for CSCO !!! ScottDeans: Maybe they'll just buy everybody! ;-) HOUWEILIN: rupert satellite? JW1KSC: ? MF Networx: What about the valuations of the ADSL stocks? MF MOM: looks like a lot of business coming down the pipe for ATM companies Jaydubs: Nite all. Gotta run. Thanks to Rupert, MOM, and Networx for putting this together. Fool Guest: i dunno. i can't see how a lot of thre valuations make sense, but i said the same about qualcomm Fool Guest: ... Fool Guest: mf mom - yes, i think you are right JW1KSC: Do you feel Westell' stock will continue to increase at it's present rate for the next year? MF MOM: it there any technology that competes with ATM on the WAN? MF Networx: Wired ??? Fool Guest: jw i dunno. if ADSL is real, themn they are definitely in there, but the same is true of AMTX & PAIR BPortnoy: ? Fool Guest: MOM I don't think so. Perhaps IP in the short term ? MF Wired: Oh, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on Fibre Channel Networking technology... MF Quest: GNite all, thanks MOM, Rupert, Networx DieShorty: MOM is Rupert qualified to answer this question? MarkR29333: ? SDowl83408: can someone tell me what ADSL closed today and is it a buy tomorrow Fool Guest: die almost certianly not, no. ;) MF MOM: yes, do you consider fibre channel a competing technology for ATM on the LAN? .. . . Fool Guest: i agree with Dieshotrty - I'm not qualified on this ! Wanman11: Frame Relay packets over ATM cells will be big I think HOUWEILIN: ? DieShorty: But all kidding aside Rupert buy some AMTX at the open tommarow I heard it's good hedge. MF Networx: With fast and gigabit ethernet coming, why have atm on the LAN? for WAN, yes but... Lhn5: Die you think he hasn't bought AMTX yet? Fool Guest: I thought of buying a few weeks ago. I've been kicking myself ever since. Lhn5: oops MF MOM: Mark MarkR29333: What makes ADSL possible now that was not possible 3 yrs ago? Or is it now just cost effecti LanWin: Thanks Rupert. Is it OK to send email to you over comms.div? Yamdori: IS AMTX a good buy yet??? MF Networx: It was possible, but Internet access made it desireable SamZ150016: Has anyone discussed Ancor Communication's fibre channel business? Fool Guest: It is seriously puhing the limits of technology. DSP MIPS, data converters - even the analog Yamdori: amtx? MF MOM: Sam , we are not discussing specific fibre channel companies in this chat ScottDeans: Yep. Internet access is the 'killer app' that's ADSL has been waiting for. DaHunter: ? Fool Guest: (amplifiers, drivers) are less sexy, but they weren't around till now. Fool Guest: LanWin - nah. I'll never get it. email to: rupes@cris.com RUNGEM: Can ADSL be done over wireless, like with Metricom's Ricochet... or is it strictly over wire MarkR29333: Seems the cart is before the horse. Usually the apps come after the hardware. MF Networx: strictly over wire EWALDRON: ? MF Networx: DaHunter? Fool Guest: MF Network only just true - Internet makes it sensible to deploy,but til recently just couldn't do it DaHunter: How long has ADI been working on ADSL w/ AWARE and at what facilitiy (@ADI) is it being devl Lhn5: Fool now you'll need to hire another secretary to read all you remail EEver73319: I have a question for all of the MF's...What do ya'll consider the best ADSL play right now? MF Networx: ok, Rupert, thanx for clarifying Fool Guest: RUNGEM there is a related standard - DAB digital audio broadcast - european. wireless adsl EEver73319: PAIR, AMTX, WSTL?... HOUWEILIN: ? LanWin: I got what I want to know. Thanks Rupert & all Fools. Talk to you guy later. Have fun RUNGEM: Who does DAB? Fool Guest: DaHunter since about 93; the work is done in wilmington Lhn5: Guest any comments on IAUS and their DWM--Digital Wave Modulation? EWALDRON: where did ADSL close today? DieShorty: EEver if you don't know the answer check out the Amati folder ASAP> Daves0430: hi cry Travlndood: ? Fool Guest: RUNGEM - idon't really know, sorry DaHunter: Rupert, Have die been shipped yet to AWARE. Fool Guest: Lhn5 no. i heard something about them today. who are they ? MF MOM: Houweilin HOUWEILIN: rupert, 1) you think ADSL will go with ISP or big telecom's like ATT or MCI? HOUWEILIN: 2) do u think your biz will have a better chance in NEW market like China where Inet just HOUWEILIN: started HOUWEILIN: thnx Lhn5: They are demonstrating a supposed new wireles tech 6/27/96. If you're not familiar don't bother, proba ScottDeans: Rupert, thanks for your time and info. Good luck with your chipset. I'm outta here.... Fool Guest: DaHunter. We've shipped chips, yes. Bare die ? No - to very few customers. Latka900: Will all providers insist on ANSI std applications in deployment or will there be hybrids et Fool Guest: hou wherever the copper is. china et al are looking at other DSLs for mass phone srervice eg HDSL. MF MOM: Travindood you're on . . Les Noyes: dull Fool Guest: Latka I think they'll want something that works well, at the right price. Interoperability is a plus. Travlndood: pass DaHunter: Rupert, Without getting in trouble:-) What are the forcasts for starts in 96/97 Latka900: but not essential to providers? Fool Guest: depends who you ask. Latka900: you Les Noyes: dead air is expensive HOUWEILIN: HDSL? Fool Guest: the optimists say up to hundreds of thousands of lines in 97. Fool Guest: the pessim,ists say that will be 98, and 97 is 10-50K Lhn5: Thank you Rupert, Mom, and Networx, a memorable evening Les Noyes: too much excitement for me, nite nite Fool Guest: hou yeah - replaces T1, 1.5M symetric on 2 pais, 24 DS0s MF MOM: Lhn5 thank YOU and everyone for their time and excellent questions . . . . HOUWEILIN: ic.. thnx.. nite all.. it's been pleasure!! MF Networx: Okay, MF Mom and I would really like to thank Rupert for his time and knowledge SMyers33: thank you Wanman11: Thanks for coming by Rupert Latka900: MOM I have a question pending Wesley0428: Do you know the terms offerred by Amati to Moto, what % royalty? Fool Guest: thank y'all DaHunter: I"m still a bit up in the air about xtalk. Hhow is this being adressed?? MF Czar: Thanks to Rupert, MOM, and Networx for their time and effort :) JW1KSC: Thank You Rupert ;-) MF MOM: Rupert, what can we say? ...it's been real . . MF Networx: We certainly appreciate your patience Rupert, it is hard to have ? thrown at you for 2 hours KTurkewitz: Thanks, Rupert--it's been very informative. MF Wired: Thanks Rupert! Fool Guest: wes no i don't. wish i did ;) Wesley0428: Thanks Rupert DaHunter: Thanx Rupert EEver73319: Thanks Rupert...you've been a great help! Fool Guest: no worries - thank you all
ADSL Forum Web
Site
|
|||||
|
|||||||
