Listen in to this episode of Industry Focus for a breakdown of how this app uses the freemium model to make language education easy and accessible, whether the company's books look bien or mal, and why the CEO's track record is something to be excited about.
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This video was recorded on July 9, 2021.
Dylan Lewis: Let's get rolling. It's Friday, July 9th, and we're saying "bienvenue" to Duolingo. I'm your host, Dylan Lewis, and I'm joined by fool.com's flat-footed front man of free-flowing, Foolish philosophies, Brian Feroldi. Brian, how are you doing?
Brian Feroldi: Hola, Dylan. Como estas?
Lewis: Look at that. That I do understand. I took French in high school, I regret it. Should have taken Spanish, but that's how much I can grasp, Brian. I'm doing pretty well. I can't complain.
Feroldi: Wonderful. Well, if you want to up your game in either French, which you've clearly forgotten a whole lot of or Spanish, do I have the app for you, Dylan?
Lewis: That's right. We're going to be talking about Duolingo on today's show. We have our hands on the prospectus from this company. It's an app that helps people learn other languages, not yet public. It will be public probably sometime in the next couple of weeks or months. We're going to be giving you a first look at it, and Brian, I love doing S-1 shows. I particularly love doing S-1 shows on companies that I have used and been a consumer of. That's the case for me. I'm wondering, have you used this app before?
Feroldi: I've never used this app before, but I've known about this app for many years. We're going to talk a little bit about the founder later, but I actually watched the founder's Ted Talk five, six years ago, and that Ted Talk was actually about a reCAPTCHA, another company that he founded and during that, he was talking about he's taking his skills to use to found Duolingo. This is definitely a tech founder that I've heard of, but no, I've never used the app before.
Lewis: I think there are actually some interesting similarities between the reCAPTCHA founding story and what we see here with Duolingo's business with the mission, the drive, and the orientation that this company has. For folks that aren't as familiar with it, I'd highly recommend just go into the App Store, whether your Android or an iOS user, go and check out the app. It's free. They follow this freemium model, and Brian, I think it's one of the easiest and most accessible ways to get started if you're looking to learn a language.
Feroldi: This app has been downloaded more than 500 million times. That is an astounding figure, and to your point, that's because this is the No. 1 way to learn a foreign language, and it's free. How can you not like that?
Lewis: The reason it is free, it ties directly into the company's mission. They say, "Our mission is to develop the best education in the world and make it universally available." They talk about it multiple times in the prospectus, Brian. They really want to make access to education free. They don't want to create barriers or anything like that, and that reflects what we see in the business model, their pricing, and really just how they go about doing most things of the company.
Feroldi: Got to love it. This company is definitely mission-driven right from the start. I want to read something that they wrote right in their S-1. They said, "Duolingo was founded to help build the future where high-quality education is available to everyone no matter where they live or how much money they have. For the first time in history, this is possible. We can reach billions of people on their smartphone with an app that's free and fun to use." I really like that. This tells me that this is a mission-driven company that's going to attract the best and the brightest that are interested in fulfilling that mission. I love it.
Lewis: I love it, and I will say they have, I believe, 40+ languages, and it would be easy to think that they are all French, Spanish. The types of things that you would be learning in high school or middle school or maybe something ahead of travel. I will throw in there though, Brian. There is some whimsy to this company. You're able to learn Klingon or high Valyrian as well as using the platform. Latin's in there. Who says it's a dead language? You can really explore a couple of different things here, but I think what you see immediately when you use the app is, there's clearly a fun and I would say Foolish culture, to the way that this company is running, the way that they treat their users.
Feroldi: You can even go one step further to say that they've really tried to gamify learning a language. They do everything in their power to make it not only easy to do so, but to also make it fun, and they offer rewards and stuff to their members. They say that that really helps to keep users coming back again and again, because we both know learning a language is incredibly hard and it can take a long time to do so. Keeping people engaged through the entire process is huge.
Lewis: Yeah. It's super humbling to pick up something, especially as an adult from zero and really try to learn it. It's easy to stay within your comfort zone once you're an adult. I think they've done a very good job of making their lessons bite-sized. If you have five minutes, you can hop in and knock out a lesson or a really small part of the way that they'd be treating you through the different blocks they have, and I think that's nice. I had originally downloaded the app back in 2015, reengaged with it, actually during stay at home, and was like, I'm going to try to work on some of my primitive Spanish. Unfortunately, I'm probably one of their lapsed users because my Spanish is not particularly good. But I think it just speaks to how accessible it is, how easy it is for people to hop in. What we see with that Brian is, it tends to be something where there's a very large download base, there's a smaller monthly active base, and even smaller number of people that actually pay to use the service, which is how they make a lot of their money.
Feroldi: Yeah, that is the model here. The model is anybody can use it for free. They are monetized a little bit with advertising revenue. The primary way that this company makes money is to upsell those users to an ad-free experience. It also offers some other features offline that you can't get from the free version. However, you can still learn the language easily. One other thing of note is this company actually has a third revenue stream which they call the Duolingo English Test, and this test is accepted in over 3,000 higher education schools around the world to prove English proficiency. When I say 3,000 higher education schools, I'm talking about Yale, Stanford, MIT, Duke, Colombia, really big name premier schools. That is about 17% of their revenue, and it's really exciting for me to see as an investor that they're already thinking outside the box and are developing new revenue streams.
Lewis: I think they've established themselves as the name for this in the way that I think for maybe a previous generation Rosetta Stone would've been the name that you'd use if you were trying to learn a language and do it online or on a computer, and you weren't attending physical classes. I'm loath to say this is the verb of this space. I think Duolingo is pretty close to that like Airbnb or Google [Alphabet] territory, where the app is so synonymous with how people search for these types of learning tools.
Feroldi: How is this for a stat? The number of searches for the word Duolingo are nine times higher than the number of searches for "Learn Spanish" on Google. If that's not brand dominance, I don't know what it is.
Lewis: You see it just generally with learning Spanish and learning French, and some of these other more targeted queries, they are in the first couple of results for all of them. We know from working on the free side of Fool.com with distribution just how important that search engine optimization is because organic traffic is huge. It's nice that I have to pay for it and it's nice to earn it in the eyes of an algorithm. It's a huge competitive advantage and it's a low cost way for them to acquire users as well.
Feroldi: They actually say that 90% of their users come through them through word-of-mouth. This is a brand that travels from person to person and it makes sense why. It's free to download, it's easy-to-use, and it's effective. There are 40 million monthly active users that are using this product. The company has some stats out there to help put that in perspective that I just love. 40 million active users, that's more people are on Duolingo than all of the foreign language learners in all U.S. high schools combined. For some languages like Irish and Hawaiian, there are more people learning those languages on Duolingo than there are native speakers in the world.
Lewis: That's incredible. That's scale for you right there. I think that they benefit tremendously from this freemium model because it's so accessible, and it makes it feel like something that people can just dip their toe into. I think with language, Brian, there are a lot of people who either because they're taking a trip, want to learn a language or have a little bit of background with a language and are trying to dust it off again and reengage with that part of their brain that is tucked away all those verbs and conjugations.
Feroldi: Yeah, that makes sense. It makes sense why there are so many users of this. Now, as we'll talk about a little later in the show, that can lead to some pretty high churn rates. For example, this app has been downloaded more than 500 million times yet the company's monthly active user rate is just about 40 million. That does show that a whole bunch of people have downloaded this and have stopped using it for one reason or another. As a potential investor, that irks me a little bit, that's not too exciting. However, there's no doubt that this is a dominant name in this space.
Lewis: Brian, you mentioned Duolingo Plus before. That's the premium subscription model that they have. It sets users back about $6.99 a month. It is the lion's share of how they are bringing in money, that's 72% of their topline. Let's just talk quickly about what you get with Duolingo Plus and then I also want to spend a little bit of time with that English desk because I think it's a really interesting part of the business.
Feroldi: The primary reason that you go with the Duolingo Plus is because you get an ad-free experience, very similar to Spotify. You can use Spotify for free. Why do people upgrade? They don't want to hear ads anymore. Very similar to Duolingo. They do have some other features that they do call out though, you can take the lessons offline so you don't have to be connected to the Internet at the same time. They have a progress tracker, there's something called streak prepare. You can do unlimited skips on it and you can practice more often on it. A couple of look small features that upgrade, but they really stress that you can still learn a language with the free version.
Lewis: Yeah, the free version is great. It runs with the standard annoyances that might come with a freemium model where you get the ad served up to you. I do think it's helpful to take a step back every now and then with the app economy and with the subscription economy we're in and just remember, it's seven dollars a month is what you're paying for something like this. At that price point, it reminds me an awful lot of paying for Spotify, being $10 or $11 a month, something like that. The shear access that you get for that price point is wild and pretty much unprecedented in human history, Brian. There's been no time where you've been able to pay that little and have access to this type of content library.
Feroldi: One of the things to potentially compare it to would be Rosetta Stone. Rosetta Stone used to be a public company and The Motley Fool really liked it. It was a recommendation in several services. It didn't turn out too well for investors in the long term because I think people liked it because it was at the time the dominant brand name in language learning. However, if you just click on Rosetta Stone and do a Google research right now, you see that you can download their software which is still fantastic but costs several $100. You can compare that to get started for free on Duolingo. I can see why Duolingo is taking the chair.
Lewis: Yeah, I totally get it. It makes a ton of sense to me. I think it helps to be mobile native with a lot of this stuff and really moving with where consumers are. Like we said, Duolingo Plus is the majority of the topline for them. The Duolingo English Test is super interesting. You talked about generally how it's used and there are a lot of top-flight universities that are making use of it right now. It costs $49 per test. It's in the double digits as a percentage of revenue. It's growing pretty substantially which is pretty interesting. It's gone from something that wasn't contributing all that much to the topline, something that's much more relevant when you look at their revenue. But it's not really where the money is coming from, I think it's one of their more interesting growth levers, Brian.
Feroldi: It definitely is and let's talk about exactly where the revenue is coming from. In the most recent year this company grew its topline 129% to $162 million, that was as of 2020. If you break that down further, 72% of that total came from Duolingo Plus and only about 5% of total active users are premium members. It's just like Spotify where the minority of paying users drive the lion's share of revenue growth. 17% of the company's revenue came from advertising so that's the 95% that don't want to pay, but they're still being monetized a little bit through ads. But yet 11% were driven through that Duolingo English Test. English is definitely the biggest language for this company. However, you could see more tests like that being rolled out overtime. Perhaps the learn Mandarin test, the learn Spanish test that could be accepted at different universities. That could be an opportunity for this company long term.
Lewis: That starting to sound like optionality there, Brian.
Feroldi: It's amazing.
Lewis: Knowing that the subscription part of the business is where most of the money is being made. The inputs there are really OK. Can they continue to grow users and can they convert more of their free users over to paid users? We're seeing pretty solid growth for both of those. They've actually seen paid growth exceed what they're getting in terms of just core user accumulation.
Feroldi: Yes, as in the most recent quarter, this company had 37 million total monthly active users, that was up 34% over the prior year. However, if you look at their paid users, that figure was up 84% to 1.6 million. They are doing a better job of penetrating their user base and convincing more and more of them to pay.
Lewis: One other thing I'll toss out there as we're talking through some of these key metrics in the financials is 4.7, and that is the number of stars that Duolingo has on the iOS App Store. What blew my mind looking at that was based on 1.2 million ratings, Brian, that is a staggering number of reviews for an app. It's crazy to hear it.
Feroldi: It really shows you that it works, and those numbers really show why this is the No. 1 top-selling app in the education category on both Google and Apple. It works.
Lewis: It is. In addition to what we see in terms of their exposure with search engine optimization in Google queries that we talked about how 90% of your customers are organic, they consistently rank well in the App Store for education, they're usually the first, second, or third app for education. They're regularly in the cycle being featured for editor's picks and other ways that the App Stores both surface content for users. It's hard to put a dollar value, or what that looks like, Brian, because it just means they've created something that people like and they want to share with other people.
Feroldi: That's right, and that's what it's all about when you're pursuing this company's business model. They clearly are a major player in the category, and that is resulting in some pretty fantastic financial results. In 2020, total revenue growth was 129% to $262 million. The gross margin here, very strong at 72%, there's potential room for that number to grow over time as the company continues to scale. The company is spending pretty heavily on research and development. That's their biggest expense category. They also significantly enhanced their sales and marketing spend. As a result, they actually reported a net loss of about $15.5 million. However, that is just an accounting net loss. If you look at free cash flow, this company reported positive $14 million in free cash flow, so they could be profitable if they wanted to. They just don't want to yet because they're spending to grow.
Lewis: Yeah. With that top-line of growth and the revenue growth, it makes sense why you want to be plowing that money right back into the business. You basically covered everything I already had in terms of financials. I do like to see that for them the revenues diversifying a little bit. In 2019, the subscription business was 82% of bookings, 2020, it is 75% of bookings. We're seeing that that proficiency test is starting to make its presence felt a little bit on the company's books. I'd expect that to continue, especially if they're able to branch that out into other languages and really build that up. It isn't clear to me if there's much of a difference in the margin profile between those businesses, Brian, I mean, at core, they're delivering a digital good. It's really just one way of doing it versus the other.
Feroldi: Yeah, right. We can probably expect that the margins will stay strong for a long period of time. One other thing to note, while we do just have the S-1, we don't yet know what this company is going to come public at, evaluation, any of that. However, even before this company went public, it had a pretty strong balance sheet, $117 million in cash, no debt. That is going to be even better once this company raises cash for the IPO process. Financially, this company is in great shape.
Lewis: Yeah, and I would say, we always like to look and see what employees think of leadership, what reviews look like on Glassdoor, and things are pretty glowing over there too, Brian.
Feroldi: The CEO and Founder here is, Luis Von Ahn, hope I'm saying that correctly. Yeah, we've poked around on Glassdoor, like we always do, with only 43 ratings. So take this with a grain of salt perhaps, but those in those 43 ratings really paint the CEO a very positive way. The company itself gets 4.6 stars out of 5. 91% of employees recommend it to a friend. 96% of them approve. Those are really strong numbers.
Lewis: They are, and you put that on top of a resume where you teased us a little bit before. This is not his first rodeo. He's built something successful and sold it before. He seems to be a pretty passionate and mission-driven leader. I like the pedigree here. I like what he's been able to do and these Glassdoor reviews are just nice further proof that seems to be pretty contained.
Feroldi: I like it when I can find a founder of the company that already has a track record with success, and he already has that. Again, recapture the company he founded that everybody here is probably familiar with when you type something in to prove that you're not a robot. That business was sold to Google in 2009. He already has a history of successfully exiting a business and starting a new one. I'm sure that gave him plenty of capital to live for the rest of his life. Because of that, I would expect him to own a pretty decent amount of stock because he could fund the operations himself. Thankfully, we do see that here. This is a stock with two share classes, Class A and Class B. He owns 14.6% of the total voting power of the company and just over four million shares of the business. Again, we don't know what the final figures are going to be, but the odds are pretty good that he is going to have plenty of skin in the game.
Lewis: Yeah. I mean, we have to wait and see where evaluation comes in based on the growth rates and what we've seen in terms of financials as well as looking at where this company has been. In the private markets, it has boasted a billion-plus valuation privately. It would not be a surprise at all for this to be somewhere in the single-digit billions. If things get really crazy, maybe the double-digit billions for evaluation as it comes public, Brian, we'll just have to wait and see what those details looks like.
Feroldi: For numbers tougher out there, $162 million in revenue in 2020. You put a 10X multiple on that, that's $1.6 billion. You put a 20X multiple on that, that's $3.2 billion. A company that just came public that has similar pedigree, Doximity, after IPO, immediately traded at 50 times sales, which would put this business at about $8 billion. Where is it going to land? I don't know, but I'm guessing the premium is going to be pretty big.
Lewis: Yeah. I mean, businesses that are growing their top line and growing their users where they are, generally tend to command pretty good premiums when it comes to valuation. They deserve it and they continue to deserve it as long as the growth story stays intact. I think it's going to be a really huge part of it. One thing I've thought about a little bit with this, Brian, is how much was this company a beneficiary of folks staying at home and being pushed a little bit more to digital goods? I think it would be easy to overlook that and think of that thesis being more applicable to the e-commerce companies. But I do think that they might have experienced some adoption that they perhaps wouldn't have normally if 2020 was a more normal year.
Feroldi: I think that that's fair. As you've said many times, companies choose when they want to go public. This company's trailing numbers obviously look fantastic. Is it possible that the company goes public and then it's churn rates skyrockets or the number of users that go to the paid really slowed down. All of those things are entirely possible. That will be something for investors to watch.
Lewis: Yeah. But if this company does not do well, Brian, I would say it is not because of the lack of opportunity. There seems to be a lot of fertile ground here. The company seems fairly well-positioned to take advantage of it.
Feroldi: The company believes that there are about 1.8 billion people around the world that are learning a new language at any given time. If you look at the online and offline language working markets, that represents a $61 billion opportunity. I think it's important to note that while this company has a strong foothold in language and that will definitely be the core market for now, the company's mission isn't to help the world learn a second language. It's to bring education to the world. Once they have this platform, is it possible they could rollout other educational products that are in the same vein? That's entirely possible. But to your point, with only $160 million in trailing revenue versus a $60 billion market, there's room for growth.
Lewis: There is a lot of room for growth and I think that this option in particular is really interesting to a lot of people. I mean, I think the freemium model totally makes sense for a product like this. It gives you the feel of being able to dip your toe in its local middle and that's huge for adoption. The big question for me and really, I think this is probably saying that I back into with almost anything that's a freemium business, is when you have such a small portion of users as paying users, that presents massive opportunity. I'm reminded of some of the Cloud storage companies that we've seen out there that are more consumer-facing. But it also means that the consumer expectation is that I don't necessarily have to pay for this product and you have to battle that almost the entire time.
Feroldi: Yeah, that certainly is. [...] asked a question, "What percentage realistically long term will be willing to pay for this?" If you can get almost all of the benefits of a product and remain a free user, why wouldn't you do that? Especially if you can't afford to pay a premium. This company is still going to provide the education to you. But they're already at about a 5% conversion rate that have already got paid products. What does that cap out at? 8%, 10%? Those numbers will be really good. I don't think this is ever going to get 20%, 30% or 50%.
Lewis: No. Me neither, and I think getting even into the double-digits is going to be a little bit of a stretch just historically what we've seen in the freemium markets. I think that tends to be a little bit of a hurdle for them. I will say Brian, one thing I was looking for a little bit more of in the perspectives was some background on either cohort analysis or retention rates or expansion rates or something that gives us a better sense of how someone stays with the product over time. I don't feel like we really got a good look at that.
Feroldi: Why do you think that is, Dylan? [laughs] Why would they keep that information to the cells? What's the first thing we see if a SaaS company comes public? It's, like, page one. Here is our dollar-based net revenue retention rate, it's fantastic, right? If you have to go hunting for it, that's typically a sign that it's not going to be good. Given the nature of the business model and just given the nature of learning a language. When you're learning a language, do you envision yourself using this app for five years? No. It would be something you use for a month, three months, get to just down then maybe use it later to brush up on. I think that's just the nature of learning a language and the churn rate is pretty high. It doesn't surprise me that we don't see it. Again, to just put some rough numbers around it. This app has been downloaded 500 million times and there are just under 40 million monthly active users. That shows that at least 92% of the people that have downloaded this app, are currently not monthly active users. Therefore, the churn rate has got to be high.
Lewis: Yeah. It's like a lot of resolution type businesses, where your idea of something is so ambitious to start and it could be a gym routine, it could be learning language, anything that's aspirational. But then the rubber meets the road and you have to keep doing it over time and life just catches up with you, things come up, and maintaining that goal can become hard. I think with their gamification, they're able to cut through some of that a little bit, push notifications, that kind of stuff. They'll nudge me when I'm not in the app practicing my Spanish or my French, I definitely see them finding ways to engage with people. I have a similar question. A lifetime user is a lifelong learner that is interested in learning new languages over time. Once they feel like they've gotten to proficiency with the language going, "Okay, I'm going to learn Portuguese now. I'm going to learn some other language app checkers or something like that." I think they have to figure out how do we keep people on once they've gotten to wherever they want to be with languages? They do have some optionality there, Brian, with bringing in other sources of revenue and also expanding into other forms of education. I think they probably have a lot of work to do on their core language stuff though first.
Feroldi: They sure do. But again, the numbers for this company are still pretty impressive even with that high churn rate. If I was to invest in this company and follow it which I'm very interested in following it, at the very least, I'm just going to let the numbers do the talking like they always do. What's happening to revenue? What's happening to monthly active users? If those numbers are going up, churn won't bother me too much because given the nature of the app, maybe you use it for a couple of months then you go away from it and then you take another trip and you want to start using it. Again, maybe they roll out new features, but with 500 million peak times in these things and downloads, that gives them a big audience to roll out potentially new products to.
Lewis: Yeah. I think that going through this, it checks a lot of the boxes. This is a snap test company I think for some people, not everybody. There are a decent number of people who go, wait, Duolingo goes out of business, what do you mean? If this company disappeared, people I think would figure it out pretty quickly. They have what seems like recurring revenue. It's a digital product with high margins, low debt. A lot to like there, Brian. What is tough for me is knowing it's a subscription business. I really want numbers on how those users are performing over time and it bothers me so much that they don't exist. I think because there are other subscription businesses out there that tout that number and I can just hang my hand on it. This probably stays in, I'm interested, I'm following for a long time until I see enough performance to really feel comfortable.
Feroldi: Fair enough, can always wait to see how it performs as a public company too or you can hop on the first conference call and ask that very question and see if they'll take your question, Dylan.
Lewis: That's right. Actually, unsurprisingly, this is a business that is looking to engage with retail investors. People are going to be able to get access to IPO shares via the Robinhood IPO access platform. They announced the scanned details at the moment, but that is something to keep an eye out for. Brian, I think that's a fun thing for companies to be doing. Totally makes sense in the case of Duolingo. It's a consumer-facing brand, and they have a lot of loyal users. Why wouldn't you want those people to be shareholders?
Feroldi: I would absolutely love that. My personal view of Robinhood would skyrocket. If all of a sudden I can get shares of companies like this at the IPO price because of Robinhood, I love that they're doing that because how many times have you talked about a company on the show we say, "This is interesting," and then, what happens in day one?
Lewis: Share price doubled.
Feroldi: Right? It's like, how do I get those shares at the IPO price? You can't. That would be great if Robinhood allowed that to happen here.
Lewis: Yeah. I think we will see that happen, but we'll get more details on that. We say it all the time. It has never been a better time to be an individual investor, Brian, except for maybe tomorrow. I think it only continues to get better for us on the retail side. It's great to see costs coming down. It's great to see access improving. I think things only continue to go that way. I don't really have much more on Duolingo. I feel like we've covered it. I think this is a super fascinating business. The numbers look pretty darn good. I'm paying attention to this thing. I just want to see more from them as they come public.
Feroldi: Fair enough. I do want to point out one other thing that caught my eye in the S-1 that is worth noting. This company is heavily reliant on Apple and Google for distribution of their app. In fact, Apple is responsible for over 47% of their revenue, and Google is responsible for 29% of their revenue, and Shrike is responsible for 14% of their revenue. If those two platforms, Apple or Google, for whatever reason decided to kick Duolingo off, that could make it really hard for this company to grow. Do I think that's going to happen? No. Did I think that Apple and Epic Games are going to have a feud and I wouldn't be able to play Fortnite ever again on my iPad? No. Things can happen. Just keep that in mind if you're an investor.
Lewis: Are you trade marketing the Epic Games disclaimer? Any company with app-based distribution now needs that as a caveat.
Feroldi: It really shows you just how powerful Apple and Google have become, but that is something to watch here. What happens if Apple all of a sudden got really serious about taking on language and said, "Hey, we're not going to offer this in our platform anymore." Again, do I think that's going to happen? No. Could it?
Lewis: Yes. You know, Brian, even if it doesn't happen, it speaks to the dynamics at play with distribution and what Apple and Google are really able to charge. There's the "Apple tax" for apps and it varies depending on who the provider is, the popularity, the model, all that kind of stuff. But it's not an insignificant amount of money if you're an app creator. So that is something that plays into the company's financials at a certain point and could be worth paying attention to.
Feroldi: Sure. But overall, as you said, I think that there are more positives than negatives with this company, and I for one sure plan on following it after it comes public.
Lewis: You and me both. We'll be paying attention to anything else that comes out that might be worth tearing through perspectives wise. We're always hungry for more S-1s. Of course, Brian, we're always looking for listener suggestions as well. Industryfocus@fool.com, always shoot your ideas there. But of course, we're @MFIndustryFocus on Twitter, and Brian, you're @BrianFeroldi on Twitter.
Feroldi: Mm-hmm. We've gotten several ideas from people that have sent me a direct message, so if you have an idea for our show that you want to hear about, hit us up.
Lewis: Love it. Brian, as always, thanks for hopping on and talking with me.
Feroldi: Hasta la vista, Dylan.
Lewis: Listeners, that's going to do it for this episode of Industry Focus. If you're looking for more of our stuff, subscribe on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. As always, people on the program may own companies discussed on the show and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against stocks mentioned, so don't buy or sell anything based solely on what you hear. Thanks to Tim Sparks for his work behind the glass today and thank you for listening. Until next time, Fool on.