In this podcast, Motley Fool co-founder David Gardner revisits an old lesson about building bridges instead of walls, explores five cutting-edge innovations reshaping our world, dives into the power of social capital, and reflects on the hidden strength of habits -- through the lens of a world-renowned board game designer. Whether it's investing, relationships, or daily life, this episode will challenge how you think about connection, progress, and the routines that define us.
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A full transcript follows the video.
This video was recorded on Feb. 06, 2025
David Gardner: Every once in a blue moon, or a new moon, or an old moon or a borrowed moon, I queue up a hodgepodge of points that I want to share. They're not really related to each other necessarily. They're a hodgepodge, but I force them to fit into this mold, something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. You probably know the expression, don't you? It's what brides traditionally are supposed to wear on their wedding day for good luck, something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. While I won't be providing this on this podcast, you're also supposed to have a silver sixpence in your shoe. If you want to locate a dime or a quarter, slip it in your shoe for this week's podcast, I think you might have even better luck. We're going to talk about building bridges instead of walls, about five amazing new technological developments, about social capital, and about why world famous board game designer Reiner Kanzi always plays blue, something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue Volume 9. Only on this week's Rule Breaker Investing.
Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing. I do feel a little bit older now at the age of 58 when I say old new borrowed Blue Volume 9. This is the ninth in the series. Of course, each one is unique. If you like this one, go back and listen to the previous eight. If we're doing Volume 9, it means I like this series. I hope you do too. It enables me to speak to four points, usually a motley array of different topics, and that's, again, going to be the case this week. Now before we get into it, I want to mention next month because I need to start hyping it up right now. If you're a college basketball fan, you know that March Madness is a big part of the sports world, at least in the United States of America each March. But starting with last March and now repeating this March and perhaps every March thereafter on this podcast, we have March Market Cap madness. I have a final four of Motley Fool analysts and advisors, each of whom has qualified for his or her seat in my final four next month, it's all Market Cap Game Show play along with us all month long. It's March Market Cap Madness. Will you win the World Championship? That's March. This is February.
In fact, we're going to have a lot of stock stories coming a little bit later this month. A few episodes before March Market Cap Madness, which I hope will make you smarter, happier, and richer. As I shared at the start of the year, my 2025 book, Rule Breaker Investing is available for pre order now. After 30 years of stock picking, this is my magnum opus. It's a lifetime of lessons distilled into one definitive guide. It's the playbook for anyone who dreams of beating the market, living richly, and having a laugh along the way. Now, each week until the book launches this summer, I'm sharing a random excerpt. We break open the book to a random page, and I read a few sentences. Let's do it. "Last Chapter in discussing when to sell, I noted that it's not always as simple as trimming a position back to your sleep number or dumping a loser to zero out a capital gain. Sometimes your quarterly review asks a tougher question, what will you sell to buy that new stock you're excited about or to fund a down payment on a home? Why we invest in the first place." That's this week's page Breaker preview to pre-order my final word on stock picking shaped by three decades of success. Just type Rule Breaker Investing into Amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, or wherever you shop for fine books.
Thank you to everyone who's already pre ordered. That means a lot to me. Four points this week. Let's start it with something old. That means we've covered this before on this podcast and in fact, it was great quotes Volume 12. The month was July 2020. We'll be talking about that in a sec. But here was the quote from WE Channing 'People are lonely because they build walls instead of bridges. First came across that quote in one of David Allen's books. Now, if you're a fan of getting things done, the classic productivity framework you'll know that GTD is all about organizing your life with less stress. I read it in my mid 30s. At the time I was balancing a growing business with a family full of young kids, and I'll tell you that book so greatly helped me. David Allen has even been a guest on this podcast twice. If you ever need a refresher, just check out my conversations with David Allen from November 2016 on Rule Breaker Investing. Actual old point today, though isn't about productivity. It's back to that 'People are lonely because they build walls instead of bridges. July 2020. The heart of the pandemic when we rocked it on this podcast. A year we knew would be talked about for decades.
Loneliness, lockdown, social distancing became the phrase. Remember that? I never liked that phrase because we did need physical distancing, but I don't think we ever need social distancing, but lockdown. Remember, it wasn't that long ago, the little things that connected us, small talk at the office, sports chatter with strangers, friendly nods at the coffee shop all vanished. We stayed home. The world felt quieter and smaller. That first week of July 2020, I was going back to my notes. We had a small but telling event at The Motley Fool. Our company had rebranded that month, and to celebrate, we were all given swag, hats, t-shirts. But how do you distribute swag during a lockdown? Well, the answer is, it's simple. You got in your car and you drove to our Alexandria Virginia office, and you lined up in your car. We were lined up around the block, and you collected your stuff from smiling, gloved colleagues. I wasn't there for the free shirt. I was there to see people to wave through the windshield, to feel like I was part of something again. That was then. In so many ways I'm happy to say, here in February 2025, we're back. Yet it's also worth pointing out what a shock to the system that couple of years was. We are not locked down anymore. Yet the US surgeon general a little while back, do you remember this said loneliness hasn't disappeared. He actually called it an epidemic, likening its health effects to smoking. I'm not sure I believe this, but smoking 15 cigarettes a day. He said it's linked to higher risks of heart disease.
Loneliness creates more stroke, more dementia, more depression. Remote work, hybrid schedules mean fewer organic interactions. Our social muscles a little out of shape. How many friendships have faded, not from falling out, but just from simple inertia? Now, this is of course the Rule Breaker investing podcast where we focus on what we can do, not what we can. The opposite of WE Channing's quote is where I'm focused here this week. Here it is the opposite. People aren't lonely when they build bridges instead of walls. I thought to close up Point Number 1, something old with five quick ways, small intentional actions that you my fellow Foolish listener in the week ahead can build a bridge instead of a wall. I challenge you to try any one of these, and I will say you earn yourself a gold jester cap if you accomplish all five in the next week. Here they are one, two, three, four, five. First, send a spontaneous message. Just text someone someone you haven't spoke to in a while. Just to check in. No agenda. Hey, thinking of you. That's number 1. Number 2 turn a transaction into a conversation. Next time you get a coffee or check out at the grocery store, go beyond just the standard thanks and give that Barista or cashier a compliment that can lead to a short conversation where you learn something about them. Number 3, extend an unexpected invite.
Plan a lunch, a coffee, even a quick walk with someone you wouldn't normally think to spend time with. Number 4, give a small unsolicited gift, a handwritten note, a book recommendation, or forwarding an article that made you think of someone can go a long way. Finally Number 5, reconnect in person. If you work remotely, drop into the office one day just to see people. If you're always texting, make it a phone call. If you default to email well try Zoom instead. There you go five small, easy everyday actions. But like Rule Breaker investing into stocks, these investments compound as well. They turn passive isolation into active connection. They shift us from building walls to building bridges. You're going to light up someone else's day and in so doing you're going to light up your own day too, at the Motley Fool our purpose is to make the world smarter, happier, and richer this one this week, something old. It's about the happier. Next, Number 2, onto something new. Or here, let's call it some things. Lots of new things, actually. You paying attention? Much attention, at least here in the US, was focused last year on the election, and at the start of this year on constant headlines about government bureaucracy, and reform.
Chaotic stuff, when looked at from one viewpoint, needed for a long time when looked at from another. I don't know about you but I see both. Don't want to spend time there because I generally try to avoid the days here today gone tomorrow, headlines and I'm actually making a serious point here. Stick with the things that really matter. For something new, let's quickly scan the world of technology, technology that leads to human flourishing, which by the way, is a much deeper and longer and good story than anything you're likely to read in today's news headlines. Especially to you and me, these can be profitable places for your investment research and your investing Rule Breaker Investing.
Here are five new things I'm seeing that I hope you'll be paying attention to as well. First up, AI driven drug discovery. Imagine this. Instead of spending years and billions of dollars on trial and error in the lab, scientists are now harnessing the power of artificial intelligence, smart algorithms sifting through mountains of biological and chemical data spotting promising drug candidates at much faster speeds. That means treatments for diseases can be discovered faster than ever before.
That'll get lifesaving medications to patients much more quickly. It's not just science fiction, it is a revolution. It's how we're approaching healthcare and it is new. Something new Number 2, brain computer interfaces, a direct communication pathway between our brains and an external device. For instance helping someone with paralysis control a computer or a robotic limb. These breakthroughs are near, and in some cases they're already happening. They're initially opening up doors for people with disabilities, but of course in time the Rule Breaker in me sees fundamental changes as to how we'll think about and use technology in everyday life. I do hasten to add that it cuts both ways. Of course, like any other powerful tool from the Internet to AI to genetic engineering, these things can be used for good or ill, but what people who spend time reading fearful clickbait headlines too often forget, I would say to their detriment, if the good guys always outnumber the bad guys, which in large way explains why the Internet has been a great good to humanity.
AI will be too so will genetic engineering and brain computer interfaces. In so many ways today we humans are flourishing at a scale and a rate that was not even contemplatable by the past and why I would say here again, brain computer interfaces, though it sounds like a scary phrase to many, I think probably means a world of good. There will be sci-fi streaming shows that will almost always show this as a dystopian thing. But the thing about sci-fi is it usually is dystopian, and the good news is it's more fiction than science. A third new thing I'm seeing out there, are you? The transformation in how we power our lives. Renewable energy. It's been happening for a long time. It is accelerating. It is by no means the only answer today, but thanks to innovative materials, improved battery storage, solar and wind are becoming more efficient and more cost effective with every passing month and year. By the way this isn't just about reducing pollution. It's about fundamentally changing our energy infrastructure cleaner energy does mean less reliance on fossil fuels that does lead to a healthier planet and more sustainable energy supplies for the future. We're talking about that conscious capitalism win for both our environment, our economy, and you and me. By the way quick board game recommendation for you, the game Daybreak by Matt Leacok.
Gamers will know Matt as the genius designer behind the mega selling cooperative tabletop board game pandemic with daybreak his release from just a couple of years ago, each player controlling a world power, deploying policies and technologies to both dismantle the engine of global heating and to build resilient societies that protect people from life threatening crises. Again it's a co op. It's a game where you work together. There's a Games plug here in February for Daybreak by Matt Leacok. We've really enjoyed that in our household. I did say five new things, so that's three. How about two more? Number 4, let's consider for a minute the incredible advances in next gen water purification and desalination. Water is life and access to clean water is critical. Recent breakthroughs in water purification technology check it. Pretty amazing. By combining advanced filtering techniques, throw in some nanotechnology and sometimes even renewable energy, we're now able to convert polluted or salty water into clean drinkable water. Imagine remote areas or drought stricken regions suddenly having a reliable source of safe water. This is a technology that will reduce water borne diseases, significantly improve quality of life around the world.
I remember a funny graphic I saw years ago on social media. The cartoon showed a map of the drought ridden golden bear state with a big arrow pointing just left of it to the Pacific Ocean, saying basically Silicon Valley. Are you seeing what we're seeing? It makes sense to me that we will get better and better at scaling pure water on a planet that at last check was two thirds water. Finally, something new Point Number 5. Let's talk about how we grow our food through innovations today in smart agriculture and vertical farming. It turns out, again, you can integrate artificial intelligence, robotics, and controlled environments. You can now grow crops indoors, even in urban settings. These are methods that can use 90% less water. 90% plus less land, fewer chemicals compared to conventional farming practices. If you don't know about this, just go ahead and google vertical farming. You're going to read a lot more about it. The result is fresher locally grown food with a smaller environmental footprint, enhancing food security and sustainability as that global population on planet Earth continues to grow. There you have it. Not just something new that isn't a news headline, but five new things, all of which represent groundbreaking developments that are not just changing technology, but also setting the stage for what will be a healthier, more sustainable, and more connected future. Good news. These aren't just abstract ideas, my fellow Rule Breakers. They're real. They're tangible innovations. People are working on them. Right now as we speak, they're going to shape the way we live, invest, and thrive, so keep an eye on them because they're the Rule Breakers of tomorrow's investing world, and that's something new. Something old, something new.
Now, Number 3, something borrowed. Usually something borrowed comes from a great author, a great thinker, a great book. In this case a bunch of those, several of whom I've had on the podcast before, which is maybe a recurrent theme for this podcast, bringing back the wonderful contributions of past talents and making them fresh again for you. Something borrowed. That means I didn't come up with this myself. I learned it from somebody else. I mentioned this phrase very briefly at the opening of the show this week, social capital. Now some of you right away, are going to say, I know what that is, and others are going to say, wait we talk about capitalism on this show and I might know about money or financial capital, but what is social capital? Social capital is a phrase that first of all, has too many definitions. It's like the word leadership. If you try to come up with the definition for leadership you'll be going against 79 previously existing definitions of leadership used by many different people, going back to the Greeks, no doubt, all of which have some claim to be a definition of leadership. Let me start by briefly defining what I think we're talking about with something borrowed. The Oxford Dictionary defines social capital as the networks of relationships among people who live and work in a particular society, enabling that society to function effectively.
Social Capital, that's from Oxford. Wikipedia goes with a concept used in sociology and economics to define networks of relationships which are productive toward advancing the goals of individuals and groups. On this podcast several months ago, Elaine Hungenberg of X Prize Foundation Fame, brought such a positive voice to this podcast. Elaine basically said, and I, David, you and I believe in the power of social capital. The two heads are better than one, that's a fairly simple definition of social capital. I like simplicity. Joe Kenner, the CEO of Greyston Bakery, the New York State based company, you might have enjoyed their Brownies, they're sold at Cava among other places, but Greyston Bakery, which has embraced its famous policy of open hiring, where it doesn't look at your resume or your background, even if you've been in prison, it just hires you and then encourages you to do your best in an environment that for decades has been sustained by open hiring and is growing. Joe Kenner, on this podcast three years ago, January said, In effect, describing social capital, I would say, and I, you have something to offer society, I have something to offer society.
The next person has something to offer when we use all of those ingredients, all those gifts, everybody benefits, quoting the Oxford Dictionary, Wikipedia, Elaine Hungenberg, Joe Kenner. They're all circling around this concept of cooperation and trust, which when it exists and grows, benefits all of us, when we use all our ingredients, everybody benefits, something borrowed. I'm going to keep borrowing from others. J Jacob, co author of the book, Completing Capitalism, a wonderful book. We talked about it with JN authors in August some years ago. He said there are three measures that he's identified as a business consultant, observer, entrepreneur, and practitioner himself, three measures that account for 75-80%. For example, if you try to measure the social capital of your church of your corporation or your club, if you actually tried to measure social capital, J Jacob and his co author Bruno Roche, distilled the complexity of it into three dominant variables that appear consistently across all of their diverse research. The three measurable threads are Number 1, trust, so the level of trust between individuals or businesses, if that's the context here, institutions within a community. Trust, a fundamental element of social capital, it facilitates cooperation, it reduces transaction costs, if you run the numbers, bean counters, and it enhances stability in economic and social interactions. Trust is the coin of the realm, the dearly departed former US Secretary of State George Schultz once wrote, Trust. Measuring that accounts for a large part of identifying social capital in a given context.
The second thing you're looking for is social cohesion, Jacob and Roche say the degree to which a community is unified and its members feel a shared sense of belonging and identity. After all, lots of organizations, mine, the Motley Fool, maybe yours too, do things like what are our core values? What is the mission or purpose of the enterprise? Those things create the social cohesion that give us a shared sense of belonging and identity. It also, if you look at networks, it will strengthen across networks when social cohesion exists, it enhances resilience, it fosters a supportive environment where collaboration, social capital is more effective, so that's thread Number 2 we're looking for here and thread Number 3, again, if you're trying to measure social capital in these borrowed points this week, the third thing you're looking for is collective action toward a common good. J Jacob said on this podcast the capacity of a community to organize and to work together to achieve shared goals. For example, neighborhood cleanup, can we all get together as a neighborhood, one neighbor to another and clean up the neighborhood on a given Saturday? That would be an example of collective action toward a common good, solving problems, improving overall well being. This aspect of social capital basically reflects on a community's ability to mobilize resources and then sustain cooperative efforts, importantly here for this phrase for mutual benefits.
As I mentioned earlier, there are many ways to define social capital, and J Jacob would say there are many ways to measure it. He had up to 60-70 frameworks he was using in his academic research. Those three variables, trust, social cohesion, and collective action toward a common good are the keys and the last thing I want to say about social capital, other than it's a beautiful concept and something I think you and I should get to know better in the world at large today, but I want to mention Arthur Brooks' contributions in this regard when he came on this podcast two years ago, Authors in August, we talked about his book, love your enemies. He was talking about another book, the 2000 book, haven't read it myself. Bowling alone by Robert Putnam. Some of you will be familiar with this, but you don't need to be at all, because I'm about to summarize a couple of key concepts to close this meditation on social capital.
Putnam in Bowling alone, Arthur Brooks relayed to us identifies two forms of social capital, and see if you can grasp both of these, I bet you can. Dear fella, Fool, the first, he would say, is bonding social capital. That's inward looking, that's identity sharing, so that's us. For example, you and I went to the same university? Great, we have some bonding social capital. Some ethnic sharing between us? Great, that's also bonding social capital, same religious denomination, that is us, that's about bonding. It's especially powerful for minorities, especially when them is much greater than us. Let's say, if you're just counting the numbers, there are far more people who are them than us, bonding social capital becomes more meaningful and obviously, it builds some of that social cohesion J Jacob was talking to. It provides support, sometimes psychological support for minorities. Taken too far, it can entrench division, a sense of us versus them but I'm here to say it's a good thing, bonding social capital. What's the other type of social capital? It's bridging, a really keyword for this week's podcast, we need to build bridges, instead of walls bridging social capital. This one is probably a little bit rarer to find in the world and equally important, so bridging social capital, Arthur Brooks was saying, is born out of embracing those who don't fall within your camp. When you make friends, establish relationships, build identities, co build identities with people who are very different from you. You're broadening your own identity, and you are strengthening reciprocity between you and that person, not just one to one, but maybe your peeps and their peeps. Reciprocity is growing trust and social capital is building with this bridging social capital, so I would say, social capital is built on our common humanity. It's about what makes you and me more alike than different.
My final thought then about social capital is recognize both of those in your own life. The bonding social capital that is often a very natural outgrowth of who we are and the people we grew up with that we connect with on a regular basis and that is really important for all of us, especially avoiding loneliness.
Any form of social capital is better than nothing, and bonding is so important, another one would be our sports teams, you and I cheer for the same sports team. That's bonding social capital. That really matters, but it is not at all a trade off, and it is not the opposite of bridging social capital, which is born again out of embracing those who don't fall within your church, your sports team, when you make friends with people who are completely different from you. You are enlarging your own boundaries. You are growing yourself and I'm here to say and suggest that you try to maximize both of those. I think the richest life to go back to smarter, happier, richer where you have maximized your bonding social capital, and you've maximized your bridging social capital, and as much as possible, you've extended it outside of yourself or your family or your group to the world at large, and you've enriched all of us. Something borrowed this week, borrowed again from many different names and concepts and authors that I mentioned, brought all together under one rubric, which I hope you'll think more about here in 2025. Social Capital, something old, something new, something borrowed, and to close, something blue.
Now, before I start talking about a world renowned board game designer and friend of mine, Reiner Kanzi, I do want to mention my producer, Heather Horton, mentioned Blue Zones, and whenever I think about blue, I also do think about Blue Zones, the work of author Dan Butner, something we've talked about in the past on this podcast and I've never done something blue about Blue Zones, but first of all, for those who don't know what a blue zone is, it's an area of the world where there's a surprising amount of consistent longevity. In that group, in that geographic area, relative to the norms, relative to the rest of us. Blue Zones are healthy groups of long living people and Dan Butner and his book, Blue zones and his organization has invested a lot of time in understanding why people live so long in those places and then extending those learnings to all the other places, too. While I'm not about to talk about Blue Zones, given how much we're talking about trust this week and social cohesion, I have to thank Heather for reminding all of us that Blue zones are a great example of that, but now let's go to the blue that I actually cued up to talk about this week. Reiner Kanzi is not just a world renowned board game designer, which by the way, he is. But on a much smaller level, he's a friend of the Motley Fool.
I first got to know Reiner through his games because Reiner would say he tries to be present as many places around the world as he can on your tabletop, playing with your friends, maybe your family, that's where Reiner pops up most often in many places, even if he's not a household name to people outside of games, but my incredibly generous brother Tom Gardner, somewhere in the late 1990s as a birthday gift to his older bro, and be knowns to me, decided to fly Reiner Kanzi from Great Britain, where the German Emmy Grey was living at the time, Reiner today lives back I think he's back in Munich, but anyway, from the UK to Alexandria, Virginia, which is where, of course, the Motley Fool is based in order to play games for a few days with all of us and so that was my first opportunity. Thank you again, Tom, for that fantastic gift to get to know Reiner a little bit more. Reiner has some very definite thoughts about the world, ones that I've appreciated and come to even more appreciate as I've aged. Some of his thoughts are about pain. For example, when he's beating you at one of the games you're playing with him, usually he just plays his own games. He's pretty good at them, he'd be good at any game, but he's especially good at his games. When you're playing Reiner's games against him, as he's beating up on you, he will often lay down this phrase in his German accent, something along the lines of if it does not hurt, you will not learn, and that is a rhinism. If it does not hurt, you will not learn.
I think I've used that with my kids, with my friends in many different contexts since first hearing that from him 25 plus years ago. Speaking of pain, I showed up one of those mornings when he visited to meet him at Starbucks, and I think we said we'd meet at 9:00 A.M. And I got there at about 9:04 A.M, and he was sitting outside already with a cup of coffee at a bench right outside our local Starbucks, and he was looking at his watch and pointing to it as I approached at 9:04 A.M, and half seriously, half humorously, but I will also underline that half seriously, he laid down this line. When you are late, someone is hurt. The one who is hurt should not be the one who is on time.
Ever since Reiner laid that one down on me, I've tried to be more punctual. I think many of my fellow German Fools will recognize that is often part of the German national identity. Reiner is certainly a great example of that, but anyway, if it does not hurt, you will not learn and when you're late, someone is hurt and the one is hurt, should that be the one who's on time. Things I've learned from Reiner, something else I learned from Reiner, when you play board games with him, you don't get to play the color Blue. Reiner plays blue, Reiner always plays blue. He's play tested all of his games so many times over the years, prolific qualities rivaling Mozart in another time and context, except Reiner's lived a lot longer. He's play tested a lot, he does it with groups of school children, local to where he is. He does it with adults, he does it with friends like me and Tom, many people besides, and he's always playing blue, among his play testers and friends, Reiner said, why joined me on this podcast a few years ago, people know that they can't have blue because I'm playing it.
I'm going to explain why in a sec, but first, I want to tell a quick story because that created a problem once, Reiner told us when he had a sales meeting, so he's showing off a new prototype of his to potential publishers. Here's the world renowned designer, politely asking across the table the sales rep, which color do you want to play? She said, blue. Reiner said, I had to give her blue. Now, when you remember that Reiner always plays blue, and all of a sudden, in a sales meeting where he's trying to sell a publisher on a game, they're playing blue, you can maybe imagine what happens next. Reiner said, we played it a little, and I was playing completely nonsensically, because I always thought I was playing blue, so he's moving her pieces. He's moving the blue pieces by mistake, the supposed world renowned genius game designer, and she just looks across the table at him and says, what are you doing? Reiner said she saw that I'm a complete fool, we would say small laugh at the Motley Fool It was so ingrained in his mind.
There's something great about being a creature of habit, and here's another inersm I first heard really from him. In our strength is our weakness, in his games, he often designs it such that you lean hard into your strength, whatever your advantage seems to be on the game board, in the context of the game you're playing, you lean on your strength, but if you lean too hard, it can start to become a weakness. Why does Reiner always play blue? Well, he told us it builds a habit, it's a routine. There are great benefits of that. For Reiner, blue is important because he was saying, why make it difficult for us? Why do I have to process each time am I red or yellow or green or whatever? I'm always blue. Done, I can concentrate on the important stuff.
Something old, something new, something borrowed and now you see something blue. This is the blue point. Although, if we want to make it black and blue for a minute, Steve Jobs had a reputation for always just wearing a black turtleneck. That way, he didn't have to think about what he was going to wear each morning. It was just mechanical, so he could move on to more important things to higher callings, so that's something blue. Black and blue, if you like. Let's close with a quick look back, something old? People are lonely because they build walls instead of bridges, so don't. I gave you some fun homework to do, one or more of my five simple tasks. Something new? Well, how about new technologies, five of them promising so much, beginning to shape our world today. Are you paying attention? Rule Breaker investor, or do you have your nose in the clickbait political headlines, something new, something borrowed. Social Capital, let's just call it social capital, a layman's guide this week, something borrowed and, of course, something blue in our strength can sometimes be our weakness, but if you always choose blue, most of the time, you're going to be able to see and stay focused on the more important things. Fool on.
