Ford Fusion Confusion

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 4:35 PM, willjames2000 wrote:

  So US manufacturers assemble some cars in Mexico. Well so do Toyota, VW, Nissan, Honda, BMW, and Mercedes Benz. And even with some US-based manufacturers assembling cars in Mexico, the vast majority are still built in the USA. By the the domestic content of a Mexican-built Ford Fusion is still 30% versus the Japanese built Toyota Prius at 0%.

  And GM alone employs more Americans than all foreign automakers combined; 40 percent of GM’s worldwide workforce is in the United States, compared to only 11 percent of Toyota’s.

  Chrysler employs about 83 workers for every 2,500 vehicles sold, Ford employs 80 and General Motors 71, according to the Washington-based Level Field Institute. By comparison, Toyota employs 33 American workers for every 2,500 cars sold.

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 5:06 PM, rdavis66 wrote:

  Where do the profits go? If the home office is Japan guess what.

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 5:25 PM, ryanalexanderson wrote:

  You want to keep Toyota's profits in the US? Well, the symbol is TM on the NYSE, and the yield is 4.5%. Go nuts and stock up!

  As the author said, it's a global industry. That includes owners as well as manufacturing. And management.

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 5:31 PM, elogan11 wrote:

  What do product planner, designer, product engineer, development engineer, manufacturing engineer, buyer, financial analyst, etc. all have in common? Answer: Jobs that are usually 80-90% located in the home country of the given company. What do you want your kids to be when they grow up?

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 5:53 PM, BrotherJimA wrote:

  I'm amazed by the lack of objectivity in this story and others about the US auto industry. There were two key points with which I took issue.

  1. Ford has 31 plants located in the United States (including assembly, engine, transmission, casting, etc.) versus 5 in Mexico that are building for the US market. In terms of assembly plants, there are 8 in the US and 2 in Mexico [1]. (The author’s point that Big 3 plants make up 50% of Mexican auto production is irrelevant – the relevant comparison should be production in Mexico for the US market versus production in the US).

  2. The author should have recognized that the Big 3 are international companies that produce vehicles for countries other than the US. The Big 3’s plants in Europe, Asia, Austalia, and South America build vehicles for those foreign markets. This is a GOOD thing, as these profits come back to a US corporation! (The author’s comment that I took issue with was "While Detroit is off building cars in Mexico (and South America, Europe, Asia, and elsewhere), Japanese carmakers are right here in the U.S. building cars and creating American jobs."

  1. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories)

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 7:14 PM, jdkrueger wrote:

  Why should we consider it a good thing if profits come back to US corporations who have consistently thrown money after ill-fated technologies? GM's CEO stated himself they have been bad stewards of their investment capital, failing to create products and technologies that stick with consumers and thereby failing to further economic growth from their profits. As globalization continues, the best allocation of profits will be to companies that turn those profits into successful technologies consumers value.

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 7:38 PM, yepdcxrox wrote:

  Well, Chrysler is building their new fuel efficent Pheonix v6 engines also in Kenosha Wisconsin and Trenton Michigan, with parts being machined in Kokomo Indiana and Toledo Ohio. The Pheonix is more American than anything Honyota builds here. It doesn't matter anyway, as long as the companys HQ is in the US (Detroit area) then the profits are back into our economy.

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 7:42 PM, elann wrote:

  http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=27297968

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 8:38 PM, parchisi wrote:

  This article is ridiculous.

  Question: Who employs more people in the US?

  Answer: The Big 3 by an overwhelming amount.

  If the big 3 go belly up, not only are the jobs of those workers affected, but so are those of all the suppliers. This would add up to a major hit to the US economy and further our economic recession. The job loss would be in the hundreds of thousands. The fact that import car manufacturers have a few plants in the US is trivial compared to this.

  Also, people cite that Toyota and Honda may be publicly traded stocks in the US...who cares. Are shareholders going to be losing their jobs?

  I'm usually the guy who defends free trade and globalism, but in this case the Big 3 don't have a chance between the UAW, the fact that import companies get propped up by their own countries, and uneducated people demonizing GM, Ford, and Chysler.

  Also, may I add, in case anybody wasn't aware or too lazy to figure out, FORD NEVER TOOK THE BAILOUT. And also regarding the corporate jet bugaboo, contrary to popular belief, CEO's actually do a lot of work as well as travel. Yes, they ditched the corporate jets to please the self righteous idiots in Washington, but they shouldn't have had to.

• Report this Comment On December 29, 2008, at 10:50 PM, jfgreen98 wrote:

  I agree with most of the responses that I have seen to this article. I think that the overall tone of this article is fairly outrageous.

  I will conceed the fact that the big three have taken their cosumer base for granted for the past 10 to 15 years or so and have fallen behind other automakers in quality, innovation, safety, etc. However, I don't wish to completely villify these companies as some want to do. There are many other factors that have contributed to the current problems that these companies are facing.

  The main thing that frustrates me is with all of the talk and hearings and articles on this subject is that you rairly hear anyone talk about the labor union problem. I am sorry but this is a huge problem and cannot be left out of any serious discussion about the current problems that these automakers are having. I am certain that I do not know all of the facts and there are two sides to every story but I am fairly certain that on the whole these unions are abusing there power and making it very difficult on the big three to remain competitive with foreign automakers. It's no wonder that Ford and others are seeking to assemble their cars in other contries. They can't afford to do it here anylonger. I know that when unions were started they were a very good thing and kept their members from being intimidated and taken advantage of but these days they are the ones taking advantage of the situation. I think they need to be careful or there may not be a big three to take advantage of much longer and then what are they all going to do?

  Then there is the argument from some that the big three need to build factories in other areas of the country and get away from the labor unions. I think that would be a great idea but that costs money and right now they don't exactly have a lot of that sitting around. You will notice that most of the factories that foreign automakers build are in the south. I wonder why this is?

  Don't get me wrong, I think that the employees of the big three need to be fairly compensated for a job well done but the key word here is "fair". I just find it amazing that someone turning a wrench on an assembly line can make tons more money than the educators of our children and that's just one example.

  Again, the big three are not perfect and definitely needed a wake up call and I think they have gotten it. I just hope for the sake of our economy and all their employees that it's not too late.

• Report this Comment On December 30, 2008, at 1:10 AM, F8tL8seF8l wrote:

  Yep, yet another mis-informed auto industry basher.

  Yes Ford has some plants in Mexico that make vehicles for the North American market. If you haven't noticed, Mexico is part of North America. And the Fusion was designed and engineered in the US.

  BTW, Mr. Duprey, Ford also has plants in Canada (also part of North America). Do you want to call them out for that?

  Not to mention that Ford's plants in South America make vehicles for South America. The plants in Europe make vehicles for Europe. And the plants in Australia make vehicles for Australia. Weird, huh?

• Report this Comment On December 30, 2008, at 6:48 AM, TMFCop wrote:

  First, thanks all for reading and commenting, but I think it should be pointed out that I'm not bashing the U.S. automakers by pointing out they make cars in various foreign markets. As a free market capitalist, I have no problems with this.

  The point I'm making is that we should not confuse the hoopla over Ford Fusion's fuel economy with saving "American" jobs as many commentators seemed to do when announcing the achievement.

  Yet what is more "American?" The Fusion built in Mexico or the Camry built in Kentucky? For those who say the Ford because it's headquartered here in the U.S., I'd bet the workers on the line at the KY plant would beg to differ.

  Even if the cars are built here, fewer than half of the parts of some car models are produced here in the U.S. The Camry though has 80% of its parts produced here in the U.S. Again, who is more "American?"

  So I wasn't trashing Ford (or GM or Chrysler) for building cars in Mexico, I was simply saying that the issue between the bailout, U.S. jobs, and Ford's achievement was being confused and we just need to be careful when reading about these issues not to do that.

  Once again, thanks for sharing your comments.

  Rich

• Report this Comment On December 30, 2008, at 7:05 AM, KWT8011 wrote:

  The argument for the auto bailout was that it wouldn't just affect the laborers at the Big Three, but millions of other American workers downstream as well (OEM, Dealerships, etc.) So isn't the converse true? If something goes well for Ford (the hybrid Fusion), than millions of other American workers benefit?

  I enjoyed your article.

• Report this Comment On December 30, 2008, at 7:28 AM, pvon2794 wrote:

  I am amazed at the seemingly endless bad press the American car companies get. They have been spanked by every corner of the globe because they couldnt do as well as the transplants, but maybe if we here had the same types of government assistance that they did the playing field would be a little different. Maybe a little government health care, or subsidies for technology, or a little illegal currency manipulation like they have enjoyed for years. We could even look into trade laws that are designed to benefit American workers,and American companies instead of laws that allow infinite numbers to be imported here but still block our exports because they would be an unfair burden on their domestic workers.

• Report this Comment On December 30, 2008, at 9:08 AM, doctorjasonb wrote:

  Why does Toyota manufacture in the South (Kentucky, Mississippi, etc...)? Is it because they can avoid the unions which have essentially bankrupted the American Automakers? Lets face it, its not top executives flying on private planes that have them in billions of dollars of debt...it's the extremely high price labor the unions forced them into.

• Report this Comment On December 30, 2008, at 11:50 AM, pstoneki wrote:

  I always have to laugh at these arguments about where the profits go. Who cares? If people really cared where profits went they would care about every industry, not just automotive. What about the profits for all the foreign made goods bought at WalMart? Best Buy? SEARS!?!?! The people who beat everyone up about buying American are the same folks who push class warfare / blue collar 'working man' arguments. Guess what - we'd have a lot more jobs in the US if you would quit buying underpriced foreign-made goods at Walmart and buy higher priced, American-made goods at your local Five and Dime or hardware store. Or buy food from a local CSA or farmers market that keeps your money in the local economy rather than food made God knows where laced with foreign made chemicals and transported via foreign pumped oil. Or buy a fuel efficient car that keeps our money in the US rather than the red-neck gas guzzling pickup truck to drive your suburban-living backside around in. Until you do that, your arguments are weak and irrelevant.

• Report this Comment On December 30, 2008, at 3:37 PM, RobertSF wrote:

  I think people are missing the larger picture here.

  The Ford Fusion Hybrid, despite where it is built, was developed in the U.S. by people making much more money than those working at any Ford or Toyota assembly plant. By buying a Ford Fusion Hybrid, you are supporting tens of thousands of white-collared jobs. I applaud Toyota for supporting blue-collared work, but, frankly, which do you want your kid to be when he grows up?

  But, if we choose to be fixated on blue-collar work, I take great exception with your bringing up the Prius, which, despite best intentions, won't be produced here until mid-to-late 2011 at the earliest. Yet, you fail to discuss the Escape Hybrid which was being built in Kansas City long before the Camry Hybrid got started in Kentucky. Ford makes 25,000 hybrids each year in the U.S., and it is possible that it will have more by the time the Prius plant is running.

  But right now, the Fusion is about 25-30% U.S. content and Prius is 0%. The Fusion was entirely engineered in the U.S. The Prius and Camry Hybrids were primarily engineered in Japan. Also, currently, Ford employs about 80 U.S. workers for every 2,500 cars sold. Toyota employs 33. The vast majority of those workers on Toyota's side are blue-collar. About 35-40% of Ford's are white-collar. So, yes, I would argue that by buying a Ford Fusion Hybrid, people are saving American jobs - and not just blue-collar work, but white-collar work that generates greater tax revenue through higher pay and benefits.

  But, as a free-marketer, I think the most interesting thing you should note is *why* the Fusion is built in Mexico. Yes, labor is cheaper. Yes, they got government tax breaks. But the biggest benefit is the ability to export that car anywhere in North OR South America. Currently, import duties on cars made in the U.S. but sold in Brazil are 15-20%. That's why the Fiesta will be built in Mexico as well. It's why Ford will have one assembly plant in Mexico making the next-gen Focus starting in 2010 (although there will be two in the U.S. for Focus and other related products).

  I ask that you please do thorough research before writing an article that insinuates factual inaccuracies. Ford has a great product in the Fusion Hybrid, and I think people should feel completely comfortable that they are helping our economy when they buy one.

  Sincerely,

  Robert

• Report this Comment On January 04, 2009, at 9:36 AM, johnst1001a wrote:

  If and when I buy a new car, which is not likely for another 5 years, I will definitely consider the hybrid, almost at any gasoline price. Hopefully plug ins will be available then.

  My hope is that Toyota improves the Camry Hybrid gas mileage by doing some of the same things as Ford has, and I bet they will. Ford will have a major advertising advantage now with this mileage, as they will claim more mileage than Camry.

  As for the manufacturing site, keeping jobs in the US, when I get to the point where I buy a car, I will look at this closely. more so than before. I am sure a lot will change in five years, who knows, by then the Fusion may be made in the US, or the Camry Hybrid might be made elsewhere. My goal will be to maximize the amount of money we keep in the US, both in manufacturing as well as gasoline money.

• Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 10:31 AM, dw69129 wrote:

  I own two 1992 Honda Civic VX hatchbacks. These wonderful cars have been trouble free for more than 200000 miles and have EPA estimated highway mileage of 55 MPG which they easily attain. With no stupid trunk full of batteries. They have high gears and more than enough power to pass most anything on the road. Why on Earth would I want to step back 50 years and buy a car that only gets 41 and has a nightmare of batteries on board? Honda stopped making these cars in 1995 because not enough sold. They sold for $10600 and both of mine have paid for themselves at least 4 times over. Bring them back and forget this hybrid crap.

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