Don't Try to Con Continental

• Report this Comment On May 28, 2009, at 12:58 AM, thedofca100 wrote:

  Really. What you take from this tragic story is "Think before you con" And you have the nerve to call it the "wages of sin"?

  Why is it always that if management steals your money that's perfectly honest but if you try to get your money yourself, you're a thief, a cheat, and stealing your brothers' pensions. What a load.

  If these guys had any guts they'd fight this and they would win. After 39 years of safely flying passengers for UAL my husband had his pension of $138,000 a year- which is apparently lavish by your standards - stolen by the bk courts who then gave it to the management when they exited bk. PBGC now gives us a joke of $36,000. There are United Flight Attendants who get a bigger pension than my husband. I'm sure your coffee was hot and your coke cold, but when the tire blew on take-off in Australia it wasn't the flight attendant that kept it from becoming a tragedy like the SST in Europe. It was my husband who now gets less than the F.A. You are beginning to reap what you've sown with the accident earlier this year from a co-pilot earning $16,000 a year and a doofus Capt earning $56,000. No one of any caliber would take on the responsiblity of keeping hundreds of people alive for that kind of money. My husband rues the day he took his first flight lesson and he loved to fly until the day he was forced to retire. Personally, I wish a few of these pilots would allow a few minor accidents with only a death or two in the back so people might appreciate what they could be worth. Believe me, no matter what you want to think, they aren't bus drivers. ill-gotten loot my a__.

• Report this Comment On May 28, 2009, at 9:04 AM, motodad93 wrote:

  I agree with thedofca100. These are not ill-gotten gains. This money belongs to the pilots. It was promised to them and it was earned by them. Just like the article says, the retirement accounts were in lieu of higher salaries. In any event it DOES NOT belong to Continental. They merely manage the plan for the pilots.

  In the past, upon termination of a retirement plan that a company feels it can no longer afford, respectable companies would fund the plans in full and pay out everything owed to date. Continental is far from a respectable company and that will never happen. It's my guess that the courts will not want to get into the business of trying to decide who loves who during what time period and decides the cases against Continental and for the pilots. Then there will be suits for wrongful termination and damages on top of back salaries. Continental will have a hard time showing any damages since they are never supposed to be able to get their grubby paws on that money anyway.

  Good luck pilots!

• Report this Comment On May 28, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Big50Shooter wrote:

  "After 39 years of safely flying passengers for UAL my husband had his pension of $138,000 a year- which is apparently lavish by your standards...".

  thedofca, I own my own company which does about 4 Mil./year in sales, and I WOULD call $138,000/year in retirement pretty "lavish", especially considering the hours that pilots put in (what is it, one week "on" one week "off" type of schedule? Essentially "part time" compared to my 50-60hours/week for at least 51 weeks of the year!).

  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate airline pilots, I have a friend who flies for a major airline, but pilots are not "undercompensated" by any means....

  BTW, I don't disagree with what the Continental 9 did in this article either, they were just incredibly stupid to get remarried so fast as to make it obvious... Good piloting skills doesn't necessarily make you "smart" I guess huh?

• Report this Comment On May 28, 2009, at 3:41 PM, 767ac wrote:

  "especially considering the hours that pilots put in (what is it, one week "on" one week "off" type of schedule? Essentially "part time" compared to my 50-60hours/week for at least 51 weeks of the year!)."

  I'm a pilot for united airlines: I wouldn't say we're part time employees by any stretch. We work up to 16 hours/day. Very seldom is it less than 8 hours/day and I am gone away from home more than half the month about 17 days or so. The more junior pilots are gone about 20 days/month.

  I would agree that the $138,000/yr in the defined benefit retirement pension is on the high side of relativity, but that was what the deal was. I will now be getting about $10,000/yr if I hang on until 65 years of age, and only if the PBGC is still around (it is currently underfunded by about 7 Billion $$).

  It's not that [we] pilots are not willing to sacrifice for our company when needed, but after our pig of a CEO stole our pension in BK and forced a 40% pay cut with a 7 yr contract, which will be extended to at least 9 yrs under "negotiations," upon us under the auspices of "shared reward shared sacrifice:" it's a little hard to stomach when the only ones getting rewarded are the CEO and his pals. This jerk made 39,7 million dollars in 2007 and just received a 19% pay raise for 2009. These clowns haven't made 2 cents for this company, the stock price is about to go below $4.00/share and they lost 1.1 Billion dollars betting on fuel when oil was $120/barrel last year.

  Here's the point: there's a misconception that all commercial pilots are making over $200,000/yr and never work. The reality is that this is fiction and more and more or our flying is being outsourced to regional (commuters) and various sub-par international carriers where the salaries are extremely low; as mentioned above. The quality of person that is deciding to take the long and arduous journey of becoming a major airline pilot is no longer the person you or anyone else wants to have flying you around and making the types of decisions that have to be made to safely get you to your destination.

  Our management would love for all of us to be making what these folks on the continental express plane were making, and understand that there will be plenty of people standing in line to be a captain at a major airline for $56,000/yr. The question is, do you want them taking you home today?

  Unless our careers are restored and we get some sort of corporate governance that prevents these scum of the earth CEO's from using our companies as their own personal ATM's, there will be fewer and fewer "Sully" Sullenbergers and many more that we will see who are under trained and ill-suited for this job. The people you want flying your plane are now becoming delivery room doctors who make over $400,000/yr or lawyers who make over $1,000,000/yr or entrepreneurs starting their own companies like you where who knows how much you can make.

  So it really doesn't matter if you consider what we used to have as a retirement "lavish," or if you think that we are not "undercompensated" now does it?

  Andy

• Report this Comment On May 30, 2009, at 10:10 PM, calpilot07 wrote:

  I read your recent coverage, and cover headline about the 9 pilots from Continental Airlines (CAL) alleged to have commit fraud to get their retirement payouts and continue to be able to maintain their seniority and continue to fly at CAL.

  There is much needed history in this story. This extends to where the real fraud began, prior to even my time at CAL. Let me be clear that this is still recent history, and I having been hired since the freezing of the Pilot’s Retirement Fund by Contract 02, do not have any money in the fund.

  Princeton’s dictionary definition of “Fraud”

  · intentional deception resulting in injury to another person

  · imposter: a person who makes deceitful pretenses

  · something intended to deceive; deliberate trickery intended to gain an advantage

  In short, CAL intentionally duped the pilots and its union into believing they were on the cusp of bankruptcy, gave a fake date that required all work groups to make concessions, or bk would happen. CAL supplied data to support this assertion and gave a dollar amount of concessions that had to happen in order to stay out of bk.

  The pilots took concessions, Contract 02, unprecedented by any other CAL workgroup or any other peer group airline in the industry. Allowing the total destruction of pilots pay, work rules and retirement, CAL thrived (even though all work groups did not agree to the required concessions) and did not enter bk. CAL posted profit levels that trumped the concession amounts. In the highly profitable years to follow, CAL management rewarded itself in due with industry leading raises, bonuses, and pay structure.

  Nothing has changed to this day. We continue to work under this draconian contract, that was adopted on fraudulous assertions of looming bankruptcy. There has been further degradation however of the conditions for pilots. Just recently, CAL laid off 147 pilots, while overworking and bullying the remaining pilots to try and fly the demanding schedule, and upcoming summer.

  Remember the frozen Retirement Fund? Well the pilots whom have their retirement monies tied up in the fund have received countless threats that the current underfunding by CAL may result in the loss of the lump sum payout option. As of yet the threat has been idled with a last minute deposit to the legal minimum required. Also, the pilots plan was funded on a standard 7 yr funding plan, but was let slide out to the a 17yr funding schedule!! Guess whose retirement plan has remained unchanged and fully funded, CAL managements!

  So that is the environment we CAL pilots have to endure. Operating planes with the worst work rules in the industry with CAL management constantly breathing down our necks looking for more more more. Meanwhile, senior pilots are constantly made to fear the impending, potential loss of substantial amounts of retirement money, and the lump sum option.

  I do not condone what the pilots are alleged to have done. Especially the fact that these pilots all share a “me first attitude” and have maintained an entitlement attitude since the day they were hired (see hire dates/history of pilots in question.) However, this is a matter of CAL’s continuous fear mongering on all of its pilots, based on its own fraudulous assertions over the years, and continued mal-practice.

  I am sorry my union did not make this information available to you when you were researching your story for print. If they did, shame on you for not giving the whole story and only a juicy headline. What the pilots in question did, if in fact found to be true, resorted back to a survival instinct. They have been beat down and wanted to exploit a loop hole to get their money before CAL once again holds it hostage from them. The problem is more internal with the pilots. I have my opinion that we should pay out the fund right now and get these pilots a percentage payout of the fund money based on years of service and proximity to retirement. One less thing your pilot will have to worry about while insuring your safety on every flight, all the way to retirement.

  Sincerely,

  CAL Pilot

• Report this Comment On May 30, 2009, at 10:32 PM, calpilot07 wrote:

  Sorry, the above response was originally to the Houston Chronicle. I actually really like your article.

  Just to add, CAL mgt is always looking for loopholes in the contract with its pilots. Sometimes showing intentional disregard and taking a "just grieve it" attitude.

  You point out $900,000 and some call that lavish. I am not a financial planner, nor do I have a single dime in the CAL retirement plan, just a 401k. When we all started flying we knew the mandatory retirement age for pilots was age 60. When I sat down to figure out how much to save, I was floored! Medical expenses alone! Heaven for bid you live to 90 and need other final expenses.

  Fact of the matter is CAL (whom put out all this data) likes to point to the highest amount any one pilot has in the fund, $900k. After 35+ years of dedicated service. Just as a previous poster pointed out his neighbor pilot hardly worked, and lived comfortably. Yep everyone points to the top. Did you know mt W2 for my first year at CAL was $28000. I had 12 days off a month (works out to 7 days at my own home) while my perdiem showed i averaged 360hrs per month working... mind you being paid only for my 76 flight hours.

  So CAL, and the media, likes to point to the top and i just showed you my reality at the bottom (and mind you no pension plan at all, or health benefits for the first 6 months.)

• Report this Comment On June 02, 2009, at 2:23 PM, 777JetMech wrote:

  Towards the end of the United Airlines ESOP, a few mechanics were able to cash out their worthless ESOP stock before it went belly up. They also split up, cashed out and remarried.

  I see a pension as wages already earned. It was part of your pay. Why does the company feel they have the right to it just because the company retains control over it?

  It B.S.

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