Wait! Boeing's Union Said What?

Striking workers of the International Association of Machinists, c. 1922. Source: Wikimedia Commons.

Boeing's (NYSE: BA  ) labor negotiations took a turn for the surreal Monday.

Last month, as you may recall, Boeing's biggest labor union, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, or IAMAW, District 751, District W-24, voted down a deal to renew and extend its labor contract -- voting 2-to-1 against. Boeing had offered to guarantee union members jobs building its new 777X airliner in Seattle for a decade and longer. But Boeing wanted something in exchange: Union members would need to give up their system of guaranteed pensions for life forever and agree to a series of minimal wage raises -- about 1% per year, every other year (plus minor cost-of-living tweaks).

The union said no.

Weeks later, Boeing returned to the bargaining table with a new offer featuring another $5,000 bonus, on top of $10,000 already offered (albeit six years from now), plus improved dental coverage, and it asked union management to recommend that contract to its members. That's when things got weird.

Big trouble with Big Labor
On one hand, local union reps didn't like Boeing's offer at all. Equating a "yes" vote on the offer as "giving away pensions, health care, and future wage growth for 10 long years," they accuse Boeing of offering little more than "economic destruction ... for the next 11 years -- without any opportunity to change those economic proposals or any other provision of the contract."

Needless to say, they're "adamantly recommending members reject this offer."

At the same time, though, Boeing has reached out to the union's top management (which District 751 refers to simply as "the International"), and asked them to call a vote on the contract anyway. Now, International President R. Thomas Buffenbarger -- the same R. Thomas Buffenbarger who in 2008 tried to bleed Boeing's bank account dry with a two-month-long strike -- thinks the locals should give Boeing a listen. On Monday, he set a Jan. 3 date for the vote.



IAM President R. Thomas Buffenbarger. Boeing's best friend? Source: Wikimedia Commons.

Now what?
District 751 decries this date as anti-Christmas, saying it's forcing union members to "spend your holidays studying and debating a concessionary proposal that is largely unchanged from the one you rejected by a 2-to-1 margin on Nov. 13." However, "there is no stopping the vote," says District 751, and so the vote will go on.

It's hard to see why. Boeing hasn't improved its original offer very much, after all. The union hasn't asked for improvements in the company's 401(k) proposal, either. And if the prospect of seeing 777X jobs going to rival workers in South Carolina, or elsewhere, didn't sway IAM members in November, it's hard to imagine that six weeks have changed their minds much.

My hunch: The Jan. 3 vote will look a whole lot like the one on Nov. 14 -- and this process will continue to drag on further into 2014.

Boeing wants your pension. Don't let it ruin your retirement
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  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 8:27 PM, PugetLine wrote:

    I am in the middle of this drama. There are important improvements. The commitment to build the 737 Max here is extended, the current pay step increase is retained as well as what was mentioned. The first vote was accomplished with very little notice. The probable impact to the individuals and community have come into focus over the p*****g contest between the company, the local, and the international. At this point the union is broken, the only way to heal is to accept the contract and enjoy a decade of stability as Boeing gets recommitted to the Puget Sound. Vote it down and the will be no union without union work here to do. ps. the 401K offer is actually sweet for those already on the payroll.

  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 10:29 PM, jdlech wrote:

    A decade of stability? At 1%, it's more like a decade of wage erosion. Gas went from $1.25 to $3.00 in the last 10 years. Do you really think a 1% raise is going to keep up? If you do, you're an idjit.

  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 10:35 PM, Cuencanolenny wrote:

    To say "the 737MAX here is extended" is disingenuous. The amount of money that Boeing has pumped into the Renton site to ramp up to 42 a month starting in January and then seamlessly transition to the MAX is large. There is no realistic way to move that to another location. To do so would be to cut off one's nose to spite their face. These concessions the company is asking for do not reflect the will or desire of local managers in any way, shape or form. This offer of extension should be rebuked and those states salivating over the prospect of having to deal with this kind of blackmail and underhanded business tactic should ask themselves just exactly what kind of prostitute they want to appear to be to their citizens.

  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 10:55 PM, bugmenot wrote:

    Boeing moves to a employer friendly state that wants to reduce unemployment and retain or gain a better middle class. Seattle has diversified their corporate tax base and brought in diverse employers. The IAM will destroy jobs for all of its members as Boeing moves everything away from the fools.

  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 11:02 PM, ScamuelJones wrote:

    Dear Moron Boeing Machinists,

    Wave bye-bye! Watch all jobs move out of Washington and Oregon and move on down to South Carolina!

  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 11:03 PM, skimeister wrote:

    FYI - the 401K the engineers signed up for generates 40% LESS than the defined benefit pension; Boeing wants the IAM to drink the same magic potion.

    This is the ethics of corporate bribery, everyone else is doing it excuse.

  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 11:09 PM, DWL08 wrote:

    I've got an idea for Boeing. Take your jobs overseas like all the other companies are doing. Even our government did after buying or taking over Chrysler the government sold it to a business located in a foreign country. Effectively moving its profit center to overseas. And I'm sure more and more of their production there as well. Then how smart will these union leaders be? People we better wake up and realize we can only demand so much before the company takes flight out of the US.

  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 11:17 PM, fingerlakes54 wrote:

    Maybe the skilled employees should ban together and offer there skills enmass to another aviation company. Then Boeing could get new help and make canning jars.

  • Report this Comment On December 23, 2013, at 11:51 PM, Shoutout wrote:

    Boeing, please don't relocate to my state. We can't afford you.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 12:02 AM, avigeant83 wrote:

    The 401k plan looks nice to you? My union gave up on the pensions and now we have a thing called "RISP" So we get a few bucks thrown into our 401ks every paycheck. I rather have the old pension plan that the company use to offer. Also 1% raises for a decade??!? Imagine making the same money you're making now that you did a decade ago. Really people, Boeing makes great profit. There is no excuse outside of greed.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 12:06 AM, kdavis860 wrote:

    The economy would work better overall if people would work at a price determined by supply=demand, and you don't need a union to do that. In fact, we need to avoid unions. We also need to avoid handouts, which should include carefully checking whether people applying for SS disability really are disabled or just faking it.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 12:29 AM, jobe wrote:

    so i guess no job is better than no job? great union mentality

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 12:30 AM, Huksaolaoder wrote:

    I vote "YES" and many of my coworkers as well. This is the new generation and job stabilization is the key.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 12:49 AM, peaka wrote:

    I feel really bad for all the generations of workers this local has now put in the bread lines. welcome to the new Detroit lol come east Boeing. we have hundreds of thousands of workers who without a second guess can cut your cost in half, that is a fact. Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana have really well skilled machinist, engineers, and the empty plants to put your ideas to work in! Indiana alone has 120,000 out of work machinist. I have heard the unemployed engineers in Ohio are around 13,000. come and check us out and give us a chance to show you what we can do to make YOUR dreams and corporate aspirations come true!!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 1:56 AM, CrazyDocAl wrote:

    Maybe the union could bring in motivational speakers that help the union workers that once made Twinkies.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 2:27 AM, suckair wrote:

    Bye bye Boeing have a good time with your bonuses. Hope you can find place where you they serve your bonuses on a silver platter. BYE!! do not look back.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 3:48 AM, Huck70 wrote:

    Unions are like dinosaurs; way past their time.... while they protected workers before, they have become corrupt and a tool for the leaders to get rich!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 4:27 AM, hagar2935 wrote:

    Unions are taking their last gasps........ their death is LONG overdue. Boeing should just say goodbye to the Liberal lala land of Washington & Oregon and relocate all their operations to right-to-work states and overseas.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 4:55 AM, Heavyhoister wrote:

    I can't wait to see the look on Mr.Clark of United Emirates face when Boeing announces that the new 777X designed for them will be built in SC. You will be able to hear a pin drop after that statement. Maybe they can work on a 5 year delay instead of three.SC has produced 14 planes out of 154 & 4 are sitting at Pane field not very profitable.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 5:41 AM, selfmadepoor wrote:

    So if they are not happy with the deal, why not find another job that offers better. Everyone can agree anyone working for Boeing is not struggling to put food on the table, join Spain, Portugal, Ireland it may be sooner than you think.........

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 6:05 AM, fujidan wrote:

    The IAM union president has probably been bought by Boeing. I have seen union leadership bought before.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 6:37 AM, mpapile wrote:

    Inflation is 2-3% annually compounding. Boeing right now is having no problem making money. Paying their employees 1% increase every other year works out to them making 30% less 10 years from now. That is a raw deal.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 7:43 AM, Exbaker wrote:

    Ask the hostess brands bakers how they are spending their pay checks. Oh, they aren't, they don't have paychecks. They would not accept concessions to help the company and now most still don't have a job. Same could happen to you fools. Read the news if you can and realize the job market is not very good. And with no college education you people can try and get a job at McDonalds.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 7:52 AM, ce185 wrote:

    Have all you union haters ever thought that maybe, just maybe, the union position is right every once in a while? It's amazing how the non-unionized American worker has let the economic crisis (created by some of our wealthiest financial genius "wizards") turn them against fellow working men and women. Corporations are doing very well and they love those of you who backbite and moan with a victim mentality- "What can you do?" "You're lucky you have jobs." "Ask for anything and they'll move overseas." You understand nothing about good faith bargaining. You will spend your lives grabbing your ankles and aying, "Thank you sir; may I have another?"

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 7:54 AM, charlieq3 wrote:

    I was once a Boeing employee in Lake Charles, La. The Union there never did much for the working people. When we rejected their offer they left town along with their low wages and all the nice big hangers the State built for them to bring their jobs to La. I was making $8.50 hr. as a Landing Gear Mechanic on the KC-135 PDM contract in 1991 . Boeing representatives called a meeting for all employees in one of the hangers and announced they were leaving Lake Charles and all the employees started clapping their hands and cheering as there was now hope a better paying Aircraft company would now come to Lake Charles. A couple years later Grumman came to town and later became Northrop Grumman. They paid well but had a big lay-off in 2005. They are still paying well but ended the pension plan for new hires from what I heard. They also use to furnish health Insurance at no cost for employees with 10 years of service or more but also stop that in the 90's. I am now working as a Correctional Officer for $10.50 hr. with no pension and rather be working for $25 hr. with no pension as maybe the case for Boeing employees. Seems to be a trend with big aircraft companies no days to take pensions away which I don't agree with but its happening. I am 60 years old and living off my small pension from Grumman and my low paying job to make ends meet. With that said I think Boeing employees are better off with a good paying job with no pension offers than no jobs at all.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 7:55 AM, Retiree wrote:

    As a non union Boeing retiree, from MDAC era, who has gone through the retirement system change as proposed by Boeing ( without choice), the change has been dramatic financially. After 19 years in the defined benefit plan, then 10 years in the defined contribution plan, it is estimated that my retirement income is approximately less by $500 to $700 per month because of the change.

    The union workers are right, but they may lose either way because of a possible loss of jobs.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Huksaolaoder wrote:

    For all new generations we need to vote ""YES"". Forget about the past, if we need "JOB" and we want it here in Everett. Our past timer union will not help pay our mortgage if we lose our job. Can't wait to get deal don..,,

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 8:45 AM, scipiojr wrote:

    I would guess Boeing has a real problem here, because there's a major shortage of machinists in the US right now. Despite some of the comments on here I don't think it would be easy for Boeing to just up and move to SC or my state of MO which made a recent offer to them. I would also guess most machinists would not want to work in a right-to-work state?

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 9:24 AM, Jackster wrote:

    As for those people that think unions are dinosaurs, This economy of the US was it's strongest when unions were powerful.

    When you say good bye to unions,

    Remember to also say hello to hunger

    games.

    Greedy American Companies.

    Wiping out the middle class

    one union at a time.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 9:49 AM, rbreau1 wrote:

    Companies like Boeing that have a product with world-wide demand should move to other countries like Philippines, Taiwan, China, and South America.

    Possible that even Mexico may be better in the long run than the US but the point is to have a basket of production locations and not be dependent on the US unions.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 9:54 AM, rbreau1 wrote:

    The unions were 22% of the workers in the 70s and it was not a strong economy. By several measures it was worse from 1970 to 1982 than today but the media refers to the 2008 recession as the worse since the 1930s.

    Unions were never good for the country even when working conditions were depressing. The last thing the unions helped do was get a 40 hour work week in the 1940s.

    Now unions, working with the democrats, are the primary reason for the dumbing down of our public schools and the flight of much of our manufacturing.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 10:10 AM, BubbleBoy wrote:

    And they wonder why companies take their jobs overseas. Have fun working at Walmart.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 10:11 AM, restlessnative wrote:

    The comments about Hostess and the unions are absolutely ridiculous; workers and the unions gave Hostess numerous concessions (wage cuts, etc...) throughout years of contracts while the corporate management was bleeding that company dry, to include illegally looting the pension money put aside for the workers. If you give up your pension for a 401K plan you're losing money, and anyone who thinks a 1% raise is generous from a global wealthy corporation like Boeing is a fool, and not a Motley one at that.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Stevegarry22 wrote:

    What Boeing should do is tell the union to P up a rope, shut down the Washington plant and move to South Carolina! These unions are destroying America!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Hawk1 wrote:

    Several key issues are being ignored. The 1% pay raise is in addition to a previously negotiated COLA, something which the IAM enjoys and no one else at Boeing gets. Also, the IAM already has a 401K and a defined defined plan. The new 401K is intended to be a substitute for future deposits to a defined benefit plan. Everyone voting on this contract gets to keep the defined benefit they already have. I believe the company wants to avoid strikes every three years. Typically Boeing strikes recently have coincidentally taken place at the beginning of hunting season and are settled just before the holiday breaks. Coincidence? The 2008 strike caused several long term domestic customers to start talking to Airbus.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 10:46 AM, devoish wrote:

    Maybe it is time to pay employees with cash and benefits instead of investors with stock buybacks.

    I do not know that there is shorter and more detailed discussion of the benefits - but it is not on the news or here. Until now.

    Leadership Letter Recommends Reject - Dec. 23, 2013

    Click here to view pdf version of letter.

    Dear Brothers and Sisters:

    If you have not already heard, we want to let you know that the International is forcing a vote on Boeing’s latest proposal on January 3, 2014.

    Due to the massive takeaways, your District 751 leadership is united with a recommendation that you reject this proposal. You need to look at the facts of the economic destruction you would have to live under for the next 11 years, without any opportunity to change any provisions of the contract.

    We also want to point out that Boeing’s ultimatum demanding these concessions comes at a time when the company is experiencing record profits and backlogs, not to mention the $10 billion stock buy back the Boeing Board of Directors approved just this last week.

    Here are some of the major objections we have to the Boeing proposal:

    • There’s no clear statement of work, and the language in the Boeing proposal clearly states that the company reserves the right to subcontract or outsource “certain 777X work packages in whole or part.”

    • Boeing leaders have told us they do not intend to use any of our current wing line mechanics to do 777X wing work, which will directly affect all of you who build wings.

    • Boeing’s proposals on pay and benefits will mean decreases in your takehome pay. Your monthly health care premiums will go up at least 10 percent each year, while you’ll see guaranteed wage increases (GWI) averaging only 0.5 percent from 2016 to 2024. (Specifically the proposal calls for 1 percent raises in 2016, 2018, 2020 and 2023.)

    • For a Machinist earning $30 an hour today, that average 0.5 percent GWI will amount to 15 cents an hour- or roughly $300 a year. Our average wage today is $29 an hour.

    • The company’s proposal also lets it lower future health care benefits without negotiations so that Boeing can avoid any potential excise taxes under the Affordable Care Act - or “Obamacare.”

    The proposal to freeze current pensions and eliminate them for new Machinists will create problems for those of us working at Boeing today, those who are about to retire and the new members who will join us in the future.

    • If you are at maximum pay today, Boeing’s contributions to your retirement would decrease by two-thirds under this proposal. If you are in progression, the losses will be more significant.

    • If the pension were to be frozen, Boeing would have the option to make dramatic changes to the pension that would put both current and future retirees at risk.

    Finally, the proposal would lock in place all other provisions of our current contract until 2024. There will be no opportunity to negotiate changes to benefit you for nearly 11 years. That includes pay for new hires. By 2024, we estimate that more than 2,000 jobs at Boeing - all of the Grade A, Grade 1 and Grade 2 - will have entry-level pay at minimum wage, while entry-level pay for Grade 3s will be only a few cents above it.

    On January 3, 2014, you will cast a vote that will decide the future for not only yourself and your co-workers, but also future generations of Machinists at Boeing and thousands of retirees. This union has a long tradition of standing up for what is right for working people. All of us today enjoy pay and benefits made possible only because our members have always stood together in solidarity and, when required, made sacrifices on the picket line.

    We all understand Boeing may make the decision to locate the 777X outside of Washington, but doing that has nothing to do with our level of pay and benefits. We are faced then with a choice to destroy everything that we have built over 78 years in order to save Boeing from making a decision that puts the future of the company, all it’s employees (Union and non-union alike) and the stockholders at risk. If the company chooses this path of destruction, then they are responsible for it. We, as union members, do not have control over it and have a contract in place through 2016. The customer, the analysts and all of us know this is the best place to build the 777X and stand ready to do that, whether or not this proposal is rejected or ratified.

    This destructive proposal will hurt current and future Machinists at Boeing, our families and our communities. This is why we are urging you to reject this proposal from the Boeing Co.

    In solidarity,

    lAM District 751 Leadership Team

    For specific information on the proposal and a comparison/analysis, see below.

    NOTE: Recognizing that many of our members are on approved vacation and out of the area on the voting day of January 3rd, District 751 got the International President to grant authority a one-time absentee ballot process on a contract vote. We are currently developing an absentee ballot process and refining the details. Check the website www.iam751.org for instructions on how to obtain an absentee ballot. These are extraordinary times and our goal is to ensure that every member gets an opportunity to vote.

    Best wishes, and Happy New Year to all,

    Steven

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Chicagojoe7132 wrote:

    Hold the press here! Lets back up a little. All this talk and very few numbers.

    Lets start with what is the average pay for a union worker at Boeing? This is critical to the discussion.

    What would the average pay be in S.C or Ohio or Indiana?

    Third, what is the union dues being collected from each employee?

    Last, what would the effect be on the stock price if the contract is voted down?

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 11:59 AM, poodleman wrote:

    union bashers take note!!there are two types of unions, labor unions and the white collar unions mostly known as big business or corporations. the corporate unions. the white collar union reps(ceo"s,) of many companies, banks, chamber of com., meet and conspire, agreeing to use tactics against their employees, such as conquer & divide by whipsawing plant against plant, state against state as they are now, trying to get the taxpayers to anti up and give them land, put in their infrastructure, etc. only to move their operations when these tax breaks expire not paying any corporate or state taxes while they were there.(ge?) where i worked in the auto industry they moved production to a right to work state only to leave after tax breaks expired to mexico. in the meantime the white collar union members collected enormous salaries , benefits, pensions, stock options, etc. in the millions of $$. even if they didn't succeed they got millions of $$ to leave or retire. but let the working labor union man makes $20 per hr. x 2000 hrs per yr. or $40,000 OH MY GOD< WEVE GOT TO MOVE. time to man up. sure we need jobs but you also need to draw a line somewhere. greedy white collar unions have billions in their coffers and still want total control. soon will tell you how many children to have, how much you can eat, how far you can drive.already take theirs first out of my check, i get whats left after they decide how much they want. sorry, don't agree with everything the labor unions do but they are the only voice for the middle class and i support them.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 12:16 PM, dward wrote:

    Tell the unions to take a hike! They are so greedy and do not appreciate what they have. It's time for them to go.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 12:21 PM, vonwilliams wrote:

    It's not just about the union pay and benefits, it's the work rules as well that stymie productivity. What US companies and the unions need to remind themselves about is that we compete in a worldwide economy, like it or not. If we can't be competitive with our manufactured products then we will get killed by the Chinese and other low cost countries. The Boeing Union is being very short sighted with their vote and I am with Boeing 100% in looking at other alternatives.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 12:45 PM, mkkms wrote:

    Well Congress passed a 2 year budget agreement that strips military retirees and medically retired soldiers and sailors of 1% per year of their wage increases. Why all the silence about that? For an E7 retiree that would means a loss of 10% over 10 years! That is a lot of money the gubment is stealing from men and women who stuck it out until retirement and now they're getting their reward for all their sacrifices.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 1:22 PM, bittleman wrote:

    The quickest way to bankrupt a company and put workers out of a job are Unions! I have a very good friend that works at Boeing that got laid off last week because of his Union. They pushed Boeing so hard and demanded unreasonable requests that Boeing simply turned around and moved the jobs out of Washington State.

    Unions should be abolished. They were originally formed when we didn't have adequate labor laws in place to protect workers. Now we do. Union bosses are overpaid bullies that do nothing for their members, apart from ensuring unemployment! Most recently, the Hostess company was a prime example of Union destruction!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 1:31 PM, snapcap wrote:

    I think everyone here recognizes that it takes both labor and management to make a company strong and competitive. It would certainly by more constructive to both sides of this issue if there was less acrimonious talk and name calling. The representatives of the workers need to recognize the wishes of the majority and negotiate in good faith. Be wise.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 1:32 PM, drgroup wrote:

    Bring in the cheap Mexican labor right thru CA and replace every whiny overpaid union worker. Your lucky to have a well paying job with a blue ribbon company. WA is turning into the socialist armpit of the country....

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 1:40 PM, SkepikI wrote:

    Just out of curiosity can one of the line workers at the "Lazy B Ranch" tell me how many of the "Local Officials" and the "International Officials" of your union actually work at Production Jobs and what their average compensation is?

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 2:07 PM, decoul1951 wrote:

    The stinky unions are at it again. Their goal is to drive Boeing out of business like they did to Detroit and Hostess brands. Don't these clowns ever learn their lesson from history? I urge Boeing to close down that plant and move to South Carolina where the business climate is friendlier. In my judgement, unions have outlived their usefulness and they should be abolished. They have turned into the scum of the earth.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 2:46 PM, drgroup wrote:

    The unions are kept alive so the organizers, and officers can live like kings off the sweat of the rank and file honest, hard working members. They serve a secondary purpose of spreading the socialist/communist propaganda given to them by the government. thirdly, they are used as thugs to harasse voters at the polls. The last thing they care about is the rank and file...

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 3:13 PM, Roeman wrote:

    Please vote no!!!!!! We need your jobs here in Utah!!!! I was at the Kansas plant when we voted no to a Boeing contract. What happened?? Plant gone. As they showed with their corporate office move to Chicago, they are not afraid to shut down and move. You can all start growing dope for a living now that it's legal.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Roeman wrote:

    We want you jobs it Utah fools. Vote no!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 3:24 PM, dwduke wrote:

    Wow! I am glad I'm not in a union. Holy cow is that a mess. Just work, spend less and get by. Don't go out and buy those Harley's, hot rods, boats, jet skis, cottages, and trips. Be like the rest of America and get by. Sure the corporations are making more profits by keeping wages and benefits low as well as eliminating them and the income is going more to Boeing and thus higher profits and the elite wealthy are getting wealthier off this. The auto industry, agricultural implement industry, steel industry, Harley Davidson, railroads, and other former good paying jobs are not that way anymore. So get use to it.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Jagermikester wrote:

    Scamuel jones you are a fool to think Boeing will take it to South Carolina they can barely do 787's ! Everett plant pumps out a 777 every three days takes South Carolina over a month to do one 787

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 3:34 PM, comosichiam wrote:

    Unions had a place but no longer especially the government unions who the democrat icon FDR said no government employees should ever be allowed to unionize. Look around see what havoc the local state and federal unions have caused also the vast majority of their pensions are in deep trouble because of the liberal democrats giving the unions everything they wanted now someone has to pay the piper.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 3:40 PM, saturn617 wrote:

    The Boieng offer is a cleverly worded way to cut workers pay. Teachers and support staff in different states have foregone wage increases thinking they were helping preserve jobs and pensions only to be broadsided by management demanding more and more concessions. Unions stick to your guns get the long-term contract but with the option to improve benefits as conditions warrant. Stay strong.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 3:55 PM, boyerfly wrote:

    Greedy workers, You can teach a monkey to do your job and 6 figures isn't enough. Gee, I do see why America is failing. Thanks

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 5:02 PM, clinepo wrote:

    unions are good for the us economy,pay more taxes than people making 10x as much as they do, able to educate their children, wife stay home raise the children the way they should be, no welfare payment from the government, no public housing. Also able to buy durable goods that keep others working. But on the other side of the coin we need to get back to the threshold of unionism, we will do more work, better quality work,for better pay and benefits.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 5:04 PM, clinepo wrote:

    Companys should do a better job of screening their workers,some they hire are to say the least risky from to get go.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 5:15 PM, KIMK wrote:

    I guess Buffy and his Buddies have been spooked and are now adhering to Animal Farm ( some of us ARE more equal than others )

    1) http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/volun_agree_2013.htm

    On August 15, 2013, the Department entered into a voluntary compliance agreement with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), located in Upper Marlboro, Md., concerning the 2013 election of international officers. The IAM agreed to conduct new nominations and a new election, if necessary, for the offices of international president, general secretary-treasurer and eight general vice presidents under OLMS supervision prior to June 2014. The investigation disclosed that the union failed to provide notice of nomination to the membership regarding the nomination of international officers, local lodges did not provide notice of their nomination meetings to all members, and members were denied a reasonable opportunity to nominate candidates when some members were working at the time of the nomination meeting and/or endorsement vote and no alternative method of nomination was provided. The agreement follows an investigation by the OLMS Washington District Office.

    ** they now must hold the FIRST election in 4 or 5 decades in accordance with the rules. Nominations start in about a month, and WSJ had an article about the ( NOW) ex vice pres who got tired of the expensive trips, etc and decided to run against him.

    2) It was only a few months ago Buffy testified before congress about PRESERVING ( his ) Pension above All else. Now he demands that IAM 751 and almosgt 30 K members give up their pension for newbies

    http://www.usaamerger.com/2013/05/01/buffenbarger-says-no-to...

    and then there is the bit abourt my way or the Hi -way

    http://archive.uniondemocracy.org/UDR/181a-Relentless_attack...

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 5:22 PM, KIMK wrote:

    And a bit morfe

    http://kboo.fm/content/machinistreformerrunsforinternational...

    and from the IAM site

    http://www.goiam.org/index.php/news/latest-videos/12097-pres

    Yep save MY pension- but throw the members under the bus I drive !!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 6:22 PM, jonnull wrote:

    Making $85k per year, if the company offers a 401k with a 50% match up to some %, let's say 6% (~9% minimum contribution to 401k). If that 401k plan averages a return of 5% for 15 years (i.e., for 50-year old worker, and even better if you're younger), then that would amount to $186k at retirement. Add in the $50/mo you'd pay yourself, in contributions, instead of union dues, and that would put that slightly under $200k. Also, with the 401k, if it's not on the companies books, then it's harder for them to get to it.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 7:00 PM, gskinner75006 wrote:

    I thought Boeing was moving the jobs to another state and be done with this. We'll clear off a nice spot for you here in Texas. Come on down!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 7:18 PM, proandconunion wrote:

    I have to disagree with the comments about the union. Companies keep cutting cost to compete and the only companies who will surive are the ones who are non union. The salaries are unreal based on normal corporate america. When a non

    professional is making what a doctor or lawyer is making, this is insane. Sorry but the truth is the truth. Back down or go home and draw unemployment. You can bet the companies will move to a more non union state in the US

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 8:21 PM, devilsnight wrote:

    Pension this, pension that. Do you realize after all these years that your retirement pension will probably rely on some diaper wearing toddler of today? It is some young bucks desicion, Pension, 401k, SS, I will not plan on any of these things to provide for me for the rest of my life. Think people! look around! Save your hard earned bucks and put them toward your future. Don't rely on someone that has no intention on coming through for you!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 8:38 PM, jaguarnana wrote:

    I love living in a "Right to Work" state...get to have your cake and eat it too. We are praying the greedy unions in Washington state vote down the contract proposal. Boeing, South Carolina welcomes you with open arms. Look! BMW is a tremendous success in our state and we love them. Don't need the greedy destroying unions to take my dues and make me strike whenever.

    Waiting for your arrival!

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 10:15 PM, ROAGHOR wrote:

    Union workers greedy? Why don't you dig and see how much the Corporate Officers for Boeing make on the backs of their union labor and see what real greed is. Boeing is wanting to push their employees to depend on Social security, which is a system that even our government knows will not be there for people who entered the work force later than 1985. So the pension, which is normally around 50k at the time of retirement is less than 1% of what most of their Corporate officers have deferred into their retirement every year. The money paid to theses people would create 100 or more of those $80k a year jobs. The greedy Union? You need to educate yourself on what really happens in Upper management in Corporate America. See whose hands get greased the most then make an educated remark about what's happening at Boeing.

  • Report this Comment On December 24, 2013, at 11:07 PM, jonnull wrote:

    So, taking a 50k pension (per ROAGHOR). This is equivalent to taking on 1.4% (or slightly $1200/year or $100/mo) when making $85k/yr for 15 years at 5% to earn that same 50k through a 401k account. So, as a union person would I rather have a company commitment of 11 years of work and a 401k (which has the potential to pay out 4x based on example data), or the possibility of trying to look for Boeing to leave and hoping that there will ever be another company that will come to your state and pay you $85k/yr and give you a pension.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 12:13 AM, slowdog442 wrote:

    Ask some of the ex Eastern Airlines people about the IAM and how they sold the Eastern membership out,The IAM are whores!

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 1:32 AM, USArmyRetired wrote:

    The dinosaur unions crippled the Big 3 and Boeing is next. Send the bloodsuckers packing.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 2:42 AM, ChMacQueen wrote:

    I remember when employers could offer what they wanted for a job or contract and if person 1 didn't like it they hired person 2 that did.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 4:51 AM, ortho1g wrote:

    why not save alittle on your on it works you can be rich

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Jawrig wrote:

    Greedy till death do them part!

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 10:43 AM, mikefromamerica wrote:

    ALL GOONION members need LOOK no FURTHER than the city of Camden, NJ. They FIRED their GOONIONIZED police force. Before they were FIRED, only 70% of the GOONIONIZED police force showed up to work on ANY given day. Kinda tough to keep law and order when 30% of the workforce doesn't show up! PLUS, as an ADDED PLUS, the city's CRIME rate fell DRAMATICALLY! Imagine THAT, huh? ALL GOONIONS need to GO AWAY in the PUBLIC sector. ALL GOONIONS do is SUCK the LIFEBLOOD out of companies! GOONIONS could NEVER be a STAND ALONE business, as they would EAT themselves out of business in just a few months!

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 10:49 AM, 2muchfreetime wrote:

    Fight on dummies. I will be happy to take your job and build the planes here in SC. Thanks and the best of luck to you in your future endeavors.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 11:50 AM, obine wrote:

    "..., Boeing returned to the bargaining table with a new offer featuring another $5,000 bonus, on top of $10,000 already offered (albeit six years from now), plus improved dental coverage, and it asked union management to recommend that contract to its members. That's when things got weird."

    "union management"? Isn't that an oxymoron?

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 12:12 PM, Chinaorbust2 wrote:

    Well I know for a fact no one can Live of Social Security. You guys better start saving something extra. The Fed has been in the process of devaluating the dollar. Soo Boeing will go to China. Then You'll kiss the dollar Good. There will be no Tax base to support any part of paying of the debt and what you'll get is ...less and less in the markets.

    Fact !! IMO

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 12:42 PM, watson14 wrote:

    Boeing should move to one of the "right to work for less" states.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 1:55 PM, foolfrank wrote:

    The President of the IAM International, Thomas Buffenbarger, received in total compensation for 2012, $304,114. Not too shabby.

    There are approximately 27 other employees at this union who received in total compensation for 2012, over $200,000. Notvtoo shabby.

    There's an additional 171 other employees (approximately), at this same union who received in total compensation over $100,000 for the year 2012. Not too shabby.

    My big question is what the hell did Buffenbarger and the rest of them do at this union to justify these kinds of annual compensation?

    Above information found at the U.S Dept. of Labor-union file# 000-107.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 2:51 PM, pottss55 wrote:

    Let boeing move to you state and set up camp with no benefits , minimum wage and no representation . You may be riding in that plane one day when it falls out of sky because of lack of experience or QA.Boring is like any other huge company , they cry poor mouth anytime their profit margin falls near 25% . Boeing then wants everyone one to pay for their misgivings right from country down to the people punching the time clocks with their skilled hands .Boeing doesn't care about it workers ,they only care about looking at a graph that shows a growing profit margin for corporate.Feel free to bash the hands that built America , Maybe the next job to go south of the border or over seas could be yours because no one stood up for your job and let big business bowl you over and take everything that workers before us have gained and today's workers fight daily to keep . merry christmas

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 3:43 PM, michaelbinCA wrote:

    AH, YES. Trouble in post-America.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 5:28 PM, mworld wrote:

    Just an observation - Can you name an industry in the US which has high union representation and is healthy. Governmental workers - really our primary schools are terrible. How do you like the service at the Department of Motor Vehicles when you go there? How about the auto industry? We all know the major correction that happened there. Airlines?

    Let's look at the major industries that are healthy in the US. Pharma, software, energy exploration, computer hardware - are any unionized?

    There are exceptions to the rule but in general it's more than a coincidence.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 5:50 PM, ensabada wrote:

    sadly, the discourse, as usual, has taken on the standard good vs evil. So, take one's predisposed position as just that. For me, things aren't as black or white. Have unions failed to adapt to the "global economy's labor market" challenges? Yes. Are we still mired in draconian, antiquated rules? In many cases, yes. Is innovative thinking lost, on both labor AND corporate levels? Absolutely yes. The battle cry/demand for entrepreneurs stems from the elephant in the room, wall street/financial institution/stockholders. the need for entrepreneurs, their ideas and products as food, allows the elephant to grow, by being eaten by the bloated corporations whose inertia lies in the fear of the elephant trampling them. I must admit that certain comments irked me. i.e. mikefrom america: contrary to YOUR conclusion, my deduction from your info was this - if crime was 'dramatically reduced', then the police were committing the crimes OR crimes are going unreported because to whom would you report criminal activity. Unfortunately be assured, criminal activity in Camden still flourishes, unchecked and unreported.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 6:30 PM, SkepikI wrote:

    Buffy the vampire sucking green from the clueless production technicians...... I wonder when or IF the working class will id this very interesting oppression of the workers...

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 7:44 PM, woolydogg69 wrote:

    hello Hagar2935 Oregon and Washington are both right to work states.We all want the most we can get out of a job . Unions actually have brought up the wages even for the non-union worker.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 7:50 PM, YPBusted wrote:

    At least Boeing's Union didn't threaten to drop the membership if they didn't ratify the lousy contract. YP's Union did.

  • Report this Comment On December 25, 2013, at 8:23 PM, djjerry wrote:

    I was born in Tacoma, Wa. and spent the first 46 years of my life in the State of Washington. I have known and do know many people that have or do work at or for BOEING. I remember every thinking that BOEING would never move their corporate headquarters?... They did..... Business structures and what companies have to do, especially in manufacturing have changed over the last 10 to 20 years. Look at all the AUTOMOBILES that are now being manufactured outside of Detroit. BOEING Needs and should look to the very LONG TERM as to what is best for their business to survive. I now live in Alabama and would love to see more BOEING opportunities here. But I also know have devastating that would and could be to the Puget Sound region. So for the sake of my family and friends, I hope the Union will do the right thing to keep BOEING in the area. But if not, I know that the Communities, businesses and great workers of Alabama would welcome BOEING with open arms.

  • Report this Comment On December 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, hbofbyu wrote:

    In a world economy you can't artificially pay your workers more than they are worth and expect to survive. Statistically there are over 500 million people in India who have a higher IQ than you do and a good percentage of those are desperate for a job.

    Dear Unions: Nobody OWES you anything. Adapt or die.

  • Report this Comment On December 27, 2013, at 3:23 PM, SkepikI wrote:

    <hello Hagar2935 Oregon and Washington are both right to work states>

    You are at least half incorrect. Oregon is NOT a right to work state.

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