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Quanta Services Inc (NYSE:PWR)
Q3 2021 Earnings Call
Nov 4, 2021, 9:00 a.m. ET

Contents:

  • Prepared Remarks
  • Questions and Answers
  • Call Participants

Prepared Remarks:

Operator

Hello, and welcome to the Quanta Services Third Quarter 2021 Earnings Call and Webcast. [Operator Instructions]

It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Kip Rupp, Investor Relations for Quanta Services. Please go ahead.

Kip Rupp -- Vice President Investor Relations

Thank you, and welcome, everyone, to the Quanta Services Third Quarter 2021 Earnings Conference Call. This morning, we issued a press release announcing our third quarter results, which can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website at quantaservices.com, along with the summary of our 2021 outlook and commentary we will discuss this morning. Additionally, we will use a slide presentation this morning to accompany our prepared remarks, which is viewable through the call's webcast and is also available on the Investor Relations section of the Quanta Services website. Please remember that information reported on this call speaks only as of today, November 4, 2021, and therefore, you're advised that any time-sensitive information may no longer be accurate as of any replay of this call.

This call will include forward-looking statements intended to qualify under the safe harbor from liability established by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These include all statements reflecting Quanta's expectations, intentions, assumptions or beliefs about future events or performance, but that do not solely relate to historical or current facts. Forward-looking statements involve certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions that are difficult to predict or beyond Quanta's control, and actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied. For additional information concerning some of these risks, uncertainties and assumptions, please refer to the cautionary language included in today's press release, along with the company's periodic reports and other documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which are available on Quanta's or the SEC's website. You should not place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, and Quanta does not undertake any obligation to update such statements and disclaims any written or oral statements made by any third party regarding the subject matter of this call.

Please also note that we will present certain historical and forecasted non-GAAP financial measures in today's call, including adjusted diluted EPS, backlog, EBITDA and free cash flow. Reconciliations of these measures to their most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings release. Lastly, if you would like to be notified when Quanta publishes news releases and other information, please sign up for email alerts through the Investor Relations section of quantaservices.com. We also encourage investors and others interested in our company to follow Quanta IR and Quanta Services on the social media channels listed on our website.

With that, I would like to now turn the call over to Mr. Duke Austin, Quanta's President and Chief Executive Officer. Duke?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Thanks, Kip. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Quanta Services Third Quarter 2021 Earnings Conference Call. On the call today, I will provide operational and strategic commentary and will then turn it over to Derrick Jensen, Quanta's Chief Financial Officer. We will provide a review of our third quarter results and full year 2021 financial expectations. Following Derrick's comments, we welcome your questions. This morning, we reported solid third quarter results, which included a number of record financial metrics, including revenues, adjusted EBITDA and earnings per share. Additionally, total backlog of $17 billion at the end of the quarter was also a record, which we believe reflects the benefits of our collaborative approach with the customers, favorable end market dynamics and continued advancement of our long-term growth strategies.

As many of you are aware, several weeks ago, we completed the previously announced acquisition of Blattner, which is a premier utility scale renewable energy infrastructure solutions provider in North America with decades of experience and a strong safety culture. We believe the energy transition in North America is on the cusp of a significant acceleration, and at moving to a carbon-neutral economy will require sizable and decades-long investment in renewable generation and related infrastructure. We believe this transaction puts Quanta in a unique position to enable the energy infrastructure for North America's energy transition. Since announcing our intention to acquire Blattner in early September, customer reactions and conversations across our customer base have been overwhelmingly positive and supportive. Further, we previously commented about how remarkably similar Quanta and Blattner are operationally and culturally, which has become increasingly apparent to working with the Blattner management team on integration.

We were all excited about our combined growth opportunities when we first announced the transaction. And I can tell you that today, we are even more excited and increasingly confident in the value proposition, innovative solutions and growth synergy opportunities at Quanta and Blattner are positioned to provide existing and new customers. Now turning the call to our operating results. Our Electric Power Solutions operations continued to perform well with record revenues and strong margins driven by robust demand for our services, solid and safe execution, high utilization of our resources and operational excellence. We are proud of our execution and confident that our strong market position will allow us to capitalize on future opportunities created by a favorable long-term trends driving utility investment and demand for our comprehensive solutions. Demand for grid modernization, system hardening and renewable energy interconnection services remain active, and discussions around opportunities for our electric vehicle infrastructure installation and program management capabilities continue to advance.

Our electric power backlog remains strong, driven primarily by significant multiyear master service agreements with utilities, which adds to the substantial MSA backlog growth we generated in the first half of this year. During the quarter, Hurricane Ida made landfall over Louisiana, which ultimately left 1.2 million customers across eight states without power, including one million outages in Louisiana alone. Quanta deployed significant resources to support utility customers through electric power infrastructure who was damaged or destroyed by the hurricane, including more than 2,500 line workers and front-end support services and engineering staff. Our comprehensive response resulted in record emergency restoration revenue and highlights our ability to quickly mobilize substantial resources to support our customers in times of need. Our customers continue to advance their efforts to achieve carbon neutrality over the coming decades, which is planned to be achieved in large part through increasing renewable generation investment.

We believe public policy and a positive general sentiment supporting a greener environment will drive North America's power generation mix increasingly toward renewables over the near and longer term. Blattner's utility scale renewable generation solutions, coupled with Quanta's complementary and holistic grid solutions, creates a unique value proposition and opportunity to collaborate with our customers to shape their energy transition initiatives. For example, Blattner is currently constructing more than 30 utility-scale renewable energy projects across the country, and another Quanta company is currently working on the largest solar-powered battery storage projects in North America. Additionally, we are seeing accelerated demand for our services that enable renewal generation, including transmission interconnections and substations.

We continue to scale our communication operations and progress to our strategy. For example, we have developed our wireless capabilities and are expanding our wireless services into certain markets. Communications revenues grew significantly in the third quarter as compared to last year. And though we incurred higher costs on certain jobs due to descoping of certain contracts and project closeouts, which impacted profitability for these operations, these issues were not meaningful to the overall electric power segment or Quanta as a whole. Nevertheless, demand for our communication services remains high and the majority of our communication operations are performing at or near our double-digit margin targets. Our underground utility in Infrastructure Solutions segment generally performed well in the quarter despite being impacted by work disruptions along the Gulf Coast due to Hurricane Ida and work inefficiencies associated with the recent surge of the COVID-19 Delta variant in certain areas.

We continue to experience solid demand for our gas utility and pipeline integrity services, which are driven by regulated spend to modernize systems, reduce methane emissions, ensure environmental compliance and improve safety and reliability. We expect our industrial services to strengthen through next year, along with the continued recovery of the global economy and demand for refined products as well as the return of our customer maintenance and capital spending that was previously deferred due to the effects of COVID-19 on the downstream market. Looking to the coming years, we believe the opportunity Quanta has with customers in this segment as they increasingly pursue strategies to reduce their carbon footprint and diversify their operations and assets toward greener business opportunities may be underestimated. Here are several examples of such initiatives and project opportunities. Gas utilities are implementing system modernization initiatives that position them to blend hydrogen into their natural gas flow.

To that end, Quanta is working with several gas utility customers on hydrogen pilot programs. Certain refiners are building renewable and biofuel processing facilities, which could create opportunities for our industrial services. Natural gas power plants are also exploring blending hydrogen with natural gas as a fuel source to power their turbines, which could create opportunities for our pipeline infrastructure services. Lastly, we are actively pursuing carbon sequestration projects in the United States, which could utilize our engineering and pipeline construction services. In Canada, Pembina Pipeline and TC Energy have proposed a plan to jointly develop a carbon transportation and sequestration system called the Alberta Carbon Grid, which is envisioned to serve as the backbone of Alberta's carbon capture utilization and storage industry and could include participation by other pipeline companies.

The initiative would leverage existing pipelines, requires a new pipeline and facility investment, which when fully constructed would be capable of transporting more than 20 million tons of carbon dioxide annually. The North American energy transition is just that a transition process. We roll our electric power infrastructure solutions play, and the energy transition is clear. However, we believe Quanta's underground utility and infrastructure solutions operations could play in an evolving and increasing role in this transition in support of our customers' carbon reduction initiatives. Progress continues in Washington, D.C. toward enacting the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the Build Back Better plan. As commented on prior calls, our positive multiyear outlook and strategic plan are not reliant on either of these packages. But if either or both enacted, they could provide incremental opportunity for Quanta over both the near and longer term. These packages include funding and policies to encourage new infrastructure development and modernization in several of our core markets. In particular, the Build Back Better plan currently contains policy and incentives representing the largest clean energy legislative package in American history. While additional political steps are still required, we are encouraged by what we've seen recently.

We have profitably grown the company and executed well this year and expect to continue to do so. We are confident in the strategic initiatives we are executing on, the competitive position we have in the marketplace and our positive multiyear outlook. We also believe that our business and opportunities for profitable growth in 2022 are gaining momentum, driven by our solution-based approach, the growth of programmatic spending with existing and new customers, opportunities for larger electric transmission projects, the addition of Blattner's renewable generation solutions and the opportunity for recovery of certain portions of our business that have been affected by the global pandemic. Looking to the medium and longer term, as energy transition and carbon reduction initiatives are increasingly implemented in addition to the primary drivers of our business currently, we believe our visibility could increase and our growth opportunities could expand and accelerate.

We believe the infrastructure investment and renewable generation necessary to support these initiatives are still in the early stages of deployment, and that this is arguably the most exciting time in Quanta's history. We are focused on operating the business for the long term and expect to continue to distinguish ourselves through safe execution and best-in-class field leadership. We will pursue opportunities to enhance Quanta's base business and leadership position in the industry and provide innovative solutions to our customers. We believe Quanta's diversity, unique operating model and entrepreneurial mindset form the foundation that will allow us to continue to generate long-term value for our stakeholders.

I will now turn the call over to Derrick Jensen, our Chief Financial Officer, for his review of our third quarter results and 2021 expectations. Derrick?

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, Duke, and good morning, everyone. Today, we announced record third quarter 2021 revenues to $3.4 billion. Net income attributable to common stock was $174 million or $1.21 per diluted share. And adjusted diluted earnings per share, a non-GAAP measure, was $1.48. Our electric power revenues were $2.3 billion, a quarterly record and a 10% increase when compared to the third quarter of 2020. This increase was driven by continued favorable dynamics across our core utility and communications market and associated demand for our services. Also contributing to the increase were revenues from acquired businesses of approximately $55 million. Electric segment operating income margins in 3Q '21 were 12.4%, slightly lower than 12.7% in 3Q '20 but better than our initial expectations. Operating margins benefited from record emergency restoration revenues of approximately $230 million, which typically present opportunities for higher margins than our normal base business activities due to higher utilization as well as overall solid execution across our electric operations.

Additionally, segment margins benefited from approximately $10 million of income associated with our LUMA joint venture. Otherwise, the slight reduction in operating margin versus prior year was attributable to normal job variability and mix of work and our communications operations, which delivered mid-single-digit margins during the quarter. As a reminder, last year's third quarter electric power results also included what was at the time a record level of emergency restoration revenues. Underground Utility and Infrastructure segment revenues were $1.02 billion for the quarter, 12% higher than 3Q '20 due primarily to increased revenue from gas distribution and industrial services. Though our operations experienced increased activity year-over-year, current quarter revenues and margins in our industrial operations were negatively impacted by disruptions along the Gulf Coast attributable to Hurricane Ida in both our industrial and non-U.S. markets within this segment remain pressured by COVID-19 dynamics. Third quarter operating income margins for the segment were 6.7%, 170 basis points lower than 3Q '20, but generally in line with our expectations. Margins for the year -- margins for the third quarter of 2020 benefited from favorable adjustments on certain larger pipeline projects with both scope changes and favorable closeout in the quarter.

Our total backlog was $17 billion at the end of the third quarter, the fifth consecutive quarter we've posted record total backlog. Additionally, 12-month backlog of $9.8 billion also represents a quarterly record. Our backlog growth continues to be driven primarily by multiyear MSA programs with North American utilities, which we believe reinforces the repeatable and sustainable nature of the largest portion of our revenues and earnings. The Blattner acquisition occurred after September 30. And accordingly, their backlog is not included in our current reported levels. However, the total backlog from Blattner and the other 4Q acquisitions is approximately $1.8 billion. For the third quarter of 2021, we generated negative free cash flow, a non-GAAP measure, of $40 million compared to $70 million of positive free cash flow in 3Q '20. Net cash provided by operating activities during the third quarter of 2021, although largely in line with our expectations, was down due to higher revenues and corresponding increases in working capital demands compared to prior year, which benefited from lower revenues and a corresponding lower use of working capital.

Also, 3Q '20 benefited from the deferral of $41 million of payroll taxes in accordance with the CARES Act, 50% of which are due by December 31, 2021, with the remainder due by December 31, 2022. Partially offsetting these dynamics was a favorable impact of increased earnings as compared to 3Q '20. Days sales outstanding, or DSO, measured 89 days for the third quarter of 2021, an increase of seven days compared to the third quarter of 2020 and an increase of six days compared to December 31, 2020. The increase was primarily due to elevated working capital requirements associated with two large Canadian transmission projects driving an increase in contract assets. Specific to the Canadian projects, both continue to encounter work stoppage protocols in Canada associated with COVID mitigation as well as delays attributable to, among other things, wildfires impacting access to work sites. These dynamics created substantial inefficiencies and production delays resulting in increased project costs.

We are in active discussions with both customers regarding change orders associated with these increased costs, some of which have already been approved with the remaining amounts being pursued in the normal course. In addition, normal variability in work production and associated payment cycles across our operations contributed to slightly higher DSO in the quarter. As Duke discussed and as we previously announced, we closed on the acquisition of Blattner on October 13. Prior to the closing, in September 2021, we issued $1.5 billion aggregate principal amount of senior notes with a weighted average interest rate of 2.12%, receiving net proceeds of $1.48 billion. Accordingly, as at quarter end, we had approximately $1.7 billion of cash. Subsequent to the quarter, we amended our credit agreement to, among other things, provide a term loan facility of $750 million, which was fully drawn and combined with the net proceeds from the senior notes offering to fund a substantial majority of the cash consideration payable to the Blattner shareholders at closing. I'll highlight that our financial strategy and consistent performance have allowed us to maintain investment-grade ratings subsequent to these financing transactions.

From a capital allocation perspective, Blattner represents the largest acquisition in Quanta's history and a strategic opportunity to expand the solutions we deliver to support North America's transition to carbon neutral energy infrastructure. Capital deployment for strategic acquisitions has always been a key part of our strategy. But as we've discussed in the past, our first priority for capital allocation remains supporting the working capital and equipment needs of our existing operations. While the debt issued to support the Blattner acquisition moved our leverage profile above our target range, it remains well below the financial covenant requirements in our credit facility, and we believe we can efficiently delever while continuing to create shareholder value through our dividend and repurchase programs as well as strategic acquisitions. Through the date of this earnings release, we've acquired approximately $64 million worth of stock since the beginning of the year as part of our repurchase program, and we'll continue to evaluate potential acquisitions that fit our strategic objectives.

To that end, during the third quarter and through the date of the earnings release, in addition to Blattner, we acquired three additional businesses and made a minority investment in another for total combined consideration of approximately $110 million. These incremental transactions further enhance our ability to deliver comprehensive infrastructure solutions to our North American utility and communications customers. Turning to our guidance. Our outlook for the remainder of the year reflects the strength of our core utility-backed operation, which continued to deliver solid results with robust year-over-year growth. However, the results of companies acquired during and subsequent to the third quarter, including Blattner's operations, will be included in our consolidated financial statements, which makes comparability to our previous expectations' challenge. It should be noted that we are in very early stages of establishing Blattner-specific opening balance sheet, which includes assessing the positions of ongoing projects as of the closing and valuing the tangible and intangible assets acquired. The result of those ongoing efforts will have a meaningful impact on Blattner's fourth quarter contribution, which we've attempted to address in the range of our fourth quarter expectations for the acquired businesses.

That said, excluding the expected contributions from the recently acquired companies, we now expect full year revenues from our legacy operations to range between $12.15 billion and $12.35 billion. Due to the strength of our consolidated performance for the first nine months of the year, we are increasing our expectations for the contribution of our legacy operations to adjusted EBITDA to range between $1.17 billion and $1.2 billion, with the midpoint of the range representing an increase over our previous guidance and 13% growth when compared to 2020's record adjusted EBITDA. As it relates to our current reportable segments, while we continue to evaluate how these changes may change with the addition of Blattner, I wanted to provide some color on our current expectations compared to our previous commentary, again, excluding contributions from the recently acquired businesses. We continue to expect full year revenues to range between $8.7 billion and $8.8 billion for our legacy electric segment operations.

However, based on the strong performance through the first nine months of the year and continued confidence in our ability to execute on the opportunities across the segment, we've increased our full year margin range for the segment with 2021 operating margins expected to come in slightly above 11%. Our full year expectations for the Underground Utility and Infrastructure Solutions segment, however, have slightly moderated due primarily to lower third quarter revenue levels than previously expected. Accordingly, we are reducing our full year expectations for the segment with revenues now expected to range between $3.45 billion and $3.55 billion while segment margins are now expected to range between 4.5% and 5%, which includes a $23.6 million provision for credit loss recognized in the second quarter, a nearly 70-basis-point negative impact on a full year basis. With regard to the recently acquired companies operations I spoke of earlier, including Blattner, we expect post-closing revenue contributions for the year to range between $400 million and $500 million and adjusted EBITDA, a non-GAAP measure, ranging between $40 million and $60 million.

Accordingly, including the expected contributions from the recently acquired companies, we now expect our consolidated full year revenues to range between $12.55 billion and $12.85 billion and adjusted EBITDA, a non-GAAP measure, of between and $1.21 billion and $1.26 billion. Corporate and unallocated costs will increase significantly, primarily due to the acquired companies. We currently estimate amortization expense for the full year will be between $149 million and $159 million, with $60 million to $70 million attributable to the recently acquired companies. Stock compensation expense for the full year is now expected to be approximately $89 million, with approximately $2 million attributable to restricted stock units issued to employees of the acquired company. Acquisition and integration costs are expected to be approximately $26 million for the fourth quarter, resulting in approximately $36 million for the year. This includes approximately $10.5 million of expenses associated with change of control payments awarded to certain employees of Blattner by the selling shareholders, which require expense accounting as they have a one-year service period requirement. We expect a comparable dollar amount will be accrued each quarter post closing until the one-year anniversary of the transaction, at which time the payments will be made to the employee. We intend to include this amount as an adjustment to arrive at our adjusted EPS and adjusted EBITDA, both non-GAAP measures. Below the line, we expect interest expense for the year to be around $67 million, which includes approximately $16 million of incremental interest expense associated with debt financing used to fund the cash portion of the Blattner acquisition.

Additionally, we now expect our full year tax rate to be around 24%, reflecting a slight reduction from our prior expectations due primarily to a favorable shift in the mix of earnings between various taxing jurisdictions. As a result, our expectation for full year diluted earnings per share attributable to common stock is now between $3.20 and $3.40. And our increased expectation for adjusted diluted earnings per share attributable to common stock, a non-GAAP measure, is now between $4.62 and $4.87. On a consolidated basis, we now expect free cash flow for the year to range between $350 million and $500 million. This slight decrease is primarily due to potential timing of payments associated with emergency restoration efforts as well as the likelihood that the dynamics impacting the larger Canadian projects continue to pressure DSO in the fourth quarter.

Additionally, while we expect Blattner will be meaningfully accretive to our cash flow profile on an annual basis, we expect certain favorable billing positions at the time of acquisition could unwind as Blattner incurs costs in the fourth quarter to finish projects for which they've already received payments. This dynamic could minimize Blattner's cash contribution during the quarter, which we factored into our range of expectations. As we stated in prior quarters, our quarterly free cash flow is subject to sizable movements due to various customer and project dynamics that can occur in the normal course of operations. For additional information, please refer to our outlook summary, which can be found in the Financial Info section of our IR website at quantaservices.com. Overall, we continue to believe we are in the early stages of a significant infrastructure investment cycle, and the acquisition of Blattner further differentiates us in the markets we serve and expand our ability to deliver solutions to support North America's transition to carbon neutral energy infrastructure. We remain confident in our ability to execute against the opportunities in front of us while maintaining the financial flexibility to opportunistically deploy capital to deliver long-term shareholder value.

This concludes our formal presentation, and we'll now open the line for Questions and Answers. Operator?

Questions and Answers:

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our first question today is coming from Chad Dillard from Bernstein. your line is now live.

Chad Dillard -- Bernstein -- Analyst

Hi, good morning guys. So I just want to zero in on some of the areas of business that underperformed expectations for the quarter. So I guess, first of all, like on the communications side, you guys talked about some higher cost in jobs impacting margins. So first of all, can you quantify that? And then do you see that coming back on track as we go into the fourth quarter in '22? And then on the Industrial Services side, I think you talked about some storm issues impacting results. Is that business still profitable? Or was that business profitable in the third quarter? And just lastly, on the Canadian projects that you called out, just want to confirm whether there were charges taken or was this just a working capital swing. And when do those DSOs normalize?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

So I think when we look at the telecom business, we did call it out a bit. We're kind of -- we're operating income mid-single digits instead of upper single to double digits when we looked at it. So it's not performing terrible. It's not where we want it to be. The macro market is very good and robust. The closeouts on a few projects are very difficult, but the large majority or the vast majority of the business is performing in those double-digit margins and offsetting anything there. It's minimal, as we said on the call, from a charge standpoint or really just cost standpoint when we close things out. So we'll go from there. But I do think we added backlog. We continue to build backlog in the segment. We see a long runway there, and we did start up some wireless capabilities. It has some cost in it. So in general, incidental to the company, incidental to the segment, we like the market long term. We will get into double digits there over time. Canada, when we look at Canada, I think, in general, the projects are performing well. We still see some COVID effects there to the Delta variant on some of those projects. So there is some delays in getting billing cycles, billing points there as we run through a project, I think. So that, it's more of a billing issue of when can we get things build versus any problems with the project or charges. We did not take charges on Canadian projects. We performed very well. And the storm, yes, it did have a positive effect to the electric segment. It does when we get storms like that. It was a little bit bigger than last year from the standpoint. So a fairly large storm for us. I think it shows our collaborative effect with the client, how we've got in and worked our front-end services, we're still working the storm for our client. So it just shows the longevity of the company and what we've done on the front side of the business to collaborate with the client, to get things up faster, to do a nice job there for them. And I think we performed very well there, offset by it did have some impact on some of our underground segments as it always does when it comes in. So you get some offset, and you also come off some larger work to go pick up storm. So those things offset some in the quarter.

Chad Dillard -- Bernstein -- Analyst

That's helpful. And then just my second question is a little bit longer term and has to do with labor. So clearly, there's a lot of work coming down the pipe to decarbonize the U.S., and I know you guys have the Northwest Lineman College. But just trying to understand just your strategy for scaling labor. Maybe you can start off with how much throughput do you have into your ranks from Northwest Lineman College and then how can you scale that program to meet the future labor needs. And then lastly, maybe you can talk about whatever innovations or technology you have to minimize or actually improve labor productivity of your workers in your business.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Thanks, Chad. I think if you're just now trying to scale labor, you're long ways behind. We've spent about $150 million over the last five years, and we're way ahead of that. So in my mind, we've done that. We've proven that. We've proven that we can grow the company. That's who we are as this crop skilled labor and not labor. So in my mind, we self-perform about 85% to 90% of our business for a reason, and it's this reason. When you get tight labor markets, we can perform. We can perform on time, on budget and give our clients what they're asking for, which is certainty, and we're doing that on a daily basis. That's why we're collaborating, and that's why you're seeing expansion. As far as productivity, I'll put our margins up against it and show the growth of the company, the growth of our internal labor force, say, 3,000 to 5,000 that we add every year. To do that labor force is proof that we can do it. We can scale it. We are scaling it, and the productivity speaks for itself in the margins.

Operator

Our next question today is coming from Alex Rygiel from B. Riley. Your line is now live.

Alex Rygiel -- B. Riley -- Analyst

Thank you gentlemen. As it relates to higher DSOs due to the costs and delays on the two Canadian electrical transmission projects, can you address your confidence in collecting on these and what the likely timing of that will be?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Yes. So on the DSOs there in Canada in our likelihood, Canada has traditionally had larger DSOs. The projects are bigger. Some of the time frames in the way that milestone billings go in. So it's typically in this way, we have a high degree of confidence and probability in collecting. I'll let Derrick comment on the DSOs.

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

Yes, exactly. I would comment on that from a timing perspective right now, I think it'll be post year-end, which is reflected in our cash flow commentary. I think it is probably going to be more in the first quarter and second quarter of next year.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Both projects with long-standing clients, we have great relationships with that I believe. Ultimately, we're in very good shape.

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

And quite confident.

Operator

Our next question is coming from Sean Eastman from KeyBanc. Your line is now live.

Sean Eastman -- KeyBanc -- Analyst

Hi, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my questions. I feel like coming through earnings here, just a lot of concerns around the renewables supply chain. You guys obviously just completed a big acquisition tied to renewables development into next year. So I guess just in light of what you're seeing in the supply chain, could you maybe update us on how much cushion you think you have in that 2022 Blattner outlook that you framed back in September? Do you think that outlook is biased to the upside? Or is that looking increasingly sort of realistic at this point?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

If you said 2.5 to 2.7, we stand by it. We stand by it today. We stand by -- we know more about the company today than we did when we talked about it before. We feel highly confident in those numbers. And I would just say, in general, yes, there is some supply chain noise, as what I would call it. And I think us having the breadth of Quanta, the breadth of Blattner is only, from my standpoint, helps us. It adds to who we are. It adds to how we can go execute. And I want to also say like when we think about Blattner and we think about this long term, we're looking 20 years and we've given guidance out. So we -- not only do we stand by the 2.6, 2.7 that we've given. We also gave a 2025 guidance of 3.6. We stand by that even more today.

Sean Eastman -- KeyBanc -- Analyst

Okay. Fair enough, Duke. And maybe you could comment on how LUMA is trending relative to what they need to be doing to capture those performance incentives. Could that be upside in the fourth quarter? I'm just not exactly sure how that works. And obviously, a lot of noise in the headline still, so great to get an update there.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Yes. So LUMA, we expect the noise in the headlines. I think we said that from the start. And as you transition into these large term -- large transitions on an island, it is -- it does have some noise to it. We're performing very well underneath. The governor -- the government is very much behind it. The -- what we're doing is the right thing. We will transition that onto a modern system. We're doing so every single day. You can't get the payments on the upside of those payments until we get into a full contract, which doesn't go into a full contract until bankruptcies declared out of bankruptcy, and then it goes into a 15-year contract. But as we stand today, we're in a contract. It just not -- has not started on the 15 years until they come out of bankruptcy. There were some favorable rulings on the bankruptcy proceedings this -- in the last week or so, I believe. So really good stuff going on underneath. Little noisy on the top and primarily around the generation, which we don't control. So I feel confident in our ability to perform there and what we're doing for the people of that island.

Sean Eastman -- KeyBanc -- Analyst

Thanks Duke. I'll turn it over.

Operator

Your next question today is coming from Neil Mehta from Goldman Sachs. Your line is now live.

Neil Mehta -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

Good morning team. I want to spend a little time on transmission. And there was recent news of the whole thing of the NECEC transmission project? And do you foresee some risk to electric power top line growth in the future due to regulatory concerns around large project activity and transmission? And any of the current projects that you're working on facing similar risks that we should be aware of?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

I kind of look at it like this. I saw most of our clients either add to their $20 billion of backlog over time of what they're going to build on our capex and opex over the quarter, almost every single one of them added to what they're trying to do from the energy transition. The large projects make good headlines, and people want to talk about them. We're right around the edges on every one of them. They're additive to anything we've said. The 85% of our business that still exists today is MSA work. Those capital spend was undergrounding what Energy said yesterday on storm hardening. Those kind of things and with the tight labor supply. So any headline you're reading or what you read into something on large projects, it's not affecting the underlying business and our growth trajectories. We've given good guidance on that. The 85%, mid- to upper single digits, you can look at our track record over the last five to six years and see what it looks like. I expect that going forward.

Neil Mehta -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

Yes. That's really clear. So the follow-up is around the budget reconciliation package. Would spending from both the budget reconciliation package depending on what form it takes and the bipartisan infrastructure build directly drive project activity that Quanta could be involved in? And that's over and above the base case growth that you talk about.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

I mean I think you're going through an energy transition, as we said. And I think the sentiment around North America and around what we're hearing even in Canada, you're seeing more and more transition. And as you go into EVs, as you go into your renewables coming on and you're also doubling the load over time. And I think that's the unknown, is people don't understand that you're doubling load and you're going to a carbon-free fuel source. So as you do those things, you're going to need hydrogen, you're going to need tons of renewables. And I think in order to do that, you got to have transmission. And we're sitting in very, very good spaces in all these areas. And it allows us -- through policy or without policy, we'll continue to see that sentiment move forward. That's what we see. I do think when both the Biden plan, the plans that we've seen are additive to anything we've said.

Neil Mehta -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

Thanks Duke.

Operator

Our next question is coming from Jamie Cook from Credit Suisse. Your line is now live.

Jamie Cook -- Credit Suisse -- Analyst

Hi, good morning. I guess two questions, one sort of short term, one sort of longer term. First, Derrick, can you help us understand the industrial business or stronghold business, what is implied for the revenue and sort of EBIT, if any, contribution in your 2021 guidance and just the opportunity for that business to be more accretive to margins and earnings as we look to 2022? And then my second question, Duke, just longer term, is as we think about the long-term secular trends, you have Blattner infrastructure, etc. Could you sort of help us reframe how you're thinking about sort of the electric power margins over the longer term? And is there sort of more of an upward bias versus how you thought about margins historically?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Jamie, I'll take a little bit on the stronghold, and let Derrick comment on the numbers. But in general, what we see is we see an increase in that business in the fourth quarter a bit. I would say, you have a higher oil price. So they'll be reluctant to do much in this environment. But as we go into next year, we see a real strong turnaround here. We believe that the business is coming back meaningfully. So I feel confident in the next year on the business, but I'll let Derrick comment on the fourth quarter.

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

Yes. I mean as it relates to -- go ahead, Jamie.

Jamie Cook -- Credit Suisse -- Analyst

Yes, sorry, go ahead. Go ahead, Derrick.

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

I was just going to say relative to the fourth quarter, I mean, I think it would be slightly profitable, which is kind of what we've said where they would be back in returning to a degree of profitability. Overall, that group is slightly north of $500 million for '21 going into '22. I think we see it having the ability to start to return to victory of normalcy that we've talked about. In the past, those numbers have been north of like a $700 million number. I don't know quite yet. It's too early to comment as to whether we'll get into those type of levels, but I think we definitely see an increase. And we would see that it would be largely returning to some of that historical profitability. Again, we want to see how this fourth quarter plays out, though.

Jamie Cook -- Credit Suisse -- Analyst

And sorry, can you remind me how you're thinking about historic profitability for strongholds?

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

Yes. Historically, they were a double-digit EBITDA.

Jamie Cook -- Credit Suisse -- Analyst

Okay. So there's potential for that in 2022?

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

I do believe there's potential for that, yes. We're already so.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

It will be treated in our guidance. So we'll see how it starts to perform. But yes, I think in the range of the guidance, you could see that. As far as the Electric Power segment, I think when we put stronghold in or when we put stronghold in, I mean we see they're kind of double-digit margin company. And as we look at it going forward, we believe that the segment will perform in those areas. Obviously, as we go into '22, we'll be prudent about how we guide as we always are. We've got to get through weather, and we have a lot of men and women performing in the field. And I think in general, when we think about it, the business is healthy. It's in a good secular macro environment. So we really like where we sit. We think we're doing great things collaboratively. And anything that Blattner has is additive to us. And again, their culture and what we're doing internally as far as melding together and looking for opportunity, I can only say that I feel stronger about it today than I did October 3.

Jamie Cook -- Credit Suisse -- Analyst

But I guess my question is, do you see longer term and upward buys? Is it more profit dollar growth versus margin? Is that the way to think about it?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

I think it's more -- from my standpoint, we're trying to deliver cash to the bottom line. And the returns as far as capital, those kind of things will operate in the same kind of profile we have in the past on the electric segment. Blattner is additive from a standpoint, from a capex standpoint on a return basis. So I -- they're accretive.

Operator

Our next question is coming from Marc Bianchi from Cowen. Your line is now live.

Marc Bianchi -- Cowen -- Analyst

I wanted to talk about the acquired businesses and what's implied for fourth quarter and try to understand that in the context of the Blattner guidance for '21 -- or 22, excuse me. So I think the -- if I take this fourth quarter revenue from the acquired businesses, it's like a run rate of $1.8 billion annually. And the Blattner guide, I think you said earlier it was 2.5 to 2.7 for '22. So is there just a lot of seasonality in that business? Are there some projects moving around? Or perhaps, it's just conservatism. I'm curious if you could help us understand that progression a little better.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Yes, sure. So partly, it's only a partial quarter contribution that we did not acquire the company back at the quarter. So there's only a part of October. So that's a component of it. Two, exactly, it's unfair to annualize a given quarter, much like it is on Quanta. I mean we have a degree of seasonality. You can't take any given quarter and annualize that. There are movements of projects and seasonality. That is still the case as well for Blattner in any of the companies that we acquire. So we still feel very comfortable with the 2.5 to 2.7 original guidance for Blattner irrespective of this quarter contribution. And then lastly, yes, there is a bit of just timing starts and stops of projects affecting the number. And then probably the last point that you raised is that we have been trying to be a bit prudent with the contribution because of the fact that we have just out closed the transaction, we've got opening balance sheet work to do, looking at how some of that opening balance sheet will lay out to the rest of those contracts. So four or five different factors there. But net-net, we feel very comfortable still with the 2.5, 2.7annual '22 contribution.

Marc Bianchi -- Cowen -- Analyst

Okay. Okay. Maybe looking longer term, Duke, you mentioned CO2 and hydrogen pipeline opportunity work down the road. How big could that business be for you maybe on a percentage of what you do today or maybe what the dollar addressable market might look like? And how does that differ from the work you do today, right, on a maybe per mile basis or however you want to talk about it? Is it much larger in terms of total dollars per mile of pipeline or whatever the scope of the work is?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

No, I don't think so. When we look at it, I mean we're really just -- we're thinking about it as part of the segment, much like you would think about LNG when you're moving LNG or you're doing things. Really, what you're seeing is the transition of infrastructure. Where our role is in this infrastructure transition as we move into the future, I mean, I think we just sit right in the middle of it on anything you can think about is that transition. So whether they need -- they're going to need pipe to move it and they're also going to need pipe to move hydrogen and into blend into natural gas. And I think when you start blending that, you have different infrastructure. So all these different things that we're bringing into the market's, batteries, EV renewables, technology with 5G, all those things are certainly where we sit. And as we said in the nucleus of that and we think about it, as we think about Blattner and where they sit in all this, that transition is something that Quanta is really focused on from a labor standpoint, a technology standpoint and how we help and collaborate with the client, not only from where they're at today, but how they transition. So at the very front end of that is where we're playing, and it's early in hydrogen. I do think there's going to be a significant amount of opportunity going forward, but we're already seeing where turbines and power plants on gas are starting to blend and even spec hydrogen to some degree. So it's going to be a piece of the nucleus of how you regulate and keep the grid balanced. The bigger issue with the grid is to balance it, sun, wind and then the balance thereof. So hydrogen will play a part of it.

Operator

Your next question today is coming from Noelle Dilts from Stifel. Your line is now live.

Noelle Dilts -- Stifel -- Analyst

So I wanted to just -- I just wanted to touch on from a very high level, maybe how we should think about the timing or cadence of work in 2022. So I had two questions related to that. The first is this higher steel or raw material costs are impacting timing at all. Are you seeing kind of any projects really pushed to the right? And then second, if you could touch on how we should think about Blattner kind of typical seasonality would be helpful.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Yes, I'll comment on the -- as far as the commodities, we are seeing some escalation in commodity pricing. It has not affected the business. It's not material. I think our scale, our ability to move from project to project, while one may delay, others are coming in. I just -- the amount, the macro environment there, that's part of the reason you want scale in a renewable business or any business that we're in on scale. Scale allows us flexibility. It allows us flexibility with the client. And I'll start buying power. I mean when you look at fleet and how we manage through fleet, there's constraints to others with fleet. And our ability to really work with the client, work with our customers and our suppliers on that has given us really what I think the competitive advantage going forward, and I'll let Derrick comment on the rest.

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

Yes. And one other point, I guess, is that to the extent that there's anything for fluctuations in the timing of Blattner, I mean any of that would be from a supply perspective could lead to projects pushing to the right at any given point in time not necessarily, in our mind, impacting a profitability-type dynamic, but could push things around. But having said that, from an overall seasonality, I think I'd probably say it's reasonably similar to our overall electric power operations, probably really a little bit lower than the first, rising in the second, stronger in the third and then the fourth being either comparable to or having a slight decline depending upon the timing of any of these supply type dynamics. But largely, I think I'd say similar to our historical electric power patterns.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

I would say our commentary on Blattner on the numbers that we've given you based upon us and where we're going into next year on that on any supply chain issue, we're highly confident in those numbers.

Noelle Dilts -- Stifel -- Analyst

Okay, OK. Great. That's really helpful. And then second, I just wanted to kind of clarify one point within underground utility and infrastructure. On the LDC business, I know you said you're still seeing strong demand there. When you mentioned the COVID impact to margins, was that mostly at stronghold? Or did you also see that in the LDC business? And if you could comment on where margins are kind of running today or this year versus where you expect them to be over the next couple of years.

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

Yes. Actually, some of the other COVID dynamics were a little bit in Canada, a little bit in Australia. And then, yes, in some of the industrial side pressuring and not really so much on the LDC side. I think we're seeing normal operations for the most part on the LDC side. And then from a margin perspective, yes, we're continuing to see that comparable to what we've been speaking to, trending toward -- getting into that upper single digits overall as we go forward. We continue to feel confident in our ability to do that with the LDC operation.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Yes. No, I would say, too, our Canadian operations, I think we're probably the most effective with COVID, certainly. And when we look at it, we look at it going forward. And we started some nice projects out there, and I think we're in good shape on the gas side. And as far as on the electric side, we had a commentary around that. And obviously, we've got -- the health and safety of these employees are what we're really focused on to make sure they're safe every day, and we've given them great mitigation and great plans to be safe. So we've done that through the company and have not missed work yet for two years, and I fully expect us to operate right through it. And we're going to do -- we're going to work with our client on any kind of mandate there may be geographically or holistically.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is coming from Brent Thielman from D.A. Davidson. Your line is now live.

Brent Thielman -- D.A. Davidson -- Analyst

I just want to follow up on the gas utility portion of underground, maybe just get your latest and greatest in terms of what you're seeing among customers for modernization programs going forward. Do you still think that portion of the business can achieve the sort of growth rates you've seen over the last several years kind of going forward?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

I mean like the business long term, there's mandates around methane gas release, cast iron replacements. We've seen some great stuff with hydrogen coming along. And so we really like the business on the underground, but I want to go back again and say it's a portfolio. If we can build underground electric with gas crews, that's what we're going to do. We're going to go and really consolidate offices, leverage our capabilities in the field. Our some gas operations will be performed in underground electric. So I'm not really worried about it from a segmentation standpoint. In my mind, we're going to fully utilize our people with the highest impact on the profitability of the company. And I -- that's what we're focused on, whether it be telecom, gas electric. So the equipment is like type. The people, for the most part, are very much like type. So we can operate throughout our portfolio of our service lines if we do it properly and leverage our capabilities at the field level, which is that's what this company is focused on is driving the margin of the whole.

Operator

Our next question is coming from Adam Thalhimer from Thompson, Davis. Your line is now live.

Adam Thalhimer -- Thompson, Davis -- Analyst

Duke, do you think that with the hydrogen and CO2 lines, there's actually less industry pushback?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

It's a complicated dynamic, whether you go green hydrogen. It's just hard. I would say, it's corrosive. It turns hot. There's just -- it's different. And I think when we think about it, we're working with the client. The early stages, it is a part of the solution. And everybody, we're going to have to regulate the grid, the load. We get curves in the load. That load regulation is a big deal and especially without interconnections and the difficulty building transmission. So while we talk about it a lot, it's still difficult to build large projects. And the underlying -- underneath has to be very, very robust. And so you get a lot of smaller projects and you get a lot of other things that you can do. So I do think hydrogen is just a piece of what we're trying to accomplish as utilities go into their transitions in this renewable state. And you're going to build big transmission as well. It's going to stock on top. It's just a timing thing.

Operator

Our next question is coming from Ian MacPherson from Piper Sandler. Your line is now live.

Ian MacPherson -- Piper Sandler -- Analyst

Duke, I heard, I think $110 million of quarter-to-date bolt-ons following Blattner. I had sort of imagine that, that inorganic strategy might -- you might tap the brakes a little bit as we integrate Blattner, not the case short term. And I know that's a big part of your DNA and what Quanta does really, really well. But just curious on your thoughts on the merits versus risks of investing more pro-cyclically now that things are hotter, valuations are probably hotter. Maybe there's more embedded backlog risk and targets that you might acquire. So just your thoughts on what the go-forward cadence might look like for additional acquisitions.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

I think when we looked at it, we had some ongoing M and A., and I think that remains to some degree. We've never been out looking for acquisitions. We -- when companies come, they have a strong need for them in a region, and I think we've made very good ones and very good acquisitions. So again, we're not looking for it. We just made a $2.7 billion acquisition. We're going to be prudent about how we manage this balance sheet. And I've said that all along, we will generate cash and pay down debt, and that's part of who we are. But we're not going to walk away from great companies. We don't feel at all like we've stretched this balance sheet given the fact of the macro market and what we see. So while we are -- while I would say, yes, we'll probably tap the brakes a bit, certainly, we're not going to pass on companies that we believe add value to the shareholders.

Operator

Our next question today is coming from Andy Kaplowitz from Citigroup. Your line is now live.

Andy Kaplowitz -- Citigroup -- Analyst

Duke, I know even a few years ago, you deemphasized large oil and gas pipelines. But last quarter, I think you talked about winning some larger projects in that space. And obviously, oil prices are higher now. It seems like there are a couple of projects out there that you could bid on. So how do you sort of view the more traditional projects these days? Is there an active pipeline? Could there be significant growth in that world?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

I mean, I think when we talked about that last quarter and we're in construction on some in Canada today, so we're opportunistic there. We can operate that business quite profitably. We're just not -- in my mind, we decided not to invest in it and not to continue to invest. So it's a little bit different. We can still do $1 billion in the business. We can do $2 billion in the business from what we have today. So we don't have to invest more in capital. We have the people. We have the things that we can do. As you look at carbon sequestration and all the lines there and all the things that they're coming up on hydrogen, it certainly plays into the business, and we'll look at it. We have the capabilities internally. We'll continue to take the opportunities. They'll stack on to anything we're doing, whether it be Canada or the U.S. But there are some nice projects out there, and certainly, we're around the edges on every one of them. But we're not going to take the risk that it's not something that we have to have. And when we guide, it will be $300 million to $500 million. I can almost tell you right now, and that's what it will look like. If we do a $2 billion, great, we'll let you know.

Operator

Your next question today comes from Michael Dudas from Vertical Research. Your line is now live.

Michael Dudas -- Vertical Research -- Analyst

Regarding, Duke, the capital budgets that your utility clients are putting forth for 2022 and sort of like beyond, has there been a significant mix? I'm talking more from the T and D side on hardening resilience relative to new investment replacement. Is that shifting? Are they focusing more on the former? And I'm assuming there's not a major difference in margin or utilization depending on what you guys do for them, but just wondered if you could share your thoughts on that.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

It's kind of all of the above. So I think when we look at it, it depends on where you're at geographically, but certainly all of the above. We've seen storm hardening escalate. We've seen undergrounding certainly come about in a significant way. Those two things are there. I think what's underappreciated is the amount of infrastructure and the modernization necessary on the distribution system to handle the load, the EV. When you start putting these cars, batteries on at night. And on the distribution load of what it does to the system, I think it's underestimated on the cost and the amount of work that's out there of capital that's necessary to get these systems ready for electric vehicles. I just -- in my mind, it's just underappreciated.

Operator

Your next question is coming from Justin Hauke from Baird. Your line is now live.

Justin Hauke -- Baird -- Analyst

I guess my question -- and thanks for all the questions you've answered. But on Blattner, just the award activity in 3Q and since, given that you talked about a lot of solar mix shift for next year relative to the wind projects, I guess maybe just an update on kind of how things are trending there and if that mix shift is coming through. And then also, it seems like there's been a lot of approvals for offshore wind projects. And I think that's kind of outside of the wheelhouse that you're looking at. But are there opportunities for you to participate on any of those?

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

When we look at Blattner, I reiterated guidance pretty firmly into '22 and talked about by $3.5 billion, $3.6 billion in '25. So the commitment there, we're really looking at megawatts and not projects. The projects are certainly there. If we decide to start, say, the reward we got, I just think it's not valuable to the shareholder nor is it productive. So what we're saying is $2.6 billion, $2.7 billion next year and $3.6 billion in '25 of top line button. So that's how we see it. That's how robust it is. So it should give you a good idea of what we're seeing as a company and how we sit in the pendulum of the future and the renewable business. So in my mind, that shows where we're at. And I think, again, the words are there. We're certainly with the client, talking to them on a multiyear basis, not just one job. So that's fair. Offshore, it's expensive. I think we have clients that are certainly -- have their plans around offshore. And we're certainly in there as far as interconnections. Things that we're good at, we'll do. But primarily as it comes onshore, just -- I've said this before, but we have had bad luck with boats, and I'm just not a boat fan.

Operator

Our next question is coming from Steven Fisher from UBS. Your line is now live.

Steven Fisher -- UBS -- Analyst

So it sounds like there's a learning curve on telecom that you're experiencing now, and I want to make sure we understand how to set our expectations on that from here as it relates to the margins. What are the different elements of the learning curve you have to get up? And when can we expect that to normalize such that we can have sort of a more consistent margin expectation here on the telecom side within that, the electric segment? And then just maybe a quick follow-up on -- just to clarify on the Blattner deal, you've been extremely clear about the confidence that you have in the guidance numbers. But you've talked about the revenue numbers, not the EBITDA contribution. I just want to make sure there's no difference in your confidence in between the revenues and EBITDA.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Double-digit EBITDA on Blattner. As far as the telecom, we've talked about it in length. I think in general, what I would say is the closeouts on the end as far as engineering closeouts and things like that and then some descoping of certain clients on their builds created some effects in projects, and we're still working with the client. We'll do our best to call stuff back. But if you think about it, if we get $200 million and we did 6% instead of 10%, it's $6 million, something like that. It's just -- it's not big numbers for us long term, and I think we're not seeing big effects to that as far as margins. And we will get them in the double-digit ranges. We're operating for primarily in those ranges. We had some projects early on that are complicated. It's an industry issue. It's not just us. So it's something that we're all faced with and some closeouts. And I think we're in the late stages of those closeouts, and you'll start to see it get back in the double digits.

Operator

We've reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to management for any further closing comments.

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Yes. First, we really want to welcome the people of Blattner and certainly have the culture there and the people in the field, the people that pay our paychecks, thank them for what they do every day. And storms were tough. Our people performed extremely well through tough environments down in the Gulf Coast and certainly the families that lost lives and tragedy there, it's tough. So our guys did really well, and I'd like to thank all of you for participating in the conference call. We appreciate your questions and your ongoing interest in Quanta Services. Thank you. This concludes our call.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]

Duration: 40 minutes

Call participants:

Kip Rupp -- Vice President Investor Relations

Earl C. "Duke" Austin, Jr. -- President, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer

Derrick A. Jensen -- Chief Financial Officer

Chad Dillard -- Bernstein -- Analyst

Alex Rygiel -- B. Riley -- Analyst

Sean Eastman -- KeyBanc -- Analyst

Neil Mehta -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

Jamie Cook -- Credit Suisse -- Analyst

Marc Bianchi -- Cowen -- Analyst

Noelle Dilts -- Stifel -- Analyst

Brent Thielman -- D.A. Davidson -- Analyst

Adam Thalhimer -- Thompson, Davis -- Analyst

Ian MacPherson -- Piper Sandler -- Analyst

Andy Kaplowitz -- Citigroup -- Analyst

Michael Dudas -- Vertical Research -- Analyst

Justin Hauke -- Baird -- Analyst

Steven Fisher -- UBS -- Analyst

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