"Motley Fool Money" on the Road

In this podcast, Motley Fool host Dylan Lewis and analysts Asit Sharma and Andy Cross discuss topics including:

• The Nasdaq building in NYC, and how the company and exchange have fared in 2023. 
• What's happening with PayPal.
• How high rates impact investing decisions, and some companies that have done succession well recently.

To catch full episodes of all The Motley Fool's free podcasts, check out our podcast center. To get started investing, check out our quick-start guide to investing in stocks. A full transcript follows the video.

This video was recorded on Oct. 23, 2023

Dylan Lewis: Live from New York. It's Motley Fool Money. What an introduction. I love it. I'm Dylan Lewis and I'm joined on the floor of our NYC One member event with Motley Fool analysts Asit Sharma and Andy Cross. Gentlemen, great to have you both here. ... Even better to have all these members here in the audience with our live taping. This is an absolutely fantastic event and I think it's a pretty cool podcast taping for us. We've got thoughts on the stock exchange, we've got some sneak pics at what one members are getting here at this event in New York City. We've got some overlooked cool stocks. Maybe a little bit of member fun there too. We're going to kick off though, talking about the Nasdaq. Andy, Asit, last night we were there overlooking Times Square for the kickoff and the reception for this member event. I'm curious, Andy, what were some of your thoughts just being there, being at the Exchange where all the action happens?

Andy Cross: Well, it was a super cool event and venue. It was maybe a little bit chilly to be on the outside part of it. But for those of us who did have a chance to go out there, I think it was really cool to be able to look across just a magnificent city and see just all the energy. You come to New York, I'm from Washington, DC, so it's a very easy train ride, pop up. You just get this energy in the vibe that you can't get anywhere else, at least in my opinion. That just came through last night at the event. The one members we spoke to are just some of the most passionate investors we have as part of our member base. We have a lot of great members, but the one members bring something special and there's really need to be back at the Nasdaq for that.

Dylan Lewis: Asit, you agree to it but worth it.

Asit Sharma: Absolutely, Dylan. I used to live here downtown in the 1990s and it's good to see the city come back. So much energy on the streets and so much energy from our members. I also had some wonderful conversations last night. Maybe 50% investing, 50% favorite topics from podcast members, sharing literature, they love places, they've traveled, The kinds of things that I just just enjoy talking about. It's great.

Dylan Lewis: That feels like the right ratio to me, I don't know, 50/50 sounds about right. It seems like a natural opportunity for us to check in on the exchange itself because it's an exchange, but it's also a publicly traded company and also just the state of investing, because the Nasdaq itself is in a lot of ways, a proxy for the activity that we see out in the investing world. Andy a rough year for the Nasdaq.

Andy Cross: Well, for the stock itself is down, almost 20 percent probably. When you think about what is going on in the markets, the activity, the trading activity still coming off, the COVID premiums. The COVID times when so much individual investor activity and institutional activity was in the markets. So they're dealing a little bit with that lower volume. The IPO market has really slowed down. That has not happened, and that's affected Nasdaq's growth. Their growth has turned negative. Their sales growth has turned negative for the past few quarters that's showing up in the stock. It's not the fastest growing stock as it is historically however, they did have a really great surge in that 2021 period that showed up in the financials, and now they're coming off that, and that's reflected in the stock price. They made some acquisitions, levered the balance sheet up. Just some concerns, I think, with the investing community, whether Nasdaq, at what point do they get back to the growth days that represents a good stock value at what price that happens.

Dylan Lewis: As we always love seeing new names come out to the market because it's something new for us to check out as investors. I know Nasdaq in particular, very excited to see new names come out because it means more money for them as a business.

Asit Sharma: Absolutely. Nasdaq really thrives when multiple IPO's come out in a year. And that market is very healthy, It draws new investors in, and it also draws attention to all their proprietary products. When you have a great IPO market, it's a pipeline of volume interest as well. This has a really great payoff for Nasdaq and that institutional investors get excited. They want to have more products based on Nasdaq's IP. Then all the other suites of products that follow also get a boost. They have really branched out into compliance. Andy and I were talking about their financial anti-crimes unit for the taping. They are trying to really diversify that business away from being so volume dependent. When you have some IPO's that come to market, that bring interest, bring volume, it's good for the entire pipeline of their business.

Andy Cross: I'll just say Adena Friedman, who is the CEO, came on a few years ago. I think she's done a really admirable job through different choppy market period. She's brought a lot of tech focus, made lots of. Asit and I were talking, made lots of smaller little acquisitions that has take the balance sheet, the debt on the balance sheet up to a level that's now about 150% of equity. They have levered up that balance sheet is very profitable. They generated a lot of profits. They have operating margins. They've done a nice job maintaining their cost control, operating market margins. They're very respectable. What you would expect from a really large exchange driven business, that takes a little lick from the lollipop and to use Tom's metaphor. It's very profitable, and she's done a very nice job. But that balance sheet has gotten a little levered. And I think investors are wondering, OK, what is next? What's the next thing that's going to get that growth moving. Right now, you're not really paying a lot for the stock. You're only paying 18 times forward earnings and probably can grow in the mid single digit. You tell yourself is that, that's about a market multiple, is that what I'm willing to pay I think, we probably think that's about the returns you'll get from the stock going forward.

Dylan Lewis: The Nasdaq was yesterday. Today we are on the upper East side of New York City. For our event, we've got members, we've got fools on site. We have guest speakers and plenty of sessions I want to give our podcast listeners that can't be here. A little bit of a sneak peek at what you guys are excited about on the event agenda. Asit, what jumps out to you?

Asit Sharma: Well, I have to see Tom Gardner interview Michael Lewis, the author of Going Infinite. This is the book that Michael Lewis wrote about Sam Bankman-Fried and the stunning collapse of his trading company. It's been a controversial book out in the marketplace because those who have read it think that maybe Michael Lewis got a little too enamored of his subject and couldn't objectively see where Sam Bankman-Fried went wrong and couldn't see that. Perhaps this was just a big fraud perpetrated on behalf of Almada Trading, which is the trading arm of SBF's empire. I think Tom Gardner will give a really balanced interview. There's a lot in that book which is very interesting, gives you an inside view of the crypto world. I think this will be a possibly electric conversation and I can't miss it.

Dylan Lewis: You team me up too. Well, I was going to plug this and you just gave me the opportunity [laughs]. We're going to be having some of that conversation on Friday's radio show in our interview segment. We're going to be airing a lot of that conversation in our weekend show, this upcoming weekend as well. You look at the agenda. What do you see? What's exciting to you?

Andy Cross: Well, another interview that Tim Beyers is doing with Melissa Schilling, who is a professor of innovation at NYU. An exceptional thinker when it comes to innovation. She's written a lot about innovation. What makes great innovators? What are the qualities? She wrote one of her books, among many that publication she's written is called Quirky. The remarkable story of the traits, foibles, and genius of breakthrough innovators who changed the world. She looks at Albert Einstein and Benjamin Franklin, Elon Musk, Nicola Tesla, Thomas Edison, Marie Curry, a lot of the most wonderful thinkers when it comes to innovation. What are the qualities behind? What drives them? What are the good things? What are the bad things? Tim, in a wonderful tech focus, not exclusively tech focus but tech focus investor here at the Motley Fool. Thinks a lot about innovation, so I'm really interested to hear that conversation. What nuggets of information when it comes to innovators who really are the ones that are changing the world? Many of them are out in the public space. Many are not. Some of the qualities that those innovators have to get under the skin, so to speak of those innovators. Listen to Melissa talk about the factors that go into great innovation. I'm looking forward to Tim unwrapping that.

Dylan Lewis: One of the aims of these events is always to get stock ideas in front of our members. I know we have some sessions that are specifically geared toward that and I don't want to give away everything that we're going to be talking about. But I do want to get some stock ideas and some thoughts on a couple of companies from you guys out there for our podcast listeners. Asit, I'm going to start with you, what is a company that you feel in the full universe might be a little underappreciated or maybe just isn't getting enough attention this year?

Asit Sharma: Well, this may seem counter-intuitive because it's getting a lot of attention. But one company that I'm focused on is ASML. It's while widely followed in the full universe, it's maybe under load. It's almost in the two-hard pile. This is the company that makes some of the most complex machines on the planet. They specialize in deep ultraviolet lithography and extreme ultraviolet lithography. These processes are used to pack information on semiconductor chips and they power everything we do. They're powering this whole podcast today, among so many other things on our world. What I like about this company is if really a company past that five year horizon. We're always talking about holding stocks for at least five years. This is really a five to 10 to 15 year holding company. They have a tremendous backlog and they're projecting that next year will be flat. There are a lot of dynamics, I'm sure our members are familiar with. The Chinese market has come under restrictions from the US government. But the Chinese buy a lot of the DUV machines, so that's not as complex lithography. The EUV machines are the two-nanometer process, highly specialized machines. What really interests me is that Peter Wenick, the CEO, has said, "Look, we've never built our business country up. We never went to China thinking that's going to be our market. We've built our company macro up and macro down". What he means by that is that demand will persist. It'll go someplace else. You look around the world, there is a big fab coming up in Arizona. Japan is starting to build its own fabs after so many decades. They're going to be selling the highly complex EUV machines there. It's just a interesting company with great margins at the peak of their margin cycle. They do 30% plus operating margin Dylan on $30-40 billion of revenue. This is what they will achieve somewhere between 2025-2026. I think it's one that Fools should look more closely at, maybe dollar-cost average into a company like this.

Dylan Lewis: I'm going to throw a slightly different prompt at you. What is a company in the Fool Universe that has surprised you in 2023?

Andy Cross: For me, it's got to be Meta, which I know many are familiar with the operator of Facebook, WhatsApp, Messenger, Instagram to name a few. The business and the stock and the leadership of Mark Zuckerberg came under deep questions over the last two years. For good reasons as their business slowed, they made massive investments into Reality Labs, which has lost, gosh, more than $20 million or something exceptional as they made investments into the metaverse and changed the name. But this year, Dylan, the stock is up more than 150% I hope many members watching this, listening to this have held onto that stock because it has really outperformed as Mark Zuckerberg introduced his year of efficiency, which got a lot of press including from us. Talk a lot about bringing back cost discipline, talking about the focus of how artificial intelligence is playing with the metaverse. At the recent meta connect, they unveiled their meta glasses, talked a lot about different avatars in different ways that AI is going into Facebook and Instagram. Which I think are really quite cool. They're pretty neat when you think about the innovations they're making. The fact that this massive business, which is one of those big drivers of the Nasdaq index overall in the Nasdaq 100 up to more than 150%, the business is still kind of finding itself when it comes to its core advertising business, which has suffered. But they're starting to see a turnaround that business does well. They have do better on the profit margins. Maybe not lose as much on the Reality Lab side, you're just starting to see that come back. That really the stock was selling at a very reasonable cheap multiple earlier this year less than 20 times earnings and now it's rebounded to go up much more than that. But it's really surprised, so many of us, but for long term investors, the stock is over the last 10 years up more than 500% in the last five years. Both of those beat in the market, even including that big dip and then the rebound. It's been in the market over those time periods and certainly over the last year, so really impressive rebound for Meta the stock and Meta the business, and Zuckerberg, the CEO and founder.

Dylan Lewis: I think we all needed a little reminder that Facebook was in fact a digital ad business. We can turn that side a little bit. We are going to switch gears and start taking questions from the audience in just a minute. But for the folks that are not here in the audience, you can always write into podcasts at Fool.com and send your questions in there. For the folks that are here in person with us, we're going to be taking questions. Our producer over here, Mac Greer, is going to be going around with the microphone. If you have a question, raise your hand. We love questions about stocks, trends, and topics. Just as a general reminder, can't take any questions that would lead to personalized financial advice. I see one right there.

Andy Cross: It's a great question. PayPal, it certainly is a struggle as a business. As a new CEO coming in who came over the into it from the business side as Dan Schulman steps away, super competitive space in the payments as they continue to be the largest player in that world. By not inconsequential amount when you look at the accounts they serve through PayPal and Venmo, but it's gotten very competitive. The white board space, the product they have for that is not the PayPal brand is doing quite well, but it's a lower margin. That growth is doing well, but that part is not as high a margin. The new CEO is coming in. I'm excited to see what he can bring when it comes to the similar relationships he had on the into a business side to help continue to drive the business side to PayPal. Not just the consumer side with like many of us around here, but on the business side, but it is a very competitive space. The stock has gotten very cheap relative to its profits and importantly, free cash flow where they're going to use to buy back a lot of stock, which is good. But I've been saying it's gotten cheap for the past few months and it's gotten cheaper, unfortunately. I'm still a holder. I'm still encouraged by what we can see from PayPal, the brand, and the position they have. But it'll take some time for the new CEO to get his legs underneath him. But I think in general, PayPal continues to be a buy and one to hold for the next few years.

Asit Sharma: I agree with that, and will just add that the new CEO not only led the small business group into it, but was part of an executive group that really made a cohesive hole out of Mailchimp, out of the personal finance product, TurboTax. An understudy to Sasan Goodarzi who's really a master at figuring out, you've got all these desperate businesses, how do you make it into something that's really going to turn up the cash flow generation? This is what PayPal needs. Dan Schulman got enamored of the Superapps in China, and at one point he said, "I want to make a Superapp that does everything like Alibaba has." I think they lost some focus there. In an environment which is super competitive as you say Andy, they lost sight of what they have to do day in and day out and that's compete, and have a product that people will return to?

Andy Cross: I think that's right, Asit. When you think about the various brands and offerings, PayPal has bringing in someone who has experience in doing that, and a lot of success as Intuit. So much of the value of Intuit has been driven by the corporate side, and from the professional services side. Not just from those of us who use TurboTax, but as Asit mentioned, the Mailchimp bringing those together has been very successful for them. I'm very encouraged by what he will bring to PayPal. Furthermore, lastly, they handled that succession very well. Dan unlike others who have struggled with it, Disney, they handled it very well. They set a time line out, they gave updates to the market. They said that Dan Schulman will be here through the year, I think, through the time of that, and they met the deadline to be able to bring in the new CEO and keep Dan on board. That at least was inspiring that the leadership team is continuing to focus on the right things, and now the CEO will be on board, and I'll be excited to see what he brings.

Asit Sharma: Last point on that Andy, I agree they did a great job with that transition. But leading up to the transition, my bald spot got a little bigger with all the stress of waiting. What is Dan Schulman doing? For a moment, it looked like he just wanted to keep running PayPal, l and was trying to find a way to do that.

Andy Cross: You mean before the announcement.

Asit Sharma: Before the announcement, yeah.

Andy Cross: You're seeing that with CEOs. CEOs are sticking around longer and longer in S&P 500 companies for some reason. Legacy, I don't know what it is, money, not sure, but they are sticking around longer and longer, and that always is not in the benefit of shareholders. We love long time term CEOs, but those who tend to have founder tie ends.

Dylan Lewis: While we're waiting for another question. Andy, you mentioned succession there earlier, and I'm immediately thinking of the recent news of another Fool favorite, and some leadership changes there. We saw that Craig Jelinek was going to be living in Costco. I look at that and I say we have seen succession that maybe wasn't done all that well recently, you name checked Disney there. That seemed to me like one worth studying because we saw the promotion of someone who had been at the company for 40 years and maybe it was an example of succession done right.

Andy Cross: Well, an Old Dominion Freight Line did this maybe two years ago, they had the same thing. They had a long term executive or long term employee of Old Dominion Freight Line, which is a trucking company, and very successful. I think the most successful trucking company, logistics company in that space done exceptionally well for our scorecard, and hopefully for members who have also owned it. They did succession very well. They had tapped into a person, I didn't even know if they made an announcement, they were looking, they just made the announcement one day. I may have that wrong, but they did that well. You saw Costco coming in and doing it very well. It's not always that you can find someone inside your organization that can step in or maybe the business is going through a shift, and PayPal is going through a little bit of a strategic shift in some of their offerings away from just the consumer side. They needed some new blood for that, maybe they didn't have that. But there's lots of ways to do succession. Disney and Bob Iger have really struggled at it, and the board. Hopefully, they can get that right this time. Others have struggled through at different points. But ideally, I think the Costco Old Dominion Freight Lines, if you can do that, that is the preferred way to make the transition.

Asit Sharma: There's maybe a more global point here that occurs to me, Andy and Dylan. It's interesting, the best companies, the ones that have these super strong cultures, and have been around for decades like Costco, Old Dominion Freight Line, they mirror mobile societies. If you have a society in which you can move up, there's upward mobility economically. If you find a company which keeps promoting from within, you can start as a forklift driver, end up as the CEO decades later, it says something about that culture, that it's seeking talent, it's seeking innovation, and it pushes that up the value chain. It doesn't seek to dispose of people quickly, or hire from without, and look at their employees as transactional pieces.

Dylan Lewis: I think we have another question out in the crowd. I'd love if you're comfortable your name and your question.

Ed Deli: Sure my name is Ed Deli. Question is the 10-year rate was above, I think, 5% this morning. I'd be curious just about how you guys think about, or to what extent you take into account interest rates in thinking about investments or companies you want to invest in, particularly in the growth area?

Dylan Lewis: Before Andy hops in on this one, Andy brought this up in our prep meeting this morning and was like, are we going to talk about this? Is this something that's going to make it on to today's show? 

Andy Cross: Asit you want to go, you want to jump in first?

Asit Sharma: Well, obviously the implications are far reaching because two things happen simultaneously. If you're an investor who looks for cash flow growth, then those cash flows are worth a little less in the future because the cost of financing your business is going up. Simultaneously, if you are a stock investor, you're looking over your shoulder. I certainly have moved money into some CDs, some money market funds over the past year. Even though I'm an avid investor, I invest in index funds, invest in so many individual stocks that draws money away from the equity markets. I think the implications are, however you look at it, whether you think this is shorter term and the Fed will reverse a little bit as the US economy normalizes, or you think we're in a new normal period for the next 10 years? You focus shouldn't change as an investor, you're always trying to find companies that can grow in excess of their industry, in excess of competitors, in excess of the effects of inflation and interest rates. Those with super strong balance sheet maybe that aren't over-levered are in a prime position to do that now. My focus is more on companies that are equity-funded and have put earnings on their balance sheet through retained earnings. They've built up resources over time. They already are in markets that are pulling the products forward. They innovate very fiercely. Those are going to have a great return vis-a-vis companies that are over levered. Those that are getting caught up in the fact that look, the 10 year is up at 5%, our bridge debt, if we need it, is up at nine or 10%. I think for investors it's the same as it always was. Find great companies, run by management teams that know how to use those resources and build them, and keep some on the balance sheet, they don't distribute everything else.

Andy Cross: I think the question is as Asit said, in some ways, it's the way it always has been. As Warren Buffett has said, and I've mentioned this before. He considers interest rates to financial assets is like gravity to physical assets. The higher the interest rates, the lower the value of financial assets, the higher the gravity, the more pull on those physical assets. Interest rates are very important when you go through your analysis as an analyst and think about what is the value of future cash flows? How do I think those cash flows are going to grow? What is the balance sheet going to look like? All of those very nuanced things when it comes to investing. However, you can also get too far down into the weeds if there's too much focus on trying to get the very specifics around that rather than really trying to find businesses that over the next five years are going to be more meaningful than they are today, management teams we can believe in maybe a founder structure either has a founder ownership or other investors that we have a lot of confidence in, a business model that can succeed and hopefully eventually, either now or very soon those profits and cash flows can grow and accrue such that the return on the investments they're making far exceeds the cost of that capital which now has gone up to well North of gosh. If you think about most of those companies where you might be thinking about a cost of capital in the 7-8% range a few years ago, now those costs of capital are up to nine, 10% maybe even higher. Then for growth companies, the cost of that capital even goes up higher especially if they don't have the ability to sustain their own growth, and they have to go to others to be able to fund that. That's one of the key principle of Rule Breaker Investing is trying to find businesses that can sustain their own. They have the balance sheet or the model to be able to sustain their own growth rather than rely on others. If you have to rely on others, that's a lot more expensive these days than it was three years ago, and that is going to impact the profitability of the company. That's where as Asit was saying, paying attention to it and thinking about it, or looking out over the next few years is something we do think a lot about.

Dylan Lewis: I think we're looking at about eight or 10 minutes left, and we certainly have time for another couple of questions from the audience. But if I'm not mistaken, I think, Andy, you might have a question that you want to ask the crowd.

Andy Cross: I was just going to say how many have moved money into a high yield savings account in the past 12 months? Then a high-yield savings account is probably 4.5 percentage, something around there. Well, I guess so that's not surprising because money chases yield as it should, and sometimes that money chases the yield in very short-term nature, and sometimes it's hopefully a little bit longer term when you think about our investment. The ability for a company to be able to return on its cost of capital and its assets, to be able to grow the stock price many years ahead. But in the short term, that now has a very steep competition. I think we talked about this a little bit last night. Some of the Q&A that now rather than putting it into the market, you might see people starting to put money more into alternatives for the first time. A high-yield savings account that's taken maybe some activity out of the market. Nasdaq is seeing it maybe in their trading activities. All of these things do matter as an analyst when we're thinking about studying our businesses and talking about the opportunities, but also understanding as, as Asit said, a lot of it still in many ways hasn't changed the approach we think about trying to identify the businesses over the next five years that are going to be the winners for us.

Dylan Lewis: Looking out to the crowd to see. I'll make sure I'm not missing any questions. In the meantime, I'll ask one. Thinking about the higher rate environment and just what it means for businesses, I generally think of it being something that forces discipline both for investors because there are other decisions out there. But just in the internal decisions that companies make and maybe the way we should judge some of those internal decisions in terms of how they're putting capital to work. Asit, do you feel like you have seen other companies do that really well over the last year or maybe companies not do that so well? You mentioned Meta before?

Asit Sharma: Yeah, I think that we're seeing a lot of normalization of utilization of resources. Companies that were very free-wheeling when markets were going up and capital was easy to come by, they made a lot of undisciplined decisions. Now there is a certain class of companies, big tech companies in particular, that just have so much firepower that it doesn't matter in good times, they can afford to be lax. When money tightens up, they don't need it, as Meta did and Amazon did, they make a show of letting go like whole tranches of employees. Even those are a small percentage of the total employee base, but I think you're seeing now that companies are worrying about this idea. If money is at 5% and as Andy was alluding to, for those of you who model spreadsheets like 10% is the new 8%.

Andy Cross: Yeah, right.

Asit Sharma: If hurdle is higher then the decision I'm making today really needs to go through a finer process. We talked about this in an internal meeting on our research team the other day. Companies don't think like you and me. We look at the debt holders, the equity holders, we try to figure out what is the cost of capital? What's the incremental return on that? Companies model by project. All they do at the beginning of the process is to say is the net present value of these cash flows coming in going to be greater than the net present value of the cash flows going out. They start with a very simple equation, those companies that are in manufacturing especially, and then they build it up from there. I think so many businesses that we love lost a little bit of that basic nuts and bolts thinking over the past few years. Now you can bet that division managers all are looking down to the micro level to see what's being expended from coffee to the cost of projects. We're seeing a lot of that. I think just to name one company, no one is doing that better than Amazon.com. They have really worked through every single reporting operating unit in their business and asked, number 1, is this essential? Number 2, what's the return on this? Andrew Jassy, we often forget, he was the CEO of the Cloud business. He grew Amazon Web Services. He's a fierce competitor, and he's going back to the roll-up-your-sleeves discipline. I really like to see that. I think that can also have a bad part of the spectrum too. Andy, you can go overboard in trying to optimize your business and lose sight of culture.

Andy Cross: Well, certainly. If that basically is driving your investment case is cost efficiency cutting the bottom line, that's going to help the profit picture in the near term as we're starting to see. But at what cost? Long term. Another company we could have featured about the surprising is Shopify when they sold off their logistics business that they put a lot of money into over the last year and a half, and then they sold it off to Flexport. If anyone has been following the drama that's happening in the logistics space and the challenges, Flexport's having their CEO, their founder back into the mix, they let go of the former CEO who we had a lot of respect from, who came over from the Amazon side, I think?.

Asit Sharma: I think so.

Andy Cross: He came over from the Amazon side and help Amazon build their logistics business up. Those investments, the decision that Shopify and that board made and the consequences when it comes to their employee base, their asset base, that was a very bold decision. Obviously, Tobi Lütke put out a lot of different written pieces about a little bit of egg on my face, the learnings I had. Those kinds of decisions, those are the investments that when you look in the new environment, companies are being forced to make now because the cost of capital, the inflation rates, the cost of their employee base is just so much different than it was two or three years ago. As investors, we should be looking to the board, holding the board accountable for that, and to the CEO, and making sure they are making the right decisions, both in the short term, but without killing the golden goose that might be those long-term returns. That's a balance that we talk about a lot on the team. The investments they're making for today versus the investments they're making longer term and what are those investments and how long they're going to pay off and will be the right ones.

Dylan Lewis: I think we are just up on our time. But Andy, Asit, thank you guys so much for sharing your insights. I want to thank all of our one members here for coming and also just asking questions. This was probably one of the easiest podcast tapings I've ever reported because I'm going to have to ask all the questions. You, guys, took care for me. I'm going to wrap up the show as I always do with our disclosure in our out raw. As always, people in the program may own stocks mentioned on the show and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against. Don't buy or sell anything based solely on what you hear. I'm Dylan Lewis, live from New York. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.