Here's another fun, knowledge-building episode of Rule Breaker Investing.
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This video was recorded on March 6, 2024.
David Gardner: Last year I began hinting that we do more Market Cap Game Show in 2024. We'll call it a New Year's resolution and we're fulfilling on this one. This week, next week, and the week after make up our first-ever March Market Cap Madness. A final four of past champions coming back to compete this March for our 2024 national championship, the Market Cap Game Show, national championship, that's right. We have our own March Madness on this podcast, our final four this year, Andy Cross, Emily Flippen, Bill Mann, and Matt Argersinger. This week features Andy Cross and Emily Flippen and you.
That's right, you're playing, too, you and any friends you may be competing against on your own this week, you will also generate a final score from 0-10, can you outscore my talented contestants? It's March Market Cap Madness, only on this week's Rule Breaker Investing. Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing, what a wonderful week it was last week with my friends Jason Moore, Dave Geck, Jumm, Jason Trice, the venerable Adam Nelson, Mike McMahon, and Jason Newman, a really special campfire of longtime fellow Fools, a delight to show them off. The wisdom you should come to expect from fellow Fools, especially vintage fellow Fools, reminds me of just being in a Motley Fool gathering and how much I enjoy meeting new and old Fools.
Thank you again to the Mailbag 100 crew. I'm joined this week by Market Cap Game Show past champions Andy Cross and Emily Flippen, and of course, the third player, to us, the most important is you. That's right, you, our dear fellow Fool. Let me just briefly remind especially new players, I'll be mentioning a stock, neither Andy nor Emily knows what stock is coming. I'll turn to one of them to start talking about whatever stock they didn't know it was coming, and that Fool will do their best to state a numerical range within which the market cap falls.
The other contestant and you playing at home, we'll simply say, I agree, meaning it's accurate, the stock's value falls inside the stated range or I disagree, I think it's outside that stated range. You simply agree or disagree and if you get it right, give yourself a plus one. That's the Market Cap Game Show, we're focused on the real market caps for real stocks, nobody knows what's coming, a perfect score would be 10. Andy Cross works on Stock Advisor, Backstage and with my brother Tom Gardner on his Everlasting services like Hidden Gems, he's also our Chief Investment Officer, helping our Motley Fool investment teams produce the best guidance and experience for you our members and listeners. Andy, welcome.
Andy Cross: Hi, David, great to be here. Thanks for having me.
David Gardner: Andy, a personal question for you. I've done this before in the show, we'll do it later in the show as well. Are you ready?
Andy Cross: I am ready. Go ahead.
David Gardner: Have you done your taxes over the years?
Andy Cross: I'm all into it TurboTax for going on 12 years now, before that, I used a family accountant friend, but then I realized that that family accountant friend was charging us a lot more money than TurboTax would charge us. Now, with all the information they have and all the tools at my fingertips for TurboTax, I find it quite effective.
David Gardner: If you've been doing it for 10-plus years, that is its own habit and something that would be hard to break, especially because it sounds like it's working for you.
Andy Cross: Because my wife was using TurboTax as well and they just seamlessly brought them together. That's very helpful and a lot less stressful and costly I think with using external folks.
David Gardner: You've already mentioned stock No. 1. You might have been expecting this given how we started the conversation. Stock No. 1 is Intuit, ticker symbol INTU. Quicken back in the day, that's how I first met Intuit, it was an off-the-shelf product in Babbage's or Egg Heads or some bricks-and-mortar software retail store, but certainly obviously adding in TurboTax and other aspects of the business and adding in QuickBooks over the years, Mint, this is a spoiler alert. This is a big company. Oh my gosh, is that the throwdown sound? Yes, it's a throwdown round on stock No. 1. Now, to remind our players at home, both Andy and Emily will now write down their market cap range for Intuit.
Pencils out, Fools. All you have to do, a player at home is, once Andy and Emily state their market caps, decide which you want to go with. Does Andy's range seem more plausible to you or does Emily's? If you guess right, give yourself a point. By the way, there's a chance they'll both be right, especially if they use wide ranges. If they're both right, the tighter range wins the point. If they're both wrong, that would never happen. But if it ever did, whoever is closer to the actual market cap would get that plus one. Again, this is a throwdown, we do this twice every show. I want to thank again Sam "Sudden Death" Stevens for this good thought and improvement to our game show. This is a throwdown stock No. 1, Intuit. Andy, I'm going to turn to you first. What is your market cap range for Intuit?
Andy Cross: I have $160 billion, David and Emily, to $220 billion.
David Gardner: $160 billion to $220 billion. Emily Flippen, what is your stated market cap range for Intuit?
Emily Flippen: Well, the good news for the listeners is that there's a very small chance that we overlap. [laughs] My market cap range is $120 billion to $169 billion.
David Gardner: Listeners at home say it right now, it's either Andy or Emily, 3, 2,1. You said it. If you said Andy, give yourself a plus one, Emily, not bad, close, but it's $177.9 billion so near the top of your range, but solidly within Andy's slightly more generous, he gave himself a little bit more generosity on his range, 160-220. Andy, did you feel like you had that one nailed from the get-go?
Andy Cross: Well, I actually wrote down at first. David, what did you see the market cap was 179.9?
David Gardner: 177.9.
Andy Cross: Because I first wrote down a 140 to a 180, so I would've missed it if I shrunk a little bit, so no, I figured somewhere between a 100 and 200, and then I just guessed a little on the higher side.
David Gardner: Well done Andy. By the way, how much did you save by moving from a guy to software?
Andy Cross: Well, it's at least I would think $100 per year. Probably a couple of decades call it at least 10-15 years. Do you invest that into the S&P 500, which is annualized 11% per year real returns acting on inflation, had I invested into that, that money I saved from switching to Intuit, I would have a nice little piggy bank full of cash, which is nice.
David Gardner: The software keeps up with you. I haven't used a TurboTax in a long time myself, but I assume it pre-enters your name each time you don't have to retype in stuff.
Andy Cross: Well, that's the real beauty and the value of it and as my life has gotten financially a little bit more complex with kids and all that, it just keeps up with that and I've added solutions onto there. Now of course, they tie in lots of different services there that I don't use, but it's all there and I find it very valuable. By the way, I've not yet done my taxes this year, so I'm a little behind the curve, I have to get going with this nice little reminder thank you.
David Gardner: A little bit of separate March Madness for you and us. Let's move on to stock No. 2. Emily Flippen works on the Stock Advisor and Blast-Off teams here at The Motley Fool, aiming to find great growth-oriented investments for our members. In addition, she plugs in fun content for our members like podcasts, for example, this one, as well as works as a manager on our investment team. Emily, great to have you back.
Emily Flippen: Good to be here. I am a little bit worried about my showing after the last question, but the good news that I think listeners always forget about the Market Cap Game Show is there's a psychological component to this game, too. I'm looking at Andy, I'm measuring his level of confidence and while I might not know the answer, I can get a good read about where Andy might go and I think that'll help me.
Andy Cross: I think Emily is far superior at that skill than I am.
David Gardner: Let's hope she brings it to bear here for stock No. 2. Emily, you appeared most recently on television on was it the 45th season of Survivor?
Emily Flippen: It was, and if you haven't watched it yet, I encourage you skip episode 1, start with episode 2.
David Gardner: Nice, we may talk about that a little bit later, but for now, you were occasionally hungry.
Emily Flippen: Occasionally. I did go two weeks without eating anything, so it depends on your definition of occasionally.
David Gardner: Could you explain exactly what it's like to go two weeks without eating anything?
Emily Flippen: Way easier than you think it's going to be. I had never gone a full day without eating prior to this experience. When you're not surrounded by food, you don't have the option to eat, it's amazing how little time you spend thinking about it.
David Gardner: Did you ever have dreams of food like Stouffer's mac and cheese, or was there a craving, a specific one at any point?
Emily Flippen: Yes. The one thing that I remember myself and my tribemates coming back to was Chipotle bowls. Everybody just went to sit down with a big steak Chipotle bowl, it had the good combination of the guacamole, the protein, that carbs, that was the thing that everybody craved.
David Gardner: Phenomenally and coincidentally, ticker symbol CMG is stock No. 2. I randomize this every game show from the 500 stocks of greatest interest to our members, what I think of as our Fool 500, lesser known than the S&P 500, but I love our Fool 500 and I randomized this one and you went right there. Let's stay there Emily Flippen. The ticker symbol for Chipotle Mexican Grill is CMG. Emily, what is your stated market cap range for Chipotle Mexican Grill?
Emily Flippen: I think there's a lot of former Survivor contestants that are keeping this chain afloat. But I know they sell a lot of bowls to everybody of all types and all walks of life and for that reason, I'm going to give them a range of $60 [billion]-$70 billion.
David Gardner: Sixty to seventy billion. Andy Cross, players at home. Andy, before you agree or disagree, do you eat at Chipotle?
Andy Cross: Yes. By the way, the Chipotle app is phenomenal. Pretty good.
David Gardner: It is phenomenal and maybe it's worth an extra bill here or there in the market cap. We'll find out what you think. Emily said $60 [billion]-$70 billion. Big round numbers. Do you want to agree or disagree?
Andy Cross: Well, it was very quick and it's a tight range, I think. I think I'm going to disagree. I think she's generally OK, but I'm going to disagree with that range.
David Gardner: If you agree with Andy, give yourself another plus one, she was close once again. By the way, we're recording this on Tuesday afternoon, March 5. All of the market caps are down a little bit this day, but this is all up to date, if you're listening on Wednesday when this comes out yesterday afternoon, when Chipotle weighed in at $74.5 billion, which is quite close. Emily, to your $60 [billion]-$70 billion range, but Andy said outside. Listeners at home, if you also said outside, give yourself a plus one. Right now Andy has a lead of two to nothing. Emily, I see, obviously you're upset. I mean, it's going to come naturally to someone who's competitive as you are.
Emily Flippen: Well, I'm more upset that Andy can read me like a book apparently because I was not overly confident about this market cap. But I thought, well surely after my commentary and that nice tight range I gave, surely he would agree with me. Now my entire strategy for this game show has gone out the door. [LAUGHTER]
David Gardner: Well, you still have a lot of time to come back. Again, listeners at home, you might be at zero, one, or two, but let's keep plusing up from here. By the way, fun fact, Chipotle has never split its stock. It first came to Motley Fool Rule Breakers, thanks to the ingenious Rick Munarriz who picked this stock. Here's the cost basis friends and fellow Fools, $60 and 60 cents. That's easy to remember. That's why I remember it. I remember easy-to-remember things. 60.60. With the stock weighing in just over $2,700 today, it's been a fantastic investment for Motley Fool members, especially those early days of Rule Breakers, just buying and holding. All right, onto company No. 3. Andy, what do you make of activist investors?
Andy Cross: I know them. I don't put much stock in, pun intended, what they are trying to do because often I think it is more short-term focus as opposed to really long-term value creation.
David Gardner: I suppose because we always have new listeners and I hope people who are new to the stock market, maybe the phrase activist investor doesn't mean something to everyone. Could you briefly define what we mean when we start talking about activist investor?
Andy Cross: Sure. It's an investor who takes a position in a stock or has a position in a company and uses that position, sometimes very small positions, and they use that to try to leverage influence with the board of directors, make a change of the governance, changing strategy, change in leadership, whatever it might be but they start a campaign and they usually try to combine and partner with other investors to exert influence over the company.
David Gardner: Well defined. Andy, briefly, give us what they are at their best and then what they are when they're at their worst.
Andy Cross: Well, I think I'll start with the worst. It's when they are very small positions and they have very loud voices. Their history is either nonexistent or they have more of a history of trying to earn short-term profits and then exiting positions after they've made or tried to make some changes one way or the other. That's probably at its worst, I think. At its best, it's someone who maybe owns a lot of shares in a stock, a meaningful amount, especially if it is a meaningful amount of their overall net worth or their overall position, and they have a much more partnership mentality to owning and growing the businesses rather than trying to make short-term changes.
David Gardner: Excellent. There's a quick chapter entry under the glossary, activist investors for our Rule Breaker Investing listeners. Thank you, Andy Cross. What if I told you that a Dow Jones Industrial Average company, one of the 30 components of that venerable index, what if I told you that with the Dow Jones Industrial Average up 175%, which is exactly what it's up over the past 10 years, one of those companies is actually down 30% over the last 10 years. First of all, do you have any idea which company I'm thinking of?
Andy Cross: I do.
David Gardner: Guess.
Andy Cross: Disney.
David Gardner: That is not the one, but I am disappointed as a longtime Disney shareholder to reflect on that and think about that and I'm not sure whether you know that or you were just guessing at that, but it's been up and down 10 years.
Andy Cross: Yes. It has been.
David Gardner: The big mouse.
Andy Cross: Yeah. There's a lot of action going on right now as Emily and I and others on the team, Stock Advisor team, talk about this at the board level with other activist shareholders.
David Gardner: Well, Disney has been a fantastic long-term holding for me personally and I think for many listening, if you've held it for a long time, back to the Pixar days, the Marvel buyout, etc. but this company I picked in Stock Advisor, I'm just checking it, Sept. 15th, 2017. It's been about cut in half since then. Now as a block, maybe if we pulled all of our Motley Fool Stock Advisor members together and started acting up like activists. We might actually be able to force a change. Do you think that the 3M Company is due for some change?
Andy Cross: Oh boy, 3M has been a real underperformer, which is unfortunate because when you go back and think about, gosh, I don't know how long 3M has been around, but it's more than 100 years, I believe.
David Gardner: Correct.
Andy Cross: You think about innovation, you think about all of the amount of products they've created in lots of different industries. That innovation just has seemed to be almost vanished when it comes to the value of the market. Of course now they have a lots of different challenges on the legal side.
David Gardner: Five businessmen by the way founded the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company as a mining venture. It was in Two Harbors, Minnesota, never been. They made their first sale on, Wikipedia says, June 13th, 1902. That's 121-plus years ago. Started as mining and of course, one of the Ms continues to this day to be the word mining, even though most of us just say 3M and the ticker symbol is MMM. Andy Cross, what is your stated market cap range for this long-term underperformer that I'm sorry, I picked in 2017? They make me look a little sorry.
Andy Cross: I'm going to say for 3M, unfortunately, I will say somewhere between $35 billion and $55 billion.
David Gardner: Thirty-five billion to 55 billion players at home, and Emily Flippen agree or disagree? Before you say, give us a sentence or two of insider thought, your reaction to 3M.
Emily Flippen: Well, first of all, this is a business I should know the market cap of because as somebody who works in the Stock Advisor team, we do circle back on this pick fairly frequently, David. It's not in our penalty box right now. It's still on the scorecard, but its persistent underperformance and I think a general lack of conviction, I don't know if it's from the management team or just from the feeling that our analysts have behind the business. I think there's a belief that maybe there's not a long-term vision for the company the way there once was. That being said, when I heard you say 3M, my mind immediately said maybe $50 [billion]-$60 billion, which means that Andy's range has me a little bit uncomfortable. The safe thing to do would be to agree with Andy, but I think he might have gone too small here. I think I'm going to have to disagree. Oh no, can I take it back? [laughs] Can I rewind 30 seconds?
David Gardner: There are no do-overs in the Market Cap Game Show. Andy had it right. Now, he did give himself a fair amount of berth and you were right to have that initial instinct that he might have had it right? 3M tipping the scales at $51.3 billion today. Andy, speaking of threes, you've taken a 3-0 lead with 3M.
Andy Cross: Well, I didn't even trust my own self on that range there, Emily. Again, yes. Because we both work on Stock Advisor. But just sometimes you're thinking price, sometimes you're thinking market cap.
David Gardner: We want you to think about market cap all the time.
Andy Cross: I should if I know now, there's going be a Market Cap annual March Madness that I'm competing for. Yes, that surprised myself a little bit. I'm happy, but as I said it, I thought, "No, I'm too high."
David Gardner: To my knowledge, there is no present activist investor, but it's the kind of company that might be due for extra scrutiny because it is a big, long-term American enterprise that has had many a proud day and yet checking back and seeing that 175% gain in the Dow Jones in the last 10 years and 3M going the opposite direction, losing a third of its value. Alright, onto stock No. 4, Emily Flippen. You're a Texas native.
Emily Flippen: I am.
David Gardner: Were you born in Texas?
Emily Flippen: I was actually born in D.C. but raised in Texas.
David Gardner: Oh, my gosh.
Emily Flippen: I probably just angered a lot of real Texas natives by answering yes to that question.
David Gardner: You weren't born in Texas, but a lot of great things were born in Texas and you spent most of your life thus far in Texas. Emily, what are some other things born in Texas, are associated with Texas that you're proud of?
Emily Flippen: I mean, obviously, longhorns come to mind. Beautiful pastures and fields, but more importantly, a nice juicy steak. I think I know where this might be going.
David Gardner: You might think that, but it may not be headed there, but we are going to stay in Texas and talk about something born in Texas. The date was March 9, 1967. I don't know whether Herb Kelleher at the time foresaw one day he would be in charge of a public company and as Southwest Airlines founder, I assume Herb picked the ticker symbol LUV, which is one of the more distinctive ticker symbols you will find on any index. It's not even about healthcare or gifts. This is an airline. Southwest Airlines has been a stellar performer for much of its history, although in recent years maybe not so much, but who cares about that? All we care about Emily Flippen is, born in Texas, the market cap range for Southwest Airlines, ticker symbol LUV.
Emily Flippen: I haven't the first clue for Southwest and I'm OK saying that because Andy looks somewhat cocky while I say that [laughs] he looked cocky when he started talking about Southwest, which leads me to believe he probably knows the answer. My psychological games aren't working anyway, so I could use this time to try to justify and buy myself minutes. I'm comparing to, I'm trying to think about Alaska Airlines or Hawaiian Airlines, both of which are on the Stock Advisor scorecard. Both of which are smaller than I think you might assume they are. Airlines have really big names, but when it comes to the physical assets themselves, I think naturally lean a little bit smaller than you might assume. I'm going to, at the risk of either grossly overestimating or grossly underestimated, take middle-ground approach to Southwest Airlines and say, I think this is a $3 [billion] to $7 billion company.
David Gardner: All right, $3 billion to $7 billion players at home. Andy Cross, do you want to agree or to disagree?
Andy Cross: I will disagree.
David Gardner: You didn't hesitate, Andy, what's going on in your head with this one?
Andy Cross: Well, I think this is somewhere in the high teens to low 20 on the billion mark.
David Gardner: $20.53 billion to take it out to an extra decimal point, so, Andy, you have taken a commanding 4-nothing.
Emily Flippen: I'm just waiting for my comeback at the end. Don't worry, I'm playing the long game.
David Gardner: Emily, have you flown Southwest back and forth from Dallas to Washington, D.C.?
Emily Flippen: I have, I'm more of a Spirit flyer myself though.
David Gardner: As long as we're talking about airlines. Andy, what's your favorite airline?
Andy Cross: Southwest. Although I do like British Airways.
David Gardner: Thank you. Andy, you're up 4-nothing, so you got that going for you, too. All right, let's move on. Slight spoiler alert here. Let's move on to something much lesser known. Andy, have you ever been to Bermuda?
Andy Cross: No.
David Gardner: I don't think Southwest Airlines flies there.
Andy Cross: I don't know, I've never been there, so I've never tried.
David Gardner: Now, you and I are East Coasters. You grew up in the state of Pennsylvania. One of the fun things about Bermuda is it's not far off the East Coast. It's kind of by itself out there.
Andy Cross: Far more North than most people realize.
David Gardner: That's right. As an island, it's never had snakes. It's an island that started without snakes and to this day, to my knowledge anyway, no snakes on Bermuda.
Andy Cross: Wow, even in today's age with all the trade, no snakes have managed to weasel their way onto the board of some ship.
David Gardner: It's true and it's beautiful. I think with our family we've been there three or four times. I highly recommend it to everyone listening. Andy, I know close to nothing about this next company. Maybe you do, too, but I think this is within the sphere of services that you've worked on. The Bank of N.T. Butterfield and Son. I mean, I didn't even know there was a public company that had that name. The ticker symbol, by the way, is NTB for N.T. Butterfield. I see you both smiling. I'm not quite sure why.
Andy Cross: Well, I have not thought about NTB unfortunately, in about a year, but we have recommended it over during the last four or five years. Tom and I and some other analysts did use to follow it and we know of it from its Bermuda kind of days but haven't kept up to speed with it in the past.
David Gardner: Got it. I mean, again, I know next to nothing about this company, but Wikipedia is one of my best friends and most people just call it Butterfield or Butterfield Bank. It is technically the Bank of N.T. Butterfield and Son Limited. It was founded I see here in 1858. It's had a lot of time to compound its market cap, presumably, but more important, Andy Cross, what is your stated market cap range for Butterfield Bank, ticker symbol NTB?
Andy Cross: I don't think it's compounded all that much over the years, I will say. I'm going to say $2 [billion] to $3.3 billion.
David Gardner: $2 [billion] to $3.3 billion. Emily Flippen, had you heard of Butterfield Bank before today's show?
Emily Flippen: I hadn't, but now I'm wondering if I should have.
David Gardner: I'm wondering how this multigenerational bank has escaped our notice for 150 years.
Emily Flippen: I'm assuming this bank is based in Bermuda.
David Gardner: It is.
Emily Flippen: With main operations in Bermuda.
David Gardner: Yeah. I love multigenerational family companies. I hope we're creating one here at The Motley Fool. I assume this is probably, maybe Andy knows, is this still under control of any fourth, fifth-generation Butterfielders?
Andy Cross: Yeah. I honestly, don't recall.
David Gardner: We don't know that much about ticker symbol NTB, but I know this much. Andy said $2 billion to $3.3 billion. Emily Flippen, let's see if you can get on the scoreboard here. Do you want to agree or disagree with Andy?
Emily Flippen: My first instinct was, Bermuda is a small country. This is a company I've never heard of before. It can only be such a compounder to your previous point. But on the flip side, Andy's market cap range was much higher than I was expecting and there's a lot of companies that are headquartered in Bermuda, so maybe the Bermuda banking scene is a lot more developed that I'm giving it credit for. But because my first instinct was to think less than $2 billion, I'm going to have to perhaps ignorantly disagree.
David Gardner: Score one for Emily Flippen, who will also find out that it's a British overseas territory. Just so you know. It's part of the U.K.
Emily Flippen: Well, don't quiz on our geography.
David Gardner: If you just start going east from North Carolina, it's off the coast of North Carolina. If you just go that direction. I didn't know. It's an archipelago consisting of 181 islands, but at least for me, it's just one island and it's a lovely destination. The market cap of Butterfield Bank is $1.45 billion, so a little bit under Andy's market cap range, Emily, it's comeback time.
Emily Flippen: By default, I get that point, but I'll take that point because at least it means I'm on the board now.
David Gardner: Have you ever worked with small banks either as a customer or stock research?
Emily Flippen: I never have. I struggle with financials. They're such a unique beast and it's been outside of my area of expertise. I've unfortunately never, I guess, pushed myself to get out of my comfort zone there. But after this showing, I owe Butterfield, at least one point, so I think I owe Butterfield another look.
David Gardner: God bless them. I hope things are well for the Butterfields, Andy, it has been over 100 years now and the market cap is just $1.5 billion.
Andy Cross: Yeah. That's a long time and it does cater very much to the Bermudian culture and the Bermudian lifestyle, so all those who live in Bermuda and around there.
David Gardner: Kind of a lender to small businesses, is that sort of.
Andy Cross: Yeah. Wealthy individuals. So yeah.
David Gardner: We're at halftime. Andy Cross, 4; Emily Flippen, 1. I know this is part of our national championship, but we've cut bait, we've reduced costs, we have no halftime follies. Let's move on to stock No. 6. Emily, if you were to name the fifth-best-known living CEO. The fifth-best-known living CEO. Who would that be?
Emily Flippen: It's such an interesting question because there needs to be a name [laughs].
David Gardner: Slightly random as well.
Emily Flippen: That's familiar but not too familiar. The one that, I'm sure this is inaccurate, but I think it's directionally correct. The one that's coming to mind most readily is Dan Ek, the founder and CEO of Spotify, big enough company, consumer-facing enough that maybe people are familiar with his name, but still not based in the United States, still small relative to more popular companies.
David Gardner: I have to admit I could not have named the CEO of Spotify. I assume you would have Andy, yeah. I'm a little bit out of the game right now, but he wouldn't have even been on my list.
Emily Flippen: That's a bad sign then.
David Gardner: Not at all. But that means he's just off your Mount Rushmore, Emily, because I asked you the fifth, so in your mind, who are the four best-known living CEOs?
Emily Flippen: Well, there's no way to have this conversation without talking about Elon Musk, who I imagine is probably the No. 1 most popular CEO for better or for worse. Elon Musk at the top of my list, Buffett is something that I'm not sure if people still associate him with being a CEO so much as he is just a guru in general. But Berkshire Hathaway and Buffett have to also be on that Mount Rushmore. Then I'm thinking about current CEOs Tim Cook over at Apple or Satya Nadella, both probably rank up highly.
David Gardner: Sure. Well, and one of those CEOs is the CEO of company No. 6, a little company I like to call Tesla, ticker symbol TSLA. Emily, you went right there, No. 1, and that probably is true. This is not an objective question I was asking. This is a subjective read. But when I think about who is the best-known living CEO in the world today, I think I agree that the answer is Elon Musk and not just of one company, which is pretty fascinating when you think about that, Emily, more to the point. What is your stated market cap range for Tesla, ticker symbol TSLA?
Emily Flippen: One of the first times I was on the Market Cap Game Show with Aaron Bush, we talked about Tesla. I remember at the time the market cap was somewhere around 68 billion because I was really prepared for that show, and Aaron knew the market cap down to 10 of the millions and naturally beat me. Since then, Tesla has been an absolute beast. I know its market cap. It's one of the largest companies in the world today. I'm going to hesitantly, but with strong conviction at the same time, [laughs] say that my estimate for the market cap of Tesla is $550 [billion]-$680 billion.
David Gardner: Five hundred fifty billion dollars to $680 billion. Andy, your body language is a little negative. It's ambiguous, but you right away lowered your head, put your hand over your eyes. It looks like you're thinking deeply but you're not smiling and right away coming up with an answer.
Andy Cross: No, because, well, my answer is outside, but the high end of Emily's range threw me for a little bit of a loop. I think it's a little bit higher than that, so I'm going to say outside of Emily's range.
David Gardner: If you agreed with Andy, you don't get a point because Emily nailed it again. Tesla's market cap as we speak, is $574.25 billion, certainly within Emily's range of 550 to 680, so Emily and Emily fans give yourself a plus one, it's 4 to 2. Our Rule Breakers cost basis looks pretty sweet these days. We also have it in Stock Advisor and others, but just looking back, $2.10. Looking pretty great with the stock right up there, about $180. It's one of 640-plus baggers that Motley Fool Rule Breakers has delivered to its fans over the years and what a spectacular performer it's been. Yet Emily, this stock is actually down almost a third of its value just in the first few months of this year.
Emily Flippen: Which I think gives context to Andy's guess probably that it was on the higher end there. I also thought that if my range was inaccurate, it was inaccurate because it was too low.
Andy Cross: It wasn't long ago that Tesla was above that $1 trillion.
David Gardner: Correct.
Andy Cross: Then I think the last time I remember seeing it, it was in the seven or 800. I think again, just thinking about this year, you're right. I just didn't put that all together, so well done, Emily.
David Gardner: Andy, one thing I really appreciate about Emily's performance in this game, and she does it every time she comes on the shows, she really does articulate what's going on in her mind as she lays out her eventual guess. Emily is good at sometimes head-faking and playing psych games with other people, too. I don't know if that's been happening, but right now, Emily is on her horse. You were up 4-nothing. You had to have been feeling very confident, maybe amazing. Now it's 4 to 2.
Andy Cross: That last Tesla one unnerved me a little bit.
David Gardner: [laughs].
Andy Cross: I'm feeling it because A, it's up one of the largest companies that we follow, its a great performance, recommended in multiple services. That one I feel like I should've known. I'm now reflecting and thinking about her language, body posture, and so [laughs] now I'm like all tied in knots and then loops. I got to get my game face back here.
David Gardner: I just like that you used the word unnerved, which is definitely not used enough. Thank you for bringing [laughs] that this week to this podcast. By the way, what a huge winner has been for Tom and Stock Advisor and across many different services. There are all kinds of different opinions about who Elon Musk is, what he is, what he's not. I'm sure he has some grandiose notions of who he is or not as well, but I agree he's probably the best-known CEO in the world. Now we all know the present market cap of Tesla, which if you're an investor, I think that's a good thing to know. Now for something completely different, Andy, earlier you shared something personal. You told us how you get your taxes done. Are you ready to share again?
Andy Cross: Always, David.
David Gardner: Thank you. Would you just share a bit about your sleep habits? Do you have any?
Andy Cross: They're not great. So maybe I'll start there.
David Gardner: I'm sorry to hear that.
Andy Cross: Just like you've young kids and a dog, and the dog gets up and moves around in the room and has a lot of loyalty to my wife and Jaimie. They just like right by the bed there and sometimes just a little bit of times there's just not the, not the best sleep, so that's what I'm wrestling with right now.
David Gardner: I hope you win that wrestling match.
Andy Cross: Thank you.
David Gardner: Are you more of a night owl or more of a morning bird?
Andy Cross: No, much more morning bird.
David Gardner: What about your mattress?
Emily Flippen: [laughs] I think we have you.
David Gardner: Is this TMI?
Emily Flippen: No.
David Gardner: Are we oversharing at this point?
Andy Cross: We have the heavenly mattresses which I think we were in some hotel room that my wife like very much and found out and she bought these mattresses. No, I think my mattress is not my problem now. I am the only morning bird in the family among a whole bunch of night owls, so that's even the young age of kids, they keep me up.
David Gardner: I travel a fair amount, not a crazy amount, but often when I stay in a nice hotel, I'm like, these mattresses, these pillows, I should have this at home. I do agree, maybe a little bit more of the upscale hotel inspires us sometimes with the quality of the sleep you can get there, even though you're not in your regular haunt. You don't really have much technology in your mattress at home?
Andy Cross: No. I do not.
David Gardner: Sleep Number, ticker symbol S-N-B-R. I'll just come out with it right now. A horrendously bad stock pick of mine. The month was February, the year was 2021. I'm not going to say how much it's down because I don't want to make the job easier for Andy and Emily, and you at home right now. We'll talk about that in a sec. But Andy, as you might guess and maybe you will guess, I'm not sure, what is your stated market cap range for the company Sleep Number, ticker symbol S-N-B-R, which by the way, like 3M, is based in Minnesota, and like 3M has been an underperformer? But I love Minnesota.
Andy Cross: Boy, I haven't thought about Sleep Number in a long time. I will say between $400 million and $600 million.
David Gardner: Four hundred million to 600 million, Emily Flippen, players at home, do you want to agree or disagree, $400 million to $600 million?
Emily Flippen: Again, the safe thing for me is to just agree with Andy, but I've never been a safe player and I know Sleep Number is down massively. My instinct, I was thinking somewhere around a $300 million mark, I'm going lower.
David Gardner: Score another for Flippen, it's 4-3. That was a good guess though, Andy. You both are so good at this game, even when you missed, you're just not missing by much at all. Andy you didn't miss by much at all on this one, but Sleep Number rocking the scales here at $352.106 million, as we record this show, $352 million. Now back to how bad a stock pick this was by me. Three years ago and now it's down almost 90%. Now I admit I'm not keeping tabs on Sleep Number, our team is. Emily, I know you're connected into the Motley Fool Rule Breakers service, it's a little bit of that team. I know the company name comes up from time to time.
Emily Flippen: Yes, I am embarrassed to say I'm not positive when I say this, but I'm pretty sure I'm a Sleep Number shareholder. The business, if memory serves correctly, got a bit of a pandemic bump. People were investing time and energy into their mattresses and as such, it was on our team's radars. Unfortunately that proprietary nature of what they do and then the quality of their mattresses, while still I'm sure, great quality, just didn't hold up I think in the face of stiffer competition, tighter budgets. It has been an underperformer. Don't they have like commercials with sports stars?
David Gardner: This company punches above its weight class when it comes to its brand and the marketing, that it does, certainly. It's sad to think that COVID bump, which it surely did get and it's come all the way back down from that. Like a lot of the other so-called COVID stocks. But it's sad to reflect on that because this company has been around for decades. This was Select Comfort that you'll remember from Hidden Gems days, perhaps Andy, back in the day and everybody kept talking about the sleep number of the beds, so the company just renamed itself Sleep Number.
But things are not going great in Minneapolis, Minnesota, right now for this company. I will mention that the stock was up about 40% in a single day two weeks ago. The company announced it had restructured its costs so that off the same revenue base as last year. This is not a growing company at present. Roughly the same revenue base the company announced it will be generating positive instead of negative free cash flow this year, so the market loved that for one day, at least.
Andy Cross: I just need it to be up about 60% or maybe 70% then I would've been inside my $400 [million]-$600 million.
David Gardner: Your $352 million is a micro-cap stock at this. These two interest me, not because I like penny stocks, I don't, but especially when a company has a well-known brand. In my mind, that's the numerator, and the denominator is the market cap. When I see a higher ratio like a company we all know that has a very low market cap, that at least interests me. Anyway, good luck to the State of Minnesota, to a couple of underperforming Minnesotans. I like both companies, I wish you well. We're turning back to Emily now. She has gotten three points in a row. You are on fire.
Emily Flippen: Let's keep it going.
David Gardner: Let's do that. Emily, for stock No. 8, I thought I'd ask ChatGPT to explain what it does as if I were a 10-year-old. Emily, here we go. Imagine you want to build a really cool sandcastle, but instead of going to the beach, you can do it right from your computer. This company creates a huge online beach where people can create and build their own websites, apps, or any computer project they dream up. Just like you need a space on the beach for your sandcastle, people need space on the internet for their projects. This company gives them that space, but there's more. You know how some sandcastles have special parts, like a moat or a tower? This company also gives people tools to make their websites or apps better, like making them faster or more secure so no one can knock them over. It's like having all the best buckets and shovels to make your sandcastle awesome. In short, this company helps people put their cool ideas on the internet by giving them a place and the tools they need to build them, like we were 10 years old. That helped me understand the business of DigitalOcean, ticker symbol D-O-C-N. Now there are other SaaS companies, software-as-a-service companies, that you probably could use a similar description. Thank you, ChatGPT, for speaking to me like I'm 10 years old, which actually in a lot of ways I still am. This is probably not the only awesome "sandcastle on the internet" company that exists, but this is the one we're talking about. DigitalOcean's ticker symbol is D-O-C-N. It's been picked by a bunch of Motley Fool services.
I am quite sure one of you knows more than I do about DigitalOcean, which by the way is a camel case name now. Not everybody knows what camel case is, let's break that down really quickly while Emily thinks about her market cap. We all know uppercase and we all know lowercase, but camel case, think of iPod, think of DigitalOcean, when they smoosh together two words, but leave that second word capitalized, creating like a hump in the middle of that word and that is called camel case, and DigitalOcean is one such example. Again, ticker symbol D-O-C-N. Emily, what is your stated market cap range for DigitalOcean?
Emily Flippen: I'm going to go $1.1 billion-$3.8 billion.
David Gardner: One point one billion to 3.8 billion. I think part of the reason ChatGPT went with the sandcastles was for the beach theme, which connects with the ocean. I think ChatGPT didn't call that out, but I think that's that was the AI, that was the intelligence that was laced into what I got to share with the world as we described DigitalOcean for a 10-year-old.
Emily Flippen: The robots are getting smarter.
David Gardner: Speaking of getting smarter, Andy, make us smarter. Do you want to agree with Emily's range of $1.1 billion-$3.8 billion and listeners at home, or do you want to disagree?
Andy Cross: David, that's a pretty high bar when you're asking me to make us smarter around almost anything. I'm going to agree with Emily, at first I wasn't, but I think she's right. I think DigitalOcean is within that range.
David Gardner: Andy, in some ways, Emily deserves credit. Like she's smiling right now, like she made a good call. Is it wrong at this game show gives Andy the point instead? But that's how we've always played it. This is the 27th Market Cap Game Show played over the months and years. What a delight it's been so far to share this with you both and Andy, you have just taken a 5 to 3 lead because the market cap for DigitalOcean is $3.37 billion. Emily pretty much had it nailed.
Emily Flippen: I was actually very hesitant because I know that business has been on a pretty strong downward trajectory and so I was tempted to go higher, but I wanted to have that downside a little bit wider because I wasn't overly confident. That's a type of business that could have easily been off 40% in the last month because that's how volatile it's been historically.
Andy Cross: That was a fairly wide range at that level, from 1-3, and that's what threw me off a little bit.
Emily Flippen: Apologies.
Andy Cross: No, but then I was like, I think it's in the three range.
David Gardner: I think you only hurt yourself with that, Emily, you don't have to apologize to Andy. You helped Andy by giving a wide range.
Andy Cross: Thank you, Emily.
David Gardner: You could just say, I'll agree, [laughs] and get a point apparently, which he did. Five, Andy. Three, Emily. This stock hit a low of $20 in November. It had been more than cut in half since August. Just over those three months because the founding CEO stepped down and there was an announcement, we need to find a new CEO. Generally not great news for shareholders. But since then, DigitalOcean has bounced back from $20 to $37 a share, which is where the stock is today. Having now nearly doubled over the past quarter, up to a market cap again of $3.37 billion. Well, good luck, sandcastle building. By the way, side note before we go to company No. 9. Has either of you ever been part of a team that built an amazing sandcastle on a beach anywhere at any time?
Emily Flippen: No, Texas problems. Very rarely on beaches.
Andy Cross: No. Creativity problems with me.
David Gardner: I can't claim either excuse. I'm not awesome either. But I sometimes walk past teams that are actively building this amazing thing or the lonely more urban sandcastle that's still standing. Sometimes a beautiful sandcastle. It's just a gift to the other people on the beach.
Andy Cross: It's like beautiful snow sculptures, snow people, snow families out there. I can't do any of that. I admire those who can. Those of you who are out there who are super creative, thank you very much.
David Gardner: We befriend those people.
Andy Cross: Yes. I do.
David Gardner: That's the closest we can get to that art. Andy, let me try to marketing tag line on you as we start stock No. 9. Emily is going to need both of these points to tie the game. There is a tiebreaker because this is our final four. This is the semifinals for the national championship so yeah, there will be a tiebreaker if we need one. But first, Andy, let me try out a marketing tag line on you. You ready?
Andy Cross: Sure.
David Gardner: Good. You're going to rate this 0-10, where 10 is perfect and zero is the worst marketing tag line you've ever heard. Here we go. No offense, but we do operations better than you do.
Andy Cross: This actually sounds like it could be a real one.
David Gardner: This is real. This is stock No. 9. This is right off the website.
Andy Cross: I don't know the company that has this as a motto but I actually like it and so I'll give that a seven.
David Gardner: A seven. Emily, higher or lower, this is not going to be scored in the game. This is your bonus point.
Emily Flippen: I have to go higher. I think it's cheeky. I like it.
David Gardner: I like the word cheeky, which joins unnerved for some beautiful diction that we're rocking this week on Rule Breaker Investing. We bring out our best for national championships. As March Market cap Madness continues, I'll let you know first that this company goes on from that cheeky tag line to say on their website: "We're not fund managers or custodians. We're not a bank. We don't compete with our customers. Investment operations is all we do. We do all of it. Technology, servicing, expertise for every investment business, portfolio, strategy, asset class, and tax regime." SS&C Technologies Holdings, speaking of holding a 10-year holding for Motley Fool Rule Breakers. Now this is not a company that has a lot of buzz.
In fact, I'm looking at you both and I think you're looking at scans going, what company is this and who are they and why don't I know this company because we're an investment company? You'd think maybe we should be using SS&C Technologies Holdings services. I don't think that we are, but I agree. I like the tag line. I like the cheeky, and I thought it's really well-written what's below that, we're not fund managers or custodians. We're not a bank. We don't compete with our customers. By the way, as Andy prepares his market cap guess for SS&C Technologies Holdings, that's a mouthful. Ticker symbol, SSNC. I will mention that they've basically turned the ampersand in their company name into their logo. Check it. That's also cheeky. Andy, speaking of cheeky, what is your market cap game show guess for the market cap range for SS&C Technologies Holdings?
Andy Cross: I know only by the ticker, but having never really studied it so I will say Emily, between $27 billion and $38 billion.
David Gardner: I love that you said, you know it only by the ticker. Are you one of those guys who walks around just with tickers in your head Andy, and you're talking tickers?
Andy Cross: Well, just because so many of our scorecards just we have the tickers there.
David Gardner: You're absolutely right.
Andy Cross: Just going through our services and our sites, you just see some tickers. I think this actually is a Rule Breaker recommendation that had a previous name that changed its name to SS&C. I could be wrong. Or through an acquisition.
David Gardner: Maybe they added holdings but I picked it on Nov. 25, 2014, I think it had that name. But I could be wrong. I do not have a high-level memory around rather obscure companies that I picked 10 years ago. Emily, Andy said $27 billion to $38 billion, the market cap for SS&C, just rocking the ticker symbol. Do you want to agree or disagree?
Emily Flippen: I'm saying a little prayer that I'm right here because I want to keep this game competitive and I need to get this point to do so. This is a coin flip to me. I'm somewhat unnerved by what I perceive to be a fairly narrow range for a company that Andy claims to have very little knowledge about.
David Gardner: He said he just does the ticker symbol and then he threw out a market cap range. [laughs].
Emily Flippen: Thinking logically about many of options for market cap, I have to go outside of Andy's very narrow range.
David Gardner: Emily gets her fourth point and makes it dramatic as we move to stock No. 10 because SS&C is a smaller company than we were thinking. Its market cap is $15.42 billion. Not off that much, but almost twice what this company is. I've often pointed out on this show and I'll do it here once again, queue Dave's brief rant about when you thought the market cap was much higher, maybe add that one to your watch list because anytime any of us is looking at a company and going, I think it's probably 100 billion and you find that's only 50 billion, that probably implies to you that they should be bigger and maybe they're on the way to getting bigger. Hasn't necessarily worked for Sleep Number [laughs], but maybe it will for SS&C Technologies Holdings.
More important for this show, it is now Andy, 5; Emily, 4 as we all hone in, we zoom in together on stock No. 10. By the way, before we go there, I want to mention SS&C is up 150% over last 10 years. The S&P 500 is up exactly that much over the last 10 years so this stock, it's a dead heat. It's just tracking the market now. It used to be higher. It's given way. It's consistently been beating the market over the last 10 years, except for now where it's right about market performer. Onto stock No. 10. Emily, we've talked about this a little bit earlier. We're going to do it a little bit more now. I feel like I'm the only one who hasn't watched Survivor. Not just your season, but any season. I've still never watched the show. Andy, what about you?
I told Emily this and I said I was sorry, but I haven't watched it since the very early days. Like I said, have watch parties here in the office. I just don't watch much network TV, but a lot of people do. These days, people come up to Emily and asked for her autograph. That's like our own employees like when we have an all-employee, all-hands gathering. Emily's giving out autographs and the power of not just a well-known show, but a well-played game by Emily Flippen on a well-known show. I do know some of the gamesmanship involved.
I know that's part of it, Emily, I know you're a great gamer. Even though I've literally never watched a single episode of Survivor, and I really should because I'd love to see out there and I already know what happens. Maybe that's why I didn't watch, you told me early on but I couldn't tell anybody else because that's how it is and I never did. But people are sometimes are eavesdropping on conversations or there's deception and misdirection and secret conversations. Company No. 10, Emily, was once called by Bloomberg, ''The world's most profitable spy organization.'' Does that sound interesting to you by the way?
Emily Flippen: It does, and I know exactly what company you're talking about.
David Gardner: That's impressive. They're not far from Fool HQ here in Alexandria, Virginia. This company's headquarters are within 10 miles of us. You have a sense of which company we're talking about.
Emily Flippen: I do, and I am concerned because while I may know the company, despite its secrecy, I have never actually looked at it from an investor's perspective. I've never been interested enough to dig deeper into the company and part because its business has turned me off a little bit and as a result, I am extremely ill-equipped.
David Gardner: l know important stock that we're picking where you have to get it right. Actually, we need Andy to get it wrong. I think Sam will know which company we're talking about, but we're being a little secretive because it's thematic with this company. The reason that Bloomberg said that about 20 years ago about this company is because there are lots of former intelligence officers on its staff as it provides consulting to the public and private sector. This is a larger, well-known consulting company based in McLean, Virginia. It's Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp. Booz Allen now. As soon as I said that, Andy, your eyebrows went up, why would that be?
Andy Cross: Because I think that is not the company that either Emily or I, were thinking.
David Gardner: Some of our talented listeners, we were thinking of the right one, but what were you guys thinking?
Emily Flippen: Palantir was on my mind.
Andy Cross: Yes, because I was thinking of Palantir, and then I thought, wait, Palantir is headquartered here, I didn't know.
Emily Flippen: I had the same reaction.
David Gardner: I'm pretty sure Palantir is headquartered in the Washington, D.C., area. But we're talking about a much older company, one that's been around a long time. Many people just call it Booz Allen. There used to be a Fry in there somewhere and Hamilton rarely gets referred to, even though Hamilton was a co-founder as well. Hamilton has been around since 1914. We're talking about a company that is like N.T. Butterfield and Son Limited, has been around for more than a century at this point. Now, discerning listeners are already anticipating this. You both may have forgotten or not. There are two of these per show, friends, and we've only had one. By a process of elimination, you know that stock No. 10 is a throwdown.
The stock is Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp. Emily and Andy both have their pencils scratching away at the yellow index cards that Andy brought in, kindly thinking and remembering for us that we need to have those to do this show well. They're scratching out some numbers thinking about Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp. Players have two reminders. The first is, Emily needs this one. That would create a tiebreaker moment for our final four. Could things be much more exciting for this Market Cap Game Show? Reminder No. 1, Emily needs us desperately. Reminder No. 2, all you need to do is simply agree with the person who had the better, tighter, accurate range for their market cap. That's how throwdown works. Emily, your pencil is down, yours is, too, as well Andy. I'm going to turn to you first, Emily, what is the best you can imagine for the tightest, most accurate market cap range for Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp.? By the way, ticker symbol BAH, as in bah.
Emily Flippen: Bah is very much how I'm feeling right now because I think I was more confident in Palantir than I was Booz Allen Hamilton. I'm afraid that my range is too small. I know the market cap of Accenture is inching up near $200 billion, but I don't think Booz Allen is quite as large. In fact, I think it's significantly smaller, so my market cap is $48 [billion]-$69 billion.
David Gardner: $48 billion to $69 billion. Andy Cross, what do you got for us for bah?
Andy Cross: Wow, I am so much smaller. I am at $13 [billion]-$18 billion in market cap.
David Gardner: The market cap for Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp, the world's most profitable spy organization, is $19.28 billion. Andy Cross, you win that one going away. You said $13 [billion]-$18 billion, very close. You're our chief investment officer after all, I'm glad that you were within a billion dollars with your range of the actual market cap for this long-standing company, one that I hear about maybe because I'm in the D.C. area, so it pops up. I mean, they have offices around the world. This is a significant consulting company, but not quite as significant as Emily thought and not anywhere close to Accenture as you said Emily.
Emily Flippen: I think the reference point there is maybe throwing me off and if I was wrong, I was convinced I was too small. Maybe to take some of your advice, I need to take a second look at Booz Allen and figure out, is it going the way of Accenture?
Andy Cross: So much, I think it's one of those businesses that most of its business is tied to the U.S. government. It's one of those consistent, the checks, as long as the government continues to pay itself, which obviously I guess is some question these days, but Booz Allen has a long runway of business ahead of it.
David Gardner: We have our first finalist, Andy Cross, by a score of 6-4. You have gotten it done today for the Market Cap Game Show. Are you feeling a little bit matter than when you first walked in the offices today?
Andy Cross: I do have to say that the Tesla one is still sticking, is still itching me a little bit because that's one that I should have gotten and I was very happy to pull that out at the end because Emily certainly made it very challenging.
David Gardner: Emily, any closing thoughts from you?
Emily Flippen: I always like to think to myself if I'm going to lose, I would like to lose respectably. I would like to make it competitive. The way that the show started off, I was very afraid, this was about to be the most uninteresting Market Cap Game Show that you've taped in a long time, David, but I'm happy that not only that I lost to somebody who has obviously so talented, our chief investment officer here, but also that I did so in a somewhat competitive manner.
David Gardner: Absolutely, in fact, you won four of the last six, Emily. You had all the momentum except that lat -- just right there at the finish line. Andy, congratulations. The final accounting again, Andy, 6; Emily, 4. But Andy and Emily, and I know that we're not playing this game for each other, we're planning for you. How did you score? Dear Fools, dear listener at home, we hope you outscored all of us. The purpose of the Market Cap Game Show is to make more popular -- now I'm never going to say as popular as Jeopardy! or Survivor, but to make more popular market caps, the real value of stocks on the market that most people don't understand except that you do understand because you just listened to us for an hour. I hope you scored at least a few points this week and maybe beat one or both of our competitors. Andy and Emily, you both distinguished yourselves and helped make the world a bit smarter, happier, and richer this week. Andy, a parting line from you.
Andy Cross: It is obviously so much fun and the beauty of all of this is, as we mentioned earlier, there's so many different ways to look at different companies, and this is one metric in market cap. But it is a good litmus test and you think about, just understanding some businesses and having some, as Emily said earlier, that context is so important because businesses A-Z, all different kinds of market cap. Then you have just different thoughts about how it works into your portfolio. It's always fun to do this. I do have to say, I'm almost more nervous when I come in to do this show here than almost anything. I think idea of the year is just, it does bring a little bit of [laughs] I said I was unnerved and it still feels a little bit unnerve to come in near and compete against Emily.
David Gardner: You are both very brave, to be clear, and you're both very good. [laughs]. Emily, any parting thought from you?
Emily Flippen: I am very much looking forward to the next Market Cap Game Show, and a couple of weeks, I believe, is when Andy will be competing. I now have to root for you Andy, because as the person who beat me, you are now my champion moving forward.
David Gardner: Thank you for that. Indeed, we will have a Market Cap Game Show next week because the other half of the final four puts Bill Mann against the OG of the Market Cap Game Show, Matt Argersinger. Bill and Matt will be in front of the microphones for all of us next week. I hope you'll join us too, dear listener, remember you're scoring right along with us and I'd love to hear your total after we do three straight Market Cap Game Shows this month, including as Emily mentioned, two weeks from today, the finals for the national championship. For Andy Cross and Emily Flippen, I'm David Gardner, thanks for joining us this week. Fool on.
Deidre Woollard: As always, people on this program may have interest in the stocks they talk about. The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. Learn more about Rule Breaker Investing at rbi.fool.com.
