In one corner is Bill Mann and in the other is Andy Cross, both Motley Fool investing gurus.
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This video was recorded on March 20, 2024.
David Gardner: World championships are common in sports. The World Cup, the Super Bowl, the World Chess Championships. Yes, chess is a sport just asked the International Olympic Committee. Is the Market Cap Game Show a sport? Maybe. But in order to be recognized as such, my thinking goes that we need to have a world championship on an annual basis, and if you've been around the past couple of weeks, you know it's all come down to this. This week we will name our first ever Market Cap Game Show. Did I say game? I think I mean sport world champion. We have our own March Madness on this podcast and past champions, Andy Cross and Bill Mann have survived to advance to the granddaddy of them all, our first ever world championship, which happens now only on Rule Breaker Investing.
Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing. In week 1 of this month as we kicked off our final four, Andy Cross, survived an epic showdown ending with Emily Flippen in our first semifinal, winning six points to four. In week 2, last week, we featured Bill Mann grabbing the early lead and never looking back to feeding the OG of the Market Cap Game Show past champion Matthew Argersinger, 7-3. Therefore sound the trumpets, Rick Engdahl Andy Cross and Bill Mann face off for our first ever Market Cap Game Show world championships. Gentle Fools. Welcome.
Andy Cross: Hi, David.
Bill Mann: Hey, David.
David Gardner: Guys, you need to bring a little bit more for our world Chairmanship. Welcome.
Bill Mann: David, Bill Mann is very excited here for the intergalactic championships at the Market Cap Game and he really does respect his opponent Andy Cross but Bill Mann feels really, really good about his prep. It's all about the process, David, that's what I'm feeling is going to carry me through today.
David Gardner: All about going into the third person, which is very athletes citric of you. Well done Bill, Andy, great to have you here as well. I'm going to turn to you first, Andy. Is this your first ever appearance in a world championship of any kind?
Andy Cross: This is the first appearance in a world champion. I have competed directly against a world champion and that was quite the event. I came up on the short end, but I did compete against one, Jim Furyk in Lancaster, Pennsylvania playing golf. Jimmy, if you're listening out there and love you and great career on the PGA.
David Gardner: That is fantastic. Jim Furyk, he wore a green jacket, I'm pretty sure.
Andy Cross: No, he won the US Open and I played one of my best rounds of golf and I shot 76 and Jim beat me by nine shots. He shot 67 and just destroyed me.
David Gardner: That is great and that's pretty close to a world championship in our own way. I mean, most of us would never get anywhere near that.
Andy Cross: Not completely, other than seeing the US women win the World Cup in soccer when they hosted it here and the Rose Bowl, that's the closest I ever got to a world championship.
David Gardner: Bill Mann, is this your first ever appearance in a world championship of any kind?
Bill Mann: Well, it depends on how you feel about the Ravenscroft school Spelling Bee from third grade. Whether it was the world champion, Ravenscroft Spelling Bee championship, because in third grade I did in fact win the world championship of Ravenscroft school spelling bees. In fourth grade, in the opening round, I misspelled the word go out of excitement, so that was an early exit, but in third grade.
David Gardner: How did you spell it? G-E-A-U-X-X
Bill Mann: I did it Louisiana style. No. I said, G-O-O, go. When you say the word again, you're finished. Just excited, not as excited as this though.
David Gardner: Let's get it on. Andy and Bill, it's natural to look across Fool studios right now and see the other, guy, the other Fool here, and think that's your competitor, but he's not the only one. Who else is your competitor?
Andy Cross: The listener?
David Gardner: Exactly, our listeners at home. Thank you, Andy. 13 is the combined score that won, the first two weeks of March, Market Cap Madness. We had a sixth spot, Andy you threw that up on the scoreboard. We had a seventh spot last week from you Bill. Our players at home, and they far outnumber us. If you're at 13 or higher, you are right there with us competing for our world Chairmanship. In fact, I'd say 10, 11, or 12, you got a shot.
Bill Mann: You're in the game.
David Gardner: Thank you for prompting that, Andy, let me turn to you, Bill, could you briefly define market cap? What is it? Why do we care about it?
Bill Mann: The market cap is the size of a company. Basically, the share price times the number of shares outstanding. We hear all the time people say a stock is expensive because of the share price, but that share count is just as important.
David Gardner: Very well said. That is the story of market cap. Anybody who's been with us through March already knows that, but we never know who will tune in for a world championship so I wanted to make sure we defined our terms right there. As we crank up our special Market Cap Game Show, world Championship music, let me just briefly remind new listeners, new players how this works. I'll be mentioning the stock, neither Andy nor Bill knows what stock is coming.
I'll turn to one of them to talk about whatever stock they don't know what's coming, and that Fool will do his best to state a numerical range within which the market cap falls. The other contested, and all of you, you playing at home, will simply say I agree, meaning that was accurate, the stock's value falls inside that range or I disagree.
I think it's outside that stated range, so you simply agree or disagree and if you get it right, give yourself a plus one. That's the Market Cap Game Show. We're focused on the real market caps of real stocks. Nobody knows what's coming, a perfect score would be 10 which could be unforgettably amazing achieved by anyone here or elsewhere playing along in our first ever world championship.
David Gardner: Bill Mann is the host of the Motley Fool morning show on Motley Fool Live. He is a lead advisor for Global Partners, Motley Fool Firecrackers, and Bill is the Director of Small Cap research at our company. Bill, welcome.
Bill Mann: Thank you, David.
David Gardner: Bill, some companies have been around a long time. Any come to mind for you when you think of America's oldest, longest-standing companies still traded actively on exchanges today?
Bill Mann: I believe American Express is among the oldest.
David Gardner: That is true.
Bill Mann: Yeah.
David Gardner: In fact, surveying a list of some of these, many of them are financial or actually just flat-out banks, so J. P. Morgan, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, I do see that Pfizer; I didn't know this was founded in 1849 as Charles Pfizer & Company, which I had no idea. Procter & Gamble, sure. Wow, Colgate-Palmolive is fairly well into its third century of operations, having been founded in 1806. One of them though Bill, is a railroad founded on July 1 of 1862, the Union Pacific Railroad, back then, by the way, rail and road were two different words. Today, Union Pacific continues to be traded on our exchanges where its ticker symbol is UNP.
Bill Mann: I wonder if railroad or baseball, were contracted into one word first.
David Gardner: Yeah, and that's what linguistics shows us, is that often we start with words separate and then we start to smash them together as we use them frequently. That is true of language. Oh my gosh, stock Number 1 is a throwdown round. To remind our players at home, both Bill and Andy will now write down their market cap range for Union Pacific. Pencils out Fools.
Again, all you have to do as a player at home is once Bill and Andy state their market caps, decide which you want to go with. Is Bill's range, your ticket to ride, or would you rather hang out with Andy on his freight train to glory. So all you do at the appointed time, you say Bill or Andy, and if you guess right, give yourself a point. By the way, there's a chance they'll both be right, especially if they use wide ranges. If they're both right, the tighter range wins the point.
If they're both wrong, that would never happen except I think it did happen at least once in both of our semifinal matches. I can't imagine it ever happening again, but if it did, whoever's range parameter is closer to the actual market cap gets plus one. Again, this is a throwdown. We do this twice every show. Thanks as always to Sam Stephens for his invention. This is a throwdown stock Number 1 Union Pacific. Bill, I'm going to turn to you first. What is your market cap range? You want to be as tight and as accurate as possible here for the ticker symbol UNP.
Bill Mann: David, Bill Mann is completely thrown by the fact that we're going to a throwdown round, Round 1. Bill Mann was not prepared for this at all.
David Gardner: Is Bill Mann going to go third person this whole show because that's going to kill our ratings?
Bill Mann: Bill Mann is going to drop it at one point. Maybe, let's just say I'm going to drop it right now. I believe that Union Pacific is valued somewhere between $104-121 billion.
David Gardner: $104-121 billion. Thank you, Bill. Turning now to Andy. Andy, what do you got, UNP?
Andy Cross: David, I think Andy and Emily competed in the semifinal and our first was a throwdown, I believe.
David Gardner: That is right. Bill wasn't listening that week.
Andy Cross: That's OK.
David Gardner: You're used to this.
Andy Cross: Nothing less than Bill.
Bill Mann: What you're saying is that you have an advantage at this point.
Andy Cross: Bill, I would never say I have an advantage against you on almost any.
David Gardner: Smart.
Andy Cross: Except for maybe the golf course. However, we do have the range covered here. I'm going a little bit smaller and I'm seeing $80-110 billion market cap for United Pacific Railroad.
David Gardner: All right. You've heard it. You heard Bill's 104-121, you heard Andy's 80-110. Players at home, it's now up to you. Is it Bill or is it Andy? 3-2-1, say it. Well, I said this wasn't going to happen, but it did just happen again. Both of my players missed with their range the actual market cap of this company which, by the way, is $147.81 billion. Bill, you had a slightly higher range, you went up to 121, therefore, Bill and players at home, if you said Bill, give yourself a point, Bill 1, Andy, nothing. Union Pacific, I first picked that stock for Motley Fool Stock Advisor on September 20th, 2018. Guys, it's up 68%, which is not bad. Though, it's 24 percentage points behind the market. It does though, pay a 2.2% dividend yield.
Bill Mann: It's up against some pretty good competition over that period of time. If you were to tell me that a railroad was anywhere close to the performance of the S&P 500 in a period of time in which the Magnificent 7 has done as well as they have, I would've been surprised.
Andy Cross: Union Pacific is not the only one up against some stiff competition. I got here Bill to my right. I got to get my act on.
Bill Mann: I don't feel good about that round though. I'm going to take the point.
Andy Cross: Yeah, it's like take the point.
David Gardner: Andy Cross works on Stock Advisor Backstage and with Tom on his everlasting services like Hidden Gems. He's also the Chief Investment Officer at our company helping our Fool investor teams produce the best guidance and experience for our members. Andy, welcome.
Andy Cross: It's great to be here, David. Thank you.
David Gardner: Think back to your schooling for a second, if you would, Andy. What was a great year for you at school?
Andy Cross: My freshman year in University, Michigan, it was great.
David Gardner: What made it great?
Andy Cross: New experiences. I did well in school and I was in Ann Arbor, which is a gorgeous town.
David Gardner: Fantastic college town. I've been once before, very memorable. During the fall, I don't know how long fall lasts, probably a good long while. It's crisp, a turmoil, it was gorgeous. Anyway, when I went to Ann Arbor in the late '80s.
Andy Cross: Yes, it is beautiful in the fall.
Bill Mann: Which starts in August.
Andy Cross: And ends in August.
David Gardner: Andy, I want you to think about University of Michigan, your alma mater, but you might also think of elementary school or high school. I want you to think of the other people that you went to school with and maybe some of those who've led lives of consequence, local kids who made good. Maybe they were the ones voted to be most successful from their high school class, or maybe they were not so voted, and yet maybe they outshined those who were. Did you have any amazing classmates in elementary school or high school or people you knew at college worth calling out right now?
Andy Cross: I do. I graduated tied for third in my high school class and I'm still good friends with the person I tied with, the Number 2 and the Number 1, Tom, Heidi, and Bill. I connected with all of them just recently and they're all doing well and very successful.
David Gardner: That's really great to keep up with friends over that long association that's special. Any famous people from nursery school or maybe even your years in Ann Arbor. Names that would jump out that we'd recognize. You're like Andy Cross went to school with them?
Andy Cross: No, I don't think so, not necessarily. Jim I did not go to school with him, I did compete against him.
David Gardner: Well, thank you, Andy. My brother Tom and I can similarly think back on people we were in school with at 10 years of age and today some of them are incredibly accomplished and it makes us smile. Stock Number 2 is a public company today whose CEO was in the one year between us in elementary school. Meaning I was in sixth grade, Tom was in fourth grade, and this kid at the time was in fifth grade. Do you know which one I'm talking about?
Andy Cross: Is this a local company, David?
David Gardner: It is. Local to the Washington DC area.
Andy Cross: Local to the Washington DC area. Is the company very old and in it's third-generation of leadership?
David Gardner: Founded in 1937. I think you may know stock Number 2.
Andy Cross: Walker & Dunlop.
David Gardner: That's correct. Walker & Dunlop ticker symbol WD. Oh my gosh, I can't even believe this. I randomized it and it's true. Rick, play the sound. Oh my gosh. It's true, I randomized and the stock Walker & Dunlop stock Number 2. Andy and Bill both still have their pencils out poised over their index cards as they ponder their best, tightest, most accurate range for ticker symbol WD.
A company known to not many people worldwide, but to these two, I suspect, and many Motley Fool members, especially fans of my brother Tom's, this company will be well-known. I'm fascinated to see what Andy and Bill come up with. A reminder to you, all you need to do is simply agree with the player who had a better, tighter, accurate range by saying his name, and you too will get that plus one. That's how throwdown works. Stock Number 2 will be the second and last one for our world championships. Okay, time.
David Gardner: Andy, I'm going to turn to you first.
Andy Cross: David. I said 2.93 billion to 3.1 billion.
David Gardner: 2.93 billion to 3.10 billion. Excellent. That's Andy's range. Bill, what is your range for Walker & Dunlop?
Bill Mann: Mine is 4.5 billion to 7.6 billion.
David Gardner: Four point 4.5-7.6 billion. Players at home. Is it Andy? Is it Bill? Say it. It was Andy. Andy nailed it because the market cap of Walker and Dunlop as we speak. It's Tuesday afternoon, March 19. I updated it just before the show here this afternoon, $3.01 billion inside Andy's range, very tight, 2.93- 3.1. How can you do that?
Andy Cross: Because I had been studying it.
David Gardner: Somebody studied.
Andy Cross: That one I had been studying for some of our services. That is one of the ones that I did know pretty confidently.
David Gardner: Fantastic. That makes it Andy, one Bill, one. Tom Gardner first picked this for his everlasting portfolio. The date was June 30th of 2013. The market has tripled since then, the S&P 500, but Walker and Dunlop has quintupled. Speaking of dividends, this company also pays a dividend 2.9% as the yield. I'm sure Andy already knew that because he's been looking at it. Willy Walker in 2007, became Chairman and CEO of this Bethesda, Maryland company that his grandfather founded. As you referenced Andy in 1937. Andy, would you just briefly describe this real estate business? What do you like about the stock?
Andy Cross: Well, it's a small company in a very large market providing real estate services and its based on intellectual property. But it's also based on relationships and helping to do business in a better way than some of the other historical competitors. The fact that Willy Walker is still involved, his name is on the door. He still owns a good amount of stock, his family is still tied into it. It's just something we've always really respected and just the way he wants to grow the company, I think, is just one thing we've always appreciated.
David Gardner: Well, I appreciate both of you because you both got a point during a throwdown round. Thanks for playing the game with me guys. I see some high-five knuckle knock going on across the table from me, you can put away the yellow index cards. We won't need those anymore. Backed-up pure Market Cap Game Show is stock number 3. Bill Mann, stock number 1, you may remember it. It started with the letter U and it was in the transportation industry.
Stock number 3 also starts with a letter U and is also in the transportation industry now. It's not United Parcel Service, UPS. Bill by the way, guess the market cap of UPS. This won't count but let's have fun. Within 20%, which is how this game originally started, we used to say, here's the company, Matt Argersinger, Bill Mann, what's the market cap of UPS within 20%?
Bill Mann: Oh my gosh, $104 billion.
David Gardner: Oh my gosh, you got it. The man was that close because the answer is $129.34 billion. If you lop off 20%, you get down to 103.4. Give yourself a point that doesn't count Bill and that's not stock number 3, but United Parcel Service is a big, U company in the transportation industry. Now there's another one.
Bill Mann: There's two other ones.
David Gardner: You're right and one of them we're going to hold off on because that's the stock. But you're already thinking maybe of United Airlines ticker symbol, U-A-L. Andy, why not? Guess the market cap within 20%, this doesn't count for United Airlines.
Andy Cross: I will say 65 billion.
David Gardner: Andy, don't give yourself a point but it didn't matter anyway, you're not even close. I probably would've gone there. It's only $14.29 billion. Check Southwest Air itself, the big dog for many, these are much smaller companies than we think today. It makes me sometimes a little bit worried as I sit down in my seat and fasten my seatbelt and make sure that I have my oxygen mask over my own face first because that whole industry is undercapitalized relative to the importance I think that it has for our world.
Andy Cross: Isn't United Airlines the largest air carrier in at least America?
Bill Mann: It is. We have clear skies with an increasing chance of bankruptcy later in the flight.
David Gardner: I'm not going to laugh at that but that's another big U transportation company. But Bill, as you're correctly surmising, there's another.
Bill Mann: I'm gonna guess U-Haul.
David Gardner: There's another besides it. You're right. U-Haul used to be called Amerco back in my stock-picking days when I picked it at one point. But I was thinking of Uber ticker symbol, U-B-E-R, a large, important U company in the transportation business. Turns out there's a lot of them out there. Bill, have you ever heard of Uber?
Bill Mann: We should pronounce it Uber I think.
David Gardner: It sounds like you've never actually used Uber then Bill?
Bill Mann: I've used a Uber Yes. I have absolutely availed myself of Uber's services from time-to-time.
David Gardner: What about Lift?
Bill Mann: Both.
David Gardner: Does it feel any different to you?
Bill Mann: No, and in fact, when you get in the cars, a lot of times they have both of the graphics.
David Gardner: You've got your driver flipping in one or the other. They do have different market caps though.
Bill Mann: Highly different.
David Gardner: Highly different. Let's just talk about the U one. Bill Mann, stock number 3 is Uber ticker symbol, U-B-E-R. It is pronounced Uber. What is your market cap range for Uber?
Bill Mann: I am going to say that the market cap range for Uber is 77 billion to 109 billion.
David Gardner: Seventy-seven billion to $109 billion players at home. Andy Cross. Before you answer, Andy, have you ever used Uber?
Andy Cross: I have. We use it mostly for eats nowadays.
David Gardner: Loving my Uber experience
Bill Mann: Andy might be using Uber right now
David Gardner: He did have a smartphone out. No, he didn't. That's illegal on this game.
Andy Cross: That is cheating.
David Gardner: Andy, Bill said 77 billion to 109 billion players at home. Andy agree or disagree?
Andy Cross: I disagree.
David Gardner: Shock up a point for the Andy Cross team and fan-based. Bill, it's not often you're losing in this game but all of a sudden Andy's up 2-1 because the market cap for Uber $158.05 billion. You can take all the other U companies combined almost and fit them underneath Uber's mark again. Actually doing the math now, not really [laughs] I will say this though, United Airlines is a lot smaller than Andy or I thought.
Andy Cross: For sure, $150 billion company, that's a large organization. They've certainly recently earned that market.
Bill Mann: Yeah, their stock has gone up a huge amount over the last 18 months and I don't think I correctly recalibrated what their market cap would be, which is why the show is actually important.
David Gardner: Thank you, Bill. That first U transportation company, Union Pacific was founded in 1862. Today, as we just learned, it's worth about $148 billion. Stock number 3, the transportation company that also starts with letter U. Uber was founded exactly 15 years ago this month, March 2009. It has a bigger market cap. I picked Uber just weeks after it came out as an IPO, May 23rd, 2019. I think that was Shakespeare's birthday or is that April? The stock was at 40.5 by one year later as COVID ensued, it had been cut in half. I didn't feel great about the stock pick. Today I am happy to say that if you just kept holding, Uber is about $75 a share. Meaning that even if you bought at the IPO with me, you're up 90%, less than five tumultuous years later, but I'm sad to say the market is up 100%, so we remain a few percentage points below market average. But Bill, you correctly referenced a monster move in the last 18 months. I'm happy to say that the Motley Fool Rule Breakers team called it out as a rerecommendation on July 14th, 2022, when it was at $20.65. In less than two years, our members buying Uber that day, get this, 268%.
David Gardner: Wow, Andy, you're up, 2-1. Let me turn to you for stock umber 4. The website for stock number 4 leads with this phrase, engineering exceptional experiences. Any guesses?
Andy Cross: I'm thinking a web design firm, maybe something like Wix.
David Gardner: They go on to say we combine IoT and AI with human interface technologies. Any new guesses and are you getting interested?
Andy Cross: I am getting interested in, I'm going to guess the symbol IOT, Samsara. IOT is indeed the ticker symbol used by Samsara, but this company is just referencing the Internet of Things, IoT on their webpage. I don't expect you wouldn't necessarily get this. I wouldn't have from the clues I've been giving. But stock Number 4 is Synaptics, ticker symbol SYNA engineering exceptional experiences combining the Internet of Things, and AI with human interface technologies. Andy Cross, your stated market cap range for Synaptics, SYNA.
Andy Cross: I think this is a rather large company, very successful. I am saying it is 88 billion to 100 billion. Eighty eight billion to $100 billion. Bill Mann, players at home agree or disagree.
Bill Mann: I'm going to disagree that it is in that range, although I have no idea which outside part I am hoping it is.
David Gardner: You didn't even have to offer that Bill, you could have looked even smarter if you just said disagree, because Andy was not even close. I think buzzwords like engineering exceptional experiences, IoT, AI, human interface technologies. I think that hypes it up. Synaptics is at $3.85 billion market cow, well outside Andy's range and Bill you didn't have to say you didn't know which side of it.
Bill Mann: I just wanted people to know that sometimes these companies are not familiar to us, even if they are Motley Fool recommendations. There's a huge installed base of companies that we recommend. Not every analyst comes to the table with a deep knowledge of every company.
David Gardner: That is absolutely true and that starts with me as well as your host. The good news for Bill is he just tied to Andy and for fans at home. For our ratings, we want this to be a dramatic ending if you guys can somehow get me there. Thank you, 2 to 2. Ten years ago, the stock, by the way, Synaptics, was at $60 a share. It made a heroic brief run, from 60 to 300 during COVID. Today it's at 97. It's up about 50%. Over the last 10 years, the market up 175%. Fun fact, my research team generated three reports at my request for the stock from 2012 through '14. As I was interested, how could you not be? But I ended up never picking in. Guys, you know, this, we don't really ever get or expect credit for the ones we don't pick. But it's still fun to note.
Andy Cross: Yeah, sure. Of course. We're researching stocks and businesses all the time. Apparently I'm not researching Synaptics.
David Gardner: Understand that. But you did describe yourself as interested as I read off their business and I am also interested in it.
Bill Mann: David, I think you should give yourself credit for having gone psychologically long.
Andy Cross: Give yourself a point, David.
David Gardner: I'm just glad we're talking about 10 or 12 years later and yeah, they're still in business, although with the stock up 50% or so, not bad over 10 years, but a laggard. Onto stock Number 5. Bill, are you a betting man?
Bill Mann: I've been known to wager from time-to-time.
David Gardner: Do you recall a recent sports bet you might've made?
Bill Mann: Oh gosh, it's been a little while.
David Gardner: People only ever remember their winners so obviously you won this bet.
Bill Mann: No. I actually can tell you that I had picked the University of North Carolina to win the national championship in 2017, when Villanova hit a last second shot to take not only the national championship away from North Carolina, it was beautiful show from Villanova, but also to take my winning away from me.
David Gardner: As a fellow Tar Heel, I still heard about that one. Kris Jenkins was the name of the Villanova player who knocked it down almost from half court. After Marcus page had hit one of the great three-pointers that I'll ever remember in North Carolina anyway, NCWA tournament history, but let's not go too deep.
Bill Mann: Lets put the band-aid back on.
David Gardner: What do you make of the new age that has dawned here in legal sports betting?
Bill Mann: It's going to change sports. I don't know for the better, but it is reality and the fact that you are technologically pretty much able to do it from anywhere means that the laws that were preventing it from happening, we're probably more archaic and we're not going to stop the tide so I'm here for it.
David Gardner: You know, when we think about stock market plays on this trend that is now here and that you're here for Bill, the most obvious is probably DraftKings ticker symbol DKNG, which is not stock Number 5. But when you think of a so-called picks and shovel company that isn't involved in the betting per se, but might be a supplier of data. Any company come to mind?
Bill Mann: There's one that's Genius Sports, that is a company that provides data. But that doesn't look to me like that's the one that you're talking about.
David Gardner: You're not expected to know everything even though we sometimes play that up Bill, it's not fair to you. I wouldn't be surprised if either or both of you might have heard of this company and/or researched and/or are brought it to at least members attention based in Switzerland. But with its prominent Sportradar, US subsidiary stock Number 5 is Sportradar. That's one word, Sportradar group AG ticker symbol SRAD. Bill, I'm turning back to you now for your market cap range for Sportradar Group AG, ticker symbol SRAD.
Bill Mann: Are we talking about dollar market cap or swiss franc?
David Gardner: We're going dollar denominate all show long.
Bill Mann: I'm just trying to delay.
David Gardner: You're allowed to do that. I'm helping you.
Bill Mann: I am going to say that it's range is $1.2 billion to $2.7 billion.
David Gardner: One point two billion to 2.7 billion players at home, you're about to say agree or disagree. Andy, as I turn to you, do you know this company, had you ever heard of this company before?
Andy Cross: I have heard of it before from one of our analysts who had talked about it and discussed it. I haven't studied it. I'm a little bit in the dark here, so I'm taking a little bit of a shot.
David Gardner: That's the way I think listeners at home like us to be a little bit in the dark. If we're too sure of ourselves, if were too right all the time, it's not as much fun.
Andy Cross: That is true.
Bill Mann: It's fun for us.
Andy Cross: After my answer it could be fun for Bill.
David Gardner: I think it was fun to hear you answer Synaptics and Bill react and we all learn together. Andy, Bill said 1.2 billion to 2.7 billion players at home. Andy, agree or disagree.
Andy Cross: I'm going to agree with Bill.
David Gardner: That's too bad because Bill was wrong, although not very far off. You're both scratching up the right tree. The market cap for Sportradar Group AG is $3.02 billion, just outside the top of Bills $2.7 dollar range. Therefore, the correct answer was disagree. Andy, you trusted Bill?
Andy Cross: I did. I trust Bill with most things when it comes to stock market gains.
David Gardner: I think a lot of people do. I don't think we can fault you for that. The company, if you go to their website, you'll see their tag line, sports technology.re-imagined. Through its subsidiary, I didn't know this Sportradar US. Sportradar is the official data provider for the NBA, Major League Baseball, NASCAR, ITF, NHL, FIFA, and UEFA.
Bill Mann: UEFA. But we're calling it UFA from here on out.
David Gardner: UEFA. I have to admit I watch a lot of those and I care about data. I had no idea that Sportradar US is the official data provider to all of those leagues and sports. DraftKings, by the way, the market cap for DraftKings is just over $20 billion. Here we have a company that's helping power that with data. It's not just for betting, it's the data. It's like the live reporting, if you game cast and watch, oh, they missed the shot.
They hit the shot in text on your smartphone. That's some of the data we're talking about here. Interesting company. Interesting to arrive at halftime with Bill Mann up 3-2. It's time for our round of halftime interviews. Now of course, this show can't yet afford its own sideline reporter yet. Let me just try to grab Bill Mann before he disappears into the locker room. Bill, the throw down is coming out one, two. Did that disrupt you or empower you?
Bill Mann: David, the stakes are so high in this type of event. I feel like not only are the throw downs coming out early, but a lot of the companies that we're hearing are much more obscure than ones that we usually come across. I feel like we're both performing at such a high level right now, but I feel like I've got my feet underneath me and I feel like we're really going to try and push through in the second half and see if we can get us a winner.
David Gardner: There were some obscure companies and those won't be the only ones looking ahead to the second half. Bill, would you say you're in Andy's head at this point?
Bill Mann: Oh, no, I don't think anybody should discount the talent that Andy Cross brings to the table and so no, I expect him to make some adjustments during the halftime and he's going to come out firing in the second half. A 3-2 lead I'm glad to have it. It's nice to have in the bank, but I do not under any circumstances think that that is going the way it's going to end up.
David Gardner: Thank you. Good luck. Andy Cross, I'm sure you're surprised to be down at this point. Anything that Bill did that may have surprised you.
Andy Cross: Well, I'm not surprised to be down and Bill's a fierce competitor and super smart guy. The Synaptics shell shocked me a little bit. I think I was confusing it with another ticker, I felt pretty confident about that once that one came out, that that was rough. That was in my head a little bit. Listen David, I hope on my second-half team. Bill obviously is going to continue to bring his game so I've got to bring mine.
David Gardner: Down 3-2. Andy, are you think you maybe switching to decaf are going straight for the energy drinks during halftime?
Andy Cross: No. I'm up in the game. I'm going right for the energy drinks. I'm grabbing my Celsius, Monster Energy. Whatever they are I hope those are tickers there because I know what those market caps are.
David Gardner: All right, the second half begins. Andy, what are some really common words that appear in the names of US businesses?
Andy Cross: The.
David Gardner: You can't count that.
Andy Cross: Come on.
Bill Mann: Incorporated.
David Gardner: You can't go with incorporated or corp.
Andy Cross: South.
David Gardner: Sure, North.
Andy Cross: North?
David Gardner: West, yeah. Others?
Bill Mann: America.
David Gardner: You bet, America. I'll give you some more, national, general, united, global. If you start stringing some of these together and I had ChatGPT do this for me, you can just invent fictional companies, generic names, generic businesses. Here are a few real quick: Global Premier Enterprises, the nationwide leader in innovative business solutions.
Dynamic American United, merging technology and tradition across the US, and finally, Quality General National, standard-setting services in diverse industries nationwide. All of those companies are fictional and yet they're using words that are so common they just disappear into the ether and out of our memories. Andy, if you are trying to create a company that was not noticed and you wanted to operate in the banking industry. What might you name your bank?
Andy Cross: I would use a lot of ampersands. I think ampersands go well with banking especially so I'm throwing at least one, if not two ampersands in there, David.
David Gardner: This company doesn't, but they're definitely out there, but US Bancorp, ticker symbol USB. One of the more generic imaginable names in corporate America today, US Bank based in Minneapolis, Minnesota is the flagship. When you just talk about generic names that you're not really going to remember, I was searching for the right tag line for US Bank. I couldn't really find one, it just made me think of the nationwide leader in innovative business solutions. Andy Cross, your stated market cap range for ticker symbol USB.
Andy Cross: I think USB is between 62 billion and 70 billion.
David Gardner: Seven zero billion. Bill Mann, have you ever banked with one of US Bancorp's subsidiaries?
Bill Mann: No, I actually haven't. Since you couldn't find a tag line for them, I think maybe we should invent one, "US Bank trustworthy".
David Gardner: That works for me, and actually it's worked quite a long time for this company which has been around a long time in the United States of America and we definitely don't mean to besmirch them in any way. This is an impressive company, just a really generic-sounding name and not the most interesting business. Bill, places at home, Andy said 62 billion to $70 billion. Do you want to agree with that range or disagree with that range?
Bill Mann: I think he's a little bit off, I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Andy was right. In fact, it was almost right at the median of the numbers that he provided in his range because US Bancorp's market cap is 65.90 billion. Andy, your 62-70 was like crazy, good.
Andy Cross: Well, I think it has to do with these ticker symbols that begin with 'U'. I think I'm finding my rhythm now, I think let's bring out some more of those David.
Bill Mann: I think we're out.
David Gardner: No spoilers, it is 3-3 in our world championships. I'm getting increasingly excited. I will mention US Bank has been recommended a few times in the latter half of last year by some Motley Fool services and the stock is performing. I'll also mention it has a 4.5% Dividend yield, high probably by historical circumstances, but given interest rates somewhat competitive.
US Bancorp, Minneapolis, Minnesota. I talked last week about a couple of Minnesota companies that were underperformers, so it's good because I'm a fan of the state of Minnesota, it's good to talk about a winner. I'm surrounded by winners, let's move on to stock Number 7. Bill, the S&P 400, the MidCap 400, your thoughts? It's like the most non-pressed question.
Bill Mann: Is US Bank in it?
David Gardner: Talk about that.
Bill Mann: Is First Federal in it? Amalgamated dynamic Corporation?
Andy Cross: Amalgamated.
David Gardner: Do you ever pay attention to the MidCap 400?
Bill Mann: No, I feel like you should though.
David Gardner: Why? Because you're not.
Bill Mann: It is measuring something that is very specific. When people talk about the market, they're generally talking about the S&P 500, and the S&P 500, it sounds like the S&P 400. One hundred less, but it actually is about 5% of the size of the S&P 500. There are some dynamic companies in that mix and in that range, and a lot of times the companies that do end up being some of the largest companies in the world start there.
David Gardner: Well said. Over the past decade, by the way, the S&P Midcap 400 is up 115%, the S&P 500, 175%, so it has been well outperformed over the last 10 years, although I did go back and check it. I think I have this right; the past three decades, the Midcap 400 added up 1,375%, basically a 14-bagger, and the S&P 500 up 850% well behind. Bill, in your mind, should an S&P 400 company have a Wikipedia page?
Bill Mann: Absolutely, they should have a Wikipedia page.
David Gardner: Well, this one does not yet. Now our enterprising listeners have a history of me saying this thing on this podcast and then all of a sudden someone or something, or in this case, some company that did not have a Wikipedia page all of a sudden does by our next Rule Breaker Investing mailbag. Which is a reminder to me to say two things first, next week is mailbag our 101st, our email address is [email protected]. You dear listener, as always, are invited to drop us a note with feedback on the show.
Perhaps on this mad month of March or questions for me, ideas, thoughts, poems, you name it. It's a Motley mailbag month-in and month-out for Rule Breaker Investing. That's reminder Number 1, next week is mailbag, if you'd like to appear on it, drop us a line [email protected]. Second, this company does not presently have a Wikipedia page. How remarkable and surprising might it be? I don't know. I'm not saying anyone should do this, but if all of a sudden, by an upcoming mailbag, this company did all of a sudden finally have at least a rudimentary working Wikipedia page, how amazing. Back to the show, Bill Mann.
Bill Mann: Are you going to ask me to guess what company it is based on the fact that it doesn't have a Wikipedia page?
Andy Cross: Then create one.
David Gardner: That is just bad sportsmanship on my part, I will not do that but may I be blunt Bill? I'm just going to come right out and ask it, what is your market cap range for Inari Medical ticker symbol N-A-R-I?
Bill Mann: Inari Medical is going to have a market gap between 0 and $4.4 billion.
David Gardner: Zero billion to 4.4 billion Bill always innovating. No one has ever rocked a zero in our 28-plus historic market cap game shows. Andy, players at home Bill just went with the ultimate low ball zero billion up to $4.4 billion. Inari Medical ticker symbol N-A-R-I and S&P Midcap 400 company without a Wikipedia page, Andy, players at home. Do you want to agree with Bill 0-4.4 billion or disagree?
Andy Cross: I mean, these are the wildcards that get thrown out by Bill Mann and get you thinking, I'm going to anyone who's doing a zero out there and it's never happened. Bill is doing it. I'm going to agree with Bill on this one.
David Gardner: Andy just took a lead based on a pretty good call by Bill, which often makes you think is this show right. That's not fair. Bill did a good job. Why is Andy get the point? But if with Andy, you agreed with Bill's range, give yourself a plus one Inari Medical ticker symbol NARI $2.55 billion. Inari Medical has created special tools specifically for treating vein diseases unlike others that just adapt artery tools, they focused on safely removing blood clots in veins with two main devices, the FlowTriever and the ClotTriever, designed for this purpose. These devices guys officially approved for clot removal and the FlowTriever is notably recognized for treating lung blood clots. Bill, Andy, had you ever heard of Inari Medical?
Bill Mann: I had in fact, but I was waiting for the moment to drop a zero and just to see what happened.
David Gardner: Burn it on Inari medical.
Andy Cross: No, I figured that was a good place because Andy gave me that look like, I don't know. I had heard of Inari, but not studied in at all.
David Gardner: Well, it is a two-time Rule Breakers rack from the year 20-23. Both are down though, about a third from a year ago. This coming clearly doing something helpful to some people in this world not a great stock picks so far.
Bill Mann: Early days.
David Gardner: Andy, you have a four to three lead.
Andy Cross: I'm still nervous, David. I'm still nervous. Bill is a closer through and through. I got to keep my game going on.
David Gardner: This is close. I'm excited about stock number 8 Andy, for some years now, I've been using the phrase age of miracles to characterize this present era because when you look at the healthcare landscape and the technology that's all around us, you can't help but be amazed if you're paying attention CRISPR gene editing, immunotherapies for cancer, mRNA vaccines, COVID 1 comes to mind, organ transplants, 3D bio printing. Andy, when you think of innovations over the last 10 years which have enabled people with diseases largely to live normal or more normal lives. Anything come to mind for you?
Andy Cross: I would say to drug discoveries have been just incredible, but then also robotic surgery has been a really nice innovation, is really starting to gain market share.
David Gardner: It's a reminder that there are so many great solutions today already and even more coming giving a lot of hope and promise for those of us as we keep aging who are enjoying life and are hoping to live a good long time. The innovations you just mentioned are not connected to this company, but they're good examples. Andy Dexcom is a company that specializes in developing, manufacturing, and distributing continuous glucose monitoring systems for people with diabetes.
Technology provides real-time insights into blood glucose levels, enabling patients to manage their condition more effectively. Growing up, I had a few diabetic kid friends in my class and they had to pick their finger, do blood tests. You don't have to do that anymore. Dexcom's sensors are worn on the body and they monitor your glucose levels continuously, sending the data to your smartphone. Andy Cross, your stated market cap range for Dexcom ticker symbol DXCM.
Andy Cross: I'm going to say 18 billion-23 billion.
David Gardner: $18 billion to $23 billion players at home. Bill Mann.
Bill Mann: These confounded tight ranges. I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: If you disagreed, give yourself along with Bill a plus one that ties the game at four to four. Dexcom's market cap, pretty big these days, $51.41 billion. This is a really impressive medical equipment company. I've recommended many different stocks over the course of time, as have you guys. A lot of the drug companies, especially biotech image or harder to know, they're more binary outcomes. They either get the FDA approval or not. But companies that have medical equipment often safer plays FDA approval a little bit easier to come by. This is one example. There are others out there too.
Andy Cross: It's interesting because with all of the GLP discoveries, it's really hit some of the stocks of some of the medical companies. And so I was thinking maybe Dexcom was along those lines, but clearly too low.
David Gardner: This is definitely a company we've followed at The Motley Fool. In fact, I picked it for Motley Fool Stock Advisor for years ago. Let the record show the date was, oh my gosh, 02, 20, 2020 not sure really what that means, but Dexcom, since February 20, 2020 is up 80%, the market is up 55%. As a long-term hold, this stock has been a monster. It was around 10,10 years ago today, over $130 a share. I often think that the companies that do important things in this world spots some of the better investment returns you can find on our markets Dexcom is a great example.
Bill Mann: I think it's important. You'd mentioned with medical device companies, a lot of times the companies that have successfully innovated are ones that continue to do so. I think with Biotech, it is such a hit and miss industry, but a company like Dexcom that has already proven itself, even though the stock is up substantially from where it was, I would not be surprised if it continues to innovate.
David Gardner: Well said Bill, gentlemen we have two stocks left. The score is four to four players at home. If you're for or higher, you are also up for a world championship bid here as we hit stocked number 9, Bill Mann, let's talk volatility a little bit. Let's stick with fairly well-known stocks, at least mid-cap sized. Let's also stick with healthcare, which we've already been spending some time with. But we're talking here about a stock that has been violently volatile. We're talking volatility of 500% up. Then the violent part 95% down, 500% up, 95% down all in just the past five years, is this normal Bill?
Bill Mann: That means it's up 405%, right David?
David Gardner: Definitely not. I appreciate what I'm mathlete you clearly are Bill. We know to laugh at that because that's how to present it up as amazing. But when you go down 95% from that point, your way below where you started. I'm sorry to say because this is one of my stock picks. It's all crazy. You don't have so proud when it rolled up to those mega gains. Now I'm so bummed out about I'm actually confused maybe you guys can help me as much as anything. These shares have been kicked into the gutter. Any guesses as to which company we're talking about?
Bill Mann: I would but I'm not sure that I wanted to just start rolling out names that have gone badly.
David Gardner: Let me give a hint. It was COVID, and so stocks that really benefited from the COVID environment. A lot of people are sick and we couldn't maybe wouldn't go to the doctor's office.
Bill Mann: That would be Teladoc.
David Gardner: Yeah. We're talking about Teladoc, ticker symbol TDOC before I ask you for your market cap range, have you guys used telehealth services?
Andy Cross: I have not.
Bill Mann: During COVID, we certainly did and we have a daughter who is immunocompromised. And so having that opportunity and access was really, really comforting. This is a company that yes, the stock has not done very well. We are personally very hopeful that it continues to do well.
David Gardner: We can talk a little bit more about that stock in a sec, but let me now turn back to you Bill and say, what is your stated market cap range for Teladoc? Ticker symbol TDOC.
Bill Mann: Teladoc is somewhere between 5.4 billion and 11.1 billion.
David Gardner: Five point four billion to 11.1 billion Bill opting with one decimal this time not zero and not two. Andy, players that own 5.4-11.1.
Andy Cross: I'm going to disagree with Bill.
David Gardner: That was the correct call because, Bill I'm sorry to say Teladoc is even smaller than that. That 95% has brought Teladoc down to a 2.52 billion-dollar market cap. It was a merger. You guys remember it was a merger aimed at combining Teladoc's telemedicine services with Livongo's data-driven approach to chronic disease management, diabetes, hypertension. It was going to be a comprehensive virtual healthcare platform. This all occurred during COVID.
Andy Cross: It did, David and it was a massive merger of these two companies, which I think Bill own a lot of stock, if I'm remembering correctly. Even from the get-go it was very difficult for them to start getting together and for shareholders to get a handle on what it meant.
David Gardner: It is tough when you merge two large companies. The integration challenges alone are tough, but the expectations were sky-high, certainly during COVID for a lot of COVID-friendly stocks, expectations were even higher than that, but it was October 2020. I was just checking in. Livongo helped merger, Teladoc low 200s the stock surges to $300 a share at the 2021 peak, 75-year later, you're after that 35. Now it's at $15 a share. The telehealth market is big as it's a bit saturated with a lot of different players. I think that's part of the problem here also Bill, maybe a lack of profitability.
Bill Mann: David, a lot of people don't know this, but companies are in business eventually to make money.
David Gardner: I think you're being funny.
Bill Mann: I think I'm attempting to be funny.
David Gardner: Well, here obviously it's a sad situation, especially because it says stock pick of mine and it's not peak, such a great winner and then such a bad performer. But sarcasm aside, part of what happened here is these companies were not a mature phase fully because they were growing, but they were mature enough that you would expect /hope you'd be showing profitability and here we are, not a few years later.
Bill Mann: They were moving into a space where there really wasn't an installed competitor. It was a reasonable guess, at the time that Teladoc was going to be one of the companies that was ultimately going to succeed and it might, but it is a much more competitive space now than it was say in 2019 and 2020.
David Gardner: It all comes down and down the stretch. They'd come stock number 10, Andy, five Bill four, players at home anywhere 0-9. I know you're out there. Andy what formative reading did you do as a school boy any book series you may have read during summers, that word summer required reading.
Andy Cross: I did love the Chronicles of Narnia and going through those, but I also like this series called The Big Brain. I don't know if this brings the bell for any readers out there.
David Gardner: Great Brain, thank you.
Andy Cross: I used to read through those as an amateur detective.
David Gardner: He was a little bit before our time, but Horatio Alger junior, who was born in 1832, died in 1899, was an American author. I know you guys have heard the name. He wrote young adult novels about impoverished boys and they're rise from humble backgrounds to middle-class security and comfort through good works. His writings were characterized by the rags to riches narrative and that's why these days we say that's a Horatio Alger story.
Andy rags to riches, the American Dream. Related that we're an investing show would be rags to riches stocks. We've all had him the stories you love to tell about the little engine that could that you put in your portfolio and it, I think I can't, it's way too glory, rags to riches, any come to mind for you, Andy?
Andy Cross: Buffalo Wild Wings is one that I just always love. Bill and I and Tom and others had followed is as years ago and it was eventually bought out. But just a new restaurant concept coming into the market, which is a fun one to cheer for it mainly because we also enjoy, it was a great company and well-run, but we also enjoyed eating there.
David Gardner: I see Bill with big smile on his face, lots of great full memories and Tom, what a great call Buffalo Wild Wings. You guys as a team that's a good Horatio Alger stock. Related to that, maybe even more interesting, or redemption or the rarer riches to rags to riches, stocks guys, I'm sure you each have a story, Andy.
Andy Cross: Well, the one that always jumps to mind in this case is Netflix, did so well. Then the decision to move to the Qwikster model for about 13 months, 18 months, the stock had lost about 70% of its value. Only to then rebound.
David Gardner: It's still feels fresh to me, the fresh wounds a little bit of it. It's now more than a decade ago. Time keeps passing good example, Bill, riches to rags to riches.
Bill Mann: There was a company that Tom and I were both very fond of and I think Andy, you were as well when we were back in Hidden Gems days and Tom had recommended a company called Select Comfort, I believe it's called Sleep Number today.
David Gardner: It is.
Bill Mann: It went from a single-digit price stock to $51-$0.50. Now it is somewhere in the midpoint but it's priced as if it was disappearing.
David Gardner: It made a huge comeback. It hasn't been great in recent years. In fact, it popped up earlier this month on March, market cap matters, but that is another good example. You love your rags to riches stories, but maybe even more amazing are the riches to rags to riches story stock Number 10 has been that for Motley Fool Rule Breakers members, Impinj provides RFID radio-frequency identification tags and we're going to go with it again.
IoT, Internet of Things, technology connecting items Andy, like apparel and medical supplies to the Internet so you can track them in real time. That enhances, of course, your inventory management. It reduces costs, improved customer experiences across various sectors who doesn't love the Find My app on their smartphone. This company does that for lots and lots of things, bridging the gap between physical items and digital data, boosting efficiency and insights. We're going to talk about that stock in a little while. But first Andy Cross with a world championship on the line, you are up, one point. I'm going to turn to you now for all the marbles and ask you, what is your market cap range for Impinj ticker symbol PI?
Andy Cross: David, I'm going to say, eight billion to.
Andy Cross: Thirteen billion.
David Gardner: Eight billion-$13 billion, Bill. It's very rare that you're ever losing this game. I'm not sure you've ever actually lost a game of the Market Cap Game Show. Your back is against the wall but you are not shaking it all. In fact, you have a confident smile on your face. Eight billion-13 billion is what Andy said for Impinj. Players at home, Bill Mann, and feel free to give us a little bit more about why. Bill, do you want to agree or disagree with Andy's range?
Bill Mann: I'm just questioning the psychological game that he is playing by changing his number.
David Gardner: I heard that he was like nine, hold on, eight. We edit out a lot, all of my miscues, we always edit out on this show. People don't hear them. We left that one in. I think that was gamesmanship.
Bill Mann: That was at best gamesmanship. I'm not sure that I'm very pleased with Andy Cross right now, but I'm just saying it's a delaying tactic. I am going to say that I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Players at home, what did you think, agree, or disagree? You're back might be up against the wall as well. If you agreed with what Bill just said, which is that he disagreed, give yourself a plus one. We are 5-5 going to sudden death in the world championship of the Market Cap Game Show. Bill, how confident were you there was that a guess? You don't have to hit it.
Bill Mann: It was a guess. It was absolutely a guess.
David Gardner: This is a really interesting company. I actually picked it. It was December 21, 2016. The stock was at $38 and 33 cents, so 38 and a third, December 2016. Two years later, as 2018 ends, stocks dropped to 14, didn't feel good. Today, Impinj is at $120 a share. It's a 3-bagger from the original pick, almost a 10-bagger from its neighed year a couple of years later. Guys, riches, which is where it was. It was thriving when I first picked it to rags, and now to unforeseen riches, blowing out the market. You look like you might be dying to say something you might be saying.
Andy Cross: I'm just dying to learn the market cap of Impinj because I really did not know.
David Gardner: Oh my gosh, did the MC forget to give the answer? I get carried away sometimes, $3.27 billion was the market cap of Impinj. There has been some rags to riches to rags for both of my contestants at different points just this week to say nothing of the Final 4 that led them to the mountaintop where we three stand right now looking over the whole world as it was. It's like we're on Mount Olympus and one of you is about to ascend into the heavens to Foolhalla, am I overstating? To Foolhalla.
Bill Mann: No, you are not.
David Gardner: We'll be frozen forever on top of this mountain, maybe statuesque and remembered as the first runner up.
Andy Cross: I'm glad I dressed up then if I win this.
David Gardner: This is the perfect ending to our first ever world championship. Long time listeners will know we always have a tiebreaker in our back pocket. There is always an 11th stock waiting in the wings if necessary with our tiebreaker stock. Andy and Bill, I'm not going to be cute or beat around the bush. I'm going to give you right now the 11th stock that will determine our world championship. The ticker symbol is LYV, it's Live Nation Entertainment.
I will just give a little bit of fun facts for our listeners as Andy and Bill puzzle out their single best, tightest market cap range for Live Nation Entertainment. It is a global leader in live event and entertainment services specializing in concert promotions, ticket sales, venue operations. It owns, leases, operates, and it has booking rights for more than 300 venues, that includes concert halls, stadiums, and theaters.
It also has relationships with a lot of the performers who appear in those venues and it has the platform Ticketmaster as well, which is by the way, how Live Nation Entertainment came to be. It started as a merger of Live Nation, the concert promoter, and Ticketmaster the ticket sales and distribution company. I see the pencils are now down. I will turn alphabetically to Andy Cross first. Andy, your best market cap guests, it's not a guess, for Live Nation Entertainment, ticker symbol LYV.
Andy Cross: Seventeen billion-25 billion.
David Gardner: Seventeen billion-$25 billion. Bill Mann, your market cap range for LYV.
Bill Mann: My market cap range was 21-$31 billion.
David Gardner: I really like first of all, that there's some overlap.
Bill Mann: I do too because I had no idea and I don't need to game this at this point.
David Gardner: What's great about that is you're both very close and you both have tight ranges that overlap with each other and remarkably. You've nailed it so well that this company's market cap is in both of your ranges. Whoever is tighter and closer with his parameter is going to win our world championship. The market cap of Live Nation Entertainment is $23.9 billion. Bill, you said 21 on the low end, you're off 2.9. Andy, you said 25 on the high end, you're off 1.1. Andy Cross, you have just become our world champion. That is just such a great way and such a great challenge, that's incredible. Handshakes all around here in the studios. You both are superstars and you just proved it. Andy, you're showing Bill something off your yellow index card.
Andy Cross: I first wrote down 16-24 and then I shifted it up a little bit, so I was fortunate to still get the win, but I was close to getting it wrong.
David Gardner: You both had tight ranges. Players at home, if you said Andy, give yourself a plus one, although if you said Bill, you can give yourself a plus dot one or something. That was really fascinating.
Rick Engdahl: Is it supposed to be whoever's closest to the number or whoever has the tighter range, and is that still Andy? No, this is great. Sorry, this one went to VAR.
David Gardner: That's a good point, Rick Engdahl, I was thinking it was the closest parameter to the actual score, but Rick reminds you, let me check the rule book. Sure enough, here it is, the Stephens sudden death rule. Yes, we have a rule book for this game if both are correct and I quote, "The tighter range wins." It's actually the same either way. Andy's range was $8 billion, 17-25. Bill's, this was close, 21-30, $9 billion. Andy with $8 billion had the tighter range and wins. Guys, this could not have been closer. Andy Cross, 5.5. Bill Mann, 5.0, that is our final accounting.
But Andy and Bill know that in addition to the world championship, that we've just concluded, we're not playing for ourselves, we're playing for you. There's some world champions out there too guys, the total of the winning scores from the first two weeks, as mentioned at the start, was 13. Six from Andy, seven from Bill, Andy, you just stacked up 5.5 on top of that so if you're scoring yourself and you can, you could have, you still could all month long.
The winning World Championship total, for players at home, 6 + 7 + 5.5, 18.5 points for world championships across the world. If you met or exceeded our number, I say, I don't know, give yourself a day off tomorrow, just tell them, we permitted you to do so, open a bottle of champagne, let others around you know, you're the new king or queen. What have you? Because you earned it. In fact, tweet us at RBI podcast with your final total. Andy, Bill, final thoughts from you both. I'm going to turn to you first, Andy.
Andy Cross: David, there's just so many people to thank [laughs] and I think I'll just keep this brief. Bill, is just a great challenge around this table, and with producer Rick behind the glass, we must have 100 years of Foolishness here. Bill and I have been studying stocks, David, with you and Tom and so many others. It's a fun way, it's a great challenge. I think really I owe a lot to Live Nation, so I don't know it, but I think I have to use it and go to one another venues.
Bill Mann: I think you should just send them a convenience fee as well.
Andy Cross: I know I'm not getting it back from them, so I think I'd have to.
David Gardner: Excellent valence. By the way, they still work with Madonna. She was one of their biggest acts they signed and partnered with years ago. I saw she is back in New York City doing concerts in recent weeks, criticized for starting her concerts late. In fact, some people even tried to sue her or Live Nation for the harm that came from intentionally perhaps, perhaps not starting her concerts too late, inconveniencing others. But let's not get dragged down in the muck here, let's turn back to Bill Mann. What a noble runner up. Bill, your final thoughts?
Bill Mann: Andy is a worthy champion. I'm not going to lie. This hurts. It doesn't hurt as bad as spelling go wrong in fourth grade.
David Gardner: With an X.
Bill Mann: With an X, but it hurts. But I feel like I gave it my best shot and that is all you can ask for. You're not going to be right every time, but if you're right more than you're wrong, you're going to do great in investing and in life.
David Gardner: Thank you, Bill Mann. Andy, Bill, you both distinguished yourselves today and this whole month. Help make the world a little bit smarter, happier, and richer. It's always a pleasure to be around this greatness and these guys really are great at the Market Cap Game Show. Both worthy finalists and serious mathletes and Fools as well. I'm just glad to be on your team. Thank you, both.
David Gardner: Thanks, David.
Bill Mann: Thanks, David.
David Gardner: Thus concludes our first ever world championship for the Market Cap Game Show. We declare March, market cap, madness is at its end. Stay mad. We'll see you next week. Fool on
