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Newtek Business Services Corp (NASDAQ:NEWT)
Q3 2020 Earnings Call
Nov 5, 2020, 8:30 a.m. ET

Contents:

  • Prepared Remarks
  • Questions and Answers
  • Call Participants

Prepared Remarks:

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. And welcome to the Newtek Business Services Corporation Q3 2020 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]

I would now like to turn the conference over to your host today, Mr. Barry Sloane, CEO and President of Newtek Business Services Corporation.

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Thank you very much, operator and good morning. I am Barry Sloane, President and CEO of Newtek Business Services Corp.; our stock symbol NEWT on the NASDAQ. With me today is Chris Towers, Executive Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer. For those of you that would like to follow along on our presentation, I'd like to suggest that you go to our website, newtekone.com, N-E-W-T-E-K-O-N-E.com, go to the Investor Relations section where we have a PowerPoint presentation for all of you to follow along.

And once again, welcome to our third quarter 2020 financial results conference call. I would like to point all of you to the note on our forward looking statements on slide one and move everybody over to slide two where we could talk about our third quarter 2020 financial highlights. Net investment income for the quarter was $1.7 million or $0.08 a share. That was an over performance versus a $0.03 a share loss for three months ended September 30, 2019.

Adjusted net investment income came in at $0.04 a share for the three months ended September 30, 2020. That was compared to $12.2 million or $0.63 for the same period last year. This was an underperformance based upon us ceasing lending activities in the end of the first quarter, which we've now started up. But it was a beat on the street relative to consensus, negative 0.015. So the $0.04 that came in beat the consensus analysts of negative $0.015.

Net asset value came in at $324 million or $15.13 a share versus NAV of $15.70. A lot of that was due to the redistribution of cash that was earned in the second quarter performance that distribution of the cash versus the earnings drove NAV down. We do expect NAV to normalize. And historically, we've been able to grow our net asset value over time. We believe that a reduction, we did this in the first quarter of this year in NAV particularly in the loan portfolio was appropriate given the uncertainty relating to the pandemic activities.

But we feel very good about our valuation of our loan portfolio and our other assets and believe going forward that not only will we hope to be able to stabilize this, but hope to be able to grow NAV and dividends, which we've been able to do over a history of being a BDC dating back to November 11, 2014. Debt-to-equity ratio 1.21x; fairly low for our organization. Once again, we have restarted lending activities as of June 30, so that should pick up both debt-to-equity as well as the generation from 7(a) lending, beginning in the fourth quarter of this year.

Let's move to slide three. Slide three is a little bit of a repeat of what I discussed in slide two relative to the shifting metrics in the business in the first quarter. When you look at the three months ended September 30, 2020, net investment income increased significantly, a lot of that was due to the PPP financing both in the third quarter; you can see that change as well in the second quarter.

PPP lending is an above the line form of income. And we reduce their gain on sale which affects that adjusted NOI in the same quarter. So we're going to have different and difficult quarterly comparisons, we always point to what we do over the course of the year that we pay our dividends out of earnings, which we've always been able to do as part of a dividend policy.

And we're very, very pleased with the guidance that we have for the remainder of 2020 as well as going forward into 2021. Looking at slide four, you've also got a repeat of those shifting metrics that I talked about. Net investment income of $31 million or $1.49 a share, obviously an outperformance versus an investment loss of $2.6 million once again based upon PPP versus curtailment of the 7(a) lending activity. But once again, we're repositioning ourselves to the growth of 7(a); we look forward to always paying our investors a reliable dividend, growing a dividend and a stable to growing anything.

Let's move forward to slide six. For those investors that follow the company, I think you're fairly well familiar by the Paycheck Protection Program. Obviously, we performed very well in 2020 off of that we had some significant, but I'll call it residual income in the third quarter that came in from PPP. And we're hopeful that they'll be a third round of PPP funding, which is believed to provide the company with an opportunity to generate additional income from additional PPP loans.

There's no guarantee Congress will approve a new stimulus package. However, clearly the rhetoric coming from the Senate, the house and the administration is been positive about further stimulus. I think we've got to get the politics of the election out of the way, but even Mitch McConnell made a comment yesterday about providing additional stimulus to the economy. Sure, third round of PPP funding approved.

We've laid some guidance that which we'll talk about shortly, that guidance does not include additional PPP funding, if it did come in, we probably would classify that as a special dividend which could come in the fourth quarter of 2020, or in 2021. Moving to slide six, we have funded in the third quarter $82 million PPP loans in the quarter ended September 30, 2020, rounded up to close about $1.2 billion of PPP loans for the nine months ended September 30, 2020, we got a little over $3 million in fees that came in through the third quarter picked up 10,500 new borrowers and aggregate.

And we believe that with these borrowers 130,000 employees were retained during that period of time, we funded two years worth of loan production, we say in slightly over six months. Although 90% of that work was done frankly, within a two month period of time, we were able to sell our PPP loans to third parties, so almost 99%, 98% of it was removed off their books where we partner with banks to sell them 100% participation certificates which enabled us to record the full income from the TPP activity.

On slide seven, we talked about restarting our 7(a) loan business. Once again, this is pretty much from a debt start-up of June 29, 2020 to build a portfolio; we find the $13 million of 7(a) loans during the three months. And we anticipate funding approximately $135 million of 7(a) loans in the fourth quarter of 2020 to get our normalized business back up and running again. Now that we've got more visibility going forward, as well as underwriting criteria that's required to make I would call it appropriate loans and performing loans.

We did curtail our lending activity right at the beginning of March, which pretty much hurt the first quarter's results, and for the rest of the year, but we're back in business. And as you'll see, our referral pipeline is growing in a robust manner. Our business model working on all cylinders, and we're very excited about our future going forward. We would like to reiterate that in the second quarter of 2020, we renewed our existing $150 million line of credit facility for 7(a) lending with Capital One Bank for a period of three years.

Moving to slide eight, Newtek Business Lending, our wholly owned portfolio company which originates SBA 504 loans closed approximately $50 million worth of loans through October 31. Clearly an outperform versus where this business activity has been in the past. We are anticipating fundings are closings of about $100 million for the year that would enable us to have a fairly nice contribution from NBL that could be between $1 million and $3 million in dividend income into the company in 2020, primarily based upon SBA 504 lending in the third and fourth quarters of this calendar year.

We did close or I should say we are closing on the renewal subject to documentation that probably should get completed within the next week on our existing $75 million facility line of credit with Capital One Bank for 504 lending. And that will be for a three year period of time. We're proud of the fact that we've been able to renew all our bank lines of credit during a difficult period. And we're also negotiating a new term sheet with a funder for an additional $75 million of SBA 504.

The 504 financing market extremely attractive between the funding that the government provides with a 40% second debenture and our 50% conventional first, high LTV loans that we don't absorb that type of high LTV risk is the government provides the 40% second, and the benchers on that program have like a 2.5% handle which has made this a very attractive investment vehicle for borrowers looking to acquire, refinance, or rehabilitate a real estate where the business is in that real estate and owns the real estate.

Moving to slide nine, our Company paid third quarter 2020 cash dividends of $0.58 a share. Company has paid a total of $1.58 in cash dividends for the first three quarters of 2020. That compares to $1.44 in dividends for the first three quarters and nine months of 2019. Almost the 9.7% increase, we're going to give guidance for the rest of the year. So we have actually been an out performer in paying dividends to our shareholders, we realize that our investment community as well as management I might add enjoys the benefit of receiving dividends on a regular basis as our interests are very much aligned. And we're proud of the fact that we've been able to grow the dividend through the first nine months of the year.

And as we restart our business, we have revised our 2020 annual dividend forecast between --we've revised it and narrowed it, it was previously a $1.80 to $2.30 as we get more visibility where that $1.90 to $2.20. And we tighten that up a little bit. The company paid a 2019 annual cash dividend of $2.15 a share. Given how difficult a year this has been, particularly for most financial institutions and businesses in general, we're proud of the fact that we hope to get close to beat or be equivalent to the prior dividend that we paid in the 2019 year period of time.

The company does anticipate that its Board will declare its fourth quarter dividend somewhere around Thanksgiving that will be payable before December 31, 2020. We're also forecasting an annual cash dividend between $2 and $2.50 per share in 2021 to resume our activity of being able to hopefully grow our dividend on a regular basis. By the way, these dividend forecasts both for 2020 and 2021 do not include the potential benefit of an additional PPP program, which was very significant, obviously in 2020 for the company. If we did get an additional PPP program, we'd probably pay that out for the special dividend, which could occur in the fourth quarter of 2020 or in 2021.

Moving to slide 10 as we look at our business holistically; we as an organization and the management team have historically been able to emphasize that we are adaptable and flexible in our business model. And we've been able to clearly provide a seamless transaction of working remotely, the company is still approximately 90% working remotely at this point in time 10% going into the offices is voluntary.

It clearly is not an easy transition back into an office environment particularly with infection rates running high and federal suggestions and state laws, how to handle the pandemic we are very sensitive to the health and well being of our employees and our staff will continue to maintain a model that keeps our employees health conscious first and foremost in our minds.

We believe our business model is ideal for the post pandemic economy. Without the use of branches, brokers, business development officers, limited salesforce contact with end users, our referral based system is really sterling in this particular environment. Obviously, business owners don't go into financial institutions branch or to see a salesperson.

Remote business is the future of these business solution markets going forward, we will see and anticipate a tremendous shift from the PPP, the paychecks as the financial institutions using feet on the street sales people to go acquire business. We also like what we refer to as the five silos. We have lending solutions that are just great for customers. We'll talk about that shortly why lending solutions are are unique in terms of how they're structured and superior to banks, our lending solutions, our IT portfolio companies are very valuable particularly with shifting to remote work.

And we have tremendous relevant products there to offer independent business owners, obviously payroll health and benefits shifting around, where businesses need help calculating information to get loan forgiveness on PPP. Obviously, the healthcare and benefits market is shifting with Covid picking the right healthcare provider making sure that you have the right program in place.

We also have Obama Care, being looked at by the Supreme Court. So being able to provide solutions to businesses that are changing in a rapidly changing environment is what Newtek Business Services Corp does. We are your business solutions company. Clearly the same issues transcend into, I'll call it health and benefits area and property and casualty area, a lot of changes going on there for premiums and insurance coverage.

Our Insurance Agency stands by to help independent business owners. Our payment processing business is very well positioned going forward. We'll talk about our POS on cloud investment and how well that's going and we plan on rolling out and launching our website within the next week or two which will make an announcement on. Obviously, the utilization of paper currency and coin less prevalent, technological solutions like tap and go, contactless payments, e-commerce, very much involved. And we have those solutions that are very well positioned for our customer bases going forward.

I would like to emphasize our slide 26, which we'll get to, and we look forward to launching our new website with respect to POS on Cloud. Moving to slide 11. Obviously, many of our historic traditional investors are familiar with our SBA lending business. We are still at the end of the SBA fiscal year, at the end of September, the largest non bank government guaranteed lender or sixth largest including banks, we've been in the business a long period of time, we have a 17 to 18 year track record, loan default frequency and severity statistics.

We've survived away to 2009, we certainly understand the stresses on our clients and the stresses of a portfolio; we've issued 10 securitizations of our uninsured pieces since 2010. They're all performing really well, that portfolio, I can't stress this, the importance of this is a diversified portfolio of approximately 2200-2300 loans with the average loan size of risk with respect to us of $180,000.

That's our portion of the uninsured piece. Obviously, you're looking at probably a $750,000 $800,000 of the total loan. And these are -- a lot of these loans are season which we'll get into. Looking at a 6% coupon floating rate at Prime plus two and three quarters with no cap. And when we look at what Newtek does in the lending bucket where we get that big, wide open funnel for referrals.

Why is a Newtek loan, a superior loan to our competition? Well, if you look at a bank, our loans are 10 to 25 year amortizations. They're single digit rates of interest. They have no covenants other than monetary primarily. And we are willing to over advance on the primary collateral and certainly take the secondary and tertiary collateral which we get liens on to really improve our overall credit performance. So whether we ultimately put the borrower's referral request into a 7(a) loan in the funnel or 504 loan, a secured line of credit, which revolves up and down against inventory receivables, or non conforming loans.

We've got real good solutions, particularly given up to 10 to 25 year no balloon, but minimum fully amortizing loans, lower payments to borrowers with that single digit interest rate, we're willing to give them an over advance on collateral which is valuable in a tough market where they might need additional equity and without the bothersome period -- periodic issue of loan covenants that banks typically perform on our client base. So we're excited about our business future. We've been in this business 17-18 years not a new rodeo for us, we're very well prepared for the future in terms of growing our loan book, as well as managing the existing credits that are in the portfolio.

When you go to slide 12 you can see why we are successful in this business. We've received an excess of 150,000 loan referrals for the nine months ended September 30, 2020. That does not include PPP, but 110,000 for the three months there's clearly a borrower demand in the marketplace. There's not even a question, however, that to be able to pick and choose by using technology by using our secure file vault and our trains business service specialist staff on the front end, we're able to sort through and pick out credits that will be able to stand the test of time, whether it's pandemic related restrictions on business activity or not.

Our referral per unit day in lending alone by 1,200 units, our databases of customer opportunities are at very deep. We've got over our, I'd say close to $2 million worth of contacts in that database. Cross selling efforts are being realized as the integrated our sales and marketing efforts. We've grown our outbound capability. We've also grown our internal training capability with establishing a library of videos and marketing slips for customers. We've got 17 years of loan assembly, underwriting and technological expertise, making a leader in the area of lending and we look forward to returning to a more normalized lending process which we are experiencing going forward.

Comparing our organization in lending to other fintechs, we are significantly different than the OnDeck, the Kabbage and Lendio. Look, they are typically six to 24 month repayment periods, that drive your payment price up, the actual rate of interest on these loans, all double digit, some as high as 20% to 80%. They also do limited underwriting, we do full underwriting, we take all forms of collateral, both personal and commercial; we put liens on them.

It's a totally different form of lending. And it's worked well for us over this long period of time during many credit cycles, and many interest rate cycles. When looking at our existing portfolio to calculate NAV as of September 30, 2020, our 7(a) portfolio of uninsured loans that are in securitizations are sitting on the line, averaging about 35.1 months that seasoning is extremely relevant.

Obviously, with the pandemic, that's kind of changed things around. But clearly, from a default perspective, you'd rather be into the belly of the default curve. The faults do tend to accelerate between 18 and 24 months, we would point you to or put an S&P did, which does talk about all these issues and will give all of you a very good feel for what credit default, one might expect as we're waiting through this particular economy.

I will add that our 7(a) portfolio, which whether it's in a securitization or not is considered on our books, securitizations are considered a financing, we have that portfolio marked at a 30% cumulative gross default, even with the 35 months weighted average seasoning, and 40% severity which we consider really the right price. We've seen sold by [Indecipherable] in the BDC business actually start to raise their NAV back up as the pandemic effects have appeared to be less consequential in the second and third quarters.

I think we still got another quarter or two to gather that type of information, to be comfortable making an adjustment back up and changing some of those metrics around. We tend to be clearly less volatile, and obviously, that the full portfolio has performed well for us. Moving to slide 14; you could see that we have a 98.5% currency ratio on a 7(a) portfolio. Obviously, the section 1112 payments that we've received by the SP for a borrower has just been very helpful. We are aware that there is a major portion of those 1112 payments that still exists that haven't been utilized.

And the current proposals that have been made in the Senate and the House to continue PPP funding going forward for another round would potentially include those payments, which would keep this currency rate low. Without that we do expect obviously our currency rates to suffer a little bit, but something that we've clearly dealt with experienced in the past and we believe is quite manageable.

Slide 15 is we try to put these examples to the marketplace to sort of demonstrate what our loans look like and in those outlines situations where they do go bad, how we work through them. This particular credit was another accruing loan, and wound up paying off once again, the differentiated between our types of loans, the borrower 20% greater equity or larger personally guaranteeing the loan. They also had their residential property guaranteeing the loan. And although the business had failed, and they close the stores, we end up getting full repayment first, primarily based upon the value of their personal assets.

They were able to refi on residential real estate, the beginning November, they paid off principal interest, late fees, miscellaneous fees and expenses, different underwriting than you're used to with other types of lending. Moving to slide 16 is a slide that we produce a fairly regularly; it shows the net cash created on a typical sample. So in a transaction prices in the 7(a) market are firm to better, I would suggest that you can assume on a projected basis 110, 111 and 112 net type prices to Newtek in the fourth quarter.

Slide 17 is the income effects of an SBA 7(a) loan transaction, once again a slide that we've had for many, many, many years in our presentations and most of you are familiar with it. Moving forward to slide 19 and talking about portfolio companies and effects of dividends. In 2019, approximately 30% to 35% of our dividend in earned income came from portfolio companies. Slide 19 is a sample of a 504 loan; we want to make sure that everyone understands how these 504 loans are made. While, we fund a 50% first and 40% second that will be taken out by government debentures from a CDC, Community Development Corp.

Slide 20 shows the return on equity from 504 lending really high 504 lending different than 7(a). Once we sell the 50% first, it leaves us with no balance sheet, we make the loan we warehouse it with our Capital One Bank line, the 40% second is taken out by government debentures, then we typically sell those -- the first loan into premium beta for the secondary market. Slide 21 talks about our conventional loan portfolio. We reported to the market at the end of Q1 on our conference call that we suspended all lending of our non conforming conventional loans.

So since that time, we have turned 7(a) back on, we've turned 504 on obviously, as we've talked about our success there. And we do anticipate turning the nonconforming portfolio back on, it's a $91 million portfolio. All 19 loans are current with the exception of one, we expect that one loan to get turned back on as the state of California, which this particular borrower is in this opened up their market, particularly for the movie production business, which is what they're ingrained in, their back open their cash flowing and we expect that loan to come back.

Obviously, from a credit standpoint, this is unusual market. Most credit cycles are driven by weaknesses in the economy. This one is primarily driven by government shutdown due to the pandemic. So we're obviously optimistic about states opening up and getting back to business as therapeutics and vaccines are beginning to enter the market. And we believe that state and local governments will start to ease up on some of the restrictions.

On slide 22; we talk about prospective new JVs for our nonconforming business. We're currently negotiating term sheets with prospective joint venture partners to create up to $150 million of additional third party capital that would we believe originate up to $1 billion of nonconforming conventional loans. So the equity base of this particular business is about 30% with 70% exit upon securitization financing. So we're excited about these new ventures. One term sheet has been signed; the second is in investment committee. We're hopeful we can move forward with that shortly, and then begin to open up our nonconforming loan business, which gives us loans up to $15 million in size.

So slide 23, talking about the success of our 504 program, we funded a close $21.7 million 504 loans ending September 30. In the month of October, that number got up to $50.6 million. And we hope to close the fund to total of $100 million of 504 loans during a calendar year that could create contribution from NBL between $1 million and $3 million in dividend income to the company depending upon fundings as well as selling. A little bit more difficult to make loans in the current environment. Obviously, when dealing with a borrower, you've got to make sure that number one, you want to have a real good handle on what they did during the pandemic.

From an income perspective, you want to make sure that they use the right PPP equipment during that period of time. And then on a going forward basis, how they could potentially withstand another government shutdown, if it happens. So there's additional burdens on underwriting and compliance that make lending a little bit more difficult and give us a little bit less visibility than normal. So please excuse the wider ranges historically, we've tended to be conservative in making these types of projections and forecasts.

Slide 24 talks about our other real important portfolio company Newtek Merchant Solutions having an equity fair value of $115 million, our enterprise value, I think is about $115 million was up $35 million of debt. We've clearly improved the EBITDA and cash flow run rate in the third quarter of 2020. Anticipate that going forward; we're forecasting ranges of $1.1 million to $1.2 million per month in EBITDA. And when you look at from a valuation perspective, the public comps of other entities that are what I refer to as Super ISOs, I see three verticals, Evo, global payment systems, we think that our multiple valuations on this business are quite reasonable still in single digits.

Looking at slide 25, we've definitely had our recovery month-over-month, I will say that October had slowed down a little bit, I think that's a function of stimulus running out and business is suffering a little bit. Once again, we're hopeful that the government will provide one more round of bridge financing in stimulus to our clients. On the calendar year, we're forecasting that adjusted EBITDA in the Newtek Merchant Solutions space will decline by 10% to 15%.

That's a general decline from say, $14.5 million of EBITDA to say $12.5 million to $13 million. We've had a significant impact on one of our portfolio companies, mobile money, which primarily services cab drivers to Newark Airport, that's probably cost us somewhere around a $1 million of cash flow. So a major decline in our numbers have come from one particular demographic segment. But we do expect that to rebound.

Slide 26, we talk about POS on Cloud. We are aggressively moving forward in this particular area. I draw your attention to this particular product, we'll be launching our website shortly Newtek Payment Systems, we'll put a press release on it, which will really be able to give the marketplace an understanding of why our POS on Cloud software is the all encompassing system, that working in partnership with our financial institutions; a, can give them great branding, great deposit taking capability and provide a tremendous service to their business clientele. So POS on Cloud processes payments, and integrates with e-commerce creating websites for restaurants, retail, and other companies that mirror what's in the POS system.

It integrates with all food delivery services like Uber Eats, Grubhub, DoorDash integrates with accounting ledger accounting software really important to reduce company expenses and make things more seamless. It also integrates with our own payroll solutions products. So the time and attendance functions in the POS push the data right into our payroll to provide payroll workman's comp, health insurance, and a window into 401-k all on one piece of software. So POS on Cloud is actually a real human capital management system for businesses, helps reduce their expenses, put all their data up in the cloud in a secure manner.

And we're looking forward to working with our depository alliance partners, which is going to enable them to manage and operate the depository accounts both for payroll, as well as the e-commerce and payment processing functions. And also for our investment banking clientele, wrap around and help them distribute, and will protect their 401-k against the predatory ADP and paychecks type solutions in the marketplace.

Slide 27, we talk about our technology segment what we refer to as our third silo of five in the Newtek Business Services Corp ecosystem. We continue to see a dramatic turnaround and Newtek Technology solutions, our Phoenix based cloud computing Portfolio Company that primarily focuses on providing managed services. Historically, we've had three portfolio companies in the space including IPM and Sidco. We are announcing today in the fourth quarter of 2020 that we're going to merge all the portfolio technology companies together. IPM which we acquired in 2017 and Managed Tech Solutions, and Sidco will be a subsidiary of Newtek Technology Solutions.

We're forecasting that the combined companies will generate revenue between $45 million and $50 million in 2021. And adjusted EBITDA between $5.5 million and $6 million. This should give us a bump of valuation, as well as cash flow. We're really excited about the business prospects. And when we lay out our technology solution offering we're going to be able to really wrap our arms around independent business owners, helping them with purchases of software and hardware, helping them with purchases that are required for professional services.

How do I architect my technology? How do I implement the technology? Once I made the purchase, and many businesses, they really can't afford to manage it day to day, they can't afford a CIO, they can't afford a CTO, even can't afford the local break fix providers that have historically put PCs in their shop and loaded software into it. We're in a new market and a new environment. And I need to point out; we're not competing against AWS. And as a matter of fact, we partner with them, we manage workloads in AWS and absorb. But for the small and medium sized and independent businesses and family offices, they need the personal attention that the Google, the Amazon, and the Azure can provide.

We can provide that to them, we can provide them 24x7 high quality, great architects, great technology engineers, to help them navigate. So we're really excited about our foray into growing this particular segment the silo of our business. So slide 28 talks about cloud services. So if you go to the bottom bullet, ITaaS Infrastructure as a Service, DRaaS, Disaster Recovery as a Service, DaaS, Desktop as a Service, Software as a Service. We give clients secure email, hybrid cloud, public cloud, and we are the cloud service provider for independent business owners.

Slide 29; we mentioned this in our press release, we're proud to have added to our staff, Sam Razon joined us this year along with Shannon Vestal to really grow and further develop our payroll solution offering and really is a human capital management system, we'd love you to go to our website, and see that everything that we could do for your company in the payroll health and benefits space. We also added two great executives to our property and casualty insurance agency, Rick Carpenter, Director of Property and Casualty and Kathryn Ingram, SVP, Property and Casualty.

We're very excited about some additional hires we made in that particular space. And I will point out that on October 28, we hosted a webinar to address the future of payroll benefits, and really discuss hot topics relating to changes in the market, particularly relating to the pandemic and changing in the economic landscape. Love to suggest that you go to our webinar; you could see where you can find it. On that slide, it's available on replay. And really, it's a tremendous display of the expertise that we have in this particular space.

Moving to slide 30, and as we're getting close to concluding our presentation and wrap up the rationale for an investment thesis, making an investment, it's all about risk reward, and risk reward in the Newtek investment. We firmly believe our loan portfolio and balance sheet has less leverage than our BDC peers, it's important to note that our loans are no growth, the low growth type businesses, they don't really require 4%, 5%, 6%, growth in revenue and earnings and in cash flow, obviously, and our competitors in BDC space, very heavily invested in leveraged loans that are lent at four to five and six times EBITDA.

So we believe that our businesses which are more bread and butter in core, well collateralized, and well supported by the personal guarantees of the owners with both the personal and corporate assets will stand up well in this particular economic time. Important to note, not a first rodeo, we've been through this for over 17 years, did a good job in managing to a 2009 credit crisis, particularly with respect to servicing, we're very active, working with our clients and making sure that they've got the right solutions. And then they could be able to handle and navigate things through we speak to all those 2,200, 2,300 clients in the portfolio.

Also mind you that was discussed the loans are personally guaranteed, and collateralized with liens on them. It's a diversified business model. So apart from lending and credit, we obviously got revenue streams growing in tech solutions, payment processing, NII and payroll, we utilize technology to acquire clients, we have clearly invoked today, where being able to acquire business through brokers, bankers, branches, or BDOs, quite difficult in the current environment. And we think this is going to be a permanent shift in business. Once again, it's more efficient, it's better received by the customers that when they want you on demand. And we believe that our shareholders can realize long term rewards due to our unique infrastructure and business methodology.

It's very much of hidden value prep, in terms of how Newtek does its business. We move to slide 31. And we look at our catalyst going forward. What's the investment thesis to investing; we're renewing our 7(a) efforts which clearly should get us back into originate and gain on sale mode. We had a real good third and fourth quarter and 504 incomes. We look for that to continue in calendar year 2021; we hope to anticipate resuming joint venture lending activity in the nonconforming conventional loan market in 2021.

What we've done with respect to the combined a Newtek Technology solutions with our other two technology portfolio companies, we look forward to the creation of a business in 2021. That does between $45 million and 50 million with adjusted EBITDA of $6 million. Those are nice increases that are not just adding up the four different components probably picks up another, easily $1 million or $2 million of cash flow. So we're also looking for a recapture of NMS as the business bounces back nicely in our Newtek Merchant Solutions getting back to an EBITDA $14.5 million to $15 million.

We believe that we will get another stimulus package, which will certainly help us manage our credit. And additionally, as we've spoken about recently in the regulatory environment with respect to BDC investment; particularly the more investment from institutional investors. On August 5, SEC endorsed that proposal and modifies AFFE; the proposal is still in the proposal stage. There have not been any adopted changes for the AFFE requirement is applies to BDC.

But we're hopeful that will get finalized, hopefully in the near future. And that it'll really enable institutional investors that don't invest more than 10% of their total funds to basically be able to own and record BDC that means double counter fee expense. So rolling forward to my final slide on slide 32, we are differentiated and diversified BDC model; a lot of people looking to invest in BDCs for the dividend and the asset category.

They want to make an investment in BDCs from the structure but they'd like to get away from investing in portfolios of leveraged loans with hidden leverage any assets that's us, we are internally managed BDC. That's interests are aligned. We're not growing for growth's sake to pay ourselves a bigger management fee. We are not a new company been around established in 1998, with a long term lending track record in history with senior management, Peter Downs, our Chief Lending Officer has been with the company since 2003.

Tremendous alignment of interest, we love shareholder appreciation and dividends. And we don't get any management fees, only about 6.3% of outstanding shares. And clearly we stayed away from oil and gas industry. We're not a second lien lender, no SDIC hidden leverage. We think that we have a nice promising future going forward. So with that said, I'd like to turn the presentation over to Chris Towers, our Chief Accounting Officer.

Chris?

Christopher Towers -- Executive Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer

Thank you, Barry, and good morning, everyone. Now you can find a summary of our third quarter 2020 results on slide 34, as well as the reconciliation of our adjusted net investment income, or adjusted NII on slides 36 and 37. For the third quarter 2020, we had net investment income of $1.7 million or $0.08 per share, as compared to a net investment loss of $500,000 or $0.03 per share in the third quarter of 2019.

Note that income related to the PPP is included in investment income; adjusted NOI which is defined on slide 35 was $950,000 or $0.04 per share in the third quarter of 2020 as compared to $12.2 million or $0.63 per share for the third quarter of 2019. Focusing on third quarter 2020 highlights; we recognize $14.9 million of total investment income, 6.9% decrease in the third quarter of 2020. Decrease was driven primarily by a decrease in interest income attributed to the decrease in the Prime rate and a decrease in dividend income from portfolio companies mainly NMS.

These decreases were offset by the recognition of $3.1 million of income related to the origination of $82.5 million of PPP loans during the quarter. Servicing income increased 11.8% to $2.9 million in the third quarter 2020 versus $2.5 million the same quarter last year, which is attributable to the average servicing portfolio, growing from $1.04 billion at September 30, 2019 to $1.1 billion at September 30, 2020. Distributions from portfolio companies for the quarter included $1.7 million from NMS. $125,000 from IPM, $175,000 from Sidco and $240,000 from Newtek conventional lending, our joint venture with BlackRock TCP.

Total Expenses decreased by $3.3 million quarter-over-quarter or 19.9%, mainly driven by a decrease in interest expense, referral fees and other G&A costs such as advertising. Realized gains recognized from the sale of the guaranteed portions of SBA loans sold during the quarter totaled $1.6 million, compared to $11.7 million during the same quarter in 2019. In the third quarter of 2020, we sold 16 loans for $11.8 million at an average premium of 11.79% as compared to 147 loans sold during the third quarter of 2019 for $89 million at an average premium of 11.49%.

The decrease is attributed to our continued focus on PPP originations during the third quarter of 2020. As I mentioned earlier, income related to the PPP is included in investment income. Realized losses on SBA non affiliate investments for the third quarter of 2020 were $2.4 million and $838,000 during the third quarter of 2019. Overall, our operating results for the third quarter resulted in a net decrease in net assets of $500,000 or $0.02 per share. And we ended the quarter with NAV per share of $15.13.

I'd now like to turn the call over back to Barry.

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Thank you, Chris. Operator, we like to open up question-and-answer session.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Your first question comes from Mickey Schleien from Ladenburg.

Mickey Schleien -- Ladenburg -- Analyst

Yes, good morning, everyone. Hope you're all doing well. Barry, I just wanted to touch on trends in SBA 7(a) prices, which were quite strong in the third quarter and ask you who would you, say are the main players bidding up those prices? And what do you think the outlook is finishing this year and going into next year?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Thank you. I think that in looking at the government guaranteed bid for 7(a) loans. A couple of things have occurred, prepayment rates have slowed significantly in this calendar year. And we do expect them to continue to be slow as the lending environment, for particularly most bank lenders is one of a more cautious note.

So you're not getting banks refinancing small medium sized business borrowers with low interest rate loans at this point, because they're just -- the banks right now still have their risk off trade on. So prepayment speeds clearly drive the market, supply and demand drives the market, there's not been a plethora of originations, I don't see that at this point yet in the fourth quarter, it may start to pick up.

We don't see that. The demand for government guaranteed assets with zero risk based capital is insatiable; banks are flush with deposits, the stimulus has put a lot of money into the banking system, so that they need to put that money to work. With LIBOR floater plus 65 basis points as your risk based capital is attractive.

So my view of this is, be aware of the change of prepayment speeds. So until we get into a more robust economy, which I don't think that's on the cards until now, growth is one thing but I mean a more robust economy. I mean, a lot of lending activities, matter of fact greater GDP than you had in Q1 of 2019 going into the pandemic. I don't think we need to be overly concerned about significant price weakness until maybe the third and fourth quarter of next year at best.

Mickey Schleien -- Ladenburg -- Analyst

Thank you for that, Barry. And just a couple more questions; one on the balance sheet, any guidance you can give us when you might do your next securitization?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes, look, securitizations are financing for us and they wind up taking out the Capital One Bank line. So a general forecast and obviously you got to be little careful SEC issues in front running, which is weird, but generically speaking, I'm thinking this is going to be, it's clearly a 2021 calendar events and maybe second or third quarter.

Mickey Schleien -- Ladenburg -- Analyst

I understand. And that's just due to the cadence of the 7(a) business, right?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes, in other words, just building up enough critical mass. And we probably have around $60 million that we've mostly funded with equity at this point in time, not using our line. And our lines are very low level, very low levels across the board, and which is a good show that we've got good liquidity in the system, and don't have excessive needs to hit the capital markets.

We always want to stay ahead of that game. You never know, when the markets won't be kind. So we've been very good at managing that for us. And I think that portfolio could begin to build up after two quarters, we also have a prior transaction that we might be able to call but that's, I think, out in the future would probably be third, fourth quarter of next year, probably a good enough guess.

Mickey Schleien -- Ladenburg -- Analyst

I understand and you kind of hit the nail on the head, we don't know when the markets will be open or not. But I'd be interested in understanding just broadly speaking, what's your thesis on the economy for next year that ultimately is supporting your dividend forecast?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I think that our thesis is that the economy has a lot of momentum behind it. And irrespective of whether you've got Trump in the White House, or Biden, which is on everyone's mind, I think the concept of additional stimulus is out there. I'm not overly concerned about a tax hike with either executive in; I have to make this one comment. I'm not -- people think the Republicans have the Senate. That's not clear at this point, particularly if you get to Georgia run offs which is possible. But I think that there's a ton of liquidity in the system, there's a lot of momentum, new business formation, believe it or not, is growing rapidly.

So a lot of parts of the economy are growing on all cylinders, lots of liquidity in the system from an arrogant standpoint, I'm bullish. Now, the flip side of that is you've got certain business, businesses at the extreme that require no social distancing, indoor activity. Those are businesses are going to have a hard time, we're happy that we have diversified portfolio, both geographically and SICO to be able to combat that. So there's no, there's nothing in our portfolio that keeps me up at night says, oh, my God, I'm overbalanced in gymnasiums in New Jersey, for example. Just put one more finer point on it. I'm generally optimistic about economic growth in 2021. Next question?

Operator

Your next question comes from Scott Sullivan of Raymond James.

Scott Sullivan -- Raymond James -- Analyst

Thanks for taking my call, Barry. First of all comment, I really do appreciate sort of the management's flexibility and acuity in terms of being able to live the Wayne Gretzky school of thought, skating to where the pucks going, rather than where it is, so congrats on that. And I do appreciate the color on the cross selling initiatives, and certainly the more elegant solution with IPM and MTS. So, from a high level, where do you -- where are you modeling the most growth? Obviously, in a more normal economic scenario? Where's the best CAGR in all of the different silos other than lending?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I think that it's a good question, because part of it relates to where we are in our product cycle. And then there's near term, medium term and long term. I think I'm most optimistic about the term in tech solutions now. From a marketing perspective, we are probably less built out there than we are in tech solutions. Then in -- I am sorry, payment processing which is a bigger business. But I think that the menu of solutions that we have to be able to offer to independent business owners relative to product, professional services managed solutions is broad. This is a growth area for many, many years, and there's so much work to be done.

And frankly, not a lot of competition in the space, in my opinion, in the merchant space, which there's a lot of competition and a lot of people in there; I think that we've got superior solutions. I was on with a financial institution last night. And for example, we talked about our POS on Cloud and branding it for the particular institution, so you can call it we can give a financial institution, their own payment solution, with their name comes across the brand. For example, use your company's name Raymond James; we could create Raymond James payment solutions. Well, what does that do? We're going to put POS software in the business that's got your name across the top.

That's branding to the business owner and branding to the eight to 10 to 100 employees that are interfacing with that POS system, whether that's doctors, dentists, lawyers, motels, restaurants, and at finger snap, you can boot up a website, for pay at the table, or all the retail SKUs right away, because it comes right out of the POS, both the card present or the in store activity and the online activity integrate directly into accounting GL, which we have set up; the time and attendance function, on the point of sale pushes the time and attendance data directly into our payroll software, so we could perform payroll taxes, we also then from that cloud based solution can manage their workman's comp, their health insurance, and wrap around their 401-K.

So that for entity like yours, you're now branding your brand name to the restaurant, to the retail store, pay at the table, QR code, your names across the top, and you get deposits, you get the deposits from the payroll account, you get deposits for the merchant account, these are solutions that we've created, through owning their own software, developing it further. And now we're going to begin to roll this out with our financial institutions partner.

So I think there could be tremendous growth there as well. If you switch over to, generally speaking payroll, health and benefits; the landscape of all the changes in payroll whether it was the fact that the IRS push back a quarter for filing tax returns, changes in certain tax issues relating to whether it's state, or federal items, payrolls more and more prominent, and the reality is independent business owners, they're just not going to go online and punch data in.

They need to talk to somebody; they need to get that expertise, the changes in healthcare, relative to the pandemic. That's significant. So this is where I think we're well positioned with our solutions. But I would say that in 2021, versus 2020, bigger delta in tech, and a rebound in payments from 2019 to 2020 to 2021. Those are the two things to keep an eye on, I also think in lending will be more prominent in 504. And hope to get the nonconforming this.

So we have a lot of engines in 2021 that were zeros in 2020. I mean the 504 business probably helpful in the fourth quarter. The nonconforming, we hope to get back on going that was practically zero in 2020. And the growth lift in payments in tech gives us a good base for being able to get a good dividend out to shareholders in 2021. And probably, giving -- we mentioned PPP right, no PPP, PPP comes in which we saw what a nice shot PPP did to us. So we'll see what happens.

Operator

Your next question comes from Brian Stauffer from Conference Point.

Brian Stauffer -- Conference Point -- Analyst

Hey, Barry. Congrats on the quarter. So I got one question you answered about the 7(a) loan market and the strength you're seeing there but you did mention earlier in the call the work from home dynamic. Do you see any opportunity there to kind of rationalize Newtek's real estate footprint moving forward, maybe save money on opex down the road as leases come up for renewal?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Brian, no question. I think that the pandemic changed my viewpoint on real estate footprint and staffing. And I think that a lot of that relates to given that I typically drive somewhere, wherever I am whether it's an hour each way, which is fairly difficult. I think that on a going forward basis, that's going to be more important, we will be not renewing our lease in Irvine, California; our staffs working remotely and doing great, we will not be renewing our lease in Milwaukee, staff working remotely doing great.

We have taken a little bit more space in our Lake Success area. But we also have one parcel that we'll probably put up for sublet. Our Orlando business is doing well. So I think that you're going to see more cost savings in that particular area. And we've also put tools in place for staff to be able to monitor their own activity relative to talk time, inbound calls, outbound calls, and timesheets.

So from a monitoring perspective, it's really important to make sure that we're hitting all of our production metrics. So I think one of the many negative aspects obviously to the pandemic, one of the positive ones is to get people to work more efficiently from home, and save on commutation, which saves them money, as well as time.

Operator

Your next question comes from Matt Tjaden from Raymond James.

Matt Tjaden -- Raymond James -- Analyst

Hi, all. Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. Very first one if I can on 7(a) originations. Any color you can give on what you're seeing a month into the quarter? I know $135 million is the expectation for 4Q, any expect or any color you can get on what you're seeing a month in?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Look, I think we put that number out there, and it's difficult for us to peg that with precision. I'll explain why; we put commitments out there, we then go into an underwriting. And some of that is, while all of a sudden a tax lien pops up at closing. Okay, all of a sudden, a real estate appraisal changes. It's really hard to forecast that pipeline, both positive and negative. We put out a number that we're comfortable with, we've expressed to the market, there's volatility.

But also I would say this we've come out with guidance that we expect our dividend will between be between $1 went from a $1.80 on the low to a $1.90, we were down from $2.30 to $2.20. We've taken PPP out of that. So if PPP comes in, that's extra. So I think that our investor base, which is sensitive to obviously share price as well as the dividend should feel pretty good that we're going to come close to, we're certainly believe we're going to be within the range, and we'll forecast that dividend. But the forecast specific loan fundings, it's tough, you lose a $5 million-$10 million loan, and it becomes difficult.

The good thing about our business model though is we're kind of firing on many cylinders. We've got the 504 business now. We give a fairly wide range of dividend and income generation of a $1 million or $3 million. Our tech businesses picking up. No, but I can't give you the type of guidance that we're traditionally used to giving. Because it would be disingenuous, because we're finding situations where we're trying to get loans closed, and the worlds changed.

Stuff pops up at the last minute. Conversely, we're getting an overwhelming amount of referrals that are blowing away previous numbers. So you've got plenty of stuff to look at. I think that's important because I realized we're sitting here at November 5. And the way the world is today, everybody wants to know what's going to happen between now and December 31. Well, I will tell you that are important to me. What are more important are the direction and the movement in the model. So to me, I just be frank with you, yes, I don't want to be on a conference call.

And all my numbers are my guidance. But I'm really interested in the long term, forward momentum of the business, which looks pretty good for 2021 with a fairly wide range for 2020; I know I evaded your question. But I think the long winded answer is appropriate for this investor group that we're trying to get them to really focus on the long term aspects of our business, not quarter-to-quarter, which is what we've been pretty good at historically, trying to cultivate investors in Newtek not to be quite hung up on Jesus, straight quarterly, even dividend that you see in most BDCs. Thank you. Any other questions, Matt?

Matt Tjaden -- Raymond James -- Analyst

Yes, one follow up and if I can, and this one might be difficult to answer as well. So that's dividend guidance for 2021, $2 to $2.50 based on your dividend payout ratio, we can kind of back into an earnings number there, can you give maybe not the specific number, but what's the expectation for 7(a) origination activity during 2021?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I would say that will probably be between $580 million and $600 million for 2021 for 7(a).

Matt Tjaden -- Raymond James -- Analyst

Great and then just a last one quickly on NBL. Just to confirm NBL did not pay a dividend in 1Q, 2Q or 3Q, so that $1 million to $3 million dividend will all come in the fourth quarter.

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I'm going to say yes, Chris, is that accurate? There was no dividend from NBL in Q1, Q2, and Q3. I believe that's the case.

Christopher Towers -- Executive Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer

Correct, yes.

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

So that would all be in the fourth quarter.

Christopher Towers -- Executive Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer

Yes.

Operator

Your next question comes from Adam Wharton of RBC.

Adam Wharton -- RBC -- Analyst

Hey, Barry, how are you? Congrats on a good quarter, man. Great job. Couple questions; given this pandemic, given I guess it's, I don't know, honestly, it's safe to say that it looks like in all probability, Biden, and then a Republican Senate. Are there any geographic pockets and/ or sectors that you guys think are areas that you may want to attack as far as where you're going to be lending to?

I mean, I know I talk to folks down in Texas and in Arizona, and these socially distance, sort of into like the restaurants and things like that. Are there any areas that you think that you guys could attack that would make some sense? Or where you might want to overweight yourselves going forward over the next three to five years?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I think it's a very good question. And with a backdrop of diversification, which has always been a winner for us, both industry and Sidco, but you can ignore the demographics of businesses and customers moving to sunshine states, up to Sunshine States, Rust Belt States. I should say Sunshine States and Sunbelt States. The Arizona, the Texas, the South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida. I mean, the trends are that's where consumers are moving to. We're certainly going to look at all geographies, and all businesses, and all borrower types. But it's certainly tough for a lender to go I want to be real, big presence in New York City today. Really hard.

Adam Wharton -- RBC -- Analyst

Okay, well, that being said, right, and I totally agree with you. There's going to be survivors, and thrivers in New York City.

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

And we will and we're currently having conversations to be frank with you, we've got -- we're having conversations right now with a couple of restaurateurs that are going in to revive like amazing brands, right, that are now looking to an SBA loan where the owners and operators, they're not billionaires, but they've got the capital and the guarantor capability to withstand bounce and grinds, and they've got a plan to go back in and revive the brand. But New York's not going to die. It's always going to be around. And it's always going to be present. But you really got to be more selective in picking the winners and losers.

Operator

Your next question comes from John Saffioti from Santander Bank.

John Saffioti -- Santander Bank -- Analyst

Good morning, Barry thanks so much for the presentation and for the strong quarter. My question really one of the earlier slides, I believe, it was slide eight. And you were focusing in on the 504 loan program. And I think it was mentioned that there wasn't a lot of growth that was happening in the first half of the year, because of COVID. And the companies focus more on making the PPP loans and being more neutral.

But in looking at the slide, there's a $51 million of loans that were funded during the quarter or maybe getting up through 10/31. How those loans are primarily funded? Was there a capital injection that took place from Newtek into the SPV so that there was additional dry powder to fund those loans? Could you just give a little bit of context as far as how, what capital was contributed, and maybe what dividends may be coming back in the fourth quarter?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Sure, I think that with our portfolio companies for the most part, the ones I mentioned earlier, merchant services and tech, they don't require capital. We're lending out of NBL, it does require capital in addition to our lending partners, like Capital One Bank, that provide us leverage. So in order to make those loans, we position capital into Newtek business lending, which, in conjunction with our leverage partners, enables us to make that loan and then hold it on the balance sheet and lending facility of NBL.

John Saffioti -- Santander Bank -- Analyst

Do you know approximately how much capital was contributed during the quarter?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I do not, not off hand.

John Saffioti -- Santander Bank -- Analyst

Okay. And then going forward, as far as the profile of customers, do you see any change in strategy just related to the underlying customers that you'll target, given the pandemic and changes in the market? Do you see focus on targeting certain types of customers from a profile perspective.

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

It's funny because I say that we are very big on diversification. And I think that diversification makes us smarter without having to be smart. So what I mean by that is I could sit here today and say, we are not going to make a hotel loan, and we're not going to make a restaurant loan. Now, here's the funny thing. Today, those are probably the best loans to make. And I I'm not suggesting that you make a loan in a particular area, or region that's totally closed down, or based upon 2018 underwriting criteria. But some of these situations, they have repositioned themselves, they've got good capital, they've got great location, they've had great operators, and they've just survived COVID in the pandemic.

Now you want to be careful, as you know what I basically provide the funding, and there's no liquidity, and they can't survive another shutdown, which is a real important analysis that we do when we make these loans. So I think it's fair to say that we're going to continue to be diversified. We're clearly going to be more careful in a motel, or a restaurant, particularly over the next six or nine months. But we're not definitely a no. And what happens when you have these economic shakedowns is you wind up losing weaker participants in an industry segment or demographic.

And the stronger ones wind up being your best credits, because their competition goes out of business. They're the lone survivor, and they do well. So we always look at lending with a view toward what's going to not be just a good credit for the next six or 12 months. But what's going to be good for the long term? And most importantly, can these businesses survive slow growth, no growth or a downturn in the near term? Do they have enough liquidity to survive the bump?

How good is their operating team? We're very proud, for example of our nonconforming portfolio really being able to do well during this period of time from the standpoint that we've obviously picked good operators, and we pick people that have enough other wherewithal to be able to not want that enterprise value in their business to go away.

John Saffioti -- Santander Bank -- Analyst

Great, it's very much appreciated. And just one other follow up question. I know that financial results were included in the press release and in the lending presentation. Do you have an anticipated date that we could expect to see the 4Q for September 30, 2020?

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes, I mean, usually that gets filed within a week or so of this call. So that's pretty much a good anticipation.

Operator

Your next question comes from Harold Elish from UBS.

Harold Elish -- UBS -- Analyst

Good Morning, Barry. So one of the pandemic winners, it has seemed to be is the world of FinTech in general, and that there are a number of new players outside the streams that that Newtek has generally employed to get referrals. I don't know whether it's too early, but I'm wondering whether you're thinking of pursuing some of these online relationships, particularly those that seem to be appealing to millennials and active traders, as conduits for your business going forward.

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

So, Harry, I appreciate you are drawing attention to value ahead of technology in the pandemic, sort of rising to the surface. I think that OnDeck capital, which really had a disastrous portfolio, but arguably good technology, I think, was acquired for like $90 million for the technology, and I think Kabbage was acquired by American Express for like $800 million or $900 million.

And I think that their portfolio results are arguable in that the credits that they made, but with the market, particularly financial institutions that don't -- that they're not nimble, they have a hard time putting software changing processes, techniques, and the place is valuing is that the business methodology of acquiring clients remotely, not having bankers, branches, brokers or BDO's, and utilize technology to make and manufacture a loan.

And in our case, in addition to making manufacturing loans, we make and manufacturer payment solutions, we make manufacture technology solutions, we make manufacture Housing Benefit solutions, and Insurance Solutions is being valued by the marketplace. Now in our case, I am kind of being asked, how many loans am I going to do in the next 30 days, which we plan on doing a lot? But in addition to that there is this hidden value within our organization, which I try to emphasize, which is look at how we do our business.

Look at why there's a thesis about what we're doing. I mean, there are people that pay millions of dollars to get the types of economic activity and referral that comes through our doors for being in the business as long as we are for servicing clients well, and for having this technology in place that makes it really easy to work with Newtek on a loan opportunity or a tech solution or a payment solution or whatever it might be.

So we're hopeful over the course of time that we certainly appreciate investors, valuing our cash flows and our dividends. But we also are hopeful that the investment community will value the operational methodology, the software, and the way in which we conduct our business. That will be the way business is conducted in the next 10 years. We think we're way ahead of the game.

Operator

I'm showing no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the conference back to Mr. Sloane.

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Operator, thank you and I'd like to thank everybody who participated in the call. The analysts, Q&A and investors in our company. Over 20 years of publicly traded company, we have tremendous appreciation and respect for the faith and the investment that you've made in us and we'll continue to work hard and continue to perform and hopefully meet or beat all these expectations. So thank you very much. Have a great day. Stay safe.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]

Duration: 81 minutes

Call participants:

Barry Sloane -- President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Christopher Towers -- Executive Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer

Mickey Schleien -- Ladenburg -- Analyst

Scott Sullivan -- Raymond James -- Analyst

Brian Stauffer -- Conference Point -- Analyst

Matt Tjaden -- Raymond James -- Analyst

Adam Wharton -- RBC -- Analyst

John Saffioti -- Santander Bank -- Analyst

Harold Elish -- UBS -- Analyst

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