MoneyGram International CEO Alex Holmes on the Business of Remittances

MoneyGram International (MGI) CEO Alex Holmes joins Industry Focus Host Nick Sciple and Motley Fool contributor Luis Sanchez to take a look at the international remittances market (aka sending money across borders), how cryptocurrency is playing a role in the market, and more!

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This video was recorded on Oct. 27, 2021.

Nick Sciple: Welcome, everybody. I'm Nick Sciple. Joining me is Motley Fool contributor Luis Sanchez. Our guest today is Alex Holmes, Chairman and CEO of MoneyGram, a leading provider of cross-border payments and money transfers with operations in more than 200 countries worldwide. Alex, thanks for joining us today.

Alex Holmes: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it.

Nick Sciple: Great to have you here with us. I gave a snippet intro on what your company does. But for somebody who hasn't heard of MoneyGram, can you maybe give the high-level overview of what your company does and the customers that you serve.

Alex Holmes: Yes, it's a great question and you did a really nice job with the intro, but fill in the blanks a little bit. MoneyGram is known globally for its ability to send and receive money real-time, across border for basically anyone who needs that type of service effectively. There is about $700 billion plus and growing every year of money going basically from point A to point B, from country to country. Our primary constituent has always been first and second-generation migrant consumers. Those individuals who left one home to migrate to another and effectively earn a better living, save money, send home, and support their family and their loved ones. Over the past decade, this industry, and MoneyGram in particular has gone through quite a large transformation. I would say that largely speaking, the business started as a cash-to-cash business. Today, we have over 400,000 physical points of presence but as digital has evolved, as consumer needs have changed, and obviously as the coronavirus pandemic has really kicked in in the past 18 months, we've seen a huge acceleration of digital. I would say MoneyGram no longer known for simply being a cash-to-cash-based money transfer business. About 30-33 percent of all of our transfers today are digitally enabled, and we do quite a bit of sends from both MoneyGram online across 37 different markets, and then a lot of receives are now sent directly into bank accounts or wallets. Effectively, if you are living in a country that's not of your origin or if your family members in another one, or if you're simply traveling, migrating, and saving money and you need to spend that money back home, we facilitate those transfers effectively real-time so you can get money where it needs to be, when you needed to be there, and it's obviously an incredibly diverse service. We serve over 25,000 different [inaudible 02:30:31] , we operate in 120 different currencies. A lot going on, always very dynamic, and always something happening.

Nick Sciple: You mentioned that $700 billion number, that really it was striking to me as I studied up on this industry is just how many dollars and remittances are getting pushed around the world, and you also mentioned the country pairs for me being in North America, US-based, obviously think of US to Latin America, Mexico as a huge channel by this is a global industry. A lot of our listeners probably have that US bias too so when you think about channels outside of North America, where really that the big places folks are doing this business?

Alex Holmes: Yeah, it's a great question. The largest received markets in the world tend to be countries like Mexico, as you mentioned. Obviously, India is a huge market. They've received quite a bit of money out of the Middle East. A lot of money coming back home from Australia, Europe, United States, Canada, Philippines is a huge market. Filipinos, I always say are always my go-to example from a diaspora who effectively go anywhere and do almost anything. You find them in construction, you find them and cruise ships, and travel industry, hospitality, you find them as a lot of domestic caretakers across the Middle East and others, and they literally will leave home for years at a time. OFWs is what they're known as Overseas Foreign Workers, and will send money back home and support their families for literally years. When you think about quarterly repairs, countries like UAE, Saudi Arabia sending money back home to Philippines, Pakistan, India, you think about Australia as a great, diverse market. 

A lot of sent back to a lot of the Asia Pacific Islands, plus a lot of money back to the Philippines and other associated areas. Clearly, the US, Canada, huge outbound markets, really literally sending almost every country in the world, but a lot of concentration down to Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, obviously the top market is Jamaica, and then you get some very diverse areas that you wouldn't think about. A lot of sense into Africa, but also a lot of sense out of Africa. When you tend to see migratory patterns where there's a lot of interactivity between either border countries or maybe where there has been some historic foreign arrangements of French-speaking Africa, a lot of money back to places like Belgium and France, and obviously France and Belgium back down. Spain to Morocco is a great corridor, a lot of sense to Romania, Romanians are obviously average migrants across Europe. Italy to Romania, these types of corridor. You see it everywhere, it's pretty dynamic but those are I think some illustrative examples.

Luis Sanchez: Yeah, that's really interesting to hear you talk about the overseas foreign workers, and one of the things I find really interesting about the markets that you serve is that it's so far moved from the typical day-to-day interactions that people in the developed world would have with their bank, and I'm really interested in hearing about how the financial needs of your customers are different from maybe the financial needs of someone who lives in the United States, who has a more typical banking relationship?

Alex Holmes: It's a really interesting question to consider because our consumers are run the gambit, but if should think about a typical receive side customer, these are going to be typically family members of the overseas foreign worker who are reliant on that money coming back home to basically pay for education, food, healthcare, shelter, etc. They are looking generally speaking for a standard remittance to come into the country, either on a weekly or bi-weekly or monthly basis depending on where they are and who might be sending. Holidays are big time celebrations, birthdays, etc, obviously also very important in the lives. Sending money home is a great way to support and say I love you, back to that family member. You get sort of all sorts of different profiles on the receive side, but the senders tend to be very mixed. Often times depending on where they're going, they could be temporary guest workers, which is very common in the Middle East, so you see a lot of, for example, people from Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan, India, who may be traveling to these countries for a short period of time and living there as temporary guest workers working on a particular project. What they're trying to do, generally speaking, when they receive their paycheck, is to get that money back home in that regular cycle. 

They're not necessarily looking to get that money banked in the country in which they're currently residing, but it's more important to get that money back home and into the hands of the receiver. Often times and traditionally, that money going back into the hands of receiver was picked up in cash. I would say that in most markets today, picking up in cash is still the predominant form of receive. It gives you the most utility and market, and as you can probably think and recognize, a lot of countries, particularly across the developing world receiving things in cash, paying for things in cash is very common. More and more, you do see receives going into bank accounts, and there's a lot of efficiency around that and we can talk about that as a proliferation of debit cards and bank accounts and wallets and other things are becoming more mainstream. You're seeing that shift a little bit. Also if you're a young worker moving overseas and actually not supporting family, but maybe saving money for yourself because you intend to return home someday, sending money in your bank account can be obviously a critical way to save so then when you return home that money is available to you. When you think about the sender in other markets as well, sometimes, they may even have a bank account or perhaps that they work for a company or an organization that requires them to have a bank account. 

But again, that will help facilitate their ability to digitally send money, to go to moneygram.com, to go to the app and actually link their bank account or link their debit card to facilitate the send back home. But again, their spending needs, their requirements in countries tend to be somewhat limited, and so their need is to get money back home, which is very different from, say yourself, who's obviously looking to get paid on a weekly or bi-weekly or monthly basis, but then that money stays in country and you're using that on a daily basis to spend for your own life. It's a very different requirement and obviously it's quite nuance in the sense of, I need some money in market because I live here and I'm here for a period of time, but I'm really primarily focused on getting that money back home. That's really the scenario for a typical first-generation migrant or a temporary guest worker whose primary objective is to earn money not to migrate. Now, we also do a lot of business with second-generation and third-generation migrants as well. 

What's happened in those scenarios often times is that someone at some point immigrated to a country and established residence there and now their children are growing up, etc, but they still have family back in Mexico, they still have family back in Honduras, Guatemala, Philippines, or Romania, wherever they may be. There's still an expectation of support going back to those families. If you think about Bangladesh, which is a great example, typically, people in Bangladesh live on about a dollar a day, so you can think about a $300 or a $500 remittance coming into the country can be completely life-changing for an individual or a family in that market. These are really critical remittances. I would say one of the most important aspects of any customer on the send side is the importance of getting money back home and ensuring it gets there on time and affordably, and so that's where I think MoneyGram does a great job to support that.

Nick Sciple: Yeah. Loved that context on really how the solutions that your business has for these customers. Zooming out from those individual customer relationships, you mentioned on how MoneyGram interacts with the banking industry. A couple of times, you just did a deal with a crypto business, you interact with other FinTech businesses. Could you characterize where MoneyGram fits into the overall financial ecosystem, where does it plug-in?

Alex Holmes: Sure. Absolutely. I would say one of the most difficult things to understand, but also one of the most difficult things to facilitate is cross-border money flows. Most banking systems anywhere in the world are designed for domestic purposes. The point being that if you're working with Chase or Bank of America here in the United States, you are working with Barclays Bank in the UK, these banks are really federally chartered, they're under the guise of the regulation in the United States, and they are there to facilitate payment flows for citizens of those countries. When you want to get money cross-border then it gets infinitely complicated and those of you who have ever tried to do an international wire transfer, the traditional way through a bank can be very expensive, it's slow, it's not transparent. Companies like MoneyGram have built global networks, 400,000 locations around the world, access to billions of bank accounts, online services, etc. Basically, with the idea to create a network that works with banks, but facilitates instant flow of funds, because getting money home transparently and quickly is really the most important aspect of what we do. 

In order to facilitate that, we put money around the world so that we can run real-time settlement flows with our partners on an overnight basis. If you think about that and maybe analogous to like a Visa, Mastercard transaction, you pay for your good at the point-of-sale with your debit card, the merchant doesn't get paid until that transaction settles overnight. In our business, you want to send money from point A to point B, we accept your send, we payout you receive, but we haven't been paid yet and we typically get paid overnight, and that's the way that we run the process. Now, the process works beautifully for us, but arguably, and this is what a lot of crypto arguments are about, is that that slightly inefficient, banks are inefficient. But again, they are not really designed to go cross-border, they're designed to protect their borders and their citizens when money moves between the two, you get into a lot of question on regulation at AML, and then also banks just aren't really built that way to facilitate those flows, and so we just sit in the middle of that. While we have a great brand name for consumers because consumers need to know who we are and what we do, we also in the background, really facilitate these real-time settlement flows, and I think do that extremely well and efficiently. The question becomes, I think, arguably is there a better way to do that longer-term? That's where there's a lot of nuanced ideation around blockchain and crypto, in is there a better way to do this? When you look at it today, you could argue, yes, potentially, that the way the blockchain works, the interoperability of crypto within that blockchain world is actually very efficient, quick and fast. The challenge becomes your on-chain in this world, and then off-chain is everything else that we're all used to in the traditional financial model, and it's really hard to bridge those two worlds. If you want to buy crypto, you have to register and sign up for an exchange. It can cost you one to two percent to three percent to buy Bitcoin with US dollars, that process can be very slow. 

You have to link your bank account, you have to link your credit card or wallet, and then put the money up there, buy it, wait for it to process. It's even more challenging on the receive side because, basically, if you sell your Bitcoin, now you've turned it back into fiat, and then you've got to collect that somehow from the exchange, which is not a very efficient process today, and again, that's 1, 2, 3, percent of costs. There's a lot of inefficiency in the interoperability between the two worlds. I'd say that the traditional financial world works pretty well. I'd say in crypto on-chain world works pretty efficiently, but there is a bridge between the two. Then there's obviously this question of, where's the crypto coming from and some of the AML and we can talk about compliance, but there's some of those challenges as well. When we look at the opportunity with Stellar, and what we're doing with Stellar and Circle and United Texas Bank, is we're really looking and saying, "Can MoneyGram play a role in the interoperability between the crypto world and the fiat world?" You have literally 5.7 million Stellar Wallet accounts out there, where effectively consumers are holding crypto, whether they've mined that, whether it's been transferred to them, whether they purchased it directly is kind of irrelevant, it's sitting in a wallet. The question becomes, I can use it, I can facilitate, I can pay for it in the online world, in the crypto world, but when you want to get it back on a fiat, there's really no on and off ramps for that. 

In our situation, if you take crypto and then sell your Bitcoin, turn it into a USDC Coin, which is a stable coin we'll talk about, and then facilitate that flow through Circle, which is a licensed exchange, they'll basically guaranteeing that that USDC is worth the equivalent in fiat, and MoneyGram is acting as a global ATM machine allowing you to withdrawal those funds out, now that they've been switched into cash. It really creates a really interesting dynamic around funds-in and funds-out interoperability between two different worlds. That's gotten into the consumer point on the back-end, which is even, I think, a little bit more interesting, is when that consumer says, "Okay. I want to take 500 USDC and convert it." Basically, we're being told simultaneously by Circle, "Okay. Now, prepare that to be cashed out." At the same time, Circle that settling with us real-time on that same transaction flow with a different set of USDC, but effectively giving us USDC into our account, which we can then convert to cash in our own ways. We're actually timing those payment flows to be real-time, so this overnight settlement I talked about before gets eliminated and you're really looking at real-time facilitation of settlement, which is not something that anyone is really doing today, and very different from what you see in a traditional banking world. I'd say both are extremely exciting, both are very interesting, but again, pushing that innovative paradigm around, how do we bridge two different worlds and then how do we really make that dynamic and accessible for everybody?

Luis Sanchez: Absolutely. Just for listeners who don't have the context. You guys, MoneyGram has announced a partnership with the Stellar Foundation to facilitate a really interesting and unique bridge between the digital cryptocurrency world and the fiat money world. It goes along this strategy that you guys have announced, that I believe you guys have referred to as MoneyGram as a service, correct me if I'm wrong. You've also announced a few other partnerships with a couple of other block chain projects, as well as some other remittance companies and other companies that operate in the more traditional financial world. Just bridging the two sides of your business here. Earlier, we talked about how you guys are the consumer-facing remittance center, and on these more MoneyGram as a service or MoneyGram partner relationships. It sounds like more of a back-end service, or could you help maybe explain the difference between how you guys work when you're dealing with partners and when you're working as more of a infrastructure or service provider, versus how that's different when you're the consumer-facing remittance partner?

Alex Holmes: Yeah. It's a great question and I'm glad you brought it up because it's really important. When you think about what MoneyGram has been going through over the last, really five years and the last couple in particular, is this huge transformation from effectively a distributed transaction processing model to much more of a consumer-facing model. Consumer-facing really works extremely well in the digital and the online space. First and foremost, MoneyGram has like we're all-in on digital. We're pushing that agenda, we want to be consumer-direct in every market that we can, and we want to get these customers that are new customers coming into the market every day, younger generations. We really focused on the digitalization and the facilitation of those funds flows. That means we want to digitize the frontend for the customer, and we want to digitize the backend settlement flows as we've just been talking about. When you look at than what does that mean for the broader context of this network that we have around the world though, we think of the network in really two parts. We think of it first and foremost is this amazing cash network that we have in 200 countries, 400,000 plus locations where we can facilitate funds-in and funds-out real time. Then we've got this continuously growing dynamic digital receive side, where we're adding bank accounts and wallet capabilities. We're really building out this extremely dynamic network that for a long time has really been stuck, I would say, in the MoneyGram world. 

You have to be part of the MoneyGram flow to do that. The more we think about it and look at it and then start to think about, is there a way to monetize that network differently? Is there a way to think about, how do you facilitate flows for others through that same network without a transaction that's necessarily branded as MoneyGram? The answer is, there's a lot of ways to do that. I think you highlighted a couple of those. But when we think about as a service to us, that means that we can provide that same ability to get money from point A to point B on behalf of a third party. It doesn't necessarily have to be an end-consumer or front-end consumer who's saying, "I want to use MoneyGram." It could be, for example, a business that has workers in foreign markets that need to get paid. It could be anyone who is a gig economy worker, who may be working in a distributed way. They could be contractors working for multiple companies that are looking to get paid. Paying people in foreign markets is very complicated as well. We talked about the trouble of moving money across border, but actually getting payroll into the hands of individuals, either into a bank account or to a wallet or even into cash, can be very complicated, particularly if you are a domestic oriented business who doesn't have an international footprint. 

But the more you think about how the world has flatten and shifted, the more you think about how digital is bringing people together. That works really well in a content perspective, works really well in a social setting, it works really well from a messaging and communication, but the financial aspect of it is still lagging a little bit behind. We really think of as a service as, MoneyGram's ability to really facilitate funds-in and funds-out, either on behalf of individual consumers or on behalf of businesses, looking to make disbursements and distributions. That is really what that's about. You highlighted a couple of digital asset partners. We announced Coinme, we announced G-Coin. Both very different companies, but a little bit of the same nuance. Really trying to think about how do you bring and bridge consumers that are not in the mainstream financial fold into the market and really give them the ability to do things that technically speaking, only bank or a more sophisticated investors can currently do today. That's what that's all about. Again, it's interesting even when the Stellar network, with Coinme. We're not actually touching the cryptocurrency at all. We're just doing what we do best, which is facilitating funds-in and funds-out and fiat. What consumers do with it on the other side is really up to them. It also allows us to be a little bit neutral on exactly who we partner with and what that partner's main job is. For example, it could be a construction company, it could be an oil and gas company, it could be a social media company. A lot of different ways to look at that. But as long as we're thinking about it from MoneyGram's ability to facilitate fund flow particularly across border, I think we have a huge opportunity there to do that and scale and do more of it.

Luis Sanchez: Absolutely. It's really fascinating that you guys have this legacy of doing payments the old fashioned way, and you have this natural advantage when it comes to translating those legacy capabilities and know how into the new digital world. I'd like to pull on the thread a bit. You said that you guys are all in on digital now, and anyone who's tracked your financial results over the last couple of years, you guys have had very eye popping growth, especially in the last two years in your digital remittance business. Could you talk about within the context of digital, what investments you're making into that product, and how you guys think about the long-term success or what you're tracking in terms of the success of the investments you're making there?

Alex Holmes: Yeah, absolutely. It's actually extremely relevant question, particularly with last week's announcement with Stellar. We are extremely focused on the future of remittances and cross-border payments, and basically funds flows for consumers and businesses and truly believe that this is going to continue to shift to digital. I think the shift that we've seen so far is definitely permanent. If I take a couple of interesting examples. In Australia today, moneygram.com, which didn't exist for us in Australia, basically, two and half three years ago is now about twice the size of our traditional walk-in cash business. If I look at India as an example, two years ago, about 10 percent of our sense into India went into a bank account, today it's about 50 percent. I think that shift to digital is there, it's real and it's as relevant, it's going to be in once a consumer downloads an app, once they get to interact with you, it really changes the paradigm, and I think of no one likes the waste time. No one likes to stand in line if they don't have to. People begin to see that ease of facilitation of funds flow. But not everyone is going to be banked, and not everyone is going to, shift away from the cash role than not, everybody is going to want to do that. 

We do think it's important to maintain the cash network and that's a little bit we just talked about. You think about that and whereas the growth is going to come from what's the future look like and so our focus right now is to shift the business that digital is as much as possible, and really begin to think about how we go deeper and wider and financial services, we're known for remittances today, but we want to be known for being much broader in financial services in general, and that means a number of things for us. First and foremost, we want to be relevant to a broader group of consumers. We need to get the demographic shifts the right way. We need to move from just these first and second-generation migrants to Gen Zs and local domestic markets. We want to actually change the way there are app works to start looking at how we shift to a wallet. Can we provide debit cards? Can you provide other financial services? How do we go deeper into that as well and provide high dollar center opportunities, today, we specialized in $300,000-$500,000 type transfers. We think we can move money in the 10,000, 20,000, and 30,000 on behalf of consumers that have a much broader need and do that in a very efficient way. We want to push that agenda as well, and so that means we need to improve in a few areas, we need to market ourselves a little differently to those customer groups, and then we obviously need to continue to improve and overhaul our app and continuing to invest in that. 

Those are really a few big initiatives that we have generally around content and then we want to expand geographically as well, we're in about 37 markets, for the moneygram.com today we want to push that into more markets, and so that might mean that we need to get some licenses and in some changing regulatory and a few markets that to get us there, but we're going to push that in a big way as well, and then we're going to look at how do we continue to broaden that horizon around the business side of it? Because we think that there's a shifts coming and we think that that needs are going to continue to grow. I think there's a variety of different ways that we can reposition that, and then obviously we've talked about stellar and the back-off this change and then also how we're looking differently or who are consumer-base can be. Geographic expansion, going deeper, going wider, adding and facilitating more funds flow. From a broader view of MoneyGram as a financial solution alternative is really where we want to go and getting the dust off of the name brand getting disassociated with how people may think of as traditionally is only cash and only check cashers or foreign exchange houses, that couldn't be further from the truth now. I think that's changing every day we've done a great job on the social media content side. I think we're doing a great job appealing to different customer demographics. Digital customers are younger, and that shifts continues to go that direction, which is exactly we want to see. I think we're getting more and more relevant every day. I think we're bringing great products to market and I think that's going to continue to benefit as particularly from a shareholder perspective as we move forward.

Luis Sanchez: Yeah. It's really cool to hear you talked about some of the things that could be on the product down the road. Another thing that we've seen is the rise if a lot of well-funded digital competitors, and a couple of them have recently, gone public. How do you view the competitive threat from these companies like world remade or remnantly?

Alex Holmes: Yes, I think look hats off to all those companies have done a really nice job positioning themselves and clearly have gotten incredible evaluations for those efforts. I think to me, it gets me super excited about what we have, and I do think and I've said this on a couple of earnings calls that I think we're underappreciated for our capabilities today, and clearly, MoneyGram has been through a lot in the past decade. We've had to deal with some legacy financial issues from the financial crisis. We've had to deal with some regulatory challenges over the past several years as we've overhaul their compliance situation. But I actually feel in many ways that in much stronger company now than we ever were in the past. I think our ability to compete is stronger than it's ever been, and we're rolling out the relevant products and doing the relevant things to push us in that direction. I think when you look at app downloads or you look at growth rates in digital, you look at how we're doing on pricing. You look at our social experiences in the media around that. I think all of those things would indicate that we are perceived very differently than we were in the past and that that shift is on its way and we will continue to move forward, and so I think anything that digital competitors are doing, we can do today and we can do better in some instances as well, and if we can't, we're going to fix that and make sure that we can going forward. We're addressing I think all those issues or taking ahead on. We're excited about it and you're going to continue to see a very different MoneyGram as we evolve and push the agenda forward.

Luis Sanchez: Yes, that makes a ton of sense. Speaking to the question of valuation in your recent earnings call and no uncertain terms, you highlighted the fact that you believe that MoneyGram's looks relatively undervalued. Just in light of that, what do you think investors are currently missing or getting wrong about MoneyGram?

Alex Holmes: I think there's probably, as always, markets are not they're usually well-informed and intelligence. I think that the challenges of the past are not easily shed, and so there is a large scale effort to change perception. I think last time we spoke, we talked about, if you asked about MoneyGram, depending on who you asked. In certain jurisdictions and in foreign markets, certain individuals will say, "Yeah, now I use moneygram.com they are great. I love their social media presence follow-up on," there's plenty people who are going to say, "Oh, isn't that like, don't they work with check cashers and don't I have to walk into a store." Again, it really comes back to a couple of different things. I think we're relevant to the customers that we need to be relevant to. But there's a broader scale. Refresh, I think, of the brand and who we are with the investor community that is underway and we will continue to be ramped up. Having conversations like this are extremely important as we talked about that new agenda, and then we've had our share of overhauling the business. 

We have a lot of investments to make. We've had a lot of challenges in the past with compliance, it's stemming all these things are fixed their addressed. But financial performance at the end of the day is what it's all about. Putting up the numbers to go with that growth, to grow the acceleration, and go with the excitement around the new products and services as important as well, and so I think consumers are seeing that from us on the front-end. Investors are going to start to see that from us coming through in the coming quarters and years. I'm excited about that. I think it's going to help change that perception, but I think what is under appreciated the most and the hardest thing to understand is that if you don't operate in this industry, if you don't use these types of services, it's really hard to associate yourself with them as an analyst on Wall Street or as a portfolio investors. That's on us to educate, that's on us to inform, and I do think again back to your question about when the online players go public at those high valuations that said someone is looking at the industry, someone's understanding it, and if you look at MoneyGram in that exact same way with the added benefit of all the cash services that we have and the ability to be different. I think that says a lot of how we should be thought about it and what our valuation should be. I'm excited about that.

Nick Sciple: Alex, maybe last question for me. Thank you so much for spending this time with us, we've talked about MoneyGram for the better part of a half hour here, lots of different nuances with the company, but just want to give you the final word. For folks, what should they take away from this conversation? What are the important bullet points to know about your company going away from here?

Alex Holmes: I think the most important thing to know about, about MoneyGram is that we are very relevant digital and continuing to be so in on a very growing and fast-moving market. I think that our services today are as relevant to mainstream consumers as they are to the migrant populations that know us and understand us so well, and so I think if you haven't seen MoneyGram and you haven't taken a look at it. Go down though the apps checkout the services. Find the Instagram accounts, follow us on Twitter, and see what's going on on LinkedIn. Get involved a little bit and I think you're going to find a very exciting, very dynamic company and you're probably learned something as well about the world and what's going on with all of your constituents and consumers in it. I think it's a great industry and it's a great business, and I'm really proud of everything we do here at MoneyGram and excited to continue to spread the word on that and push that forward. Thank you very much.

Nick Sciple: Yes, thanks, thanks for joining us. As always, people on program may own companies discussed on the show and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against the stocks discussed, so don't buy or sell anything based solely on what you hear. Thanks to Heather Horton for mixing the show for Luis Sanchez and Alex Holmes, I'm Nick Sciple. Thanks for listening and Fool on.