Shopping, Fast Fashion, Weight Loss: It's a Busy Time of Year

In this podcast, Motley Fool analyst Asit Sharma and host Dylan Lewis discuss:

• Early Cyber Monday results and why consumer spend isn't slowing down quite yet.
• News that Chinese fast-fashion company Shein will likely be coming public in 2024.
• How Weight Watchers is adjusting its strategy to incorporate weight loss drugs.

Motley Fool host Alison Southwick and personal finance expert Robert Brokamp answer listener questions about letting winning stocks run, the early days of a personal finance journey, open enrollment options, and filling a portfolio with Treasuries.

To catch full episodes of all The Motley Fool's free podcasts, check out our podcast center. To get started investing, check out our quick-start guide to investing in stocks. A full transcript follows the video.

This video was recorded on Nov. 28, 2023.

Dylan Lewis: Results are in and Cyber Monday continues to reign supreme. Motley Fool money starts now. I'm Dylan Lewis and I'm joined over the airwaves by Motley Fool analyst, Asit Sharma. Asit thanks for joining me.

Asit Sharma: Dylan, thank you for having me.

Dylan Lewis: We've got to look at Cyber Monday activity, new name in retail that'll be hitting the public markets in 2024, and a company that is shifting its view on the weight loss drugs. Asit here's the season, let's get started with the Cyber Monday reactions. We have some updated data now that Cyber Monday is in the books, consumer spent over $12 billion on Cyber Monday according to Adobe Analytics, up almost 10% year over year. Asit, I've been warned for a while that we're going to see some weakness in consumer spending. It does not seem to be showing up here, what gives?

Asit Sharma: Two words Dylan, animal spirits. That's, of course, a favorite term of economists to describe an economy which is moving along, because people have a propensity to expand or consumers to spend, and we've been seeing that all year. The Bloomberg columnist John Authors had a pretty insightful analysis of the situation a few days ago. He pointed out that all across the world, consumers have been reluctant to spend. They've been saving more but in America, consumers have not felt bad about dipping into their wallets, and I think this is partly due to the fact that we've got a pretty tight labor market, and we naturally have a tendency to spend in the US, but it is a consumption-based economy, so there's a lot of money still left over, still sloshing around from when the Fed put money into the economy here. At some point, of course you have to pay the piper, so maybe spending comes to a bit of a halt. But for now, this is further evidence that the consumer is strong and that is an important core of this economy.

Dylan Lewis: Our colleagues, Deidre Woollard and Jason Moser, were talking through Black Friday results yesterday. There's a similar story here when we look over at Black Friday, I think all told you take, what we saw with Black Friday and Cyber Monday. You're looking at over $20 billion in spending. Black Friday spend was up as well. But this was a year where Cyber Monday continued to stretch its lead on Black Friday, outpacing it in terms of growth and continuing to be a bigger part of the consumption story, Asit were there any particular stories you were watching this Cyber Monday?

Asit Sharma: I myself have been just watching over the weekend, little bits of news of what the spend was like. I was following Shopify's Hall, they also had really great results, Dylan. I think what we've done as consumers is to internalize that whole stretch of days between Black Friday, and Cyber Monday. Because it really is a discount procession the whole weekend into Monday, and I think it's subconscious for most of us, we don't wake up as much on Black Friday thinking I've got to take advantage of the deals today. You already know that until, I don't know, late in the day on Monday, even spilling into Tuesday, you'll still be able to snag some deals. Personally, I actually, bought some stuff yesterday. I was curious did you partake of any of the deals over this extended stretch of days?

Dylan Lewis: I did not. But that's not because I wasn't deal-seeking Asit, and not because I didn't want to buy gifts, it was just because I didn't have it together. I didn't have what I needed, I didn't have my list ready to go. I am a habitually late shopper and I often pay for it.

Asit Sharma: Something tells me that online retailers have a solution for you that's more deals on toward Christmas.

Dylan Lewis: I think that's right. Speaking of retail, we have news of a new company coming public in 2024. We saw early reports of Shein Chinese-based E Commerce business, intending to go public. They filed a confidential filing with the SEC. Asit this is a business we don't have a full sense of because it was a confidential filing, but one that is in the news plenty and fairly controversial. It's drawn some criticism for its fast fashion and some of the waste that's associated with that, but it's also incredibly popular among young consumers. We don't know a lot about it at this point, but is this a name that you're interested in?

Asit Sharma: Dylan it's a name that I think has a lot of risk in it. Shein is a fascinating company and just how fast it's grown. The company benefits from a little-known import rule in the US, which is if you are sending over $800, or less of merchandise, you're not subject to import tariffs. Shein sells a lot of stuff that's ten bucks or less they ship directly to consumers. They have an inherent advantage in their business model which helps them generate cash flow. But that's coming under regulatory scrutiny, so that might be a risk for those who are interested in this IPO. The US government could say, hey, it's been a long time since we looked at what's called a de minimus amount of 800 bucks. Maybe we should take that down more than a few notches so that we as a sovereign country don't lose out on that revenue that we could collect that import tariff. That's one of the things that I am worry of. Second is what you've alluded to. There are some concerns about forced labor in its supply chain. Shein insists that it does not have any forced labor in its factories, but it still needs to certify to investors and US government that alter out its supply chain. It's clean on that front. Then there's that waste factor that you mentioned associated with fast fashion, I worry about that too, just in the name of being able to produce goods cheaper. We are flooding the world with maybe extraneous material that it's hard to dispose of, hard to recycle.

This is something else that makes me a little suspect about wanting to invest in this business. I'll give you for those of you who are like Asit and Dylan, that doesn't bother me so much. What about the economic argument? I'd still be careful here Dylan, There's a company called Temu, It's owned by Pindoduo, and Pindoduo just released its results. Fantastic growth for this company because of this online retailer that's very similar to Shein and Zara and H&M. Now Temu sells more than just fashion, but it's interesting to me that this company, a subsidiary of Pindoduo, which was launched in September of last year, is going to do 16 billion bucks in business this year Dylan. It shows you how little of a mote these types of models are or have in this day and age. I'm not sure everything is going to add up here. Shein is looking at a pretty big IPO, I've seen estimates anywhere from 66 billion to 90 billion bucks. As you and I were chatting about earlier before the show, they haven't filed their S1 yet, so we really haven't seen the numbers. But it's one I'll take a glancing look at. What are your thoughts, are you interested in this one?

Dylan Lewis: It'll certainly be a splashy IPO when it does come public. It's one of those names that you either know it, and are incredibly familiar with it or have never heard of it and are shocked that it is the size that it is. Actually, I think this is one of those good for holiday dinner table talk type topics. Because if you have someone in your life that's under the age of 25, there's probably a very strong chance that they are familiar with this brand, and have seen it on social media. It's a great opportunity to maybe get outside of yourself if you're not in that demo, and talk to some younger friends and family about their experiences with it. What's fascinating to me is this is one of the most downloaded fashion apps. I think it's the most downloaded fashion app of 2022 in both the Google and Apple App Stores, which is a sign of the traction that it has. I do wonder how defendable that mote is because it seems mostly asset this is a business that operates on being the low-cost provider and razor thin margins, and that can be tough.

Asit Sharma: Totally, and before we move on to the next topic, I'll give one counter to my pessimism, and that is, with this influencer generation, the company has figured out something that's sort of magic. They can throw up to 10,000 products on their site every day if they want to Dylan, but they produce in teeny batches. Some of these items they're not going to produce at all. They watch through an algorithmic process, what's catching fire with that generation that has downloaded the app and is within the influence survive and then they start piling up in bulk, those items which are gaining traction, the analytics are pretty solid, and that is a novel part of their model still. I don't think it's indefensible, but when we get that prospectus and can look through it, maybe I'll find something in there that's worth hanging onto.

Dylan Lewis: Would love to do an S1 tear down with you on that one Asit, but we'll have to wait. Our final story today is about the weight loss drugs, but I promise this one feels like it is real and material to the business. This is not some earnings call mention of Wegovy, or one of the other drugs. In an interview, a CNN Business Weight Watchers CEO Sima Sistani said the company got it wrong, focusing simply on the diet, and exercise portions of managing weight. That they are now embracing weight loss drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy to manage chronic obesity. This is a pretty major turn Asit for this business, and one that they have started to position themselves for. I think going back to last year, they bought Sequence a telehealth company for about $100 million, what do you think of this transition in this pivot?

Asit Sharma: Dylan, this is interesting because, Weight Watchers has gone through a few different configurations over the past, say, five years. They turned into more of a marketing company focusing on wellness, when wellness became a big trend, but that model wasn't sticky for them, and they have had that legacy model of stores and meetings counseling for a long time. Sima Sistani who you mentioned is the relatively new CEO. She got rid of the store experience and the meeting experience, although it still happens online. Her point is, look, we are better as a company with a core product and that core product really is about subscriptions. We need to be a subscription revenue company giving our members guidance on how to deal with weight loss. In this era of these weight loss drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy which you mentioned, we need to be the first point of contact because US physicians don't have a lot of experience in prescribing these drugs. This sequence acquisition that you mentioned is pretty interesting. I think the actual purchase price was something like 131 million bucks, Dylan. Eighty-nine million bucks of that is going to goodwill. What did the company acquire for that? It acquired the ability to prescribe these weight loss drugs through a series, they're not directly owned clinics that there's actually a relationship called variable interest entity, but let's just say for shorthand, they have a relationship with doctors prescriptions groups which allow them to have this new form of subscription revenue, and that is subscribing these medicines. Guess what, if you stop taking this new class of weight loss drugs, the effects wear off, you have to keep taking them. Weight watchers wants to both be the first point, where you have that medicine subscribed to. They want to be there when you need to reup, and then they want to sell you on how to manage the whole holistic combination of having the weight loss drug, doing some exercise, eating the right foods to have this healthy lifestyle. I actually think it's maybe a better business model than what they had before, and this pivot makes sense. I do have a few cautions though.

Dylan Lewis: I think that totally makes sense. Caution is how we broadly have to look at anything involving these weight loss drugs at this point. Just because they're simply so much we don't know of the businesses that we have talked about with some exposure to it, some mention of it. I was happy to discuss this one because it at least ties into the core business and feels like something that is somewhat tied to the strategy and how the company makes money. There's a part of me that thinks almost that this is a bit of a survival mechanism for weight watchers, just given where the industry is going, needing to be at the core of where people are thinking about this stuff.

Asit Sharma: The nature of the weight loss industry is that there is no static way to go about helping people with their objectives. Objectives, change people's image of themselves, technology changes in the form of medicines that you can take. They almost have to shift that model every few years. Dylan, you mentioned something that's really interesting to me. We don't know over the long term if after five years or seven years studies will come out, clinical studies that say, look, these drugs, they're good for diabetes but they're harmful for things like weight loss. They actually have X, Y, and Z deleterious effects. Weight watchers will have to pivot again. One note of caution that I will say for those who are listening and think that this new class of drugs is going to explode, it could be great for this turnaround story in weight watchers is, every time Weight Watchers has pivoted, it's either used up some cash on its balance sheet or gone into debt. Now a big part of their operating income is taken up by interest payments on maybe $1.5 billion bucks of debt at an average interest rate now of somewhere around seven and half percent. It's really going to have to get some traction from this latest pivot and be able to meet the obligations to pay interest and also pay down some of that debt over the next few years. Otherwise, I do agree with you, Dylan. This at least makes sense if a company has to pivot. Pivot to something which will fit within your business model. Since they've moved to subscription-based model, the weight loss prescriptions via telehealth, it sort of makes sense.

Dylan Lewis: Asit I appreciate you getting past the height of the headline and digging down into the financials, bringing us down to the reality of this business and some of the very real challenges that they face. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Asit Sharma: Totally Dylan. Thanks is always for having me. This is a lot of fun.

Dylan Lewis: Coming up. You've got questions, we've got answers, well Bro has answers. Up next. Alison Southwick and Robert Brokamp go through listener questions on how far to let your winners run, switching from stocks to treasuries, and the early days of your personal finance journey.

Alison Southwick: Our first question comes from Laughing Raven. I'm new to individual stock investing. I just opened a taxable account about a year ago and I'm up to about 20 positions. I have, however, been pretty diligent about stocking money away in my 403(b) and the index funds they offer. This account is a reasonably small part of my overall financial picture. As you've probably noticed, Microsoft has had a great year enough so that it's creeping up on 10% of my account. Do you trim your winners back after they reach a certain threshold? Does it vary based on your comfort level with that particular company? For now, my thought is just to not add to it, and unless they continue to crush it, the percent of total will come down. But I'm also wondering what I would or should do if I had gotten into NVIDIA at the beginning of the year and seen it triple.

Robert Brokamp: Well, congrats on getting up to 20 stocks in about a year. You're closer to the 25 that we generally recommend as a bare minimum. But it's fine if you don't do it all at once, so good for you. Yes, Microsoft has had a heck of a year up 60% year to date. It now has a market cap of $2.8 trillion. Basically, fighting with Apple to be the most valuable company in the world. I can understand why you'd want to look at that and say, well, maybe it's time to trip it back. I would say the starting rule of thumb here at the Motley Fool is that you think about cutting back when a stock becomes 10% of your overall portfolio. Now you say it's getting close to 10% of this account, but this account is just a small portion of your overall portfolio when you look at your 403(b). It's probably OK. That said, you do mention that you have index funds in your 403(b). If you look at those index funds, I bet they have a lot of Microsoft. Microsoft now is a little bit more than 7% of the S&P 500 more than 12% of the Nasdaq, so I would consider your overall allocation to Microsoft, and then think about maybe it's time to cut back at some point. But I like your plan, just don't add to it, if you add to your other holdings, then generally, Microsoft will probably maintain a reasonable allocation in your portfolio. Another consideration would be to not reinvest the dividends, if that's what you're doing. Microsoft does not have a particularly big dividend, it's a little below 15. But even if you instead use that cash to invest in something else that also will manage the allocation to Microsoft. That said, once you look at your entire portfolio, including your 403(b), then you see that Microsoft is getting to be 10% or more of your portfolio, then you might consider cutting it back a bit.

Alison Southwick: Our next question comes from Debbie Downer, who must be a long lost cousin to Robert Perpetual Pessimist Brokamp here on the show. Let's get into it. Hey fools, I'm here with a question that I'm a bit ashamed to be asking, so please give me some grace. Debbie, you got it? It's been about two years since I really started focusing on personal finance and trying to get my house in order. Yet I feel as though I've made no progress. There just always seems to be one expense after another. Despite my best efforts. I find that each month I continue to live paycheck to paycheck. I'm not going into debt, but I'm also not able to save or invest anything beyond the 9% I put in my 401K, that gets a 6% match from my employer. Many personal finance influencers make the basics of budgeting sound so easy, and they give you this ladder-like system and make it sound as though graduating to next steps, like building an emergency fund and beginning to invest, happens overnight. I suppose I'd also like to hear any advice you have about how I might begin to make actual progress on this front. Maybe some words of encouragement for someone who feels like they're stuck in a real financial rut despite their best efforts to change it.

Robert Brokamp: Well, Debbie, let me tell you, you're doing great. You're saving for retirement. That's probably the most important financial goal for anyone. You're actually not technically living paycheck to paycheck because you are saving and investing. Plus, your overall savings rate is 15%. That's the 9% from you, 6% for your employer, which is the recommended amount these days. You're doing great there. In fact, you're doing better than most people. As for the rest of it, this sounds cliche, but really getting your personal finances in order is a journey. I look back to when I started, when I was an elementary school teacher back in the 90's., and I would say the first two years, all I did was make sure that I became better educated and avoided major mistakes. I think the only active thing I did was open an IRA, I definitely didn't put in 15%, so you're ahead of where I was along your personal finance journey. Now, if you're having trouble saving for the other goals, emergency fund, car, things like that, then focus on the two main factors that determine your ability to save. Those basically, your expenses and your income. It's in the end of the year, you're going to probably get some year end statements from your bank account and your credit card statement giving an idea of where your money was spent.

You could look at how your money was spent over the year and just ask yourself as you look at those expenses, was that thing or experience that I bought worth the money? You might be able to identify categories that you can cut back on. Really once you cut that back, all you have to do is just save a little bit of money. Maybe to direct 10, 25, $50 a month to some high-yield savings account. You do that gradually, increase it when you can, and that'll build up over the years, then the other aspect is your income. That is, if you like, where you work, talk to your manager about what it would take to get a raise. A year or two ago we talked about how people who are getting the biggest raises were people who basically, went to another employer, jump ship. If you're not happy with your current job, that might be something to consider. I would add a little caveat to that, that recent surveys that have asked people about whether they were happy that they changed jobs just for the money, and most of them were not. If you're happy where you are, stay there, but just investigate some ways to maybe get a higher income. Really, I would just want to close by, say, you should give yourself a pat on the back. You're not in debt and you're saving more for retirement than most people, so I think you're off to a great start.

Alison Southwick: Next question comes from Cedric in Nomadland. I am currently fire, financially independent, retired early, and in my early 30's, so I live off my investments. My portfolio is 80% pick stocks and 20% real estate. The current treasury yields are higher than the 4% rate that I need from my investments to support my current lifestyle. An obvious strategy would be to sell all of my stock holdings and buy 20 or 30-year bonds that will provide my income until I'm older. The problem I see is that holding only bonds means my portfolio won't be growing and therefore, won't keep up with inflation. However, I could argue that the real estate portion of the portfolio is the one that would grow my overall portfolio. Another problem I see is a potential cost of opportunity if the rates were to rise a little bit more, and I will miss out on it. I also see that the yield curve is currently inverted, so it seems dumb to buy 20 year bonds that yield less than six-month bonds. I have also been taking advantage of the $90,000 of long-term capital gains that are tax-free, assuming you're married. From what I understand, treasury coupon payments would be taxed as income at the federal level, which would be painful. Is it a good idea to sell all stocks and buy all treasuries now that I can lock in a rate that I know will cover all of my living expenses and a little bit more for the next 20 years, and is there a way to do this that would not force me to pay income tax on the coupon payments?

Robert Brokamp: Well Cedric, it sounds like you're aware of most of the downsides of selling all your stocks and just buying treasuries. Of the issues that you highlight, I think the biggest is inflation risk. There's a reason why the term 'fixed income' is applied to treasuries and bonds. Let's say you invested $100,000 in a 20-year treasury, which these days is yielding 4.8%. Well, you'll get $4,800 this year and then $4,800 the next year and so on and so forth. Each year, those interest payments are going to lose purchasing power. Plus in 20 years, you're going to get back $100,000, so it didn't grow and that will have really lose purchasing power. Now, would you get enough inflation protection from your real estate portfolio? My hunch is probably not, but it really does depend on your situation. Maybe you've run the numbers and you think that will work. As for the risk of buying bonds and then rates rising later, these are very difficult things to time. It's like timing the stock market, it's very difficult to time the interest rate market. In fact, rates have actually, been heading down the last few weeks as inflation came in lower than expected in October.

The market is betting that the Fed has actually, done raising rates. But I would focus more on whether buying treasuries a current rate suits or needs. Yields are the highest, they've been in more than 15 years, so I think it would make sense for anyone who's retired to have some money in treasuries and bonds, though you get the most bang for your buck, which economists would call the highest risk-adjusted returns from short term and intermediate term bonds, especially when the yield curve is inverted. Finally, you bring up a very important point, and I think it's an underappreciated point. One of the underappreciated benefits of living off capital gains that is under a certain threshold, long term capital gains are tax-free. For 2023, those thresholds are below an adjusted gross income of 44,625 for single filers, and then twice that for married tax taxpayers filing jointly. These figures are going to go up a few thousand dollar in 2024. Now if you sell enough to knock your AGI above those amounts, the excess will be taxed, and my guess is that if you decide to sell all your stocks to buy bonds, you'll be realizing a significant amount in gains, but the amounts up to that threshold are still tax free. Unfortunately, there's no such benefit for bond interest or short term gains, so you'll just have to pay the taxes.

Alison Southwick: Next question comes from Ava in Denver. Hi Fools. I know it's getting to be near the end of open enrollment season, but wanted to ask a question that I'm faced with year after year. How can I be strategic about choosing between a health savings account and a flexible spending account? An HSA versus an FSA, and how much should I be setting aside to go into whichever account I opt into? For context, I'm single with no dependents, 27 years old, and very healthy, and have decent but not massive savings. But I am an avid skier. While I hope to continue to avoid injuries, I'm always cognizant that a wrong turn on the slopes could set me back a pretty penny between potential surgeries and physical therapy. I've had enough friends face snow sports-related injuries that I'm pretty familiar with that process. Anywho, any thoughts? What say you?

Robert Brokamp: Well, let's start by explaining the basics of each account so we're all on the same page. FSA allows you to set aside a certain amount of your paycheck, pre-tax, that's a tax benefit that can then be used for qualified medical expenses. It's a user or loser account, so you should only set aside the amount that you expect to spend in a given year. Though some money can be rolled over to the following year depending on your plan, which by the way, public service announcement, for those who already have an FSA, make sure that you spend most or all of that money before the year is over. We've got about four weeks to do that. Now a health savings account also allows you to set aside money, pre-tax, and your employer might throw some money into the account as well. Then you choose how to invest that money and it grows tax deferred. Any withdrawals that you use for qualified medical expenses are tax free. The health savings account is the only account with triple the tax benefits, tax deduction, tax deferred growth, tax-free withdrawals, at least with the money that is eventually used for medical expenses. You don't have to spend the money in any given year, it could just keep growing. If you change employers, you take the account with you.

As you hinter Ava, you generally can't have both an FSA and an HSA, though some employers offer employees the option of having what's called a Limited Purpose FSA, but that's only could be used for dental and vision expenses. In most circumstances, I would say it makes the most sense to go with the health savings account. You can use the money if you need it, but you can let it compound through the years if you don't, and most employers will throw in some money as well, so you're getting that extra money from your company. Again, withdrawals are tax free if you use the money for qualified medical expenses. If used for other purposes before age 65, you'll pay taxes and a 20% penalty, so don't put money in the HSA that you might need for other purposes. But after age 65, you'll pay just taxes, so it really becomes another retirement account. Given the choice, I would say go with the HSA. The most you can contribute for 2024 is $4,150 for single folks, twice that for families, and if you can max it out, go for it.

Alison Southwick: Our last question comes from Blake. "One of my favorite aspects of the work you are all doing is that you don't just focus on money, but on mindset. I've learned a lot about investing and I mean a lot, from all the Fools over the years, but some of the lessons I carry most closely are those that have more to do with philosophy. How you think about the world as a long-term investor, and approach even scary times with practical, rational, foolish optimism. Anyway, with that in mind, I'm wondering if there are any particular ways in which you practice gratitude. This time of year always inspires me to step back, reflect, and audit different aspects of my life. Do you do anything similar? Would love to hear about specific practices of this if so. Thankful for you all, Blake" Thankful for you too.

Robert Brokamp: What a great question, Blake. I have to say I'm not very good at practicing gratitude but because you bring it up, I'm thinking I probably should do more of it. I don't make an annual tradition of it, but I think it's a great idea. But after I read your question, here's what came to mind for me, and that is my wife and I are empty nesters this year. For the first time, we don't have anyone with us. We have our oldest daughter is married, and then the three kids are in college, and this Thanksgiving was the first time we had the three youngest ones back from college, the oldest was with her in-laws. I thought back to how I've been now saving for college for 20 years. I've been very fortunate to be able to save enough, I've been fortunate enough to have a wife who agrees that it's a priority, and frankly, I've been fortunate enough to have kids to go to state colleges, so it's not so expensive. I would just say that it's very gratifying to have a long term goal and see the finish line and feel like, OK, this is all going to really work, and it's all going to work out, all the effort, all the saving paid off. For that, I actually am very grateful. Allison, what about you?

Alison Southwick: Well, I'm flattered that Blake thinks that we are somehow experts in gratitude. I don't do a gratitude journal or anything like that, and so personally, I think there's room for improvement in my life, for being more grateful. I am grateful, I am healthy, everyone I know and love is healthy. I have a roof over my head, those kinds of things. But I think gratitude can often be like, you're driving down the highway and maybe you see someone broken down on the side of the road and you're like, "Oh jeez, I'm glad I'm not them" [laughs]. Like gratitude can be a sense of like, "Oh, look at that guy over there. He's suffering but I'm doing OK", and then you move on with your life and you don't think about it. I think probably there's room for improvement in my life, in the gratitude department and having actions behind my gratitude, so not just being thankful that you're not some schmuck on the side of the road who busted a tire, but you're actually trying to help that person and help those around you have a great life, have a life that's as good as yours.

I don't know what that means necessarily. Thanks, Blake for making us be all more plaintive and thoughtful about what we're doing. But for me, Blake's question made me think about, can I not just be grateful, but also put action behind that gratitude to help other people out so that they can have a great life as well.

Robert Brokamp: That sounds good to me.

Dylan Lewis: As always, people in the program may own stocks mentioned and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy or sell anything based solely on what you hear. I'm Don Lewis. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.