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DATE
Tuesday, July 29, 2025 at 12:00 a.m. ET
CALL PARTICIPANTS
Chief Executive Officer — Sean Saint
Chief Financial Officer — Stephen Feider
Head of Investor Relations — Blake Beber
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TAKEAWAYS
Net Sales: $23.2 million in net sales for Q2 2025, representing 54% year-over-year growth, driven by increased patient adoption.
New Patient Starts: 4,934 new patients adopted the islet in Q2 2025, a 57% increase in new patient starts versus the prior year; 71% of new patient starts originated from multiple daily injection users.
Pharmacy Channel Penetration: High twenties percentage of new patient starts were reimbursed through pharmacy in Q2 2025, up from mid-single-digits in Q2 2024 and low twenties in the previous quarter.
PBM Access: As of July 1, Beta Bionics has formulary agreements with all major pharmacy benefit managers in the U.S, facilitating broader pharmacy channel access.
Gross Margin: 53.8% gross margin for Q2 2025, up slightly from 53.7% in Q2 2024, reflecting cost discipline and increased manufacturing scale.
Operating Expenses: $32.4 million in total operating expenses for Q2 2025, an increase of 63% compared to $19.9 million in Q2 2024; growth primarily came from sales force expansion and R&D associated with Mint and bihormonal projects.
Cash and Investments: $281 million as of June 30, 2025, supporting operational and pipeline initiatives.
Full-Year 2025 Net Sales Guidance: Increased to $88 million–$93 million from $82 million–$87 million previously for full-year 2025 net sales guidance, incorporating higher pharmacy mix expectations.
2025 Pharmacy Mix Guidance: Increased to 25%–28% of new starts via pharmacy, up from prior guidance of 22%–25%.
Gross Margin Guidance Raised: Now projected at 52%–55% for the year, compared to the prior 50%–53%, due to increased scale and higher-margin pharmacy recurring revenue.
Bionic Portal Update: Launch in the quarter enabled healthcare providers to access real-time outcomes, receiving positive initial feedback and accelerating adoption among clinicians.
Sales Force Expansion: Added 20 new territories in the quarter for a total of 63 sales territories.
Product Pipeline Progress: Mint patch pump remains on track for commercialization by 2027, and bihormonal PKPD bridging study dosing completed in July 2025, with results expected this year.
Type 2 Diabetes Patient Uptake: Over 25% of new patient starts were type 2 diabetes patients, reflecting growing off-label physician use.
CMS Payment System Proposal: Proposed shift to pay-as-you-go rental model for insulin pumps and competitive bidding to start as early as 2027, with only 10%–15% of users directly affected.
SUMMARY
Beta Bionics (BBNX 14.32%) enhanced pharmacy channel adoption, and increased full-year guidance, demonstrating expanding market reach and operational scale. Management expects higher recurring revenue and margin resilience from the pharmacy mix, while maintaining robust cash levels and advancing multiple pipeline programs toward key milestones. The company anticipates adapting effectively to potential CMS reimbursement changes and sees increased engagement among healthcare providers, as evidenced by new digital tools and strong feedback. Significant new patient starts originated from the multiple daily injection segment, and prescription trends indicate material off-label use in type 2 diabetes. CMS regulatory timing could begin impacting payment methodologies in 2027, but leadership believes the changes will not have a material adverse effect on the business model.
Sean Saint said, "the islet delivered an average baseline A1c to follow a GMI decline of 1.6% in the real world." highlighting clinical differentiation among insulin pumps.
Stephen Feider noted that increasing pharmacy channel adoption creates a short-term revenue headwind, but a cumulative multi-year revenue tailwind, with a $1 million headwind to 2025 revenue potentially turning into a $9 million cumulative tailwind through 2028 if pharmacy mix remains elevated.
Mint's commercial launch remains targeted for 2027, with features designed to blend best-in-class user experience with over-the-air updates and enhanced flexibility.
Management stated, "we expect the pharmacy channel's gross margin will consistently outperform the DME channel's gross margin." anticipating improved profitability as the business scales.
Preliminary results for the bihormonal PKPD study are in line with expectations and support continued development.
Operating leverage is expected as sales and marketing and G&A cost growth moderate, with future R&D spending described as "lumpy" as clinical programs progress.
INDUSTRY GLOSSARY
DME: Durable Medical Equipment; refers to long-lasting medical devices, such as insulin pumps, typically reimbursed on an upfront purchase model via healthcare payers.
PBM: Pharmacy Benefit Manager; organization that manages prescription drug benefits and negotiates pharmacy contracts for insurers and employers.
PKPD Study: Pharmacokinetic/Pharmacodynamic study; evaluates a drug's absorption, distribution, metabolism, and physiological effects.
GMI: Glucose Management Indicator; an estimated A1c derived from continuous glucose monitoring data.
505(b)(2) NDA: A regulatory pathway for new drug applications in the U.S. that allows sponsors to rely in part on existing data for previously approved products.
ACE and IAGC 510(k)s: Abbreviated FDA clearances for insulin delivery pumps and control algorithms.
Full Conference Call Transcript
Operator: Good afternoon, and welcome to the Beta Bionics Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session. Instructions will follow at that time. As a reminder, please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Blake Beber, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Blake Beber: Thank you. Good afternoon, and thank you for tuning in to Beta Bionics' Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Call. Joining me for today's call are Chief Executive Officer, Sean Saint, and Chief Financial Officer, Stephen Feider. Both the replay of this call and the press release discussing our second quarter 2025 results will be available on the Investor Relations section of our website. Replay will be available for approximately one year following the conclusion of this call. Information recorded on this call speaks only as of today, 07/29/2025. Therefore, if you are listening to the replay, any time-sensitive information may no longer be accurate. Also on our website is our supplemental second quarter 2025 earnings presentation and updated corporate presentation.
We encourage you to refer to those documents for a summary of key metrics and business updates. Before we begin, we'd like to remind you that today's discussion will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements reflect management's expectations about future events, our product pipeline, development timelines, financial performance, and operating plans. Please refer to the cautionary statements in the press release we issued earlier today as well as our SEC filings, including our Form 10-Q filed today for a detailed explanation of the inherent limitations of such forward-looking statements.
These documents contain and identify important factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from current expectations expressed or implied by our forward-looking statements. Please note that the forward-looking statements made during this call speak only as of today's date, and we undertake no obligation to update them to reflect subsequent events or circumstances except to the extent required by law. Today's discussion will also include references to non-GAAP financial measures with respect to our performance, namely adjusted EBITDA. Non-GAAP financial measures are provided to give our investors information that we believe is indicative of our core performance and reflects our ongoing business operations. We believe these non-GAAP financial measures facilitate better comparisons of operating across reporting periods.
Any non-GAAP information presented should not be considered as a substitution independently or superior to results prepared in accordance with GAAP. Please refer to our earnings press release and supplemental earnings presentation on the Investor Relations section of our website for reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to their most directly comparable GAAP financial measure. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Sean for some opening remarks.
Sean Saint: Thanks, Blake. Good afternoon, everyone. And thank you for joining us for our second quarter 2025 earnings call. We're excited to share with you all today our financial results for the second quarter as well as positive updates to our full-year guidance for 2025. Starting with our performance in the second quarter, our team continues to execute at the highest level across all aspects of our business, and we made key advances commercially, clinically, and in our innovation pipeline.
We continue to see robust demand for the islet, and our efforts to expand the islet's commercial reach resulted in a record number of new patient starts in the quarter in both the DME and pharmacy channels, and a record percentage of those new patient starts going to the pharmacy channel. In late June, we hosted our first investor and analyst day. We talked about the islet's place on the continuum of user engagement from hybrid to fully closed loop and the continuum of system adaptation from static to adapted algorithms. The islet demands the least engagement from the user and delivers the most automated adaptation of any AID system, setting a new standard for our industry.
We also highlighted the superior clinical outcomes of the islet with our real-world data to the first two years of islet's launch. We demonstrated that the islet drove meaningful changes from baseline HbA1c to follow-up glucose management indicator or GMI, which is a proxy for A1c, regardless of our user's baseline A1c group, prior therapy, or level of engagement with the islet. We also shared outcomes for users treated by endocrinologists or primary care practices, and the outcomes were virtually the same. We're extremely proud of those data and believe that islet is the only pump in the market that's capable of producing those results across such a wide range of users and clinicians.
It's important to remind you all that if we had a user's baseline A1c and at least three weeks of CGM data uploaded to our cloud, they were included in our real-world results. We've noticed a trend in our industry of subsegmented data in ways that make it appear more favorable, sometimes in dramatic fashion. And we encourage everyone to read the fine print on these datasets to get a better sense of how populations are being subsegmented in a way that skews the results. Beta Bionics is committed to providing fair and honest representations of our real-world data.
And when we do subsegment our data, we do it to highlight the performance of our system in our hardest users, not our easiest ones. In this way, we are not only setting a new standard with our technology but also with our approach to sharing real-world results. In Q2, we also made some key strides in our innovation pipeline, which I'll dive into in more detail later in the call. I've never been more confident that we're building a highly differentiated business that is poised to achieve success over the short, medium, and long term. The team's dedication to our mission of delivering life-changing solutions that simplify and alleviate the burden of managing diabetes is stronger than ever.
And we want to thank our community of users, healthcare providers, and caregivers in our Bionic universe that inspire us every day to achieve our mission. For today's call, I'll cover our Q2 results, which exceeded our expectations across the board. Stephen will provide some additional color on our performance in the quarter while highlighting positive updates to our annual guidance for the full year 2025. I'll discuss the recent CMS proposal for the 2026 durable medical equipment payment system, which has implications for durable insulin pumps and Beta Bionics. Lastly, I'll wrap up the call with key updates across our innovation pipeline, including Mint, which is our patch pump program, and then our bihormonal system.
Starting with a brief overview of our Q2 2025 financial performance, I'm proud to announce that we delivered $23.2 million in net sales, which grew 54% year over year. In Q2, we saw 4,934 new patients adopt the islet, growing 57% versus the prior year. A high twenties percentage of those new patient starts were reimbursed through the pharmacy channel, which is substantially higher than the mid-single-digit percentage we saw in Q2 of the prior year and increasing relative to the low twenties percentage we saw in Q1 of this year.
As a reminder, we believe the best metric to measure pharmacy coverage is the percentage of total new patient starts that were reimbursed through pharmacy, as opposed to percent of lives covered under formulary arrangements with pharmacy benefit managers or PBMs, which doesn't account for adoption by the underlying health plans or the underlying logistics required to utilize this channel. As of July 1, Beta Bionics has effective formulary agreements in place with all the major PBMs that operate in the US. While we're proud of that accomplishment, it does not yet mean that all of those patients are benefiting from the pharmacy channel.
We'll continue to work with the health plans that partner with those PBMs to expand adoption of the islet under the pharmacy benefit. We've been successfully doing over the last two years. Shifting now to gross margin. Our gross margin in the quarter was 53.8%, up slightly relative to 53.7% in 2024. There are a few moving pieces that impacted our gross margin in Q2 that Stephen will address in detail shortly. But overall, our gross margin in Q2 is indicative of our continued cost discipline across the business as well as our ability to extract leverage from our fixed manufacturing overhead as we continue to build scale.
As I mentioned earlier, these Q2 results exceeded our expectations across the board, and I'm proud of what our team's accomplished. There are a number of drivers to point to when it comes to our strong performance, we expect all of them to continue to contribute to our performance going forward. The first driver to call out is the market's deepening appreciation for our highly differentiated, fully adaptive closed-loop algorithm. At the investor and analyst day, we showed that the islet delivered an average baseline A1c to follow a GMI decline of 1.6% in the real world. A result that we believe is unique in the history of insulin pumping and even diabetes management more broadly.
And we're generating those results in our true real-world population, meaning our entire user base for whom we have baseline A1c, at least three weeks of CGM data. This isn't a fractional advantaged subsegment of our data. This is a representative real-world population. With each quarter, we see the islet growing into new accounts and penetrating deeper into existing accounts, and there's still substantial runway. In Q2, we launched an update for the Bionic Portal, our healthcare provider portal, which now allows providers to access real-time clinical outcomes for their patients that are using the islet.
The updated portal facilitates collaboration between providers in the clinic, enhances the connection that providers have with their islet patients between visits, and enriches communications between providers and their patients during visits to the clinic. Initial feedback from islet prescribers has been overwhelmingly positive. And we're already seeing the Bionic portal drive more rapid adoption of the islet at the provider and clinic level. As you may recall, in 2024, we launched three new products, including integration with Abbott's Freestyle Libre 3 plus CGM, color islet, and the Bionic Circle remote monitoring app. These product launches continue to gain traction in Q2, and we expect their contribution to continue to grow in Q1.
We expanded our sales force by 20 territories to bring our total territory count to 63. Those 20 incremental territories began selling in earnest in Q2. The last driver I'll mention is we're continuing to expand our pharmacy channel presence, enabling more people with diabetes to access insulin pump therapy with minimal to no upfront out-of-pocket costs. What I hope you all take away from this is that we're positioning Beta Bionics core business for success today and tomorrow. All while making key advances in our innovation pipeline, which I'm excited to share with you in more detail later on during the call.
But for now, I'll hand the call over to Stephen to provide some additional color on our second quarter results and discuss our increased full-year guidance for 2025. Stephen?
Stephen Feider: Thanks, Sean. Approximately 71% of our 4,934 new patient starts in Q2 came from people with diabetes that used multiple daily injections prior to starting the islet. We look at this metric because it's an important representation of how much the islet is expanding the market for insulin pumps. And the results we're seeing reinforce our confidence that the islet is addressing an unmet need in the market. Let's talk about pharmacy. In Q2, a high twenties percentage of our new patients starts were reimbursed through the pharmacy channel. We're continuing to see great traction from our pay-as-you-go model from PBMs, and the underlying health plans that partner with those PBMs. Turning now to gross margin.
In Q2, our gross margin was 53.8%, up slightly compared to 53.7% in 2024. While gross margin may look very similar between Q2 of this year and Q2 of the prior year, there are two points I'd like to highlight that are indicative of healthy underlying gross margin dynamics. The first to highlight is related to pharmacy. As we've discussed extensively in prior earnings calls, increasing our pharmacy mix is financially accretive over the medium and long term because we are reimbursed for the monthly supplies at a higher rate than in the DME channel.
However, in the pharmacy channel, we forego the upfront payment for the pump itself that we would have received if the pump went through the DME channel. This creates two dynamics. Number one, when we increase the percentage of new patient starts going through the pharmacy in any given quarter, the upfront revenue for the pump that we forego creates a transitory headwind for our revenue and gross margin in that quarter. Number two is our existing pharmacy installed base generates substantially more revenue per month versus the DME channel. Coming back now to Q2's gross margin.
We saw a substantial uptick in the percentage of new patient starts going through the pharmacy in Q2 of this year relative to the prior year. That creates a headwind for revenue and gross margin this quarter, but is great for the business over the medium and long term. In parallel to that, our pharmacy installed base at the end of 2025 was over seven times the size of our pharmacy installed base at the end of 2024.
Over time, as our mix of new patient starts continues to shift to the pharmacy, we believe the high gross margin recurring revenue generated from our existing pharmacy installed base will overpower the near-term headwinds we experience from new patient starts going through the pharmacy channel. Stated differently, in the near future, we expect the pharmacy channel's gross margin will consistently outperform the DME channel's gross margin. The second point that is indicative of healthy underlying gross margin dynamics is manufacturing volume leverage. As production volumes increased in Q2 of the prior year, we benefited from lower per-unit costs driven by a reduced bill of materials and improved absorption of fixed manufacturing overhead.
So in summary, growth in new patient starts to the pharmacy channel caused year-over-year margin compression, which was offset by high-margin recurring revenue from a substantially larger pharmacy installed base and lower per-unit costs from manufacturing volume leverage. The pharmacy installed base and lower per-unit costs are both durable gross margin tailwinds going forward. Shifting now to operating expenses. Total operating expenses in the second quarter were $32.4 million, an increase of 63% compared to $19.9 million in 2024. The increase in sales and marketing expenses relative to the prior year was driven by the expansion of our field sales team, which now stands at 63 sales territories exiting Q2.
The increase in R&D expenses relative to the prior year is driven by the Mint and bihormonal projects. G&A expense increases relative to the prior year are driven by new costs related to operating as a public company. Let's move on to cash. As of 06/30/2025, we have approximately $281 million in cash, cash equivalents, and short and long-term investments. We remain confident in our ability to generate positive free cash flow at an earlier stage relative to our peer group's historical precedent. Here are a few reasons why. Number one, our device is designed to be manufactured efficiently, evidenced by our current gross margin profile.
Number two, our revenue model is shifting towards the pharmacy, which we are confident is financially accretive versus the DME channel over the medium and long term. And number three is our management team's track record of operational efficiency, which is evident in our operating margin at our scale relative to competitive precedents at a similar scale. We know that an efficient operator title is earned, not given, and we intend to earn the public's trust on that with each passing quarter. Now turning to our 2025 annual guidance. We are raising guidance across the board.
We now project that net sales for the full year of 2025 will be $88 million to $93 million, up from our prior guidance of $82 million to $87 million. We now expect 25% to 28% of our new patient starts to be reimbursed through the pharmacy channel versus our prior guidance of 22% to 25%. Allow me to remind you what the increase in pharmacy guidance means for revenue over the next four years. The raise from 23.5% to 26.5% new patient starts to pharmacy, which are the midpoints of our previous and updated guidance, are expected to generate a roughly $1 million headwind to 2025 revenue.
This roughly $1 million headwind is baked into our updated 2025 annual guidance of $88 to $93 million. From 2026 through 2028, we expect that same increase in pharmacy guidance to result in up to a $9 million tailwind to cumulative revenue assuming no attrition. Said a different way, a $1 million headwind in year one flips into a potential $9 million cumulative tailwind in years two through four. We accept that trade-off. In terms of how to think about the revenue cadence for the remainder of the year, we anticipate revenue in Q3 to be slightly higher than Q2, and revenue in Q4 to increase relative to Q3, which is seasonally typical in the diabetes industry.
For new patient starts, we expect Q3 new patient starts to be similar to Q2 and Q4 to increase relative to Q3. We expect the percentage of new patient starts reimbursed through the pharmacy in the second half of the year to increase relative to the high twenties percentage we saw in Q2.
That said, we expect the rate of pharmacy mix increase in the second half of the year won't be as pronounced as the large increases we saw in both Q1 and Q2, which were fueled in large part by the formulary agreement with Therapeutics that went into effect on February 1, and the strong adoption we saw from the underlying health plans that partner with Prime as their PBM.
While we now have an effective formulary agreement in place with all the major PBMs that operate in the US as of July 1, sales cycles of the underlying health plans that partner with each PBM are highly variable, depending on the specific PBM and the specific health plan that partners with that PBM. In the case of Prime, we saw immediate pull-through of the formulary agreement at the health plan level. For our more recent PBM agreement that became effective on July 1, we don't expect to see the immediate pull-through by the health plans that we saw with Prime. Moving on to gross margin.
We are raising our outlook to 52% to 55% gross margin for the full year 2025, versus our prior guidance of 50% to 53%. We are increasing guidance for a couple of reasons. Number one, embedded in our revenue guidance raise and pharmacy mix guidance raise, is a raise in our expectation for new patient starts, and that increased scale should generate a lower per-unit cost through manufacturing volume leverage. And number two, we expect to benefit from our growing pharmacy installed base, with a large bolus of new pharmacy users we onboarded in Q1 and Q2, which produces high-margin recurring revenue for the balance of the year.
So the takeaway here is that while the outperformance in pharmacy is a headwind to our gross margin outlook for the year, we expect to be able to more than offset that headwind, and we are raising guidance as a result. In terms of how to think about the gross margin cadence for the remainder of the year, we expect gross margin to increase slightly from Q2 to Q3 and again from Q3 to Q4. Regarding tariffs, I want to reiterate our prior commentary that custom components for the islet and its consumables are exempt from tariffs under the Nairobi protocol.
Overall, we expect the impact of tariffs on our business to be minimal, and their impact is contemplated in our updated gross margin guidance for the year. With that said, I'll hand the call now back to Sean to discuss the recent CMS proposal and our innovation pipeline. Sean?
Sean Saint: Thanks, Stephen. On June 30, CMS released a proposed rule for the 2026 durable medical equipment payment system, which includes provisions that may impact insulin pumps supplied to Medicare fee-for-service beneficiaries. To be clear, this proposal only applies directly to traditional Medicare fee-for-service, not Medicare Advantage, which is managed by private plans. Approximately 10% to 15% of our users are Medicare fee-for-service beneficiaries, so let's walk through the key components of the proposed rule and our perspective on them. There are two major elements in the proposal. First, CMS is proposing to implement a competitive bidding program for insulin pumps.
Under this program, DMEs would submit bids to supply insulin pumps, and CMS would set the reimbursement rate at the seventy-fifth percentile of the accepted bids. DMEs that bid above the price threshold set by CMS may be excluded from supplying pumps to Medicare fee-for-service beneficiaries in the bid geographic area. This is new for pumps and is designed to reduce overall cost to the system. Second, CMS is proposing a shift to a pay-as-you-go rental model for pumps, replacing the current model where CMS pays the DME supplier for the pump for a thirteen-month period, after which the patient owns the pump and CMS no longer pays for it.
Under the new model, CMS would pay DMEs a fixed amount each month for the pump for up to sixty months instead of just paying for the pump over the first thirteen months. This is designed to allow patients to switch pumps more easily and to shift attrition risk from CMS to the DMEs. In the new model, if the patient stops using the pump anytime during the sixty-month period, CMS no longer pays for it. Here's our view on the proposal. We support CMS's intent to modernize payment models in a way that better supports people living with diabetes. We believe the competitive bidding may undermine that goal.
The Medicare fee-for-service channel is already the most financially challenging for both pump manufacturers who sell insulin pumps and supplies to DMEs, and the DMEs who distribute those pumps and supplies to patients and collect reimbursement from CMS. The reimbursement amount from CMS is what DMEs would be bidding on if competitive bidding is implemented. In the proposal, CMS is capping the maximum allowable bid at approximately $206 per month. We believe this cap represents a single-digit percentage reimbursement cut relative to what DMEs currently receive from CMS today on a normalized basis across sixty months.
We believe that cap was calculated using lower monthly infusion set and usage assumptions than what users actually require each month, and we encourage CMS to correct this in the final rule. Whether or not the proposed cap stands, we do not anticipate any material financial impact on our business as we are not directly affected by the change. In the unlikely scenario, the DMEs face price compression at or beyond the proposed cap, that could force manufacturers or DMEs to withdraw from the Medicare fee-for-service channel in certain regions, thereby limiting patient access and choice, which is not what CMS intended with the proposed rule.
Regarding the proposed shift to a pay-as-you-go rental model for pumps, we agree with CMS's intent to align reimbursement with the actual therapy use. We were the first durable pump company to implement a pay-as-you-go model to the pharmacy channel. That said, applying this model to the DME channel introduces significant logistical complexity. Insulin pumps are personalized medical devices that are not designed for refurbishment and reuse in the way other DME categories might be. If CMS decides to finalize this model, we'll work with our DME partners to explore safe refurbishment arrangements for our customers and find a path forward financially that ensures our DME partners can continue to supply the channel.
While it's too early to say what that arrangement will look like, we see the shift to pay-as-you-go as a net tailwind for the business. Let me walk you through that thinking. This would be a pretty extreme scenario. But if we hypothetically align the way we receive payments from DMEs to the way DMEs would receive payments from CMS, in a pay-as-you-go model, we would expect that change in revenue recognition to result in a single-digit percentage headwind to our overall revenue in year one, followed by a single-digit percentage tailwind to our revenue in each of years two through five. And cumulatively, it would not materially impact the amount of revenue we recognize over that five-year period.
So how does that become a tailwind? Two reasons. Number one, the same way we see the pharmacy pay-as-you-go model reduce upfront out-of-pocket costs that patients spend on an insulin pump, a pay-as-you-go model in the DME channel could have that same effect. This could increase overall pump adoption by Medicare fee-for-service beneficiaries. Number two, by enabling patients to switch more easily between pumps, we believe that benefits a market newcomer with a smaller installed base, rather than incumbents who have more to lose. Plus, easier ability to switch pumps would help a differentiated product like islet gain more share.
So to summarize our view of the CMS proposal, we don't expect to see any material revenue impact from competitive bidding. We expect the potential shift to pay-as-you-go will create tailwinds for the business. And we're ready to adapt with our DME partners to ensure our customers are taken care of. We'll keep you updated as the rule progresses. We anticipate the comment period to close in early September, with a final ruling from CMS in early November.
Stephen Feider: Now let's dig into our innovation pipeline.
Sean Saint: Our goal with our pipeline programs is simple. Disrupt the industry, and disrupt ourselves. At our recent investor and analyst day in June, we unveiled Mint, our patch pump in development, and provided a live demonstration of its features and the patch change process. Mint is being designed to marry the best aspects of fully disposable and partially disposable patch architectures. And every decision we made in the design of the product is centered around the user experience. We believe the Mint wear experience will fit well into a user's everyday life. Mint is being designed so that users won't need their phone to change a Mint.
Users won't ever need to charge a Mint, and users won't need to remove a Mint when they swim or shower. The four and a half millimeter steel cannula is being designed to feel very similar to an insulin pen, which we expect will minimize discomfort during cannula insertion. Said differently, we're seeking to provide a patching experience that aligns well with what patch wearers are already used to and love while also improving upon that experience where we see opportunities to do so. Another great feature is that we expect to be able to roll out firmware over-the-air updates to the reusable controller.
So if a Mint user wants to switch to the latest and greatest CGM and we're integrated with that CGM, it can happen overnight. These expected features are what we believe will separate Mint from every other fully disposable or partially disposable patch, whether they're already on the market or still in development. This is what we mean when we say our architecture is intended to be the best of both worlds. We strongly believe that we've harnessed the best aspects of both one-piece and two-piece architectures all in the name of user experience. Add this to our industry-leading algorithm, and we believe Mint will be a game-changer when it launches.
In Q2, we continued to advance Mint rapidly towards our goal of commercialization by 2027, which we are reiterating as our target, and we remain highly confident in achieving it. Shifting to our bihormonal pump program, in July, we completed dosing for our shelf-stable pump-compatible glucagon candidate's pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic or PKPD bridging study. As a reminder, the trial is intended to enable us to bridge all of our previous bihormonal clinical data, including three pre-pivotal inpatient and six pre-pivotal outpatient trials, to our new formulation of glucagon. We expect to have full results from the PKPD study in 2025, which will inform our go-forward development strategy for our glucagon candidate.
Preliminary PD results are in line with our expectations and supportive of continued development of our glucagon candidate per our previously communicated development strategy. While the full PKPD data won't be publicly available, we expect to provide additional updates on the program and our development strategy during our Q3 earnings call. As of now, there is no change to the expectations that we'll conduct concurrent pivotal trials to fulfill the requirements for a 505(b)(2) NDA, a chronic drug indication for glucagon, and the ACE and IAGC 510(k)s, the pump and algorithm, respectively. I want to share a quick thought on the potential form factors for our bihormonal system.
In the past, our bihormonal form factor has been a durable pump with two channels in it, one for insulin and one for glucagon. That form factor seems very acceptable to users who have used it in formative clinical trials. And it's very similar in size to our insulin-only islet commercial launch hardware. However, with the addition of Mint technology to our pipeline, that opens up several doors to us. The bihormonal form factor could be a durable pump with two channels, it could also be the color islet plus a Mint, or it could be two Mints, one dispensing insulin and the other dispensing glucagon.
We have the flexibility to choose, and while we won't call our shot today, we will spend significant time between now and launch investigating our users' preferences so we maximize the user experience of the bihormonal system. It is a core belief of Beta Bionics. However, that plays out, we continue to be extremely excited by the bihormonal program's ability to transform clinical outcomes for people with diabetes. But more importantly, the ability to transform the way people think about managing their diabetes as well as producing a larger lifetime customer value to Beta Bionics.
To briefly touch on the type 2 diabetes label expansion opportunity, in Q2, we continued to see some healthcare providers prescribe islet to their type 2 patients off-label. We estimate that over 25% of our new patient starts in the quarter were from type 2. While we're not committing to a specific timeline, we look forward to pursuing the type 2 diabetes label through the FDA. We covered lots of ground on today's call, so I want to leave you all with a few of the key points that we hope you take away from our remarks.
The islet is continuing to see excellent traction in the market, and we're building the right team and the right tools around it to expand its reach and transform the way people with diabetes, their loved ones, and their healthcare providers manage diabetes. Q2 was an excellent quarter for our business, and we're proud of the results we delivered that also enable us to raise our full-year 2025 guidance. We're confident that our business can overcome any challenges thrown its way, whether that's tariffs, policy changes that impact our partners, or new entrants into the market. We're building the most innovative pipeline in the industry with the aim of disrupting the industry and ourselves.
And we remain as confident as ever in our ability to deliver those innovations to the people with diabetes who need them. This is a business that is set up for sustainable success today and tomorrow. And we're excited to continue sharing updates with you all as we continue to execute against our mission. With that, operator, please open the call for Q&A.
Operator: Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press 11 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. If you would like to remove yourself from the queue, press 11 again. We also ask that you wait for your name and company to be announced before proceeding with your question. Our first question will be coming from the line of Matthew O'Brien of Piper Sandler. Your line is open.
Matthew O'Brien: Great. Thanks so much for taking the questions. And really nice quarter across the board here, everyone. So congrats on that. I did want to ask about a couple of things that might get a little bit of attention here from investors. The first thing on the pricing side, it looks like the DME ASPs are quite strong in the quarter, but the pharmacy looked like it's a little bit below what I might have been modeling. So is there anything going on in the pharmacy channel specifically on the pricing side of note that we should really be thinking about? And then I do have a follow-up.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. So, Matt, are you talking specifically about the islet pharmacy price or the monthly supply kit ASP or both? Both. But more so on the supply kit side. Yeah. Okay. So on the islet in the pharmacy channel, you did see a downtick. So I'm gonna comment on both. And the first one is on the islet in the pharmacy channel. You did see a downtick in the ASP for that particular channel because we're seeing more adoption from PBMs, which is evidenced by the uptick in the pharmacy new patient percentage of new patient starts. And when that happens, we no longer rebate the or sorry.
We then issue a rebate for the islet, and the ASP in that particular channel then goes down over time. And so you have seen that. That again is indicative of the success that we're having in winning new patient starts and getting more traction in the pharmacy channel with, again, more PBM adoption and more underlying health plan adoption. There actually isn't anything. And moving to the pharmacy supply kits, there's actually nothing about the ASP changing from Q1 to Q2. There is some stocking dynamic that was present in Q2 relative to Q1. That dynamic is probably what's contributing to your numbers there, Matt.
Matthew O'Brien: Got it. Okay. That's good to hear. And then the other piece is just on the churn rate. Looks like it was about 5% in the quarter based on my math, which God knows that could be wrong. But I just want to make sure the numbers are about right there. And then just anything you would call out on the churn side that might be a little higher or lower DME or pharmacy? Specifically, pharmacy, are you seeing a little higher churn rate through that channel? Thanks.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. So while I can appreciate that churn rate or the attrition rate that we have in the pharmacy channel in particular has a ton of impact on your model, and by the way, it's something that we monitor very closely at Beta Bionics. For reasons that are simple, as the industry doesn't or the diabetes industry doesn't report on attrition rates, Beta Bionics is not going to be the first pump company that does. So, again, I understand that it's an important metric that you have in your model, but it's not something that we're commenting on.
Here's what I will say in principle, though, that I think highlights why we have a lot of confidence in our attrition rate or in our retention rate, I guess, to use a more positive connotation. Every single patient that we can send to the pharmacy channel we do. So, how this works logistically is when Beta Bionics gets a prescription for the islet, we check to see if the patient is covered in pharmacy. And if they are, we send that patient in. If they're not, we send them through DME.
What that's really indicative of is that we now, because we know what our retention rate is, the pharmacy channel, we know that it's the most advantaged channel for us financially, which is why we send every patient there that we can. So I'll just again, make that point to emphasize that despite us not communicating our retention or attrition rates numerically, they're very good, and it's why we continue to prioritize pharmacy over DME.
Matthew O'Brien: Got it. Makes sense. Thanks so much.
Stephen Feider: Thanks, Matt.
Operator: Thank you. And our next question will be coming from the line of Travis Steed of Bank of America. Your line is open.
Stephanie Piazzolla: Hey. This is Stephanie Piazzolla on for Travis. Thanks for taking the question and congrats. Maybe just wanted to start out by asking about the guidance. You'd be Q2 by almost $4 million and are raising the guide by $6 million at the midpoint. So maybe just talk about some of the drivers of that increased outlook in the back half of the year and the confidence in those. And then you gave some quarterly cadence commentary, which was helpful. But maybe if you could elaborate a little bit on the underlying assumptions of the Q3 revenue being higher than Q2 and the Q3 new patient start similar to Q2.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Sure. So there's a lot in there. The first question you asked is about why do we have confidence in our guidance for the rest of the year. And, you know, we're raising guidance not just by the amount that we beat in Q2. So my first statement I'll say is we have a high degree of confidence in every bit of guidance that we communicate. So, you know, our revenue guidance for the remainder of 2025 is no different. As it relates to the Q3 new patient starts guidance and the revenue outlook for the rest of the year. I think kind of embedded in your question there, Stephanie, is you're asking, okay.
So why are you forecasting or why are you guiding to a flat new patient start number? When, you know, we're also expecting revenue to grow in the company's grown quarter over quarter. So I guess I'll answer that when I give three reasons for that. The first one is in diabetes, as you're aware, seasonally, we tend to see Q1 being the weakest quarter relative to the other quarters throughout the year and then Q4 being seasonally the best quarter. Whereas Q2 and Q3 tend to be kind of flat or neutral relative to one another. So there's nothing that we're noting about Q3 seasonality in our guidance.
The second is that Q2 was a very strong quarter, which is part of the reason why, you know, for the flat new patient start guidance in Q3. And then the last point, the third point is just a reiteration of what I said actually to start my answer here, which is that anytime we do give guidance, we set it at a level that we have a higher degree of confidence in our ability to achieve. And that new patient starts number is no exception.
Stephanie Piazzolla: Thank you. That's helpful. And then I just wanted to follow-up on the CMS home health proposal for 2026. And maybe if you could just talk about some of the next steps as part of the process. And, I guess, a bit more on the expected timing of how long it could take for some of the things in the proposal to be implemented. Thank you.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Sure. So, yeah, the next steps are CMS will receive comments from companies, DME distributors, in particular to the insulin pump industry. They'll see comments from companies like Beta Bionics as well as DME distributors. I think it's by the August is when those particular proposals or early September, I think, is when those responses are due. So that'll happen, and then CMS will put together whether or not they choose to move forward with the proposal, and, you know, implement if they do implement the competitive bidding process, and then ultimately make a ruling sometime in the future for when the new policy would be enacted. And our expectation is the earliest that would be 2027.
Operator: Thank you. And our next question will be coming from the line of Michael Pollock of Wolfe Research. Your line is open.
Michael Pollock: Hey. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking the question. I'm interested in a generic comment on kind of same-store, new-store dynamics as you assess the sequential growth in starts. To what much would you attribute to kind of increased penetration with existing prescribers versus the sign-up of new prescribers?
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Hey, Mike. Good question. Not gonna love my answer because I'm not gonna answer it numerically. But we're actually seeing the dynamic of both happening. So we did expand our field sales team relative to this time last year. So there is an element of new territories where, you know, Beta Bionics' field sales presence was before this new expansion still had a lot of white space throughout the country. So, like, it's areas that had no field sales presence at all. So there is a new store dynamic as a result of that. But we are seeing, across the board, an uptick in prescriber adoption within territories that we already do operate in.
And, you know, again, we do quantify these things, but they're not KPIs that we communicate externally. But, yeah, absolutely. The message of islet simplicity is resonating. HCPs are seeing good results from their patients and becoming more comfortable prescribing the islet, and I think that's evidenced by our results. So the dynamic is that actually both, Mike, but I'm not gonna quantify them for you.
Michael Pollock: Understood. Thank you. If I can follow-up, I appreciate all the comments on the Medicare proposal. I know the response to this one will probably lean squish, but to the extent this moves forward substantially, as envisioned, and I'm talking specifically about the shift to pay over time, to what extent would this Medicare fee-for-service standard create risk that the commercial DME or Medicare Advantage contracts over time head in this direction as well? How do you assess that path? Thank you.
Sean Saint: Yeah. Good question. Look. Nowhere in that proposal does it mention anything of that nature. And we don't see any associated risk from this particular proposal stemming into commercial plans or within the pharmacy model. I will just highlight that a pay-as-you-go model, like, that's being proposed here in the CMS proposal, which is what this rental model is. As Sean, I think, well outlined in the prepared remarks, that's working quite well already in the pharmacy system. Where Beta Bionics even, you know, and all patch pumps are getting reimbursed through, well, I guess in the case of patch pumps, they're Medicare Part D coverage, which Beta Bionics is or our islet is not.
But we're already seeing in managed Medicare coverage for the islet through a pay-as-you-go model that exists in pharmacy. And so I think in the event that the CMS wanted to shift to a pay-as-you-go model into the pharmacy channel, they would use an already existing infrastructure that's already in place today. So, you know, I guess, twofold to that answer, Mike.
Sean Saint: I think I'd like to add to that one, Stephen. You know, it's very hard for us to assess the risk of that happening. But I think, you know, what we've done is insulate ourselves from it with our preexisting transfer to a pay-as-you-go model proactively. There are reasons that it makes a ton of sense and makes a lot of sense for us as well. And, again, we're already doing that, proactively. So can't speak so much to the risk of it, but I will say that we're preparing ourselves properly for it if it were ever to happen.
Michael Pollock: Understood. I follow. Thank you.
Stephen Feider: Yep.
Operator: Thank you. One moment. And the next question will be coming from the line of David Roman of Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Phil: Hi. Good afternoon. This is Phil on for David. Thanks for taking the questions. I thought I'd start with the type two comments that you ended with, Sean. Stronger contributor as a percentage of new patient starts with a much stronger new patient start number overall. I was just hoping you could talk a bit more about the market dynamics going on there, the success that you're having, albeit off-label, and what would kind of act as a trigger or what we'd need to hear for a bigger push towards type two.
Sean Saint: Yeah. It's a great question, Phil. I think what I'll say, you know, given that islet obviously is off-label in that regard, I'm gonna make comments. I'm gonna keep my comments more general in terms of how physicians run their practices. I think it's a true statement that physicians are responsible for understanding the different tools they have available to them and where they can best be used and what they do and with whom. And prescribe them as they see fit. And that's why the off-label rules are as they are. They have every right to do that.
You know, I don't want to get into the specifics of islet, but I think that's clearly being taken into account in the prescribing patterns that we're seeing. As the awareness of islet generally and of other products becomes, you know, more broadly known. So sorry for the slightly vague answer, but yeah. Type two.
Phil: No. I think that's helpful. Thanks. The second one's probably for Stephen. It's a different way of the guidance question, and appreciate that pharmacy mix in a given quarter will matter to this question. But given the growing proportion of recurring revenue that's coming in, it is gonna be the case in this revenue ramp period that if you see a sequential increase in patients, there should be even more so a sequential ramp in revenue to accompany that. Right? Because you have the pump revenue as a supplement to a growing base of recurring revenue.
I guess, said differently, do you have better visibility moving forward into the guidance assumptions you're giving because of the relative scale of the recurring versus one-time only revenue over time here?
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Great question. Both answers are yes. Yes. We see upticks in our revenue if we had flat new patient starts quarter over quarter because we have this powerful install base that's generating recurring revenue in the pharmacy channel. And, yes, our business is more predictable if a higher percentage of our revenue is coming from pharmacy because that's a recurring revenue stream.
Phil: Okay. Great. Just one clarifying one. The pay-as-you-go model, just from a timing standpoint, could go into effect in '26 while the comment on the competitive bidding process not going into place was '27. Right?
Stephen Feider: No, actually. We would imagine that the competitive bidding process would end up dictating the rental or that would end up being a prereq for the rental model going into place. And so my comment on when we expect 2027 being the earliest we would expect this to go into adoption, it means the policy in its totality. Competitive bidding which then leads to a rental model. And then that actually starts selling through that rental model in 2027 at the earliest.
Phil: Okay. Understood. So that's very speculative, but that's what we think.
Stephen Feider: Okay. Alright. That's helpful. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. And our next question will come from the line of Frank Tatikin of Lake Street. Your line is open.
Frank Tatikin: Great. Thanks for taking the questions. Congrats on the great quarter and the increased guidance. I wanted to start with one more on Type 2s, and I appreciate the sensitivities given it's off-label. But with how good that number has been trending, I was hoping you could help us understand a little bit more maybe where that strength is coming from. Is that the primary care channel? Is that the patient group using the pharmacy benefit channel more? Or anything else specific to call out that has increased the use in that channel?
Stephen Feider: Oh, yeah. Okay. So hey, Frank. We have to be a little careful here as we don't have a type two label. So I don't want to sound like we're promoting the islet for type two use, and I would just reiterate what Sean said about, you know, doctors have the ability to prescribe what they want. So I'm not gonna answer your question too thoroughly, but yes, absolutely, the islet is where when it is being adopted for type two patients, it's happening in both the primary care channel as well as the endo channel similar to how the islet is, frankly, today.
Frank Tatikin: Okay. That's helpful. Understood. And then just secondly, maybe an update on Salesforce hiring. Appreciate the color and update you guys provided today, but maybe talk about kind of Salesforce hiring expectations.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. So we started the year with 43 sales territories. We ended the year with 60 or we ended the first quarter with 63 sales territories, and we still ended this quarter with 63 sales territories. You're not gonna see a massive uptick in our territory expansion for the remainder of the year. We will likely expand again in early next year.
Frank Tatikin: Okay. Thanks for taking the questions.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Thanks, Frank. Good questions.
Operator: Thank you. And our next question will come from the line of Jeff Johnson of Baird. Your line is open.
Jeff Johnson: Thank you. Good afternoon, guys. I think she said Jeff. I hope you're hearing me okay here.
Stephen Feider: You got it. Yep.
Jeff Johnson: Alright. Great. Hey, guys. Hey. Just maybe one clarifying question. You know, you talked about maybe that pharmacy channel mix, not increasing at the same rate in the back half of the year as we saw in the first half of the year. Part of that due just to the strong uptake you saw through the prime contracts started in February. As you have expanded, you know, access through additional payers here, why is the prime contract different maybe than some of those other payers?
Or said another way, if you're pushing as many of your patients who do have pharmacy coverage into the pharmacy channel, why can't that rate of push and kind of that rate of adoption continue to move in the same sequential kind of pattern? Thanks.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Good really good question. Okay. So the prime deal is quite different than what we've seen with other PBM contracts in that when we so let me actually, I'm gonna back up one second. To gain pharmacy coverage and the way that we define coverage is new patient starts going through the pharmacy channel. There's two really important steps that have to happen in order for us to obtain that coverage. The first one is we need the PBM agreement. And then the second is we need the underlying health plans that partner with that PBM. In the case of prime, both step one and two happened at the same time.
In the case of the other PBM agreements, and notably the one that Sean brought up in his prepared remarks that will go into effect, the large PBM agreement that goes into effect on July 1, that is not the case. Step one happened, but the underlying agreements with the health plans are a separate sales cycle that we need to go in and then add at future dates.
Now, for the other PBM contracts that we have that are already in place and have been historically, we continue to tick off underlying health plans that are a part of that step two, which is part of the reason you see the sequential uptick that we've had historically in pharmacy adoption. It's not just because of the prime deal that we had in the first half of the year, but also the other PBMs we continue to layer on more and more underlying health plans.
Jeff Johnson: Alright. That's helpful. That explains it. And then just one other question, I guess, on the competitive bidding and the pay-as-you-go model. One of your competitors out there is talking about potentially as a two-pump getting in Medicare Part D. You guys obviously on the pharmacy channel are kind of taking a monthly on the PBM side. What would it take? Is there any possible way to get into Part D as opposed to Part B? And does your read of the documents, of the CMS documents suggest that Part D will not be subject to competitive bidding? That was our read, but I think there's a couple of varied opinions on some of the wording in that document.
Thank you.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. So what would it take? We've always said that the longest train or the, you know, the big train to turn in order for durable insulin pumps to start becoming reimbursed primarily through the pharmacy channel was Medicare Part D treatment, which today, durable but for those that aren't aware, the islet and durable insulin pumps are considered Part B covered. Jeff, frankly, I don't really want to predict when that train turns, and we start seeing durable insulin pumps be considered Part D treatment. I don't really want to predict.
I think this does maybe start the discussion and maybe move it faster than it otherwise had been because it's clear that CMS is interested in a pay-as-you-go model, which is what the pharmacy channel really enables. But I still do think that there's nothing and so but I don't really want to give a timeline to predict when that happens. I also, by the way, which leads me to actually do your second question, nowhere in that proposal does it mention anything about Part D or insulin pumps, you know, notably patch pumps that are considered Part D treatment. It doesn't mention them at all in that proposal.
So I would have no reason to believe that the proposal is insinuating anything about patch pumps or any Part D treatment insulin delivery device because, frankly, I just don't mention it at all.
Jeff Johnson: Understood. Higher level conversation or comments on that, Jeff.
Sean Saint: I think we have two concepts here, and they overlap they're not the same thing. But they are related. The first is durable versus patch pumps or durable versus disposables if you prefer. We've all come to know and understand what that means. However, there's also the concept of a durable pump model, meaning an upfront payment followed by a smaller supply payment, versus a pay-as-you-go model, traditionally applied to a disposable system, and that makes all sense in the world.
So I think what I'm saying is that as durable pumps get paid more in a pay-as-you-go model, the specific distinction of a durable versus disposable device starts to not matter because that's not really what they were getting at originally. Right? These, the reasons for these statements have evolved over time. The pay-as-you-go model is the original definition of that, I believe. But so what does that mean? I don't know. We'll have to wait and see.
Jeff Johnson: Fair enough. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. One moment for the next question. And the next question will be coming from the line of Richard Newitter of Truist. Your line is open.
Felipe: Hey. This is Felipe on for Rich. I guess just like, off the last point, I was wondering if you can just help us better understand, in terms of new starts, just your presence in pharmacy is a lot larger compared to some of your durable pump competitors. So I'm just wondering, like, is removing that upfront cost maybe a decision driver for new MDI patients thinking about starting on durable pumps? And then just one follow-up.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Absolutely. If you were to ask me a question why are we seeing such an uptick in new patient starts? Why do we continue to exceed expectation or even our own expectations on new patient starts? I would give you two reasons. One is the islet is absolutely resonating for its highly differentiated characteristics, meaning it's simple to use. The clinical results are fantastic. So as doctors try it, they get great results, and they prescribe more of it. So really simple.
But the other dynamic is that, absolutely, the pharmacy coverage or the availability of the pharmacy reimbursement model for patients makes it so dramatically easier for a patient to purchase the islet either to switch from their other durable pump, by the way, because they're not locked into a four-year warranty period, or just simply because the out-of-pocket is so much less than it would be for the islet and DME, that it does create a tailwind for new patient starts, and that's a large driver of our new patient start success.
Felipe: And then just on the gross margin guidance, you're upping your pharmacy contribution. So I'm just wondering, like, what's the main driver of bringing your gross margin guidance higher with that headwind?
Stephen Feider: Yeah. We continue to see benefit from a lower cost per unit with scale. And so we just we have a really strong sense of what's what our cost per unit's gonna be for the remainder of the year and confidence in our ability to continue to increase it. Thanks.
Operator: And our next question will be coming from the line of Jeffrey Cohen of Ladenburg Thalmann. Your line is open.
Jeffrey Cohen: Oh, hi, Sean. It's Steven. Just one from our standpoint. You talked about the field sales reps and territory coverage. When you think about the back half, could you kind of walk us through how you may expect the OpEx to look as it relates to Q3 and Q4 relative to the first half?
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Sure. So with G&A expenses and sales and marketing expenses, you won't see a big uptick in OpEx the rest of this year in Q3 or in Q4. With R&D, you may see an uptick in Q3 and Q4 associated with the Mint program as well as the bihormonal project. So, again, we'll get we'll start to get more and more leverage out of our sales and marketing costs as well as the G&A costs, but there'll be some lumpiness to bihormonal or as a result of bihormonal and the Mint projects.
Jeffrey Cohen: Okay. Got it. As it looks over the next two to six quarters, would you expect the R&D to be lumpy?
Stephen Feider: Yes.
Jeffrey Cohen: Got it. Okay. That does it for us. Thanks. Nice readout to the quarter.
Stephen Feider: Yeah. Appreciate it. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Jeff.
Operator: Thank you so much. There are no more questions in the queue. And that does conclude the presentation for today. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.