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Rithm Capital (RITM 2.52%) Q1 2026 Earnings Call Transcript

DATE

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 at 8 a.m. ET

CALL PARTICIPANTS

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer — Michael Nierenberg
President — Baron Silverstein
Chief Financial Officer — Nicola Santoro
Elicor Properties Senior Leadership — Peter Brindley

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TAKEAWAYS

Earnings per share -- $0.51 per diluted share, with $28.6 million in earnings and a 17% return on equity.
GAAP net income -- $57.8 million, $0.12 per diluted share, and a 4% return on equity, attributed to portfolio hedging activity.
Book value -- $12.51 per share or $7 billion, reflecting quarter-over-quarter growth after a $0.25 per share dividend payment.
Quarterly dividend -- $0.25 per common share, yielding 10.5%.
Liquidity -- $1.3 billion at quarter end.
Securitization activity -- $2 billion completed during the quarter, focused on non-QM assets.
Third-party managed assets -- $60 billion, with total assets exceeding $110 billion across the platform.
Corporate credit/ABF investment -- Over $2 billion deployed, including new ABF investments and $1 billion committed to Real Estate Fund V.
Asset management business -- Sculptor ended the quarter at $37 billion AUM with $600 million gross inflows; Crestline reported AUM near $20 billion and 16% management fee revenue growth year over year.
Genesis Capital production -- $1.6 billion in lending, adding 118 new sponsors; EBITDA guided between $150 million and $175 million for the year.
Mortgage servicing portfolio -- $850 billion UPB serviced, including $15.5 billion third-party funded volume; Newrez delivered $274 million pretax income and 19% operating ROE.
Direct origination channels -- Comprised 37% of funded volume for Newrez, up 75% year over year in the first quarter.
Average in-place rent -- Elicor Properties reported $90 per square foot with an 85.7% leased rate and weighted average lease term of 8.4 years.
Leasing activity -- More than 360,000 square feet executed or pending year to date across Elicor's New York and San Francisco portfolios; initial rents of $94.64 per square foot are 14.9% above the previous year's average.
New York portfolio leased rate -- 92.1% at share, representing an increase of 470 basis points year over year.
San Francisco portfolio leased rate -- 59.1% at share, with approximately 280,000 square feet leased or pending year to date, equating to 70% of 2025’s leasing velocity within the first quarter.
Operating efficiencies -- Elicor created an estimated $40 million increase in annual management company EBITDA since the Paramount acquisition.
Cost reduction at Newrez -- Projecting a 15% further reduction in cost per loan from current run rate, where existing cost per loan is already nearly half of industry average.
Third-party servicing growth -- Five new clients and $22 billion in new loan boarding on the Newrez platform.
Planned annual expense savings -- Newrez expects $65 million in reductions and a direct cost per loan reduction of 15% to $93 after transition to the Valin AI-native servicing platform.
Asset allocation -- $3 billion invested in mortgage assets during the quarter, including $1.4 billion in non-QM loans and $1.6 billion in RTLs; $140 million of home improvement loans purchased under the upgrade agreement.

RISKS

Genesis Capital's year-to-date new origination yields declined to 9.5% from 10.1% in the fourth quarter, reflecting increased competition and tighter spreads.
Management noted, "I'm a little bit nervous... you have to watch out for, I think, overall, the state of the consumer," citing concerns about consumer sentiment and potential impacts on the build-to-rent space.
Depreciation expenses are expected to decrease to $60 million-$65 million quarterly as the single-family rental portfolio is sold down, but current levels are elevated due to the indoor portfolio.
Competitive pressures continue to affect gain-on-sale margins in Newrez's origination business, with management maintaining pricing discipline rather than chasing market share.

SUMMARY

Rithm Capital (RITM 2.52%) rebranded its acquired Paramount portfolio as Elicor, reporting operational integration and new identity initiatives aimed at driving portfolio value. Management emphasized a capital deployment strategy focused on third-party asset management and asset-based finance, with asset management fee revenue and AUM scaling across both Sculptor and Crestline platforms. Elicor’s leasing fundamentals improved, particularly in New York City and San Francisco, driven by AI-sector demand and targeted capital improvements. Newrez advanced operational efficiencies with AI technology rollout and pursuit of substantial cost reductions, while Genesis Capital guided for increased multifamily focus as market conditions pressured certain build-to-rent segments. Book value per share, liquidity, and dividend metrics provided an updated capital position distinct from prior periods.

CEO Michael Nierenberg stated, "We're not going to sacrifice credit for AUM growth," emphasizing underwriting discipline amid competitive lending environments.
Subsequent to quarter end, Elicor secured a CMBS refinancing for 1325 Avenue of the Americas and commenced further refinancing initiatives to manage maturity profiles.
The company highlighted fundraising momentum, citing $4.6 billion raised in the latest Sculptor real estate fund and ongoing capital formation for new evergreen and ABF strategies.
Asset management results indicated ongoing performance-led capital raising and international expansion of limited partner relationships.
Management aims to simplify the corporate story by increasing free cash flow from asset management and considering public carve-outs or third-party partnerships for certain operating segments.
Genesis Capital will grow multifamily lending as single-family rental commitments pause; year-to-date new origination yields declined to 9.5% from 10.1% in the fourth quarter.
Newrez reported gain-on-sale margin normalization linked to channel mix and competitive pressures while maintaining pricing discipline.
San Francisco office asset leasing momentum was noted as the strongest since 2019, with availability declining by 600 basis points year over year.
Depreciation expenses are expected to decrease to $60 million-$65 million quarterly as the single-family rental (indoor) portfolio is sold down.

INDUSTRY GLOSSARY

Non-QM: Non-qualified mortgage loans not meeting standard agency underwriting criteria, typically with alternative documentation or risk profiles.
ABF (Asset-Based Finance): Lending secured by physical or financial assets, including specialty loans not tied to unsecured cash flow.
MSR (Mortgage Servicing Rights): The contractual right to service a pool of mortgage loans, collecting payments and remitting funds to investors.
CMBS (Commercial Mortgage-Backed Securities): Securities backed by pools of commercial real estate loans, offering diversified cash flows from underlying properties.
RTL (Residential Transition Loan): Short-term loans for the purchase, renovation, or transition of residential properties, including bridge and construction financing.

Full Conference Call Transcript

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks, Emma, and good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us. I'm going to open my remarks and go a little bit into the credit markets for a minute and then we'll get into the supplement, which has been posted online. Baron Silverstein will cover the mortgage company. Peter Brindley will cover Elior, which was formerly known as Paramount, we rebranded the real estate company last night, and we're excited about that, and Peter has a lot of great stuff to discuss. So for the company, another solid quarter for our company, demonstrating the power of the franchise. Activity levels across the board were robust.

The firm, as we stand today, is extremely well positioned to take advantage of market dislocations as the combination of geopolitical risks and private credit headlines give us the opportunity to deploy more capital across the firm in both the ABF and credit space. As market participants pull back, this will play to our advantage. The majority of our capital in our asset management businesses with institutional partners. As a firm, the exposure we have to software remains low. It is important to note, we have not seen any notable DQs in our credit exposure across the firm. We do not see systemic risk in private credit.

From our seat, this is a sentiment-driven dislocation that will play into our ability to look for opportunities in the credit space. When you look at direct lending, 80% of direct lending sits in institutional drawdown funds. Systemic risk care will be contained. Large BDC portfolio is present in software. While saying that, defaults in the largest BDC and sponsors sit below the 5-year historical average of 1.1%. While saying all this, what's the opportunity for Sculptor and Crestline, we're structured to take advantage of dislocations. It's that simple. While saying all of this, when we think about dislocations, markets have rebounded. S&P is at all-time highs. Securitization markets remain robust, and there's lots of demand everywhere for ABS products.

During the quarter, we did $2 billion of securitization, and we see a consumer that remains healthy, particularly in our mortgage company as we look at the 4 million customers that we service. In our Paramount portfolio, which is, again, now called Delacour, leasing activities are excellent, and Peter will speak to that. New York City is now roughly 93% leased in San Francisco on fire as a result of the AI boom and the need for office. San Francisco saw the strongest quarter of activity since 2019 and before. Availability declined by 600 basis points year-over-year. On the Paramount portfolio, the team did a great job in '25.

They leased approximately 1.75 million square feet, 76% or 75% of the activity was in New York City with the rest in St France. So before I go into the supplement, I want to lay out Rithm our companies and how to think about us. As everybody knows, we started the company in the spring of 2013 at Fortress we started with $1 billion of permitting capital. And since then, we've created the following: $8 billion of permanent capital all raised in the public market, $110 billion plus of assets $60 billion managed for third parties. That's our asset management business.

We have a $50 billion balance sheet that not only supports our operating companies also supports our asset management business. We have 1 of the top 5 mortgage companies in the United States. We started that from scratch in 2018. We have 4 million customers, as I pointed out before. We own one of the top construction/residential transition lenders in the U.S. known as Genesis Capital. We're the fourth largest owner of office in New York City. And again, that's through the acquired Paramount Group, which once again was rebranded to core and we paid north of $6.5 billion of dividends. So what does all this mean? And where are we going?

We'll continue to lead with performance, grow relationships with our LPs. Perform as expected and do all we can to increase our value prop for our public equity holders. You heard it before, and you'll hear it again that some of the parts in our view, is much greater than a whole. Now I'll refer to the supplement, which has been posted online. I'm going to start on Page 3.

So when you look at the firm, we have really, what I would say, 5 core operating businesses or really Sculptor and Crestline, our 2 asset management divisions couldn't be more proud, I couldn't be more excited where we sit today with both of those very complementary strategies, different One is basin for worth, one is based in New York City, as you know, with global offices everywhere. Assets managed approximately $60 billion with more funds being raised daily. Eliqor, formerly known as Paramount, Class 8 owner-operator of offices in New York and San Francisco. Peter will talk to that business is doing great.

NewRez, our mortgage company, again, number three, in total unit service in the United States, including the large money center banks and a top 5 U.S. mortgage lender. Baron will speak to that. And then Genesis Capital which is our residential transitional lender. It's also a large multifamily originator, and I'll speak to that in a little bit. and then you have Rithm, which is obviously in the investment portfolio and at the REIT level. Page 4 for the quarter, what I would say is, as expected, $0.51 per diluted share when you look at our $28.6 million in earnings, 17% return on equity.

GAAP net income is always going to be noisy due to hedges moving in and out as we hedge up our MSR portfolios. $57.8 million of GAAP net income, $0.12 per diluted share and a 4% return on equity. Book value, we ended the quarter at $7 billion or $12.51 and -- when you think about it, we paid $0.25 in dividends, effectively, we've grown book value quarter-over-quarter net-net. And that's truly a testament to our team as we think about the macro strategy and the markets in general. Dividend yield, 10.5%, $0.25 per common share in cash and liquidity, we ended the quarter at approximately $1.3 billion.

When you look at the quarter end review and we think about Rithm as and management, which is the so-called parent -- we deployed over $2 billion in corporate credit, ABF investments over and in ABF investments -- in the scope to Real Estate Fund V, they've committed $1 billion in the first quarter loan in 2026. Keep in mind, coming off a great successful fundraise of $4.6 billion on their latest fund. Great brand, great track record and a great business for us.

Sculptor had gross inflows of $600 million, ending the quarter with $37 billion of -- when you look at Crestline, overall performance terrific, outperforming our initial underwriting, grew management fee revenue by 16% year-over-year in the first quarter of 26%, and we'll continue to grow that business as we see the opportunities in the credit space. Genesis Capital, when you look to the bottom left, best quarter in history Keep in mind on this business, we bought from Goldman in '22. At the time we bought this business, they were doing $1.7 billion of total loans for the entire year. So we did $1.6 billion in the first quarter. We added 118 new sponsors.

P&L looks great and credit performance remains strong. We will not sacrifice production for credit, so we're on the same page. Newrez mortgage -- mortgage company servicing portfolio ended the quarter approximately $850 billion. That includes third-party funded volume of $15.5 billion, generated $274 million of pretax income with a 19% annualized operating ROE in the first quarter. And then on the investment portfolio, robust run our non-QM business. We originate quite a bit there in the mortgage company. We did $2 billion securitization.

During the quarter, we invested $3 billion in different mortgage assets that includes non-QM and residential transition loans, and we also purchased $140 million of home improvement loans under our flow agreement with upgrade in the total purchase since Q3 to $667 million. When we are looking at the platform again [indiscernible] we're growing areas where we means will add teams, not businesses because we're extremely happy where we sit between Sculptor Crestline and now known as LCR as we grow our real estate presence. So when you look across the board, where everything in credit, where everything in the multi-strat business, on the real estate side, there's roughly $11 billion of AUM in the house.

And in asset-based finance, I would expect us to grow that significantly with our third-party partners globally. When you look at the sculpture business on Page 8, again, we couldn't be more happy where we sit today. We're 2.5 years in total AUM $37 billion, most importantly, performance. We are going to lead with performance. We're not going to leave with AUM. We have a fundamental belief that you could only deploy so much capital into the markets when the markets give you the ability to create, what I would call, alpha or outsized returns. That's how we view the business.

So while all of us want to grow AUM, we need to lead with performance first, going to be more proud of the team could have been more proud of the business and really excited where that business is going to go. Crestline, Arena Asset Management business, which we closed on in December of 25 and total AUM rough a little under $20 billion, a ton of investors across the platform. I was just in Tokyo 1.5 weeks ago meeting with both Crestline and Sculpture investors at a conference -- in Asia or in Tokyo, we have 15 different LPs invested in the -- in both the Crestline platform and the Sculptor platform.

So real global brands the teams do a great job when you look at this business, we are well positioned to take advantage of any dislocations in the market today, investment performance. If you look to the bottom left side of the page, Capital Solutions, 13.5 net since '22, direct lending 12 and change net since '23. So overall performance is very good. I mentioned earlier about software, only 7% of invested assets are classified in software. As we look to Elicor, I'm going to turn it over to Peter, who will give you some color on the real estate business And then after that, I'll talk about Genesis and then Barenwill take the new risk portion. Peter?

Unknown Executive: Thank you, Michael. Paramount Group, as Michael just now said, it's become Elior properties come on Page 11, a new name and a new identity but a continuation of the same commitment to operating Class A real estate in New York and San Francisco. This new chapter reflects our intention to leverage the operational strength of the Licor team and the financial strength of Rithm Capital to further enhance our trophy quality portfolio ensuring that we continue to outperform and attract the world's leading companies.

Companies in both New York and San Francisco are choosing to elevate the quality of their real estate to enhance collaborative culture, energize their teams and drive productivity it is among the most pronounced trends in our 2 markets. The quality of our portfolio, coupled with our planned significant investments will ensure we continue to attract the most discerning companies across a variety of industries well into the future. This rebrand is an acknowledgment of the evolution of the workplace and signifies a renewed commitment to delivering a leading workplace experience. 1 where world-class amenities are integrated into our buildings, resulting in a best-in-class differentiated experience for our tenants. This is a story of continuity and acceleration.

The Elicor properties team is energized and working hard to execute on our exciting plans. Turning to Page 12. Elicor property highlights. Elicor owns, manages and operates high-quality, centrally located Class A office properties in New York and San Francisco. The portfolio is managed by a senior leadership team with deep knowledge of our markets and a track record of success. Elicor is a vertically integrated platform with in-house expertise in all facets of the business, including leasing, asset management, acquisitions, property management, redevelopment and financing. Since the acquisition on December 19, 2025, we have identified operating efficiencies to increase our annual management company EBITDA by approximately $40 million.

Elior's portfolio consists of 10 core assets totaling 9.9 million square feet. The core portfolio is currently 85.7% leased at share with an average in-place rent of $90 per square foot at share and a weighted average lease term of 8.4 years at share. Key highlights include leasing. Year-to-date, we have executed leases and have leases pending on more than 360,000 square feet across the New York and San Francisco portfolio with weighted average initial rent of $94.64 per square foot, 14.9% higher than our weighted average initial rent in 2025. Capital Markets, Rithm acquired the portfolio for $585 per square foot an increasingly attractive basis given the recent transaction activity in both New York and San Francisco. JV opportunities.

Earlier this year, we launched a JV process on 1301 Avenue of the Americas a 100% leased Class A asset located in one of Midtown's best-performing core submarkets. Financing. Subsequent to quarter end, we closed a CMBS financing on 1325 Avenue of the Americas on a cash-neutral basis, extending the portfolio's current loan maturities while ensuring a well-laddered maturity profile. We also engaged on the refinancing of 31 West 52nd Street. Lastly, we are moving swiftly to execute on our growth-focused capital improvement strategy, which includes the repositioning and amortization of 4 key assets, 2 in New York and 2 in San Francisco, which we expect will drive significant rent growth and occupancy gains in 2026 and beyond.

Turning to Page 13, Elicor Properties leasing highlights. As Michael mentioned, in 2025, we leased more than 1.7 million square feet, our highest annual total on record. A significant percentage of our 2025 leasing velocity occurred in New York, where we are currently over 92% leased at share and the balance in San Francisco. In 2026, a significant percentage of our leasing activity year-to-date, including both leases signed and leases pending, is occurring in San Francisco, predominantly with leading technology and entertainment companies as well as leading law firms.

At quarter end, our New York core portfolio's leased occupancy was 92.1% at share, up 470 basis points year-over-year. initial rents in New York year-to-date on leases signed and leases pending is 4.2% higher compared to 2025 as leasing fundamentals continue to improve across the board in Midtown Manhattan. Our plan is to make significant improvements at both 1633 Broadway and 712 Fifth Avenue. 1633 Broadway is among Manhattan, one of Manhattan's largest buildings our intention is to transform the lobby, infuse a second floor amenity space with a signature bar and event venue, a 200-seat conferencing atrium on the 17th floor and Plaza and elevator upgrades.

At 712 Fifth Avenue, we intend to create a hospitality-driven amenity offering commensurate with the trophy quality of the building, more details to come. At quarter end, our San Francisco core portfolio's leased occupancy was 59.1% at share, driven largely by a couple of known move asset, One Market Plaza and One Front Street within the past year. Year-to-date, we have approximately 280,000 square feet of leases executed or pending, which equates to approximately 70% of our San Francisco leasing velocity in 2025. The strengthening tailwinds in San Francisco, coupled with our growth-focused strategy will drive continued leasing velocity and occupancy gains in our San Francisco core assets this year.

Our plan is to make significant improvements at both One Market Plaza and One Front Street. At One market, we are redesigning the atrium and the entire ground floor experience, infusing a state-of-the-art conferencing center, fitness facility, Atrium bar, 7-floor Skybar executive lounge and a rooftop deck. At One Front Street, we are totally reimagining the lobby with a cafe, a bar, restaurant, the second floor amenity space with a gym, conferencing a private lounge, and we will also be fully modernizing the elevator system in the building. We are moving quickly to execute on our key objectives and look forward to updating you on our progress.

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks, Peter. By the way, a good sales pace by Peter for -- if anybody is looking for space. We've got a lot of really good stuff going on I'll now talk about Genesis. In my opening remarks, record quarter, $1.3 billion. What I would say is the business when you think about the noise coming out of the administration around build to rent and there was an article, I believe, in -- the Wall Street Journal that I read this morning that discusses how some of the builders are actually pulling back.

And I think there's roughly $3.4 billion of commitments that are on hold as a result of some of the new proposed bills that are either being passed or have been passed as it relates to developers needing to not only build these units, but then having to sell them in 7 years. As a result of that, you are starting to see projects on hold. You're seeing the SFR market at a standstill. When you look at our business, the Genesis business today is roughly 35% to 40% multifamily origination. And I think what you're going to -- I know what you're going to see from us as we go forward, a lot more production in the multifamily space.

We are going to grow that. At some point, we'd like to grow that around our asset management business. So we look forward to that. When you look at the business, it's been a great one for us. We expect to do something between call it, $6.5 billion and $7 billion of production this year. The P&L on that when we bought the business in '22 was -- I think it was, what, roughly $45 million to $50 million or something like that. This year, we should do something between $150 million and $175 million of EBITDA. So it's been a great business. But like I said, we won't sacrifice credit in leu of production.

When you look at as we go here, there will be some opportunities, in our opinion, in the so-called RTL space. there'll be some opportunities in the housing market as we see some of the single-family rental operators get out. We have a very portfolio that we've been selling down to retail. We've got a couple of thousand homes there. But I do think there's going to be some dislocation there you're seeing in some of the equity prices and some of the larger institutional holders in that business. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Baron, who will talk about new res, we'll touch on the investment portfolio, and then we'll open it up for Q&A.

Baron Silverstein: All right. Thank you, Michael. Good morning to everybody. Starting on Slide 18. New res had another great quarter. First quarter pretax income, excluding mark-to-market of approximately $274 million, which is up 10% quarter-over-quarter and delivering a 19% ROE for the quarter. The results were driven by our disciplined origination strategy higher servicing fees and despite interest rate volatility, higher recapture and lower amortization. And this performance continues to show the power of our platform and our ability to drive consistent earnings. On Slide 19, a just a quick highlight and just given the size and fragmented nature of the mortgage and home ownership market, we believe there is significant runway for scale technology-first operators like Newrez.

Since the inception of our platform, we have grown our originations market share 8x and our servicing market share 6x, positioning us, as Michael said, as the third largest service run the fifth largest originator. And as we continue to deliver on our strategy of making home happen, we continue to grow with our client base overall. On Slide 20, we're highlighting our 2026 strategy with a focus on driving returns through revenue growth and a reduction in operating expenses. Our revenue growth is focused on maximizing overall customer lifetime value through the expansion of our partner base, continued product innovation and homeowner retention and that's shown in our consumer recapture rate and continued growth in our third-party servicing franchise.

Our expense initiatives are laser-focused on harnessing technology to deliver operating leverage. Our cost per loan, which is already almost half of industry average, we project an additional 15% reduction from our current run rate. In executing on this growth up and spend down strategy is going to continue to deliver for our shareholders. Turning to Slide 21 in our originations business. Funded volume came in at $15.5 billion, which is up 31% year-over-year but lower than last quarter due to seasonal and interest rate factors. However, we continue to drive growth in our higher-margin direct origination channels, consumer direct and wholesale, which comprised 37% in Q1 '26, up 75% year-over-year.

And while market competition continues to pressure gain on sale margins, we maintain pricing discipline, did not chase market share and margins were contained within our historical 4-quarter range. We also had a very busy quarter of new product launches. Quick flows refinance application or wholesale Express home equity offer streamlined title, cryptomortgage and medical malls. And most recently, our Freddie Mac Vantage score pilot demonstrating our shared commitment to responsibly expand access to home ownership and reduce cost to borrowers. On Slide 22, we continue to build on our proprietary AI functionality, which is an end-to-end intelligence system, enabling our originations platform, allowing us to capitalize on our operational efficiencies.

Our partnership with HomeVision is ahead of schedule with our first codeveloped tools being implemented by the end of this quarter. All of these platform investments will continue to improve our operating leverage, driving further efficiencies in loans per FTE capacity and turn times. And finally, moving to Slides 22 and 23 regarding our market-leading servicing platform, we continue to grow our capital-light fee-based third-party servicing business with 5 new clients and $22 billion in new loan boarding. Our owned MSR portfolio continues to perform well as delinquencies remain stable quarter-over-quarter and the FHA delinquencies flattened as we normalize the impact of the new FHA modification guidelines.

Regarding Valin, we're on track for the transition to their operating system in early 27 and the magnitude of these benefits are moving to an AI-native and modern servicing technology solution cannot be overstated. We expect to materially improve our processes and workflows, providing us a significant competitive advantage through our operating flexibility. And it will also be a significant benefit to any and all servicers who choose to move to Valid. Once we're fully operational, we're estimating total annual expense savings in excess of $65 million or a direct cost per loan reduction of 15% to $93.

So I continue to believe our business is the best positioned as it ever has been, and I look forward to sharing the next chapter of the Newrez grow store. Back to you.

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks, Baron. Just wrapping up here on the investment side, probably 1 of the more active quarters we've had in a while, quite frankly. As I pointed out earlier, we did for non-QM securitizations totaling $2 billion. The one thing I would say is this doesn't include some of the other things we're doing around certain funds that we've launched where we have flow products going in from some of our origination businesses, and we expect that to continue and to grow as we go forward here. During the quarter, $3 billion of investment, $1.4 billion in non-QM loans, $1.6 billion in RTL. I pointed out earlier about the upgrade flow agreement. How we purchase more loans in the quarter.

So overall, investment activities remain what I would say, despite all the headline risk and the noise robust. What you're going to see from the firm as we go forward, hopefully, real growth in the ABF business under the Sculptor brands and some of the other and Crestline brands. And again, just staying quite frankly, true to our core knitting and where we can create an edge in the marketplace, that's where you're going to see us grow. But again, as we look forward, we're not going to sacrifice we're not going to sacrifice credit for AUM growth, and that's going to be our common theme.

So with that, I'll turn it back to the operator, and then we can open up for some Q&A.

Operator: [Operator Instructions]. The first question today comes from Crispin Love with Piper Sandler.

Crispin Love: First, Michael, I appreciate your comments that you're not going to stack price credit for AUM growth. But can you just can you discuss the fundraising momentum in the asset management business and the outlook there, Sculpture and Crestline what you're seeing from institutions and then on the BDC private wealth side of those businesses, just all the noise out there?

Michael Nierenberg: Sure. So what I would say on the I mentioned before, and this is a little bit of old news, the real estate group at scope to just raised $4.6 billion and probably one of the largest successful fundraises in the real estate space, I would say, in a long time. When we look at the core competencies, and this is where I'd like to think that we have an edge, whether it be a scope during you look at the overall track record and at what we've done at Rithm and then at Crestline, we're going to leverage the core competencies of what we do.

So for example, when I look at the ABF space, we launched an evergreen fund in the third quarter, with one of our warehouse partners, which is performing extremely well. The -- and that's backed by some of the production stuff that we create, whether it be in Genesis or whether it be in Newrez. When you look at Sculpture's track record around ABF, it's -- quite frankly, it's unparalleled. We'll be out with new funds there. here in the short run. When you look at the credit performance overall as a firm and whether it be at Sculptor and/or Crestline, the credit performance has been very, very good.

We don't see any real deterioration in any of the names that we actually hold within any of the funds. And I do think it's important to note when you look at the so-called noise in the private credit markets, a lot of that has been driven by retail. So while everybody wants these evergreen funds that -- where you theoretically have liquidity, we know when the world turns sideways or the markets get dislocated, there is no liquidity or very little liquidity. And I think one of -- I cited this morning, in the documents, it says you could have 5% redemption. So when these products are marketed and it depends on who the underlying fund manager is.

But when you look at the underlying markets and you have something that says in a document redemption limits, there's a reason that happens because if you think about it logically, if Mr. & Mrs. Smith want to take out $1 from their -- whether it be their BDC or their credit fund, and Mr. Mrs. Jones don't want to take out a dollar. Why should Mr. Mrs. Jones getpenalized because someone else needs liquidity and you have to liquidate a good position. That's why I think in a lot of these documents, you have these caps. Now while saying that, I think it's an education process. There's been a lot of stuff that's been distributed retail.

The good news for us is we don't have a ton of stuff through retail. The bad news for us or actually, the good news for us is as we go forward, I think the market is learning. We don't think this -- as I pointed out in my opening comments, this is not systemic risk, and I think there's a huge opportunity for us. The other thing I would say is that it is very, very difficult to deploy the -- we're not going to be Blackstone or Apollo or 1 of the largest managers. We're going to grow, hopefully, and we're going to grow through performance.

But when you look, it's very, very difficult to create alpha when you have to deploy the sheer amount of capital that a lot of the large asset managers have. Kudos to them, they built great businesses, but it's very, very difficult to deploy that kind of capital. As it relates to the BDCs, roughly, I think the numbers are 20% of the BDCs have software exposure. I pointed out in my earlier remarks, we haven't -- while the headline risk is dramatic.

And if you go back to '21, when interest rates were 0, and you think about companies that were lent money at 20 times revenue, not EBITDA, revenue and now you have AI kind of taken a center stage, I think it's going to take time to play out. We don't really know how that's going to play out. As you think about the software industry, I think software that's mission-critical to businesses are going to be the winners. There's going to be a bunch of losers right now, when I look at our business, we feel really good.

As we think of capital formation here at the firm, we're trying to simplify our business, Sculptor is going to be our asset management business. We have Crestline, which we closed, which is another division of asset management. They do different things. And now the teams are working together. And hopefully, we're going to raise a lot more capital. But again, that capital is going to be based on our ability to create alpha relative to the peer set that's out there in the marketplace. And that's what gets us excited. So I would say, armored and upward, and the business feels really, really good to us.

There is noise that's going to create opportunity because when you think about the credit markets and you have a 5-year treasury, for example, at 4%, the high-yield index is 3.25%, 350 unlevered returns in that business are now 7.5%. Debt looks very, very attractive to us. And the last point I'll make and then turn it back to you is when you look, get its above equity. The S&P is at an all-time high, something is not adding up here. So we'll see how it all plays out.

But we feel really, really good where we are from an asset management standpoint, where we're going with that division and how we're going to create more FRE and hopefully turn the tide on the overall valuation of our public equity.

Crispin Love: Great. I appreciate all the color there. That's a good segue to my next question because just one pushback that I get from investors is that, that rhythm has become more complicated. You're definitely diversified but in a lot of areas, the results have been strong, but some investors may just move on to a simpler story. So first, what's the response to that? And then just second, what are the key ways that you're looking to simplify the business and the story overall to trade closer to that sum of the parts level.

Michael Nierenberg: One is we need to grow our FRE in our asset management business. And that is a big focus, right? So with -- obviously, part of that will come with AUM growth. Part of that will come with synergies. And that really is going to be a driver. So as we create more FRE, the asset management business can then get separated from the broader REIT. So when you think about it, we have really 2 main divisions in our operating business. One is the mortgage company, which we again, another simplistic thing, everybody wants you to take it public. I'm not sure that it's the best time to do that.

Obviously, you looked at 1 of our peer -- one of the pure mortgage companies, their stock, when you miss earnings and the stock goes down by in a day is no investor wants to be in that position. So you can simplify by taking the mortgage company public, breaking out the asset management business, you have Genesis, which is going to continue to grow. But what you're going to see in some of these businesses is more third-party relationships because the one thing that's different today than where we were a couple of years back is that the adoption of ABF as an asset class for third-party LPs has never been greater. And there's a reason for that, right?

So you've seen a little bit of rotation at a private credit into what we'll call real assets. In the ABF space, you have assets that are kind of think about almost like hard assets where the cash flow is backed by these hard assets, or you're going to see more and more capital deployed there. But overall, like the REIT is still the REIT. If I had my [indiscernible], we paid out $6.6 billion of dividends over -- since we started the company in '13. 50 million shares, that's about $13 a share. You didn't pay out, I think, I don't have my calculator in my head, but I'll try.

Anyway, if you think about that, $13 plus 10%, it gets you to a mid-20s stock price. I think part of the challenge is as we continue to maintain REIT status and pay this dividend, which we have no intention of changing right now, growing the asset management business has to be job 1, thinking about simplifying the mortgage company story and Baron and the team have done a great job there. But I think AI and I think Baron is a little bit shy about the amount of money that we're going to save there. But I do think the mortgage industry is going to change dramatically.

So I think telling the story around the mortgage company, telling the story around the Asset Management division -- the REIT is not going anywhere. As you know, we just did the Paramount deal. We're going to bring in third-party relationships there. And it's really one of the things we're very focused on how do we grow earnings. Right? If we could grow in and create more growth businesses, that will help us because we have all the pieces we need at this point. But again, when I hear you, Crispin, part of the challenge is how do we simplify the story. But I think the bigger asset managers, I would argue, are not any more simple than we are.

I'd argue they're more complicated. So I think as we continue to get lumped into the REIT space, people who think we're complicated. If we go into the asset management space, I think we'll be less complicated.

Operator: Next question comes from Bose George with KBW.

Bose George: Actually, on the -- switching to the mortgage side, your gain on sale margin on the wholesale and correspondent was down a little bit. retail was up. Was it mix doing some of that stuff? Or were there trends in the quarter that are worth calling out?

Baron Silverstein: I do think it's -- it is a little bit of a mix. I also think there's some competitive pressures overall with respect to non-QM. I also think when you look at our performance in Q4, especially on the wholesale side, we definitely had a good quarter going into Q4, and I think we just basically normalized back to margins as to where we landed in Q1, in a lighter origination volume you would expect that things would normalize.

Bose George: Okay. Great. That makes sense. And then just quarter-to-date, any changes in book value to call out?

Nicola Santoro: No, Bose. We're essentially flat.

Operator: The next question comes from Doug Harter with BTIG.

Douglas Harter: Hoping you could talk a little bit more about Elicor and bringing in third-party capital just in kind of reducing the capital commitment down to kind of what you talked about at the time of the deal announcement.

Michael Nierenberg: So we closed a deal on, I think, December 20 or December 19. So we're 1 quarter in. Peter, Peter alluded to it, we've created, I think, $40 million of savings in 3 months. So we're very proud of that. And the conversations we probably had, whether I tell you it's 100 or more LP discussions since we've acquired the portfolio. What I would say out and Peter mentioned, we're out with a potential JV partnership on 1301, we have a JV relationship with Blackstone on one market in San Francisco. We have a JV relationship with another party, Beacon on one of the other assets in San Francisco.

We'll continue to either do JV relationships, which you'll see us quite frankly, create gains. But I think for now, it's really how do we operate the company I wouldn't be shocked if at some point, we bring it back out in the public markets. I think it's a little bit too soon to do that. That could be a real capital raise as we think about creating external management fees around certain things. So I think it's all TBD. But over the course of the next kind of 9 months or 8 months through the year, it's likely we'll do some JV relationships third-party LP relationships on the assets.

Douglas Harter: Got it. And kind of given your view on commercial real estate, is it -- are you considering kind of deploying additional capital into your 2 target markets? Or is that mostly going to be through kind of the property enhancements you talked about?

Michael Nierenberg: I think it's both. In the business and we've gotten asked this question in the past, why did we see this deal. When you have the ability to acquire what we think are great assets at cheap prices, you do it. And I think it's that simple on this portfolio, on Fifth Avenue and Sixth Avenue, great operating team who we've unleashed, quite frankly, today relative to where the company was positioned before we acquired the company. Peter and his team have done a great job. That's how you make the money. By keep assets at a very attractive value and these are quality assets. They're not mid-block, they're on the big avenue. So we're super pumped about this one.

Operator: The next question comes from Marisa Lobo with UBS.

Ameeta Lobo Nelson: Just moving to Genesis. Looking at construction loans are about 52% of that book. As tariffs are pushing up labor and material costs, are you seeing any stress on individual projects? Or how is underwriting change there?

Michael Nierenberg: Our underwriting box is always pretty tight. I don't think that's any different than where we've been overall since we've acquired the company. I will tell you listen, I'm like everybody else, if you look at consumer sentiment, I'm a little bit nervous. I mean you go out and you buy a sandwich, it's $15. So you have to watch out for, I think, overall, the state of the consumer some of the noise out of D.C. makes it gets you a little bit concerned as you think about the so-called build-to-rent space.

I think seeing the article in the journal this morning, I think, is a positive as the administration will like, hopefully, peel back some of those -- some of the thoughts that you have there. But overall credit, we're extremely diligent. The gentleman that runs that business for us is CleneroSmith, does a great job by background. He's a bank credit officer. So it's not just to grow volume, it's to grow volume in a meaningful way with a tight credit box. We do a lot of different things that I think a lot of the other folks in that space. and we'll maintain discipline around credit. The portfolio, I think, is 3% is the delinquency numbers.

And when you think about the average advance rate they're typically well below the industry. So we feel really good about where we sit there right now. But there's been no real change. But from a risk standpoint and a discipline standpoint, there's been no deviation to grow origination in lieu of credit.

Ameeta Lobo Nelson: And looking at the new origination yields of 9.5%, down from 10.1% in Q4 -- is this a function of a mix shift or tighter spreads in the market?

Michael Nierenberg: So a little bit -- everything is a little bit more competitive, as I pointed out earlier, there's huge demand for ABF products. This is one of the things that falls within that bucket. While saying that, you have points in and points out and you got different types of fees. So overall, the unlevered yields are still, give or take, about 10% and when you look in the securitization markets or we put them into funds in securitization, you're looking at well into the double digits on a net-net basis. So we feel -- we love that business right now.

Operator: The next question comes from Trevor Cranston with Citizens.

Trevor Cranston: When you guys look at the proposed capital rule changes for banks, do you think that has any impact on their participation in the mortgage market or the servicing market? I guess, I was particularly curious about how you think that impacts the correspondent channel of Newrez.

Michael Nierenberg: It should help the MBS market, quite frankly. You got the basis in and around 105 basis points I think the type we saw pre the conflict in the Middle East was about 90%. That was the type we get out to 125, 130. Historically being a mortgage bond trader myself. I think stuff seems fair to cheap here. I wouldn't be surprised that the banks come in. I think some of this depends on the ministry -- the new Treasury Secretary that's not Treasury Secretary, the new Fed share that's going to come in and wash when he gets selected.

He's a little bit more of an inflation hawk, and we were talking last night about you have a massive deficit in the U.S. It's roughly $40 trillion. So they're going to have to continue issuing a lot of a lot of securities to fund that deficit. The question is, is that more in the front end and the back end, I think the other thing that probably some of the banks CIOs are thinking about is inflation. You saw this morning in the U.K. I'm looking at bond yields of north of 5%. You look today, the front end of the treasury markets in the 380s, 10-year treasuries is now 4.35%.

So I think some of that will play into what the banks do. But overall, I would think with easier bank rules and the banks having a ton of cash from their deposits, you're going to see them come back into -- or they're in the mortgage market, but I think you'll see them acquiring more. On the servicing side, don't no. I mean honestly, I think it's -- they're -- one of the -- a couple of the money center banks already have been involved in that space for a while.

I think that could continue we just have to be disciplined about how we originate loans and make sure we're not doing something for market share versus actually making the money to which was Baron's earlier comments.

Trevor Cranston: Yes. Okay. That makes sense. And then you mentioned briefly the kind of decline in valuations in some of the public mortgage companies that are out there over the course of this year so far. Are you guys seeing any sort of M&A opportunity associated with that? Or are there any platforms you think that have maybe gotten cheaper that might make sense as a sort of add-on to the existing platform?

Michael Nierenberg: Historically, our M&A around the mortgage company space has been where we think we could acquire cheap assets as part of the overall acquisition. When you look at the company today, we don't need anything new. So when you look, I think there's, give or take, 10,000 people, including contractors at the mortgage company, Baron and the team are focused on getting really efficient when you look at the adoption of AI and some of the partnerships that we've set up as a company. I don't we don't have any to buy another mortgage company. If there is a mortgage company that's out there that's cheap, there's not that many left, quite frankly.

When you look [ Rocketick ] acquired Mr. Coupe, which we built at Fortress, we built new res. There's this is not that many out there that are independent now. You have United Wholesale, but overall, I think we don't need anything more.

Operator: The next question comes from Kenneth Lee with RBC Capital Markets.

Kenneth Lee: Just one on the Newrez side of the business and the potential benefits from AI and efficiency moves there. It looks as if in 2026 you could potentially expect some increased productivity around loan processing. Do you expect to see some of these benefits materialize over the next quarter or 2? Or is it mainly weighted towards the latter part of 2026. I just want to get a little bit more color around the benefits there.

Baron Silverstein: Yes. On the origination side, right, we talked -- I talked a little bit about Home Vision and our partnership there. So that is going to be -- you're going to see those materials -- those benefits materialize coming into the second half of the year, right? Our initial product launch is ahead of schedule and our we hope to have those tools in place really going into the third quarter.

Kenneth Lee: Got you. Very helpful there. And just one follow-up, if I may, just around the Crestline business and realizing that most of the clients that you're serving are from the institutional side. Wonder if you could just talk a little bit more about color you're seeing around institutional investor demand for direct lending. What are you hearing from clients more recently?

Michael Nierenberg: It's interesting. When I was in Asia with Keith Williams, who runs Crestline, people -- there's still a lot of demand, what I would say, for direct lending. While saying that, I think that's more institutional based. You are seeing a little bit of rotation. Obviously, with headline risk, if you're a retail investor and you're not in the markets every day. I think if you could rotate out, that's probably some of the stuff that you'll see go on over the next quarter or so. But in general, we have all kinds of different funds in the market and capital formation continues. We have to lead with performance.

If we're that heavily weighted to software and you sat down with an -- and you said, well, our software exposure is 20%, they may say like, I don't really want to do this. I would say that the background of Keith and the team at Crestline and they go back to 25 years of -- and a lot of the folks in that very direct -- same direct lending space, whether it be the folks at Sixth Street or there or at Crestline come out of the old Goldman model. So we feel really good about it, and I think you're going to see more capital being raised around direct lending and they'll continue to do that.

Operator: The next question comes from Henry Coffey with Wedbush.

Henry Coffey: The flip side to the complexity issue, and we all talked about that a lot, is that there's always 1 business that does well and another that maybe doesn't do so well. But combined, you always end up at a nice spot. Can you -- if you look at your different businesses, Michael, can you tell us who not to pick on anybody, but how do you rank in terms of who's really knocking it out of the park right now? And which businesses are facing legitimate headwinds?

Michael Nierenberg: I would say -- and I don't want to sound like we're the -- I don't want to tell everybody we're always the best in everything. But overall, I think everything is performing extremely well. The real estate business, the Paramount or now known as Elicor portfolio is great. The team there. We're so excited to be working together with that team. Baron there's nobody in our organization that worked harder than Baron other than me. Baron works his tail off and Baron and his leadership team do a great job around the mortgage company. Clint and the Genesis team continue to put up great results in the asset management business, I think it's just getting started.

We're at $60 billion now. And again, it's not an AUM rate, we have to perform. So when everybody asks, what else do we need or what's next? There's really nothing that's next unless we think we're going to create an edge in -- for our LP base and -- so I think and then the investment portfolio Rithm, Charles orentino and the team do a great, great job. So -- and we're all working together a long period of time. We love where we sit in the ecosystem, the -- if there's anything that kind of bothers us, it's the overall valuation of the so-called sum of the parts.

But in general, I think all the businesses continue to perform really well.

Henry Coffey: More pedantic. When you look at the P&L and the EAD calculation, is this pretty much the way the business is going to look with some improvements in efficiency. It's just sort of the new overhead level?

Michael Nierenberg: No, I think we're always looking at overhead. We're always looking at ways to become more efficient. EAD needs to grow, and that will grow -- hopefully, grow as we -- as the asset management business grows and we get more efficient. But we're always looking at headcount, we're was looking at ways to become more efficient the mortgage company. I think the mortgage company does about $4.5 billion of revenue, something in that range. When you think about it, if we net give or take about $1 billion-ish, there's a lot of room to actually get more efficient there. And I think it's not just people wise, quite frankly, it's process-wise, it's processes.

And I think you're going to see that with AI changing the mortgage industry. So we're excited about that. But in general, we look at everything. Asset management fees should grow over time as we continue to perform for our clients.

Henry Coffey: $87 million in depreciation, is that the new run rate? Or is there some new extra items in there?

Nicola Santoro: Henry, that's a little bit higher than the run rate. That includes both the indoor portfolio as well as loco. So as we sell down the indoor portfolio, you could expect that number to come to around $60 million, $65 million a quarter.

Michael Nierenberg: And the indoor portfolio, just for everybody's netification, that's our single-family rental business. As I pointed out, we have a few thousand units or a couple of thousand units, and that continues to get sold down retail.

Operator: This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over for any closing remarks.

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks for everybody dialing in. Thanks for your questions. Thanks for your support. We look forward to updating you on another quarter here in the near future. Have a great day.

Operator: The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Rithm Capital (RITM) Q1 2026 Earnings Transcript