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DATE

Thursday, May 7, 2026 at 5 p.m. ET

CALL PARTICIPANTS

  • President and Chief Executive Officer — Sam Rubin
  • Chief Financial Officer — Albert Miranda

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TAKEAWAYS

  • Revenue -- $19.1 million, growing 109%, with record top-line and a shift toward higher-value products.
  • Gross Profit -- $7 million, up 161%, representing 36% gross margin compared to 29% previously, attributed to assemblies and modules, and improved product mix.
  • Adjusted EBITDA -- $1.1 million positive, marking the third consecutive quarter above zero, compared to a $1.6 million loss in the same period a year ago.
  • Net Loss -- $4.1 million ($0.07 per share), affected primarily by a $3.4 million fair value adjustment for the G5 Infrared earn-out liability.
  • Segment Revenue Mix -- Infrared components: $6.1 million (32%); visible components: $4 million (21%); assemblies and modules: $8.4 million (44%); engineering services: $0.6 million (3%).
  • Cash and Cash Equivalents -- $55.2 million balance, following $7 million allocated for the AML acquisition, and $7.3 million spent on the G5 year-one earn-out.
  • Backlog -- $110.6 million, up 196%, with $75 million attributed to assemblies and cameras, and $30 million from Counter-UAS programs, primarily Air Force SUADS.
  • Capacity Expansion -- Glass melting and manufacturing capability doubled by acquiring Amorphous Materials and continued internal investments, but demand is still outpacing current capacity.
  • CapEx Activity -- $6 million of capital expenditures approved in the quarter to address backlog and expected growth.
  • Personnel and Leadership -- Two senior executives appointed in April to scale global sales and business development, each with direct industry and customer experience.
  • U.S. Defense Alignment -- Proprietary BlackDiamond glass and supply chain model positioned to benefit from NDAA requirements phasing out China- and Russia-sourced optics.
  • G5 Infrared Orders -- Over $100 million booked in 12 months, with redesigned camera assemblies further boosting demand.

SUMMARY

LightPath Technologies (LPTH 4.32%) emphasized its transformation into a vertically integrated provider, leveraging the Amorphous Materials acquisition to access large-diameter optics and address supply-constrained markets. Multiple high-value defense programs, including NGSRI and Navy SPEIR, continued on schedule or accelerated, while Counter-UAS orders contributed significantly to backlog composition. Management clarified execution focus by stating, “our job over the next several quarters is simple to describe execution to execute, ship on time, move backlog into profit and loss into the P&L and let margins expand as volumes built.” An increase in working capital usage was linked to supplier prepayments and customer advances to support order fulfillment. The installed leadership team brought industry-specific expertise to convert backlog and capture market share, as federal funding channeled toward strategic supply chain alternatives.

  • Albert Miranda said, “If you set aside the GAAP reporting quirk related to the earnout, then operating cash outflow year-to-date would have been $1.3 million,” clarifying the impact of earn-out accounting on reported cash flow.
  • The shift from germanium optics to proprietary BlackDiamond glass was described as both a technical differentiator and a key enabler for market share growth as customers adapt to U.S. supply chain mandates.
  • Space, airborne, and satellite optical assemblies remain early in customer design engagement, with timelines for meaningful revenue at least a year out, and per-satellite opportunity described as “below $5 million per satellite.”
  • Assemblies and modules business is viewed as the primary gross margin growth driver by management, who stated, “the more assemblies and cameras business we are, the less we're taking business in optical components because.”
  • Gross margin expansion to 40% is targeted, with capacity-related scaling costs expected to delay but not prevent further progression.
  • Executive commentary highlighted the potential for step-function growth as larger diameter BlackDiamond optics unlock new customers and product categories.

INDUSTRY GLOSSARY

  • BlackDiamond glass: LightPath’s proprietary chalcogenide infrared glass, developed as an alternative to germanium for optics in defense and industrial imaging systems.
  • NDAA: National Defense Authorization Act; U.S. legislation requiring domestic sourcing for critical defense supply chain components, including optics, by 2030.
  • C-UAS: Counter-Unmanned Aircraft Systems; technologies and programs focused on detecting and countering drone threats, with “SUADS” referring to specific Air Force projects in this area.

Full Conference Call Transcript

Sam Rubin: Thank you, operator. Good afternoon to everyone, and welcome to LightPath Technologies Fiscal Third Quarter 2026 Financial Results Conference Call. We report today our latest quarterly results with continued momentum of strong top line growth, continued buildup of our backlog with a strong book-to-bill ratio and improvements in our EBITDA and overall financial performance. All of this is a result of a strategic shift we put in place and have been working to execute on over the last few years. A strategy that leverages our core technologies, coupled with carefully curated acquisitions that allowed us to shift to a vertically integrated provider of high-value infrared optics and camera systems, a shift built around higher revenue and higher gross margins.

The third quarter carried that momentum with record revenue, broader customer adoption, a deeper system backlog and just as importantly, stronger margins and cash flow. The LightPath of today looks very little like the component supplier we were a few years ago. We now cover the full stack, proprietary materials, optical assemblies and complete imaging systems. In a moment, I'll touch on that shift, then walk through the programs driving the backlog, the Amorphous acquisition and where growth goes from here. First, BlackDiamond, our proprietary chalcogenide glasses, including those licensed from U.S. Naval Research Laboratories.

Those anchor the platform as a domestic supply chain secured infrared glass that is both an alternative to germanium and offer significant advantages in overall system performance. This aligns with the fiscal 2026 NDAA, National Defense Authorization Act, which requires U.S. defense programs to move off of glass and optical components sourced from China, Russia and other covered nations no later than January 1, 2030. Since acquisition cycles starting now, many of our assemblies, cameras and imaging systems are already engineered to those requirements, positioning us as a natural supplier of choice and well ahead of the rest of the market that is just starting to plan their alternatives to Chinese-made materials and optics.

It has been roughly a year since we acquired G5 Infrared, the maker of the industry's leading long-range infrared cameras for surveillance and Counter-UAS. G5 is a clear example of what our model can offer. Pair a strong stand-alone business with one of our unique differentiators, in this case, the in-house produced germanium alternative glass and a secured vertically integrated supply chain and the acquired company can execute at a level competitors simply cannot match. In the last year, G5 has booked more than $100 million of new orders, helped by border patrol and Counter-UAS tailwinds. We've publicly announced we are redesigning the cameras to use our BlackDiamond glass.

And even before we have completed those redesigns, we already saw an influx of orders for those redesigned cameras. In fact, we are at a point that before we started any real production of the new redesigned cameras, we already know we will need to add more capacity to serve an even stronger demand in the near future. The capacity theme is something we're seeing across the entire business, and I will expand on that some more. It is actually a good segue into other parts of the business. So before I get back into the camera products and then other programs, I will talk about the acquisition we did that we announced last quarter of Amorphous Materials in Texas.

Amorphous is a 50-plus year-old manufacturer with complementary technology for glass smelting of chalcogenide, particularly for large diameter optics. Amorphous was founded by one of the pioneers of commercializing this kind of material. I've mentioned it during the last call, but just to reiterate the importance of the technology, I will remind everyone that in optics, the further you want to see the larger the optics needs to be. Until now, with our existing or prior glass melting technology, we've been able to provide BlackDiamond optics up to 5 inches in diameter. Amorphous now unlocks the ability to do larger sizes up to as much as 10 inches and more later on.

This has opened the market to large diameter systems, which we need for G5, but also critical in other long-range imaging systems and in particular, satellites for missile detection and tracking. But back to capacity. Acquiring Amorphous gave us an immediate boost to glass production capacity. So between what we have been doing internally and the Amorphous acquisition, we pretty much doubled our glass capacity, and it is nowhere near enough. As we will discuss again and again here, we are investing in capacity in critical areas, and glass is definitely one of those.

Having now 2 separate locations to make glass in, one in Orlando and one in Dallas, Texas, definitely affords more flexibility and expansion as well as good contingency planning. To that extent, we plan to move Amorphous into a larger building nearby our Visimid uncooled camera operation in the coming months. This is important because not only is demand for glass outstripping supply right now, even after doubling the capacity, but indicators are that this growth trend will continue, and we will need to continue to add capacity in the next few years.

To that extent, in Orlando, too, we have been adding more glass melting capacity as well as capacity and capabilities in other parts of the process downstream, that is after the glass melting. This capacity and those capabilities updates is happening across the entire organization in manufacturing locations in the U.S. and Latvia. And then, of course, the cameras and assemblies business. This quarter that we're reporting in, they represent 44% of the revenue. But more importantly, they represent more than $75 million of our backlog. The assemblies and cameras are actually internal customers for our vertical integration, hence, driving much, if not most, of this explosive growth in demand for glass and optics.

But this is just the case for the products that use BlackDiamond. As of today, while all of our assemblies use BlackDiamond, only 2 of the G5 cameras are based on BlackDiamond glass. The remaining G5 cameras were still using germanium. The acquisition of Amorphous was a missing piece in order to complete the redesign of those G5 cameras. Amorphous technology of melting our glass in larger size was needed in order to use BlackDiamond in G5's bigger cameras, which is really the majority of their revenue by dollars. The same applies for larger assemblies.

Our optical assemblies business, which has been growing like crazy for the last few quarters, just like the G5 was limited by the size of the glass we could make. Amorphous' large diameter melting now is unlocking a significant business growth in both those areas of the business, assemblies and complete camera systems. How does this tie into the capacity discussion? When we look at our current cameras and assemblies business, and we say it is around $75 million of new orders booked, that is all before we completed the redesign and the new products that are now utilizing the large diameter BlackDiamond.

So with the risk of stating the obvious, we expect that over the next few months, we will see another step function in growth in demand for our cameras and assemblies as we redesign them or design new ones utilizing this new capability of large diameter. This will, therefore, require us to prepare more capacity, which is what we're doing now. This includes not only additional capacity in glass and downstream process, but also growing our assemblies capacity, adding shifts and in some places, adding space to be ready for that additional growth. All of that is happening now across all of our facilities in the U.S. and Europe.

Additionally, to support this growth and better position LightPath, we recently announced 2 senior additions to the leadership team. Doug Schoen joined us as Senior Vice President of Global Sales; and Ryan Workman joined us as Vice President of Business Development and Product Management, both effective in early April. Doug is a retired U.S. Navy captain with over 25 years in aerospace and defense, having led global sales organization at Elbit Systems of America, Honeywell and Collins Aerospace, managing portfolios north of $1 billion. His background in international defense sales and foreign military sales programs is exactly what we need as we scale globally.

Ryan brings with him over 15 years in the defense and federal law enforcement sectors and has a particularly relevant track record at Silent Sentinel, which was later acquired by Motorola Solutions, our largest customer. Ryan is the one that grew the U.S. business of this customer of G5 Infrared to what it is today, including securing significant Counter-UAS and DHS border surveillance contracts. That direct experience in our end markets, combined with Doug's enterprise-level relationships gives us commercial horsepower to convert our growing backlog and strong technology position into sustained scalable revenue growth. Okay.

Before I move on to financials, I will give a quick overview on the major programs, but also point out that on many of those, there are specific line items in the U.S. defense budget, which was released a couple of weeks ago and is available to the public to research online. Starting with the NGSRI that as you will see in the budget, is fully financed and even accelerated some of the program. We are very pleased with our progress so far and continue to deliver everything according to plan and even better.

However, as I described earlier in previous few times, the only updates we can share in detail about the programs or any updates that are shared by our customer, Lockheed Martin or their customer, the U.S. Army, which as of now has not had any major updates, so we can't really update too much. Navy SPEIR is on schedule, and we expect some new orders with the new federal budget now being released. Border tower, we were expecting already some significant orders to be released, but it seems DHS has not released the funding yet.

So that is not an indication in any way of anything changing to the worse or to the better in any way, simply has not moved forward. Some of the smaller programs, such as them that I haven't really indicated by name, so Counter-UAS, this is primarily the Air Force C-UAS programs for which we received multiple new orders. Currently, around $30 million of our backlog is Counter-UAS, again, primarily Air Force SUADS programs. A new airborne system that we previously mentioned and that uses our BlackDiamond material to replace an existing system with far better performance now. This program continues to move quickly.

We completed the qualification, an extremely important step and are now preparing for an award towards the end of the summer or early autumn. Space programs, we have a few of those in the work. Most of them are early stages in design and unfortunately, very confidential, so very limited in what we can share. And lastly is the Apache program, which we do not have any new developments there, and there is some uncertainty around it as we're waiting for to see the funding allocated to it. Okay. So specific programs.

Of course, as we continue to grow, just like with our press releases, it will become fairly noisy and overly detailed if we go into details about every multimillion dollar program. So we're likely going to focus on the large ones going forward with some updates on others as we can. To close Phase 1 of the transformation, we've moved from components to systems and from commoditized supply to strategic technology leadership. We continue to swap constrained China-linked materials for domestic scalable proprietary alternatives, and we are converting that edge into program wins, large contracts and long-term relationships with top-tier defense and industrial customers.

The next phase, rapid scaling over the next 3 years, backed by our strong war chest of cash is now beginning and is aimed at capturing meaningful market share. Now I'd like to turn the call over to our CFO, Al Miranda, to talk about the actual numbers. Al Miranda?

Albert Miranda: Thank you, Sam. I will keep my review to a succinct highlight of the financials this quarter. As a reminder, much of the information we're discussing during this call was also included in our press release issued earlier today and will be included in the 10-Q for the period. I encourage you to visit our Investor Relations webpage to access these documents. Revenue for the third quarter of fiscal 2026 increased 109% to $19.1 million as compared to $9.2 million in the same year ago quarter. Sales of infrared components were $6.1 million, or 32% of the company consolidated revenue. Revenue from visible components was $4 million, or 21% of the consolidated revenue.

Revenue from assemblies and modules were $8.4 million or 44% of the consolidated revenue. Revenue from engineering services was $0.6 million, or 3% of consolidated revenue. Gross profit increased 161% to $7 million, or 36% of total revenues in the third quarter of 2026, as compared to $2.7 million, or 29% of total revenues in the same year ago quarter. The increase in gross margin as a percentage of revenue is primarily driven by the increase in revenue from assemblies and modules, which generally have a higher margin. In addition, gross margins for infrared components have improved due to a more favorable mix and the resolution of certain manufacturing yield issues that negatively impacted the prior fiscal year.

Operating expenses for the third quarter of fiscal 2026 included a fair value adjustment of $3.4 million related to the G5 earn-out liability, which will continue to be adjusted through the operating expenses until it is fully paid out. Excluding this amount, operating expenses increased $1.8 million, or 30% to $7.8 million for the third quarter of fiscal 2026 as compared to $6 million in the same year ago quarter. The increase was primarily driven by the integration of G5 Infrared and AML, increased sales and marketing spend, higher information technology spend to meet customer security requirements and increased SG&A personnel costs associated with filling executive roles, as Sam mentioned, our salespeople and incentive compensation accruals.

Net loss in the third quarter of fiscal 2026 totaled $4.1 million, or $0.07 per basic and diluted share, as compared to a net loss of $3.6 million, or $0.09 per basic and diluted share in the year ago quarter. The year-over-year change in net loss was primarily attributed to the change in fair value of acquisition liabilities for the earn-out related to the acquisition of G5 Infrared. Adjusted EBITDA for the third quarter of fiscal 2026 was $1.1 million positive, compared to an adjusted EBITDA loss of $1.6 million for the same year ago quarter.

This represents our third consecutive quarter of positive adjusted EBITDA and was primarily attributable to the increase in gross profit driven by higher sales, partially offset by increased SG&A and new product development costs. Although not perfect, we believe that adjusted EBITDA is a better indicator of core operating performance by excluding noncore and noncash items. Cash and cash equivalents as of March 31, 2026, totaled $55.2 million as compared to $4.9 million as of June 30, 2025. Since the raise in December, we used $7 million for AML acquisition and $7.3 million went toward the year 1 earnout for the G5 acquisition.

I want to point out that a portion of this earnout payment was required to be recorded in operating cash flows in accordance with GAAP. The operating cash flow looks noisier than reality because of G5 outperforming the earnouts, which GAAP requires to be classified as operating cash activity. If you set aside the GAAP reporting quirk related to the earnout, then operating cash outflow year-to-date would have been $1.3 million. That modest outflow is attributed to working capital, specifically prepaying suppliers for long lead materials to support that growing backlog that Sam spoke of and that's partially offset by customer prepayments.

The $55 million cash balance on hand gives us plenty of runway to keep executing on our growth strategy and fund the CapEx and working capital needed to deliver to the growing backlog. Total backlog as of March 31, 2026, was approximately $110.6 million, an increase of 196%, compared to $37.4 million as of June 30, 2025. I'd like to take a step back and give some perspective. Since Q3 last year, on a year-to-date basis, we doubled our revenue from $25 million year-to-date last year to $50 million year-to-date this year. Our backlog is $110 million and continues to grow.

This is a substantial amount of growth for a company our size, and I'd like to thank everyone in the organization for a great effort on delivering more and more to our customers every day. To our investors, we are well positioned to continue to grow substantially. We have the resources and cash in place to deliver. Our internal efforts are all about execution to the plan of delivering on the backlog and the growth in the backlog. Our focus for fiscal year 2026 and beyond supports the business opportunities that Sam described. We have a detailed go-to-market strategy that we are funding to target key high-growth areas.

Our prior year, current year and future investments in manufacturing are and will continue to bear fruit in terms of quality and on-time delivery. And as a result, in the coming quarters, I expect we'll see margin expansion. With that, I will turn the call back to Sam.

Sam Rubin: Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. From here, the work shifts to execution. We've built a vertically integrated platform around our own materials technology, one that sits squarely where the defense procurement is heading. The numbers make the point. Over the last 12 months, our revenue has more than doubled and backlog indicates a continued trend. The doubling the size of our manufacturing business in 12 months is a big task and undertaking. Doing it again, continuing to grow at such rate is a monumental task. So with that in mind, I would like to echo what Al just said and take a moment to acknowledge the hard work, dedication and commitment of the entire LightPath team.

You, my team, have been doing an incredible job getting us here and are continuing to do a great job preparing us for this continued growth. Thank you for everyone involved in this. With that, I'll turn the call over to the operator to begin Q&A. Operator?

Operator: [Operator Instructions] We'll take our first question from Jaeson Schmidt with Lake Street.

Jaeson Schmidt: Sam, I just want to start with your comments on the expectation for the step function in demand over the next few months here. Do you envision that being pretty broad-based? Or is that really coming from -- or concentrated in a couple of programs?

Sam Rubin: What I see is that right now, areas where -- I'll talk first about cameras and about assemblies. The cameras where we've been having this enormous backlog is mostly existing customers. So these are customers that have integrated our cameras already a while ago into their pan tilt systems or gimbals such and are growing with the orders from them have been growing as those customers grow, in particular, Motorola, which we very much value the relationship and the business there. But it's really existing business that is growing linearly.

As we now start switching over to the BlackDiamond and unlocking both more types of camera, but more specifically, really unlocking our availability and our capacity to -- I'm not even sure what the next limit will be, but it's not going to be limited by material as everyone else is. I expect many other customers to switch over to our cameras. And the step function there will be from taking a larger market share of the same type of product we've been doing until now, but simply that we are positioned in a way that we're the only ones that really can produce as many cameras as anyone wants. In the assemblies, it's a bit different.

In the assemblies, we've been focused on a subset of the whole assemblies industry, if you would, or assembly available market because we were limited by the size of glass we could do. So we could not make long-range assemblies or zoom lenses, if you would, that get bought by some of our competitors and many of our customers. With this now capability and with some of the new materials we've been already commercializing over the last few months and haven't talked really about too much, we can now design and are designing a lot more new assemblies that are going to take market share of areas we haven't played.

So 2 step functions, both enabled by the same thing, but for different reasons.

Jaeson Schmidt: Okay. That makes sense. And then I know it's still early, like you noted, but thinking about sort of in space communication or the space programs in general. How many engagements or conversations are you having these days with customers?

Sam Rubin: We have 2 that we are fully engaged in, meaning they're already fully designing our product delivering -- sorry, 3 of those, 3 customers that are designing. I'm not sure what programs we have that are much earlier than that. I usually know of them when it comes to the point that they're actually engaged on technical dialogue or want to talk numbers. And those are not free space communication, just to be clear, those are all camera systems on satellites pointed down to look for missile launches and detection.

Jaeson Schmidt: Got it. And final one for me, and I'll jump back in the queue. With these capacity expansion plans, how should we think about CapEx over the next 12 months?

Albert Miranda: So good question, Jaeson. We're still -- the CapEx we're spending right now is capacity driven. It's -- so as the backlog grows, we're constantly reevaluating. That said, there are long lead times in the CapEx process. So we have to get some things moving quicker than others. I don't want to say exactly what we're going to spend in the near term. But to put it in perspective, in Q3, Sam and I approved $6 million in CapEx to be spent in order to not only meet the current backlog, but what we think is going to be beyond that.

Operator: [Operator Instructions] We'll take our next question from Austin Moeller with Canaccord.

Austin Moeller: So do you expect like you would receive more funding through the $54.6 billion for the Drone Autonomous Working Group or from the DHS budget dollars that were appropriate in the reconciliation bill? And would the DAWG funding shift revenue mix further into assemblies and modules and raise gross margin further for drones?

Sam Rubin: Okay. I'll start by answering the other way around. First of all, it will be mostly assemblies and cameras, definitely. By far, we're actually -- the more assemblies and cameras business we are, the less we're taking business in optical components because we would rather use that same capacity to make assemblies and cameras, which are much, much higher margins, which answers really your second part of the question. In terms of the funding, I'd say it's all over. So drone -- from the drone dominance, we are receiving already orders. We have a few million dollars of orders of optical assemblies that go into drones.

I'll try next time to break that out and give a bit more color to it, but we're starting to receive volume orders of optical assemblies that get coupled to cameras that go into drones, and we're probably the lead supplier in the U.S. for that by far, I'd say. From other areas from the NDAA and such or which part of funding, I think it depends. existing programs, they all come the programs of record, they come from the NDAA funding and such. DHS comes from the Big Beautiful Bill mostly and so on.

But in addition to all of that, what we're also working on and is a different type of funding that is funding to support expansion of capacity. And we are working -- it is very early stage, but we're working with different parts of the government, Office of Strategic Capital and so on to secure some of that. It will not be in the near future, but it's definitely something we're looking at for next fiscal year to support some of the expansion.

Austin Moeller: Okay. And in some of our conversations with primes, it sounds like there's already an active effort where they're replacing smaller diameter lenses with BlackDiamond glass. So what factors might keep them from swapping out larger diameter germanium lenses with BlackDiamond? Is it just a matter of time? Or is there technical considerations?

Sam Rubin: So first of all, not everyone knows that it's possible. This is completely new. And even last week, I met a customer at the trade show that still didn't know about that, even though we've been shouting it from the top of our lungs. So there's quite a bit of education to be done. However, chalcogenide glass, BlackDiamond altogether is a softer material. So design aspects of it are different. It's not that it cannot be used for larger diameter lenses or larger diameter optics. You need to take different mechanics assumptions into account when you're doing that design, which is why we work very, very closely with the customers on those designs.

We leverage our experience with the material to help educate them to make sure that their design is sustainable mechanically afterwards. Simply, it's a different strength of material compared to germanium. That said, there's nothing inherently that prevents it from completely replacing or using it in all these same dimensions and uses. And in many of them, it's actually much better because the coefficient of thermal expansion of our glass is very, very similar to that of aluminum or aluminum depends which country you're in and makes it much, much easier to mount it in terms of gluing it and hard mounting it into systems. So it's mostly education of the customers is the short answer.

Operator: We'll take our next question from Richard Shannon with Craig-Hallum.

Richard Shannon: Congrats on another good quarter here. I guess one way I wanted to talk about the capacity limitations you were having and you're trying to relieve with more investment here. But how do we think about at a high level here, what your revenue ceiling is now? And where can this go in the next, I don't know, 2 to 4 to 6 quarters as you're adding more capacity?

Sam Rubin: Okay. I get this one. I would say that everything we have booked and we have in our backlog, we can deliver. There's no risk there that we can't deliver it. What we're planning towards is more the second half of the next fiscal year and increased expansion then. So our backlog is mostly for the next 12 months, the next fiscal year, but not completely. However, it's probably heavier towards the second half where we do need to add some capacity.

Richard Shannon: Okay. Fair enough. I want to ask about the space programs. I know, Sam, you mentioned that most of these are confidential, but just kind of at a high level here, especially some of the bigger ones that I think you're hunting here. When do you expect to have decisions on these? Will this happen this calendar year? Is it more of a next year? And any way to help us scale kind of the whole space opportunity relative to some of the other ones like Counter-UAS, border patrol, Navy programs, et cetera?

Sam Rubin: Yes. So time line, I have to admit, I am not completely confident on it because this is fairly new to us. We have not done anything of that type, meaning space programs and with the tight requirements on the assemblies and the cameras for that. So there's some learnings there. I would say that the time lines I'm seeing now on prototypes and on development are such that it would be at least a year before anything meaningful in terms of knowing where the wind is blowing even is available to us. In terms of -- sorry, what was the second half of the question?

Richard Shannon: Just scaling the size of the opportunity in space versus all the other bigger buckets you talked about in your potential.

Sam Rubin: Yes. So I think actually, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but during the Investor Day that we had in February, I gave some numbers there. And I explained that typically a satellite like that is about $40 million, $50 million in total cost. 1/3 of that is the entire optical system payload. And of that, we are just doing the telescope. We're not trying to do the complete camera system or anything like that, just the optical assembly, which is in the millions per satellite, but let's say, below $5 million per satellite kind of thing. And the numbers are fairly well published.

Richard Shannon: Okay. Great. Last question is for Al on the gross margins here. So obviously, adding capacity has a little depreciation and some other fixed costs here. Just wanted to know if as you're adding capacity, is there any different view kind of longer term what you think of the gross margin? I mean, you talked about getting to 40% to maybe even higher. Wanted to know how that has changed here with kind of the new scale that you're targeting.

Albert Miranda: Yes. Great question. We still expect margins to grow. However, we are scaling fast. And there are some costs in the short-term associated with that. So it will slow down our ramp from where we are today, 36% to 40%, but not much. We're talking a quarter or 2 slip in terms of that overall plan. So from the investors' perspective, they'll just see improvement, but not enough for what we would want internally. But externally, it will walk up to -- we'll continue to walk up the margin chain.

Operator: This concludes our question-and-answer session. I'd now like to turn the call back over to Mr. Sam Rubin for his closing remarks.

Sam Rubin: Thank you. So before I leave, I'll just frame it one more time to give the complete picture. LightPath is really no longer a component supplier it used to be. We're a vertically integrated systems company, a record backlog, well-capitalized balance sheet and a technology position that's aligned with the most pressing supply chain mandates of the defense industrial base. The NDAA deadline is real. Demand for germanium alternative in infrared systems is real. At this point, so is our ability to deliver. From here, our job over the next several quarters is simple to describe execution to execute, ship on time, move backlog into profit and loss into the P&L and let margins expand as volumes built.

With that, I'll conclude, and I'll thank everybody for their time today and look forward to speaking to you again next time.

Operator: This concludes today's program. Thank you for your participation, and you may disconnect at any time.