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DATE

Friday, July 31, 2026 at 8:30 a.m. ET

CALL PARTICIPANTS

  • CFO - Katie Murray
  • Group Treasurer - Donal Quaid
  • Head of Debt IR - Paul Pybus

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TAKEAWAYS

  • Return on Tangible Equity -- 21% for the second quarter, representing a sequential increase from the 19.7% reported for the first half of the year.
  • Total Income -- GBP 4.4 billion for the second quarter, excluding notable items, driven by 5.4% growth from the first quarter.
  • 2026 Income Guidance -- approximately GBP 17.9 billion excluding notable items, upgraded following the completion of the Evelyn Partners acquisition.
  • Operating Profit -- GBP 2.3 billion for the second quarter, reflecting 12.4% growth compared to the first quarter.
  • Cost-to-Income Ratio -- 45.5% for the second quarter, representing a 1 percentage point improvement driven by income growth outpacing expense growth.
  • Customer Assets and Liabilities -- GBP 986.9 billion at quarter end, an increase of 9.6% reflecting organic growth and the addition of Evelyn Partners.
  • Gross Customer Lending -- GBP 9.7 billion increase during the quarter, including GBP 5.7 billion from the commercial and institutional segment.
  • Retail and Private Banking Lending -- GBP 4 billion growth during the quarter, primarily driven by GBP 3.9 billion in mortgage balances.
  • Mortgage Market Share -- 12.7% of total stock, supported by record application volumes in March 2026.
  • Customer Deposits -- GBP 2.8 billion increase in the quarter, including a GBP 2.5 billion rise in commercial and institutional deposits.
  • Assets Under Management and Administration -- GBP 130.6 billion, following the addition of GBP 71.7 billion from Evelyn Partners and a GBP 4 billion reduction from the sale of Cushion.
  • Operating Expenses -- GBP 2.1 billion for the second quarter, with full-year guidance set at approximately GBP 8.5 billion.
  • Impairment Charge -- GBP 140 million for the quarter, equivalent to 13 basis points of total loans.
  • CET1 Capital Generation -- 197 basis points for the first half of the year, including 31 basis points from active risk-weighted asset management.
  • 2026 Capital Generation Guidance -- more than 240 basis points, representing an upgrade from previous expectations.
  • CET1 Ratio -- 13.2% at the end of the second quarter, after accruing 50% of attributable profit for ordinary dividends.
  • Basel 3.1 Capital Impact -- EUR 10 billion uplift in risk-weighted assets anticipated on Jan. 1, 2027.
  • Liquidity Coverage Ratio -- 140% on a 12-month rolling average basis, with GBP 44 billion in surplus primary liquidity.
  • Loan-to-Deposit Ratio -- 90% at the end of the first half of the year.
  • MREL Ratio -- 30.6% as of the end of the second quarter, which management reported is comfortably above regulatory requirements.
  • Wholesale Funding Issuance -- GBP 6.4 billion equivalent in benchmark transactions completed during the first half of the year.
  • TFSME Drawings -- GBP 8.2 billion outstanding, with GBP 5.2 billion scheduled for repayment in March 2027.

SUMMARY

Management reported that NatWest Group plc (NWG +0.79%) achieved strategic momentum through disciplined growth in customer assets and liabilities, simplification of the operating model, and active capital management. The company stated that performance during the first half of the year, including an industry-leading return on tangible equity, supported an upgrade to guidance for income and capital generation for the 2026 fiscal year. Strategic developments included the completed acquisition of Evelyn Partners, which management indicated increases the group's exposure to the United Kingdom wealth management market. The company reported that its balance sheet remains maintained above regulatory minimums while supporting organic lending growth and dividend accruals.

  • CFO Murray attributed lending growth to specific structural trends, stating, "Within this, growth is strongest for our larger corporate and institutions, where we see continued strong demand driven by structural trends, including digitization and decarbonization."
  • CFO Murray noted that mortgage demand was high during the first quarter, stating, "Our mortgage stock share increased to 12.7% with record applications in March."
  • Treasurer Quaid commented on the successful execution of capital issuance, noting, "The '21 non-call '20 was a very successful transaction for us. It just looked attractive from an issuance and spread perspective with the longer duration."
  • Management updated the timeline for shareholder returns, indicating that the next share buyback announcement is expected with the full-year results in February 2027.
  • The company reported that commercial and institutional deposits increased by GBP 2.5 billion, reflecting broad-based growth across business banking and mid-market segments.
  • Treasurer Quaid highlighted the potential impact of leverage framework reforms, noting that a proposed 40 basis point reduction in leverage requirements would ensure leverage remains a backstop measure rather than a binding constraint.

INDUSTRY GLOSSARY

  • AUMA: Assets Under Management and Administration, representing the total market value of assets the bank manages or administers on behalf of clients.
  • Basel 3.1: An international regulatory framework for banks designed to improve the banking sector's ability to absorb shocks from financial and economic stress.
  • CAL: Customer Assets and Liabilities, a combined metric tracking the bank's total lending and deposit volumes.
  • CET1 Ratio: Common Equity Tier 1 ratio, a key measure of a bank's financial strength that compares its core capital against its total risk-weighted assets.
  • Holdco Senior: Unsecured debt issued by the group's holding company, which sits below operating company debt in the capital structure.
  • LCR: Liquidity Coverage Ratio, which ensures that a financial institution has enough high-quality liquid assets to survive a 30-day stress scenario.
  • MREL: Minimum Requirement for own funds and Eligible Liabilities, a regulatory requirement for banks to maintain a minimum amount of equity and debt that can be written down in a resolution.
  • PMA: Post Model Adjustment, an overlay applied to expected credit loss models to account for risks or uncertainties not fully captured by the standard model.
  • ROTE: Return on Tangible Equity, a measure of how much profit a bank generates with the money shareholders have invested, excluding intangible assets.
  • RWA: Risk-Weighted Assets, used to determine the minimum amount of capital that must be held by banks to reduce the risk of insolvency.
  • TFSME: Term Funding Scheme with additional incentives for SMEs, a Bank of England facility providing funding to banks to encourage lending to small and medium-sized enterprises.

Full Conference Call Transcript

Operator: Good afternoon, and welcome to NatWest Group's H1 2026 Results Fixed Income Presentation. Today's presentation will be hosted by CFO, Katie Murray; and Group Treasurer, Donal Quaid. After the presentation, we will take questions.

Katie Murray: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining our H1 2026 fixed income results presentation. I'm joined today by Donal Quaid, our Treasurer; and Paul Pybus, our Head of Debt IR. I will take you through the headlines for the half year and the detail for the quarter. Donal will take you through the balance sheet, capital and liquidity, and then I'll go through the forward look and targets, and then we'll open up for questions. So turning to the headlines. Our results today show how we have created a bank with increasing momentum through our focus on sustainable growth and returns. By delivering growth across all 3 businesses, improving operating leverage and managing our capital and risk well.

We have created the most efficient large U.K. bank with the lowest cost of risk, delivering the strongest levels of capital generation and highest returns. Our performance makes clear. We have the capability and capacity to grow at scale. The momentum we're seeing in customer growth, efficiency and returns gives us confidence for the future. We have created a business capable of delivering strong, compounding sustainable returns through the cycle. In February, we set out how we plan to deliver our 2028 targets by pursuing disciplined growth, leveraging simplification and actively managing our capital and risk.

Our aim is to grow customer assets and liabilities at an annual rate of more than 4% to reduce our cost/income ratio to below 45% and to generate over 200 basis points of capital before distributions with a return on tangible equity of more than 18%. Our strategy is delivering excellent results as we make good progress against these 3 ambitions. So let me give you the financial headlines. We have deliberately built a scale business that benefits from structural U.K. growth drivers to deliver strong returns on a sustainable basis. Our return on tangible equity was industry-leading at 19.7%. Our acquisition of Evelyn Partners is now completed and boost our exposure to the fast-growing U.K. wealth market.

Customer assets and liabilities grew 13.4%, including Evelyn Partners. We continue to drive operating leverage. Income growth of 8.9% is significantly ahead of 4.5% cost growth. And our cost-to-income ratio reduced 2.8 percentage points to 46%, getting close to our 2028 target. We also generated high levels of capital at 137 basis points, and our balance sheet remains strong with a CET1 ratio of 13.2% after the acquisition of Evelyn Partners. Given the strength of our performance and our confidence in the outlook, we are upgrading our 2026 returns guidance to more than 19%. I'll now take you through the performance of the second quarter. My comments for the second quarter use the first quarter as a comparator.

Our strong performance in the first quarter continued in the second with broad-based growth, income momentum and improved operating leverage. Income, excluding notable items, increased 5.4% to GBP 4.4 billion, and total operating costs grew 1.8% to GBP 2.1 billion, driving a 1 percentage point improvement in the cost-income ratio to 45.5%. The impairment charge was GBP 140 million, equivalent to 13 basis points of loans. This resulted in 12.4% growth in operating profit to GBP 2.3 billion. Profit attributable to ordinary shareholders was GBP 1.6 billion, and we delivered a return on tangible equity of 21%. Turning now to income. Income, excluding notable items, was up 5.4% at GBP 4.4 billion.

Income across our 3 businesses continued to grow, supported by an increase in CAL, margin expansion and higher noninterest income. Noninterest income grew 15% or GBP 124 million. Given the strength of our performance and the inclusion of Evelyn Partners, we now expect full year income, excluding notable items of around GBP 17.9 billion. Turning now to customer assets and liabilities or CAL. We are pleased with our continued track record of growth. CAL increased by GBP 86.8 billion in the quarter or 9.6% to GBP 986.9 billion. This comprises GBP 9.7 billion of broad-based customer lending growth, GBP 2.8 billion of customer deposit growth and a GBP 73.9 billion increase in assets under management and administration, including Evelyn Partners.

I'll touch on each of these elements in turn. We are reporting another quarter of strong broad-based loan growth across the group with gross loans to customers up by GBP 9.7 billion. Retail Banking and Private Banking and Wealth Management balances grew GBP 4 billion or 1.7%. This comprises GBP 3.9 billion in mortgages and GBP 0.1 billion in unsecured lending. Our mortgage stock share increased to 12.7% with record applications in March. Commercial and institutional lending increased by GBP 5.7 billion or 3.6%. Within this, growth is strongest for our larger corporate and institutions, where we see continued strong demand driven by structural trends, including digitization and decarbonization.

Our mid-market customers are showing healthy demand driven by manufacturing and social housing. Turning now to deposits. Customer deposits grew by GBP 2.8 billion in the quarter. This was driven by commercial and institutional, where deposits increased by GBP 2.5 billion with broad-based growth across business banking, commercial mid-market and our large corporates. Private Banking and Wealth Management deposits were up GBP 0.3 billion, mainly as a result of growth in savings balances. Retail banking deposits were stable with further migration to fixed and variable rate ISAs as customers prioritize tax-efficient savings options. Turning now to assets under management. Assets under management and administration closed the quarter at GBP 130.6 billion.

This includes the addition of GBP 71.7 billion from Evelyn Partners and a GBP 4 billion reduction following the sale of Cushion in May. Turning now to costs. We are pleased that once again, we have driven operating leverage as income growth outpaced cost growth. Other operating expenses were GBP 2 billion in the second quarter, taking the total to GBP 4.1 billion for the first half. Our cost-to-income ratio reduced by 2.8 percentage points to 46%. And we now expect other operating expenses to be around GBP 8.5 billion for the full year. Turning to impairments. Credit performance remains strong, and we benefit from our structurally low loan impairment rate and strong asset quality.

The impairment charge for the quarter was GBP 140 million, equivalent to 13 basis points of loans. We saw no new signs of stress across our 3 businesses, and we continue to expect a loan impairment rate below 25 basis points for 2026. So our guidance is unchanged. We carry economic uncertainty post model adjustment of GBP 284 million with total PMAs of GBP 316 million. And with that, I'll hand over to Donal.

Donal Quaid: Thank you, Katie. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining today's call. I'll start by sharing some highlights from the first half of the year before moving into more detail on the balance sheet, covering capital, liquidity and funding. I'll then update you on our progress on funding plans across the group. Starting with an overview of the key metrics on Slide 15. We ended the first half with strong capital, MREL and leverage positions, comfortably above the regulatory minimum with a CET1 ratio of 13.2%, a total MREL ratio of 30.6% and a leverage ratio of 4.7%. Our average liquidity coverage ratio was 140%, giving us a comfortable surplus over minimum requirements.

Our average net stable funding ratio was 132% and primary liquidity was GBP 152 billion. The group's funding is very well diversified. Our loan-to-deposit ratio was 90%, and we have a strong retail, private and corporate deposit franchise with around GBP 448 billion of customer deposits across our 3 businesses. We've made good progress with our 2026 funding plan with GBP 2.7 billion equivalent of benchmark issuance from NatWest Group across holdco senior, AT1 and Tier 2 capital securities and GBP 3.7 billion equivalent from NatWest Markets. Thank you for your continued support of NatWest in both the primary and secondary markets.

We saw another positive step in our credit ratings journey as Fitch upgraded a number of rated subsidiaries by one notch following an update to its bank ratings criteria. Moving to capital generation on Slide 16. Our business continues to be highly capital generative. We've ended the first half of the year with a common equity Tier 1 ratio of 14% before distributions, in line with the year-end. Our earnings power is reflected in 197 basis points of CET1 capital generation, which was boosted by 31 basis points of capital generation from RWA management. Our ongoing investment spend consumed 19 basis points and organic lending growth consumed 61 basis points.

This means all our investment in growth was funded with just 6 months of capital generation. And we are reporting a CET1 ratio of 13.2% after accruing 50% of attributable profit for ordinary dividend payments. We expect to continue generating strong capital from earnings with active RWA management. And for 2026, we now anticipate capital generation before distributions and the impact of Evelyn Partners of more than 240 basis points. This is before the impact of Basel 3.1 on the 1st of January 2027, where we continue to assume around EUR 10 billion of RWA uplift. Turning now to our approach to capital allocation on Slide 17.

We have a robust balance sheet and aim to operate with a CET1 ratio of around 13%, giving us appropriate headroom above minimum requirements. Our strong capital generation enables us to invest in our business to grow and deepen customer relationships. We are both disciplined and dynamic in our deployment of capital, and our diversification across 3 businesses gives us optionality through the cycle to optimize risk-adjusted returns. We also apply a high bar as we consider acquisitions to accelerate our strategy through additional scale or capabilities. Our strategy is delivering attractive and growing shareholder returns, and we remain committed to a dividend payout ratio of around 50% and to returning surplus capital to shareholders via share buybacks.

Turning to our total capital position on Slide 18. Our total capital ratio of 18.9% reflects the strength of our CET1 ratio and higher levels of AT1 and Tier 2 capital relative to our minimum requirements. We currently have an AT1 ratio of 2.5% with EUR 5.1 billion of securities outstanding, inclusive of the EUR 500 million we issued in May. This is above our minimum requirement of 2.1%, and I expect to move closer to this requirement during the course of next year after the implementation of Basel 3.1. Our Tier 2 ratio is 3.1% with $6.3 billion of securities outstanding, including the $750 million new issuance in the first half.

Turning to our total MREL position on Slide 19. Our total MREL is very healthy at 30.6%, significantly higher than our risk-weighted asset requirements, leaving us well positioned for the growth and the upcoming impact of Basel 3.1. Having built out the maturity curve of our MREL stack, issuance requirements will be driven primarily by refinancing needs. Turning to our total leverage position on Slide 20. Our spot U.K. leverage ratio is 4.7% with an average ratio of 4.8% compared to our 4.3% minimum requirements. I welcome the proposed reforms to the leverage framework that were announced as part of the financial stability report in July, which the PRA intend to consult on in the near future.

As you can see from this slide, if the proposals are adopted, the minimum leverage ratio for NatWest Group would reduce by approximately 40 basis points to 3.9%. While this will ensure leverage remains a backstop measure going forward, it will not bring any day 1 benefit to the group given the risk weight framework is our binding constraint. Turning to liquidity on Slide 21. Our liquidity position remains very strong. At the end of the quarter, the LTR was 140% on a 12-month rolling average, reflecting around EUR 44 billion of surplus primary liquidity above minimum requirements. Our total liquidity portfolio was GBP 224.6 billion, comprising primary liquidity of GBP 152 billion and secondary liquidity of GBP 72.6 billion.

Primary liquidity decreased during the first half, driven by an increase in lending and the acquisition of Evelyn Partners, partially offset by new issuance. Secondary liquidity decreased to the amortization of eligible collateral prepositioned at the Bank of England. Our Central Bank balances are held at both the Bank of England and the European Central Bank with 70% of balances held in sterling. Looking at the composition of the securities portfolio, 69% are held to collect and sell and fair value through other comprehensive income and 31% are held to collect and held on the balance sheet at amortized cost. The remaining primary liquidity is a smaller percentage of Level 1 high-quality covered bonds and Level 2 securities.

Turning to Slide 22 and our funding composition. Although customer deposits accounts for over 80% of the group's funding, we also have access to stable and diverse sources of wholesale funding across a range of products, maturities and currencies. Of the 93 billion of wholesale funding outstanding, the large majority is senior holdco and regulatory capital issuance from NatWest Group and senior unsecured issuance from NatWest Markets. Drawings under the Bank of England's TFSME scheme are part of our funding mix and our current drawings are GBP 8.2 billion, with GBP 5.2 billion repayable in March '27 and GBP 3 billion in March 2031.

On Slide 23, you can see that we've made progress against our issuance plans for 2026, including benchmark transactions from the group holding company, NatWest Markets and NatWest Bank. From NatWest Group, we've issued around GBP 1.6 billion equivalent in holdco senior against our guidance of approximately GBP 3 billion for the year. In addition, we also issued GBP 0.5 billion of AT1 and around GBP 0.6 billion equivalent of Tier 2 capital during the year, including our longest maturity dollar Tier 2 capital transaction to date, a very well-supported '21 non-call '20. While for NatWest Markets plc, our benchmark trades totaled GBP 3.7 billion equivalent across euro and U.S. dollar markets.

We also returned to the covered bond market for NatWest Bank in June with a GBP 1 billion issuance, our first since 2024. As we come into H2, we continue to look for opportunities to further balance our funding mix to support our customers. Following the success of our covered bond issuance, we expect to return to the market with another transaction later in the year. Investor demand remains strong across a broad range of asset classes, including short-term markets, providing the flexibility to access funding where we see the best value. And as we approach the year-end, we will consider prefinancing opportunities across asset classes, taking into account balance sheet growth assumptions.

And finally, turning to credit ratings on Slide 24. We are comped with strong A rating across our senior ratings, and it was pleasing to see progress in our credit ratings during the first half as Fitch upgraded a number of rated subsidiaries by one notch following an update to its bank ratings criteria. With that, I'll hand back to Katie.

Katie Murray: Thank you, Donal. Given our first half performance and the inclusion of Evelyn Partners, we are strengthening our 2026 guidance. We now expect income, excluding notable items of around GBP 17.9 billion. Other operating expenses of around GBP 8.5 billion, capital generation before distributions and the impact of Evelyn Partners greater than 240 basis points and a return on tangible equity of more than 19%. Finally, we now expect to announce our next buyback with our full year results in February. With that, I'll hand back to the operator for Q&A. Thank you.

Operator: Our first question today is, what is your take on the July FSR proposals? I see that the new slide on leverage, any other opportunities that you see that would impact capital targets or planning?

Katie Murray: Don, would you want to take that?

Donal Quaid: Yes. Quite a generic question. So there's a lot to unpack. Let me cover a few elements. Overall, what we say is we welcome direction of travel to date, but I reiterate what we said in Katie said in the call this morning, and I also said in my opening comments, there has been no change to our capital requirements to date. But if we look at some of the proposed reforms that were discussed as part of the FSR review, firstly, on leverage, again, in my opening remarks, I talked about the changes that we see from an NatWest Group perspective.

If implemented as proposed, we see about a 40 basis points reduction in our leverage requirement, but that will not bring any day 1 benefit to the group given we are constrained by the risk-weight framework and not leverage. However, I would say it is a positive move because it moves and ensures that leverage remains a backstop measure and will not become a binding constraint in the foreseeable future. We've also had a lot around buffer usability. So the FPC has signaled an ambition or to move towards a simpler framework centered on a single buffer that is releasable in stress. Again, very much welcome that.

Anything that increases the size of releasable buffers and stress and simplifies the framework is a positive. However, I think given that any changes there will be in conjunction with international authorities, I don't expect any changes in the near term that will probably evolve over a number of years. And then we also had the proposed change to the O-SII buffer where the PRA has clarified that it could release the O-SII buffer in the event of a systemic stress under existing discretionary powers. Now again, this is not going to have any impact on the way we manage capital or our CET1 target for a number of reasons.

Firstly, the O-SIIs applied at the ring-fencing holding group level and the related group risk add-on that is at NatWest Group does not form part of the MDA threshold. So therefore, in a stress, there will be no change to our MDA. There would obviously be a change to our minimum requirement. As you know, we give careful thought to the calibration of our CET1 target with consideration to multiple factors, not just the consideration of MDA or buffers and stress. And we also look to balance the expectations of various stakeholders as well as consideration to our minimum supervision requirements in both BAU and stress requirements.

And also probably the last point I would just call out is that the releasability of the O-SII buffer would only be in the event of a systemic stress and would afford no benefit against an idiosyncratic capital event, which is an integral part of our management planning and target setting. So I think there are the key, I think, proposals that are outlined as the FSO. The other probably more meaningful element from a NatWest Group perspective is the work that still needs to be done on the overlapping elements of the domestic capital framework.

That's one that we see the most potential upside, and that has been deferred to Q4, but we look forward to constructively engaging with the PRA on the case for reducing the overlaps within the framework.

Operator: Our next pre-submitted question is covered bonds were mentioned on the management call this morning. Can you just set out your thinking on the requirements and how it links to the deposit outlook?

Donal Quaid: I take this one again. So covered bonds, we guided to GBP 1 billion of covered bonds for the year. You saw we did execute our first covered bond in a number of years in June. And as Katie outlined this morning, given the success of that transaction, we look to come back to that market at some stage in H2. I think the likelihood is as we move to a more normalized liquidity position, we expect covered bonds to be more core part of our issuance requirements going forward.

Operator: Our next question is going to come from [indiscernible].

Unknown Analyst: You hear me?

Donal Quaid: Yes, perfectly.

Unknown Analyst: Thank you very much and obviously, congratulations on the results. Look, just a question from me. I'm looking at your funding slide and you're halfway through your funding for 2026. And shall I just take that we're still expecting you in AT1, Tier 2 and a little bit of MREL is that -- if you can confirm just that. And then you mentioned prefunding. What -- if we could quantify that a little bit maybe and then which part of the capital structure? Any comment also on currencies would be highly appreciated.

Donal Quaid: Sure. Let me cover them, [indiscernible] . Thanks for the question. Yes, I think your expectations from a holding company are pretty much there or thereabouts. So I would expect from an MREL perspective to be active in H2, given we have to date issued about GBP 1.6 billion equivalent of our GBP 3 billion guidance, probably expect that to be done over 2 transactions over H2. Additional Tier 1, we're running headroom at the moment, 2.5% first requirement, 2.1%. Obviously, I need to consider the impact of Basel 3.1 on the 1st of January '27, but also we do have a GBP 1 billion call in May.

So we'll keep optionality there if there's a follow-on transaction to the GBP 500 million that we've done earlier on this year. I think we're done on Tier 2 capital for this year given the transaction that we did earlier in the year. And then if I move on to the prefinancing question, I suppose it's becoming quite a regular occurrence, I think, just given the strong market dynamic. But we'll look at market conditions in H2 once we've completed this year's requirements. We think from an issuer perspective and spreads are attractive, then we will give that some consideration probably later in Q4.

The question around, I think, going forward, capital requirements, you can actually see post Basel 3.1, really, what you're looking at is refinancing of existing calls and maturities with some balance sheet growth built in there as well. But we do have a slide in the deck that shows you post the AT1 call next year in May, we have, I think, only EUR 400 million in [indiscernible]. And then there's nothing from an AT1 perspective for call until 2031. So I do expect that capital issuance to be quite light, I think, over the next few years. Currency-wise, we'll be open to, I think, just different pricing dynamics in each market.

But again, given a large portion of our outstanding capital MREL is in dollars, we expect kind of dollars to play a big role in that as well over the next few years.

Operator: Our next question comes from Robert Smalley. Robert Smalley Some of my question was just answered, but with respect overall to AT1s and then Tier 2s, first, given the amount of capital generation that the bank is currently producing, do you see going forward, even a bigger decline in the use of AT1s and Tier 2s. I know you don't -- other than this call next year, you don't have anything for a while. So it seems like you'll just grow the balance sheet without keeping pace on the AT1 side. How about on the Tier 2 side, number one. Secondly, you did '21 non-call '20, very successful issue here in dollars.

U.S. investors still, for whatever reason, struggle with the '15 non-call '10 structure. Could you talk about how the '21 non-call '20 worked from your point of view, from a treasury and cost point of view because I think that, that would be something that would be more attractive going forward to U.S. investors rather than the '15 non-call '10 for whatever reasons. And then third question on the call this morning, a question was asked about data centers. If you want to give any more color on your exposure there just as a percentage of balance sheet and what you want to do in that subsector going forward, that would be great.

Katie Murray: Do you want to take the first couple and we'll take...

Donal Quaid: Robert, good to hear from you. So first question, just around AT1 Tier 2 and reducing requirement there. I wouldn't say reducing requirement because obviously, we still expect the balance sheet to grow. And with that, we expect RWAs to grow as well. But it really is the refinancing calls and maturities, I think, across the AT1 and Tier 2 stack as opposed to actually the overall requirement going down. And as I said, just on the answer to the previous question, it is quite staggered because we have extended the duration, particularly, I think within our AT1 outstanding issues. So a lot of that refinancing is back ended beyond 2030.

On the question on the '21 non-call '20, yes, your comments resonate. I think we've definitely seen at times from a U.S. investor perspective that they aren't as comfortable with the 5-year non-call. So if it's '15 non-call '10 or 10-year non-call '5. Saying that we have successfully issued both in the U.S. over the last number of years. So I think even though all investors aren't completely comfortable with that structure, there is a strong cohort of people who are invested in our debt that are -- but the '21 non-call '20 was a very successful transaction for us.

I think it just looked attractive from an issuance and spread perspective with the longer duration, and that's something that we're open to in terms of looking at longer duration issues as well if the investor demand is there. Hopefully, that answers those questions.

Katie Murray: Sure. Thanks very much, Donal. And good to hear from you, Robert. So if I look at the kind of data center piece, look, it's not a separate classification that we pull out to say it would be x within here or there. But to get a kind of a view of kind of some of the detail of where we have different exposure, probably one of the easiest places to look is in the Pillar 3.

I think if you go to Page 34, within that, you can see we have all different kind of -- it's a kind of sick code kind of classification of different amounts that we have on the balance sheet by kind of subcategory of lending, and you'll be able to pick up in there the category that they're obviously part of in terms of that, but it's not in itself a meaningful number as part of the total bank. We're obviously focused on long-term contracted assets with kind of strong operators and things like that.

But have a look there and you'll be able to get a little bit of a flavor of the makeup of the total book by subcategory. Hopefully, that's helpful.

Operator: Thanks for all your questions today. I would now like to hand back to Katie for closing comments.

Katie Murray: Thanks very much. And I'd just like to say thank you as ever to all of you for the support you gave us on our debt issuance. It's really much appreciated and particularly when we come out with classes that we don't use as regularly as we've obviously done a little bit this year with covered bonds. And thank you for joining the call, and I wish you all a lovely weekend when you get to it. Take care. Thanks very much.

Donal Quaid: Thank you.

Operator: That concludes today's presentation. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.