What to Know About Casper's S-1

In this episode of Industry Focus: Wild Card, Dylan Lewis talks with Fool.com's Brian Feroldi about mattress and sleep goods company Casper's S-1. What about Casper has awarded it the unicorn status, and can this upstart company survive the pressures of the public market? Tune in to learn more, including:

• Where Casper's carved out a competitive advantage, and where they haven't;
• What the balance sheet tells us about the company's health;
• Why Casper's Glassdoor ratings should spark some concern;
• How Casper's generous return policy could be eating away at its growth;
• The biggest risks for potential investors to keep a close eye on;
• And so much more.

To catch full episodes of all The Motley Fool's free podcasts, check out our podcast center. To get started investing, check out our quick-start guide to investing in stocks. A full transcript follows the video.

This video was recorded on Jan. 15, 2020.

Dylan Lewis: It's Wednesday, January 15th, Wild Card Wednesday, and we are digging into the Casper sleep company. I'm your host Dylan Lewis and I'm joined by the just OK Brian Feroldi. Brian, I'm having a little bit of fun with you there, man. How you doing?

Brian Feroldi: I'm doing great. It has been a while since I've been on the show, because as you've known, I am in the middle of a massive home renovation. So my time has been supremely focused on that. But you guys have been keeping the show going without me. Good to talk to you, though.

Lewis: Yes. You not being on the show is no reflection of your value as a contributor. I make fun of you with the "just OK" because Brian and I were editing our Google Doc as were going through our outline, and I was dropping our intro and our ad reads and everything in, and sprucing it up before we went into the studio, and he edited out something that I'd set up as his title and said, "the amazing Brian Feroldi." And I said, "You know, I'm going to bring him down to just OK Brian Feroldi, make him prove himself on the show today." But I'm happy to have you back, and I'm happy to be talking about Casper. This is so fun. This is a business that a ton of people know. I love doing these deep dive perspective shows on consumer-facing brands. I'm sure a lot of people know this company already. They've probably seen the marketing somewhere. But for the folks that don't, this is a sleep company. They've been around since 2014. They are kind of synonymous with the online bed business, Brian.

Feroldi: Yeah, they are big into the wellness trend, people are actually focusing on getting a good night's sleep. We've seen more and more research come out, and more celebrities are endorsing just how important it is to get your full night's sleep. This company plays right into that trend, which positions them nicely. They've also been spending heavily on advertising over the last couple years to really get their brand out there. So, as you said, always fun to do a deep dive when you take a first look at a company's financials.

Lewis: Yeah, they talk a lot about the idea of the sleep economy in their prospectus. We're going to dig a little bit into that. But this is a direct-to-consumer company. And what this business has done is very similar to what Warby Parker has done and what we've seen a lot of other very successful consumer brands do, where it used to be something where it was manufactured somewhere, it was made by someone else, available in a big box store, and there were markups along the way for all the middlemen that came with that. A lot of these companies are hopping in and disrupting the supply chain, disrupting the distribution for these types of things, and then ultimately deciding to partner up with some of these retail companies as well. That's what we're seeing with Casper. They came onto the scene early on in the online bed market and established themselves as one of the major players. They sell primarily online. They have about 60 retail stores. And they do have retail partners, including Amazon, Costco, and Target.

With some of that background out of the way, I want to hit quickly on what you were talking about, Brian, with the idea that it is a wellness-oriented company, at least that's how they're positioning themselves. They talked about the three pillars of wellness -- that's fitness, nutrition, and now increasingly, they're trying to convince people that sleep is a part of that. And I think there's some merit to that.

Feroldi: Yeah, I totally think so, too. You've seen people like Arianna Huffington and Tom Brady really going the extra mile to ensure that they get a full night's sleep. I don't know about you, but in the last decade, I've placed an emphasis on trying to make sure that I have an exact routine at bedtime to make sure I get my eight hours each night. This is a trend that I don't think is going away, and that is something that Casper plays directly into.

Lewis: My night routine is total anarchy, Brian. I am a night owl. And I am regularly up until 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning. The way that some people feel at 6AM, where the whole world's in front of them, and it's nice and quiet and they can do whatever they want, that's how I feel late at night. That's often when I'm preparing my podcast notes. So, I am not necessarily the market for Casper in that sense. But I do have a bed, and I will need a new bed at some point, so maybe I will become the market for them.

As you might expect with a company that is private and is near that unicorn status, or I think they just recently hit unicorn status, some pretty impressive growth rates for this business.

Feroldi: Yeah. We've seen revenue growth of about 45% between 2016 and 2018, which is really strong for a direct-to-consumer company that's selling, again, bedding and bedding products. Revenue in 2018 was $358 million. The split was about $310 million direct-to-consumer and about $50 million through those partnership channels that you mentioned before. So, pretty good growth. However, through the first nine months of 2019, we actually saw their growth rate decelerate quite substantially. The first nine months of the year, revenue only grew 20% to about $312 million. Tough to see that they're already seeing sales growth decline.

Lewis: When we talk about IPOs, we so often say the management at this company is deciding when this company is going public. Very often, you start to see the timeline for that speed up as growth slows down. And it doesn't surprise me that this is something that they're thinking about now, looking at the financials and seeing that 20% growth. You wonder, though, is that going to dip into the teens? Or, are they going to hit cruising altitude with 20% growth? TBD on that.

Looking over at the balance sheet, they have $55 million of cash available and about $40 million in debt. A decent amount of coverage there. As you might expect with a high-growth, early stage business -- they've only been in business for about five or six years -- they're currently losing money.

Feroldi: Yeah. The net loss was $92 million in 2018. That $55 million they have sitting in the bank won't last that long. For the first nine months of 2019, they lost $67 million. Once they do go public, they do plan on using a portion of the proceeds that they gain to pay off their debt balance, and will likely be debt-free post-IPO. Definitely something that I like to see. But there's no doubt that this company needs a capital raise sometime soon. So, it is no surprise to see that they are going public now.

Lewis: While growth rates have been slowing down for this business, margins have been moving in the right direction. More recently, margins of 51% on the gross margin side, up from somewhere in the mid-40s in 2018. It's nice to see that they're enjoying leverage, they're enjoying some scale with their business. That's fantastic. There are some concerning business metrics, though, when I look at that revenue number, because those numbers you were talking about before, Brian, that's a net revenue number. It's not a gross revenue number.

Feroldi: Yeah. One of the problems that plagues this industry, and really anybody that sells anything online, is returns. When you buy a mattress from them, they do give you a very generous time to get to experience it in your house. It's a 100-day trial period. But if somebody, for whatever reason, chooses to not keep it after that point, they can return it to the company. And for the first nine months of 2019, we saw that about 20% of their revenue was actually from returns. That's why their net result was the $312 million that we saw before. That return number has climbed a little bit. It used to be 15%, and it jumped to 20% recently. And that can be a really big problem if that number continues to climb. So, they need to have a really sharp focus on keeping the return number as low as possible.

Lewis: There's a natural amount of return that's just going to happen in retail, and, like you said before, especially in online retail. What I think is a little concerning about that is, there was a piece that came out in the Wall Street Journal in December looking at these people. And you see, it's hard to get a sense of how big this community of people are. But they basically take advantage of these online mattress store policies to buy and return mattresses every three months, effectively never paying for a mattress. And it sounds ludicrous to churn through mattresses like that, but because there are so many market players out there, they're able to do it, and because these policies are table stakes for anyone in the business, consumers are able to do that. And, as insane as it sounds, I know someone that did this. It was someone who was in a short-term rental spot. They were in a city for the summer. They didn't want to have to buy a bed or move a bed, so they just took advantage of the 100-day window. I'm not advocating for that. It creates a lot of waste. But a lot of these businesses have very accommodating trial periods. And I wonder if this is something that they'll ramp down in the future to make it a little bit more reasonable, because it's such a big part of their top line at this point.

Feroldi: They might have to, but I do think that one tricky spot that they're in is, there's no way to test out the mattress if you're just buying it online, and you're never visiting one of their stores. One of the ways that they get people to actually take action is by offering such a generous return and warranty period. So, I don't know if they really have the ability to ramp that down, because they've made it such a core part of their brand up and to this point. But to your point, it is something that management does need to focus on. And once they are public, they're going to get hammered on that probably on every conference call from here on out, so they might have to. So, that puts them in a little bit of a tricky position.

Lewis: You could see a future where they shorten it to 30 days or 45 days or something like that. I think 100 days does make it long enough that it invites not-so-great consumer behavior from some people. And, as you see that rise, it just becomes more and more of an issue. Those growth rates that we were talking about would be even more impressive if the returns had not also spiked. That's going to be eating into some of that growth.

We talked about it before, but this is a really big consumer brand, and kind of the main online bed company when most consumers are asked, "Who is the direct-to-consumer play here?" That's because they've been so good at social media.

Feroldi: Yeah. The moat that I see for this company is really, they're so good at promoting their social media presence. They hit gold a couple years ago when Kylie Jenner posted on Instagram that she got a Casper bed, and their website pretty much instantly went down from this huge torrent of requests that they got. They also have some good numbers behind that to show that there is some staying power to the brand. Their net promoter score, which is a key term that we look for, which basically asks people how likely are you to recommend this product to a friend? And it's a plus one if it's a nine or a 10, and it's a minus one if it's a seven or below. This company has a net promoter score of 60, which is just excellent. That means that their consumers really like their brand, really like their products, and they're getting good word of mouth. They also have 50% of the share of voice in their industry, which is, as you said, if you said, "Name a direct-to-consumer mattress company," Casper is the No. 1 answer. They actually have a 2X share when compared to the next closest competitor. So, that does give them a little bit of insulation and a little bit of a moat, but definitely not the widest moat that we've talked about on the show before.

Lewis: And they're going to have to maintain that moat, because this business is showing that it resonates with consumers, and more and more people are paying attention to it. In their prospectus, they talk a lot about the idea of the sleep economy, and you can do what you want with that kind of catch all buzzword, but the reality is, it's sizable. All the different markets that they either currently play in or could play in, in the future tallies over $400 billion. Now, the current addressable amount of that is far less for Casper. I think it's about $70 billion. But when you start seeing big numbers like that, and you start seeing success in a direct-to-consumer model, it's going to invite a lot of competition and a lot of interest.

Feroldi: Yeah, and that's a problem that this company is going to have to deal with forever, is that this market is huge, and it is growing. To your point, when I first read $430 billion global sleep market, I did a double-take, like, "Are they making that up?" That is so big, it was hard to believe. But when you actually look at their actual current addressable marketplace, more of the tune of $67 billion. And that does include the bedding, mattress, pillow cases, as well as all kinds of paraphernalia that relates to sleep, such as sound, scents, sleep tracking devices. So, they're taking all of that in. But $67 billion is still a massive number when compared to the $300 million that they pulled in. So, if this company can continue to take market share, which is what the thesis depends on, there is a long way for them to go.

Lewis: The current pitch is, "We are selling mattresses, we are selling basic accessories that you would expect in the bedroom, linens and some sleep products. But that market is pretty new, and there might be some sleep technology that we're able to roll in, especially as we become the go-to spot and we really build long-term relationships with a lot of our consumers." A lot of that is future ambition right now. At core, they're selling mattresses and they're selling things that you put on mattresses.

Feroldi: Yeah, totally.

Lewis: Some of the other stuff to look for in terms of growth. The company has about 60 stores at the moment. They could see having about 200 in North America alone. They're currently in about seven countries. Could expand to about 20 medium to long-term. So, there's some global expansion opportunities. There's some new product opportunities. We've talked about how gross margin is expanding a little bit. You can see that probably continue to happen for a little bit longer.

Feroldi: Yeah, there is no shortage of growth opportunities right now. They are investing aggressively in their R&D to build out their presence in numerous sleep categories. So, the company does have a substantial opportunity ahead of it.

Lewis: We've harped on just how competitive this landscape is. And when you have a lot of players in the space -- the tally I saw was when they entered the market, there were 60 online direct-to-consumer bed companies. There are now about 175, five or six years later. So, as that market gets more and more crowded, there are a lot more people vying for those consumer dollars. And that means that to keep where they are as the market leader, they need to spend a lot of money. We're seeing that in their financials.

Feroldi: Yes, this company is spending aggressively on sales and marketing to acquire customers. The first nine months of 2019, they spent $114 million just on sales and marketing. Since their inception, they have acquired about 1.4 million total customers. They are spending aggressively. I think that is the right move to make sure that they are the mindshare leader in their category, especially with so much competition that not only already existed, but that's actively coming online. So, they need to spend that money. It is showing some success. But there's no doubt that acquiring customers at this business is very expensive.

Lewis: The hope for them longer-term is that as they build these really great relationships with customers, they have customers come back. And we've seen companies be very successful in spaces where, frankly, legacy players have taken for granted the consumers that they have, and mostly because they don't have options. Say what you will about Uber and Lyft, but they are solving a pain point for most consumers. The taxi experience generally is not awesome. In Boston, I remember being there six, seven years ago, when Lyft and Uber were really just getting off the ground. And it was mandated by the city that all cabs would have credit card processing abilities. And you'd get into a cab, and of course, they'd want cash, and they'd say the thing was broken. So, when you have a company that addresses pain points -- in the case of Casper, it's the classic mattress sale of, you're not sure what you're getting at one store versus the other, there are different names for each mattress, it's impossible to comparison shop -- moving some of that friction away, moving it to a less high-pressure selling environment, there's a lot of perks that come with that. And they're hoping that they can build that into a long-term relationship with their customers. What we've seen over the first nine months of 2019 is that of their online direct-to-consumer sales, 20% were repeat customers, which lends some credence to that. What I think is particularly interesting is, the company's only been around for five or six years. I generally think that the mattress upgrade cycle is probably more than five or six years.

Feroldi: Yeah, I would think that a mattress would be a 10-plus-year, something that you buy that often. To your point, they do have 20% repeat customers, as they say. However, we don't know if that 20% is people coming back to buy, say, a second mattress from them, or if somebody counts as a repeat customer if they buy a pillowcase from them a couple of months later. It is good to see that people are interacting with the brand more than once, because as we just talked about, acquiring customers, convincing them to give Casper a try, is incredibly expensive. But you cannot say that this company has recurring revenue, which is something that I personally look for in any business. Do they have the potential to grow their repeat customers? Absolutely. But from what we've seen thus far, I'm not that impressed.

Lewis: Yeah, I think it's a little early to know for sure. There are metrics moving in the right direction. That repeat customer number has climbed. I think it was about 16% a year or two prior, now 20%. So, we're seeing it move in the right direction. But we're a little bit too early in the business to know for sure.

All right, Brian, we can't talk about a business without talking about management and company culture. We love to see management that's well-liked and also has some skin in the game. We don't know a ton about the current equity stakes for management when it comes to Casper, but we've got some information.

Feroldi: Yeah. Casper was started, again, in 2014 by five co-founders. One of them, Philip Krim, is the current CEO. Three of the other co-founders are still involved with the company. One is the chief strategy officer, one is the chief product officer, and another one is an unnamed executive. It's good to see that four of the five co-founders are still active at the business. We did look through the S-1, and it was disappointing to see that we do not know how much stock each of these co-founders own. But we do know that the CEO must hold 5X his base salary in stock, and the other executives do have to hold 1X their own base salary in stock. It will be interesting, once we get more information, to see how much of this business these founders still own.

Lewis: That's the one disadvantage of doing some of these prospectus shows immediately after the S-1 drops. We have some of the details, but, of course, some of the tables, some of the information, left blank, because we don't have all the details yet. As we get closer to the IPO, we'll get a better sense of what that looks like. Brian, you also took a look at the Glassdoor scores for Casper.

Feroldi: Yeah. Glassdoor is a great place to go to get a quick glimpse of what employees say working at the business. What we saw, I would describe as OK, not great. Currently, employees give the company 3.5 stars out of 5. The only trouble is, a year ago, that was 4.6 stars out of 5. So, the trend is going in the wrong direction. And a lot of times, when a company goes from being a private company to a public company, having to report consistently really changes the culture and makes it a tougher place to work. It's possible that number could continue to trend downward from here. That's something for investors to definitely keep an eye on. As far as the CEO, he gets an 86% approval rating from employees. That's generally pretty good, but only about half of employees, 52%, would actually recommend working at the company to a friend. So, Glassdoor scores I would generously describe as OK.

Lewis: Yeah. The reason we focus on the Glassdoor scores is because talent is so important for a lot of these businesses. You don't want to be constantly hiring and bringing new people in. So, when you see a business that's well-run, with management that's well-liked, and employees that would recommend working there, it probably means they're able to retain employees, they don't have to spend nearly as much on talent acquisition and training and bringing people in -- all the disruption that comes with that kind of stuff. Brian, I know digging through the S-1, you had a couple other things you wanted to point out. Then we're going to flip it over to a listener question.

Feroldi: Yeah. One thing that caught my eye in the risk section was that the company quote-unquote "had a material weakness in its internal controls over financial reporting related to operating expenses." Specifically, they overstated in the past their accrued liabilities, sales and marketing, and G&A expenses. So, it is good to see that they caught that and called that out, because if they didn't catch that, if they had to say restate that once they were public, boy, would there be a scandal real to financial reporting being insufficient. So, it is good to see that they caught it and they addressed it before they went public. But that is something that caught my eye, and that is a yellow flag, when you see something wrong with the accounting of a business.

Lewis: Yeah. Hopefully they got that under wraps and they've managed to figure all that out. I mentioned that we're going to be talking about Casper on today's show on Twitter. Just as a reminder, if you don't follow us on Twitter, @MFIndustryFocus, you can catch us there. We have a question from Sam. Sam asks, "Just how big and differentiated is Casper when it's selling products meant to last 10 years, and the space has exploded with competition? Is the plan to expand into more bedding? How justified is this unicorn valuation?" I think this is an awesome question from Sam. We touched on some of the stuff with expansion, but I think we'll hit some of the other parts of this, where, if you look at the sleep space, it kind of reminds me a little bit of what happened with meal kits. It was pretty clear that there was a recipe that people could follow. Blue Apron set the standard with creating the space, creating a great consumer experience, having a certain feel to the look and the feel of the brand. And then a lot of people flooded that space. There's Purple Carrot, there's Green Chef, there's all these companies that came in and saw that there was a viable market there, and that made it really hard for Blue Apron. And that's been borne out in their financials. They've had a really tough time bringing customers in and keeping them. And I wonder if some of the unit economics there in the marketing spend is going to catch up to Casper in the same way, Brian.

Feroldi: Yeah, it's totally possible that could happen. I think the success of Casper up until this point has proven that there is a business here, there is consumer demand for this type of product. But, to Sam's point, what is it that separates Casper from the competition? Why will consumers choose this brand? The best answer that we could come up with from this point is that existing customers really seem to like their Casper mattress. So, the company appears to make a really good product that people do like. But what's to prevent companies from entering the space and steadily chipping away at that market share that this company is trying to build? I don't have a great answer there. They do have the mindshare. They do have a social media presence. So, you could say that they are the top dog and first mover in this market, which could keep them insulated from competition for a bit. But that is a big question mark that I have about this company. And, as we talked about at the top of the show with their revenue, we saw the revenue growth go from almost 50% for three years down to 20% last year. That to me is at least a hint that their brand moat might not be as strong as investors need it to be to justify a billion-dollar valuation.

Lewis: What's tough here, too, is it's not just other upstarts hopping into the space and doing the classic direct-to-consumer disruption. There are companies that are either owned or backed by some major mattress players, some legacy companies. So, you're not just going up against other companies that have little funding and are running scrappy. You're running up against some big industry giants that have brands that look and feel a lot like what you're trying to do, which is just going to be tough.

Feroldi: Yeah, totally. As we said before, this is a company that's only been around for a couple of years. And it's been a great couple of years for the economy and the stock market in general. So, what happens to this company's financials if we hit tough times, if recession comes? I mean, I think that a mattress is a purchase that can be delayed indefinitely if need be. So, I have a lot of questions in my mind right now. That's not to say that Casper can't continue to grow, that it doesn't make a great product, or anything like that. For me, I just have more questions about the long-term growth potential of this business than anything else. So, to me, this is a stock that I will watch with interest, but won't be entering my portfolio. How about you, Dylan?

Lewis: I'm in the same boat, Brian. I want to see exactly where they come out valuation-wise. The metric that I think Sam should track here, if Sam's looking to get a sense of, are customers coming back, is that working, is that return number that we're getting on customers specifically from the direct-to-consumer channel. That number was 20% recently. Again, we don't know the product mix for that 20%, but it's a sign that people really like the brand, they like the products that they're getting. They're not all going to be mattress sales, but if their whole pitch is, "We're selling mattresses and we're building out this wonderful suite of sleep accessories that really complement that business well," and they can cater to those customers very well, especially with products that maybe have lower return rates than their mattresses, they might really be onto something there. It seems like they have a great consumer product, it's just a matter of making sure that the business lines up and becomes investable.

The numbers that I've seen in terms of valuation put the current valuation around $1.1 billion based on their past funding rounds. They will probably be looking to get a premium on that when they hit the public markets. But that's going to be north of 4X sales. They're spending a lot of money on SG&A. I will say, the gross margins for the company, at about 50%, are a lot higher than I thought they'd be, Brian.

Feroldi: Well, that's good to hear. Certainly not the SaaS gross margins that we're talking about, but it is good to see that they are consistently growing that number. If you dig through the S-1, they do make it clear that they're going to make investments in their manufacturing and supply chain to continue to fund their future growth, as well as hopefully push that number higher. We didn't get a number for how high they eventually think that can grow. But, yes, as of right now, given their scale, a 50% gross margin certainly is encouraging.

Lewis: It's a business that I think I'm going to be rooting for. I love when people come in disrupt legacy companies and legacy industries and create something that's a much better consumer experience. Right now, it looks like a hard business. And I think there are just easier businesses out there that are a little bit more investable at this point. We'll get a firmer sense of all the numbers when we get the final prospectus and they set a date for their IPO. So, we're going to come back to this, of course. But I think that's the catch-all for how I'm thinking about that. Anything we left out, Brian?

Feroldi: Yeah. I would just say, in general, whenever we dig through an S-1, one of the things that I personally do is, I'm not like Joey, I don't buy any IPO, no matter how great it looks on day one, because when a company goes public, things change. The culture changes. Wall Street has a number that this company has to hit. Can they live up to those expectations? Or was management looking for an exit when they went public? You don't know those answers until you watch the company for two, three, four, or more quarters. So, I'll be watching this company, but I won't be a buyer on day one, for sure.

Lewis: I think that's a particularly good point when you see the growth rate decelerate as much as it has. I think that's a great cautionary tale, and just something to keep in mind, because you want to get a better sense of where that number's going with such a steep drop-off in just a year's time.

I think that'll wrap our Casper discussion there. But we got some listener love via iTunes reviews. Just as a reminder to folks listening to the show, we love getting the iTunes reviews. If anyone gives us a five-star review on iTunes, I'm happy to read it on the show, especially if it's got a question or a comment or something that we can address. Sean wrote in and said, "I'm a college student and listen to this every day on my way to class. So helpful and by far the most interesting investing and market podcast out there." That's awesome. Thank you, Sean. Thank you for writing in. I love these kind of notes because, Brian, to me, it is so fun to get a sense of where people are listening to these shows. We record these, I'm in the studio, you're in your home office, and sometimes it feels like we just kind of throw these out into the ether and that's it, they just kind of disappear. I know we have a regular Motley Fool podcast listener who works on a dairy farm and plugs in and listens to our podcast while he's out milking the cows. I think it's really awesome for us to be in his ear. While that's happening. Cool to know that we're in Sean's ear as he's walking to class.

Feroldi: Yeah. Have a good class, Sean.

Lewis: And it's awesome that as a college student, Sean's getting into the investing game. I think that's fantastic. We have one other five-star review. That's from skidiamond, which is a little poke at me, as someone who's living in the Mid-Atlantic right now. I can't get out onto the mountain, the weather's been way too warm. But, skidiamond writes, "I like the intro, love the closing song. Keep up the fun." So, there you go, Austin! We were talking about some negative feedback from the new intro, now we've got some positive love. It seems like it's a little polarizing, but people are starting to get used to it. I guess we've got to keep playing Checks and Balances by Burke, because that's been getting a lot of love from listeners as well. We'll play out today's show with that.

Brian, thank you so much for hopping on today. Anything else before I let you go?

Feroldi: No. It was good to be invited back after two months, Dylan. You've got to think of me more often, I guess.

Lewis: [laughs] Wow, I didn't realize you had it circled on your calendar. Well, you pitched me a bunch of episodes, so I know we're going to be coming back to you soon. Thanks so much for hopping on today's show, Brian.

Feroldi: Always good to chat with you, Dylan.

Lewis: All right, listeners, that's going to do it for this episode of Industry Focus. If you have any questions or you want to reach out and say hey, shoot us an email over at [email protected]. We love getting ideas for shows. Of course, you can follow us on Twitter @MFIndustryFocus. If you want more stuff -- not necessarily podcast stuff, but additional content from The Fool -- head over to our YouTube channel. We've got tons of investing basic content over there, great for beginners.

As always, people on the program may own companies discussed on the show and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against stocks mentioned, so don't buy or sell anything based solely on what you hear. Thanks to Austin Morgan for all his work behind the glass today. For Brian Feroldi, I'm Dylan Lewis, thanks for listening and Fool on!