In this episode of Industry Focus: Tech, we break down the prospectus from soon-to-be-public cybersecurity company SentinelOne. The company uses AI for endpoint security, aiming to protect enterprise clients and prevent massive breaches. In the show, we explain what the company does, where it stands in the industry, and how it stacks up to competitor Crowdstrike (CRWD 1.02%).
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This video was recorded on June 11, 2021.
Dylan Lewis: It's Friday, June 11th, and we're talking about SentinelOne. I'm your host, Dylan Lewis, and I'm joined by fool.com's super sloppy soldier of scouring surprisingly succinct S-1's, Brian Feroldi. Brian, how are you doing?
Brian Feroldi: Dylan, happy Friday to you. How are you feeling today?
Lewis: I'm feeling great, and I have to say it's nice to be doing the show with you again. Listeners may have noticed there's a little gap there where I did some shows with Anand. It was really fun to bring his framework and his criteria in, but I always love talking about companies with you. But for folks, they might say, Brian and Dylan haven't talked in a little while. Not true, we briefly got to see each other in person, which was absolutely delightful, and I will make that trade any day.
Feroldi: Last week I got to do a fun little tour of the East Coast that I usually do every year. Haven't been able to do that for two years for obvious reasons, but yes. As part of that, I did get to go out to lunch with you as part of that, so awesome to see you in person.
Lewis: Super fun. It was the first time I think I've seen a Fool in person in, like, a year and a half. To be able to sit outside and grab lunch with you was just such a treat after doing all this stuff over Zoom. Back on Zoom today, but you know what? It's OK, we're going to have fun, we're going to talk about another S-1. They just keep rolling in, Brian, and this one is going to sound a little familiar to Fools that follow the cybersecurity and Cloud space. The company name is SentinelOne. It looks an awful lot like a company that we've talked about and appears in some Fool services, CrowdStrike.
Feroldi: Very similar to CrowdStrike when you read through what this company does. They recently filed their S-1. Their proposed ticker is the letter S. Kudos to them for grabbing a single-letter ticker. I think it wasn't all that long ago that that ticker used to belong to Sprint, but that was maybe years and years ago. But yes, when S-1 like this comes out, it means that they are looking to come public and raise money. While, we don't know a lot of information about the pricing, how much they're going to raise, what use are going to be funds for, we do get enough to give us information about whether or not we're interested in giving this business a further look.
Lewis: In this case, the company was valued at about $3 billion not too long ago, so it's about November of 2020. You figure they're probably going to be going public north of that, but they're not going to be deep in the double digits or anything like that. So you're looking at solidly probably a mid-cap company that we'll be looking at. But in terms of the information we do know, that's where we're going to be spending most of our focus for the show. The mission for this company is "To keep the world running," which sounds simple and almost wholesome really. But when you think about it, cybersecurity, the idea is no news is good news. If you're not running into any issues, Brian, if you're not having any problems, if everything is running smoothly, that means that the system is working the way it's supposed to be working.
Feroldi: That's the sad thing about cybersecurity. If it's doing its job perfectly, you don't know it's there. It's almost like a linebacker. Linebackers in the NFL, you only know about them when they do something wrong, you only hear about them when something gets screwed up. With cybersecurity, it's only in the news when there's some massive attack. Now, that's not good for, obviously, humanity, but that is just a constant calling card that companies like SentinelOne get with, "Hey, you need our services. This is why."
Lewis: In the S-1 they go through and they explain the dynamics of cybersecurity. One of the things that they point out is the cybercriminals only need to be right once, and as an organization, you only need to be wrong once. I play a lot of soccer in my free time, I'm excited to start doing that again in D.C. now that things are opening up a little bit. It reminds me an awful lot of being a goalkeeper because you can play a great game, you have a shut-out going for three-quarters to the game, but if you go up two goals in the last quarter, it doesn't matter. This is the way it works, and organizations have to have the same approach when it comes to cybersecurity, so do the firms that went up supplying them. Really, Brian, the stakes are only getting bigger and bigger in the space. You feel like you see a news story about it almost every week.
Feroldi: With workers moving to remote work and the rise of the Cloud, the rise of more and more Internet connected devices, the demand for these kinds of services is only going to grow in time. If a company such as SentinelOne can carve out a name for itself, the growth potential of this business is almost unlimited.
Lewis: Within the cybersecurity space, they are specifically focused on what we call endpoint cybersecurity. The more expanded version of their mission statement gives you a little bit of a sense that is to keep the world running by protecting and securing the core pillars of modern infrastructure, the data and the systems that store, process, and share information. It's an endless mission as attackers evolve rapidly in their quest to disrupt operations, breach data, term profit and inflict damage. For folks that maybe aren't familiar, endpoint, basically any device that's going to be connected to your network. You can think about that as your laptop, you can also think about it as a server. Really, anything that is playing a role in either how people are directly interacting with information or how that information is being processed for an organization.
Feroldi: If you look historically how we've handled cybersecurity, much of it was done by humans themselves. It was all on premise, there was a team and staff that handled any issue when it cropped up. Obviously, our shift to the Cloud has significantly changed that and we're all using so many more devices that there's so many places for cybersecurity criminals to go after. What SentinelOne likes to say is that it's the "world's first purpose-built AI powered extended detection and response system." Their goal is to have this system make almost everything about cybersecurity autonomous, so that once it's installed, it's always working, it's always running and you don't have to think about it.
Lewis: I'll say, Brian, as a human, as an end-user here, that makes a ton of sense to me because how many times have you had an update forced on you and you're like, "Okay, I'll deal with that later," or talking about the distributed workforce and people being at home, the control that organizations have over devices, the way they're used, the software that's on those devices, all that type of stuff goes down. This is something that directly addresses that problem, which we're seeing more and more of because people are at home. But really, this is something that the industry has been trending toward over time, and this is a purpose-built business for the world that we're in right now as opposed to legacy players that are bringing their current stuff present with the technology that everyone's on. I want to read a little bit for an in-depth background on what they do from the S-1 because they spent some time crafting this language. It's probably going to be a little jargon heavy, but it's going to do a better job explaining it than I think either of us can try and summarize, Brian.
They say, "Our platform ingests, correlates, and queries petabytes of structured and unstructured data from a myriad of disparate external and internal sources in real time. We build rich contexts by constructing a dynamic representation of data across an organization. As a result, our AI models are highly accurate, actionable, and autonomous. Our distributed AI models run both locally on every endpoint and every Cloud workload, as well as on our Cloud platform." There we hear it's within each device, but it's also on the Cloud platform. Brian, when I hear all of that coming in here, it's a lot to process, but what I think it does a good job of getting to the core of is, really a lot of cybersecurity work is pattern recognition, and realizing that there is a certain cadence to the way attacks are done, being able to recognize them before damage is done, and being able to shirr up the network. I'm generally of the mind that AI is probably going to do a pretty good job of it as it's trained to do so.
Feroldi: I think that that's pretty clear, that's a pretty fair assumption to make. That is the core thesis behind this company, is it does have that AI to not only monitor all of your endpoints and protect them in real-time, but importantly, just like with CrowdStrike, and we're going to keep making this comparison over and over again, it also fights back against because one of the points that this company makes is that these aren't necessarily just a cybersecurity criminals that are operating all by themselves, they might be government-backed with incredible access to incredible technology at their own disposal, so you really need to have the best technology out there in order to be able to defend yourself from these kind of attacks.
Lewis: The way they summarize it is, we want machines to be fighting machines. You want it to be a fair fight, particularly because being wrong once can be so devastating for a business. To bring it back to something that maybe we're a little bit more familiar with because I know we're straying into the depths of our technical knowledge there, Brian. One thing that I think it's easy to get excited about with this business. Just looking at the back of the baseball card here. We have a founder-led company, and it's a SaaS Cloud-first business, which we've seen a lot of success with here at The Fool.
Feroldi: This company was founded in 2013, so it's only eight years old. It doesn't have any legacy products that are holding its noun. It was a Cloud-first company because the Cloud was very established at that time. It was founded by a few co-founders that basically believed that there were holes missing in the security systems of the day. Again, very similar to CrowdStrike where they say, legacy systems are not keeping up. We need to build a Cloud-first product that secures all endpoint devices. The good news is when you look at this management team, the founder, Tomer Weingarten, I'm going with the pronunciation. He's still in charge today. So this is still a founder-led company. That's always a big plus in my book.
Lewis: It is, and you'd get a much better perspective on the company when it's founder-led. You get to read the founder letter in the S-1 and see the contexts that they layer into the business and just generally what their vision looks like. I think that's always helpful. We said the magic words earlier, Brian of SaaS, and so people probably know where this is going in terms of business models. No surprises. It's a multi-tiered Software-as-a-Service company, and we're looking at a subscription model in terms of how clients pay.
Feroldi: This company says that it has three core tiers called a singularity core at the very bottom level, singular control at the mid tier level, and singularity complete, which is its highest end enterprise grade product. Customers can come in and they can subscribe to any of them. They typically pay on a per seat per device per month basis, and it really depends on how much control they want to hand over to this company and how much protection that they do need. Obviously, SentinelOne does want to bring these people in and then gradually over time upsell them, and it does have the numbers to show that it is doing just that.
Lewis: Yeah, and I think it's fun. Singularity being the name of their product for the AI fans out there. No surprises when you look over at the financials for this business looks an awful lot like a software company. Super high growth, pretty decent margins, and importantly, Brian, we have a look at a net revenue retention rate number, which we always love to see.
Feroldi: When it comes to companies like this, it can be really hard to separate them from each other. For that perspective, what do we say over and over again? This sounds great. Prove it.
Lewis: Show us the numbers.
Feroldi: Prove it. Show us with the numbers that not only are you doing what you say you're going to do, but that customers are buying it. On that front, this company is off to a really good start in the last fiscal year, which ended in January. The actual year 2020, they call it fiscal year 2021. Revenue was $93 million and that was up over 100% over the prior year. Interestingly enough, while this business is only eight years old, it already has a pretty substantial international business. Domestic sales are 72% of sales. So that's North America, but international is already 28% sales. That shows that this concept does translate across borders. Gross margin was a little bit disappointing, if I'm going to be honest, the gross margin last year was 57%. That was down a couple of percent. I'm guessing because they needed to service all of that sudden demand, but that's not as high as we see with some other companies. One tricky thing though is that this company is losing boatloads of money. Operating loss in fiscal 2021 was $115 million. As a reminder, revenue was $93 million. So this company lost more money than it pulled in in revenue. A lot of that is because it is scaling quickly and is spending heavily on sales and marketing as well as research and development. But that just shows you how small and how early this company is coming public.
Lewis: Yeah. That revenue base alone, I think, really tells you a lot, because Brian, I can't really think of too many companies that we've talked about that are below $100 million and trailing revenue, granted, we're talking about triple digit year-over-year growth. I think we're going to continue to see that climb in the years that follow. But it is good to take a moment. We compared it to CrowdStrike plenty of times with the financials to compare those two, and what you see with a company like CrowdStrike is, it's about 10 times the revenue base. The gross margins are considerably higher. In the case of CrowdStrike at about 74% gross margins, and CrowdStrike is about a $50 billion business with that financial space. We talked about it before, this is probably going to wind up debuting somewhere in the single digit billions. Not crazy, but you immediately look at that gross margin comparison and you say, I wonder why they aren't able to work at a similar level of profitability as their much larger counterpart.
Feroldi: You hate to compare them to CrowdStrike on a financial basis because you think that they're different businesses. But one thing that's worth pointing out is given the enormous difference in revenue between those two companies that we just said, you might think, well, CrowdStrike must be much older. CrowdStrike was founded in 2011, so just two years prior to SentinelOne being founded. That should speak a little bit about how extreme CrowdStrike's growth has been.
Lewis: Yeah. It's been absolutely remarkable, and it's a tough comp. It's just that we're comparing one business to a category defined in a lot of ways and so it's always going to be difficult. One thing I will say, if you're looking for positive signs in the financials, the net revenue retention rate for this company, 124%, which is pretty darn strong. I think a lot of businesses in the SaaS, in the Cloud space would be thrilled to post a number like that.
Feroldi: For sure, and as a reminder, that is the retention number, that is the one that includes churn. The company also reports a gross number, which is just the same customer from year to year, and that number is 97%. So when this company acquires a customer, they tend to be very loyal and ramp their spending over time, and speaking of customers, the company has already attracted over 4,700 of them in total. That figure was up almost 80% over the prior year, and it does include some big-name customers: JetBlue, Autodesk, Estee Lauder, TGI Friday's, Aston Martin. So, this company is doing a good job of holding its own at a space.
Lewis: Yeah, and that's another thing we generally look for, particularly in spaces where we just know that the technical depth of what the company does, is a little bit beyond what we know. That social proof is huge and customers seem pretty satisfied. They quote a 97% customer satisfaction rate, that's strong. You pair that with what we see in terms of retention numbers. That all puts together a pretty nice story. One other thing that I think popped out to me looking at their financials is over on the balance sheet. As of January 31st of this year, $395 million in cash, $19 million in long-term debt. That is a very, very healthy net cash position for them.
Feroldi: Sure is. But if they're losing money that rapidly, they're going to need it. So I understand why this company is looking to go public now to raise while the sun is shining. Their net loss last year was $117 million, that did include a whole bunch of stock-based compensation. I'm sure that stock-based compensation numbers are only going to grow after this company comes public. But if you're just looking at cash flow on a free cash flow basis, the free cash flow number over the last fiscal year was negative $72 million. While it does have a very strong balance sheet for now, it's definitely going to need to raise capital at some point, especially if it continues to reinvest in itself so aggressively.
Lewis: Yeah. I think one thing that'll be interesting to watch with them, we mentioned how one of their main competitors has much more impressive gross margins. That 57% number we were talking about before, it's actually down from where they were in 2019, and so like long-term, you expect them to enjoy operating leverage a little bit and see that expand. Growth can do very funny things to your margins short-term, but you'd hope that there's some expansion opportunity for them. Long-term there, that would certainly help out with the cash burn, Brian.
Feroldi: That's the hope though.
Lewis: One can dream. I think we touched on a large part of what we'd want to do with customers here. But you mentioned the headline, folks that they're partnered up with. One of the things that was encouraging for me, looking at their customer base. Over 200 customers with an ARR of over $100,000, which is double from where they were the previous year. We'd like to see diversification there, and obviously, the more people you have paying into those higher level accounts, the better it's going to be for the business.
Feroldi: Enterprise grade customers are where companies like this make most of their money and that is the case here. The company did point out, again, it has 4,700 customers in total, but enterprise customers are about two thirds of total revenue. It is nice to see that they are having success at landing them. Again, even considering they're going up in the space against a company like CrowdStrike.
Lewis: Turning over to opportunities and just really like what you see going forward over the next three, five, 10 years with a business like this. No surprise in terms of tailwinds. We touched on a couple of them already. The Cloud is absolutely huge, and really, the way that we are increasingly relying on technology is a major driver for this business going forward. Every single device is both a point of contact and a way for people to interact with each other. It's also a vulnerability, and so like the more expansive we get with that, the larger the opportunity for a company that is specializing in cybersecurity. Also, a larger opportunity for cybercriminals. It's basically going to work in lockstep for the two of them, and what I thought was interesting in the prospectus is they quoted that cybercrime is a massive $6 trillion business. Brian, I don't think I could have pulled that number out myself. I don't know where they got it from in terms of piecing that together, in terms of cyberattacks. But that's a huge, huge number.
Feroldi: Yes, and it just shows you why the need for cybersecurity products is going to be so big because there is a massive, massive incentive for cybersecurity to take place.
Lewis: Yeah, and basically as a business, you have to look at it like you would be making an insurance payment. You are consistently paying a known amount over time to avoid something catastrophic happening that winds up coming with a really big dollar figure attached to it.
Feroldi: For sure, and given that big of the pie, it's not surprising that the demand for cybersecurity products and tools is growing so rapidly. When you look at the company's total addressable market opportunity that it lays out in its S-1. No surprise here, it's huge. The company pegs that number currently is going to grow to about $40 billion by 2024. As a reminder, this company's revenue over the last year is just about $100 million range. So if this business does not work out, it's not because the TAM isn't there.
Lewis: Yeah. Even if you start itemizing and looking at some of the sub-markets that comprise that $40 billion, so corporate endpoint security, they say it's a 10 billion market in 2021, cybersecurity analytics, intelligence response and orchestration, a $13 billion business in 2021, and the operations management part, a $6 billion business in 2021. All of those have a ton of growth in front of them. To back it up again, you mentioned $100 million, the leader in the space with CrowdStrike, about $1 billion in top-line revenue. The two of them combined are barely scratching the surface of the current opportunity, let alone where this industry is going.
Feroldi: This is not going to be a winner-take-everything market, it could be a winner-take-most market. But that should be an attractive thing for investors. The market for cybersecurity products is so big and so huge that there can definitely be multiple winners in the space.
Lewis: One of the things I always do when I'm looking at an industry that I have a little bit of background in, but could certainly use some help, is looking at what folks who researched the space followed over time say about the industry and the breakout. Really one of the best places to go for that is Gartner, they do wonderful research. One of the first things when I realize we're going to be doing the show, I was like, "All right, what does Gartner have to say with their Magic Quadrant about cybersecurity, and specifically here, endpoint protection platforms?" We have the grid for folks that are familiar. You have your ability to execute, you have the completeness of the vision for the companies in the industry. Basically we're looking in that top-right quadrant, which they identify as the leaders in the space. CrowdStrike and Microsoft are really the go-to leaders as Gartner identifies them, Trend Micro, a distant third, and then SentinelOne comes in there fourth. I think that's SentinelOne, Brian, probably has an industry-shaping position. I wouldn't say it's industry-leading. There are a lot of companies behind them, but there are several big companies in front of them.
Feroldi: Which is funny, because if you go to their website, they pound the table on this, that we are a leader in the market space according to Gartner. It's pretty clear that if you look at their customers, their customers really like the products that they are selling. Their retention rates are high, their customer reviews are high. Again, Gartner has called them out as one of the leaders. But if you're going by this table, there's no doubt that while they're doing a great job, they are still trailing both Microsoft and CrowdStrike on the Magic Quadrant.
Lewis: Yeah. What I think is interesting about that, you made such a great point before about CrowdStrike, not really being that much older as a company and yet look at where they are, in terms of revenue base, in terms of industry standing. For two companies that have come out and tried to do something very similar around the same time, it seems like SentinelOne is a little bit more of the Pepsi to the Coke.
Feroldi: I think that that is a pretty fair statement to make.
Lewis: Yeah. You see it even with the way that they advertise themselves. They know on their own site that they have to convince people to move past legacy players and names that might be a little bit more familiar in consumer and decision-maker minds.
Feroldi: Right on their website, when you're trying to check out the product, they have pages devoted to each of their competitors. You can literally say, compare us to CrowdStrike, compare us to Microsoft, compare us to McAfee. That just shows that obviously when customers are shopping, these are the kind of questions that the business gets. It makes sense given how pervasive CrowdStrike and Microsoft are.
Lewis: Yeah. Personally, I love to see that. I like that they are willing to stack right there and say, "This is who we are and this is how we compare it to the major players." I think it's also indicative. They got to educate the market a little bit on who they are and what they're offering relative to either the legacy players that have been doing this awhile or people that are in that nextgen phase, but maybe are a little bit bigger, have a little bit more name recognition.
Feroldi: That is likely to be one of the reasons that they are spending so aggressively on sales and marketing right now. They know that they have a huge challenge ahead of them to convince the market to buy from them as opposed to CrowdStrike and to Microsoft. It makes sense to me why this company is raising capital and why it's spending so aggressively to expand its footprint right now.
Lewis: Yeah. I think that's probably one of the biggest risks for this business, is that the competition is strong. If you're talking pure players, you have CrowdStrike in there, it's like cybersecurity focus really, and they're already 10 times the revenue base. The other top right in that Magic Quadrant is Microsoft, it's one of the biggest companies in the world. You're coming in here as a smaller company in a lot of ways that offers you the ability to be more nimble, be a little bit more focused on where the industry is going. But you've got to have a pretty darn good product to convince people to move away from the legacy players and from these other deeper pocketed leaders in the industry. The other thing I think, Brian, is this space, and this is table stakes for all the companies in here, this industry is huge when it comes to reputational risk. If there are any cracks in the armor whatsoever, it can be really, really tough for a business to come back from.
Feroldi: Bingo. If a breach gets through and this company is somehow found to be responsible, that would really damage this company's reputation in the industry and seriously hamper this company's ability to grow. So far so good there. Just one comment that I wanted to make about the competition. Yes, they have clearly some huge competition in the space, but as a reminder, this company just doubled its revenue over the past year. It's not like that competition suddenly appeared. They've been competing against those guys the entire way up and they've clearly grown rapidly ever since. That means that something about this company is standing out to a certain subset of customers.
Lewis: Brian, when you put it all together, what do you see when you look at this company? Is it something that you think is an investable idea, something that you're excited about? Is it a watch list stock? Is this something you're staying away from?
Feroldi: Well, let's do a quick review. I think there are some things here for investors to like. I personally like that the company is mission-driven. I like that it's growing, it's top-line over 100% annually. I like that it's a SaaS based business. It has signs of optionality into it and it can rollout more products over time to upsell its customers. I like that it's founder-led. It gets great reviews on Glassdoor. It has a huge total addressable market opportunity and I also really like that this company is coming public and likely will be, let's call it a $5 billion valuation. It's not going to come public at a $20, $30, $50 billion valuation. If this company executes, I could see it being a multibagger. What I don't like about this company is that it's low gross margin. It's gross margin is not near where its competitors are. Hopefully that will grow over time as the company continues to scale. I really don't like that this company is essentially allergic to profits. It is really setting fire to capital at a rapid rate. The inside ownership here is not as high as I would have assumed it would be, given that its founder led prior to the IPO, the CEO only owns about 4% of the business, insiders as a group own about 6%. That's obviously going to be diluted as part of the IPO. That's not as high as I was really expecting. The big problem that I have though is that there wasn't really no wow moment when I was reading through this. Nothing about this business really jumped out at me and grabbed me and said, "I have to own this on day one." I'm glad I know about this business, but if anything, this just heightened my resolve for investing in CrowdStrike.
Lewis: I think it can be hard and that's where I landed with this too, where I only know the space so well and everything that I'm doing is stacking this business against a company that I'm already a little bit more familiar with. By most measures, it seems like CrowdStrike is the better business. If I'm going to take the risk of investing a little bit outside of my core competency and where I really feel technically strong, I would rather do it with a company that seems like the industry leader and has better financials. I think the investment case is a little tough for me. To your point though, Brian, it's a mid-cap company that if it executes, probably looks an awful lot like a multibagger whereas CrowdStrike is a $50 billion business at this point and doubling at that size, the numbers are just bigger.
Feroldi: Yes, for sure. One of the knocks I have against this company has nothing to do with this company's fault, it's focused on endpoint security. I personally already own CrowdStrike. If I was interested in investing in this space some more, I would probably go with a company like KnowBe4. What we talked about previously on this show, which is approaching cybersecurity from the "we train people to be less vulnerable to click baiting". That is a concept that I can understand and that I can get behind. That's not competing with CrowdStrike at all. That's one reason why I'm probably not going to buy this business if I already have this part of my portfolio filled out.
Lewis: That makes sense. I totally get that. We talked about it, but I don't think that there's one winner in this market. But when there is someone who is so much larger already and generally viewed as the industry leader, it does become a little bit tougher and you don't have to invest in everything. You want things to be as easy as possible. For me, there are a couple more things that need to go right here for them as a company. What I will say though is that cybersecurity is a big hairy problem and companies are willing to pay up for other companies that solve big hairy problems for them. There's no shortage of opportunity and tailwinds. A lot to like, and certainly for me, a business I'll be watching even if I'm not buying.
Feroldi: Sure. I totally agree with you there. This company could prove basically both of us wrong and continue growing at a triple digit rate, continue taking market share, get the gross margin higher, clean up the financials and become a phenomenal investment. That is an entirely plausible thing that can happen. The good news is, we don't have to swing on day one, we can watch it over time and see, is it taking market share from CrowdStrike? Is it growing anyway? If that's the case, I'd be happy to revisit this company in six months, a year, and give it a fresh look.
Lewis: Yeah. I think that the telltale signs for me are going to be, can they keep growing because that revenue base is so small, they're going to have to keep posting pretty big growth to sustain the multiples that they're going to get, and do we start to see margin expansion? If we start seeing that, it becomes a much more interesting investable idea for me.
Feroldi: Totally agree.
Lewis: Brian, a treat as always, to be back on the show with you. So much fun to be chatting stocks, and hey, we'll do it again next week.
Feroldi: Sounds like a plan, Dylan.
Lewis: Listeners, that's going to do it for this episode of Industry Focus. If you have any questions or you want to reach out and say "Hey," shoot us an email at email@example.com or tweet us @MFIndustryFocus. If you're looking for more of our stuff, subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. As always, people on the program may own companies discussed on the show and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against stocks mentioned, so don't buy or sell anything based solely on what you hear. Thanks to Tim Sparks for all his work behind the glass today, and thank you for listening. Until next time, Fool on.