In this podcast, Motley Fool co-founder David Gardner highlights 10 standout Motley Fool Rule Breakers episodes from this year, revisiting the ideas, stories, and lessons that lingered long after the microphones were off. And all of the voices behind those moments return for brief cameos, reflecting on the year that was and looking ahead to what comes next.
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A full transcript is below.
This podcast was recorded on Dec. 18, 2025.
David Gardner: Every year, in the 50th week of the year, it's time. Movies have their Oscars, television has its Emmys, Music has its Grammys, and Broadway has its Tonys. I'm not really sure what podcasts are supposed to have, but the one podcast I know best has its besties, calling out the 10 top rule Breaker investing podcasts of the year and not only that, but welcoming back the guest stars, the voices that educated, amused, and enriched all of us in this year that has been. Yes, the stars are back. It's the 50th week of 2025, and now all tied up in a bow for you. Welcome to The Besties of 2025 only on Rule Breaker Investing.
Welcome back to what may be the most special edition of Rule Breaker Investing this year, cameos for many of my favorite guests, looking back on the year that was and ahead to the year to come. It's our Besties of 2025. I've chosen 10 of my favorite podcasts from the 50 we've published this year. These are not ranked. There's no order here. But looking back across a full year now of shows, I ask myself, which 10 really stood out? Let's celebrate them. When possible, let's bring some of those voices back to share a few reflections. A quick word of reassurance to those not selected. Hey, that means 40 podcasts are not on this list, but I thought they were terrific, too. I love all my children. But like the Oscars, Emmys, Grammys, and Tony's, at some point, you have to make some cuts, and here that number is 10. Now, if you missed any of these episodes the first time around, this is your nudge to go back and listen. You are guaranteed to be educated, amused, and enriched. I'm going to share the title and date for each as we go through this week's besties, just in case you want to do a little appointment listening. A big reason I do the besties every year is to surface the most rule breakery conversations that you might have missed. Before we get started, one quick look ahead. Next week is the Market Cap Game Show. It's America's 26th favorite game show. I don't believe I can say we're in the top 25 yet, but for investors, anyway, I'm hoping that we're Number 1. I'm just going to say it now, get the wood in the fireplace, invite the in laws over. Pour a warm cider, traditional or hard, and join us for the holiday edition of next week's Market Cap Game Show. Play long as we conduct the second to last podcast of the year. Then we close the year as always with your Mailbag. If you'd like to be featured, write in with a question, a reflection or an inspiring story. Did I get it right with these besties? Did I miss a gem? Did one of this year's guests change how you think or make your life better? Great. Do tell. Our email is [email protected].
You can also find us on Twitter, X @rbipodcast. If you want to be included, now's the time to write in. Market Cap Game Show next week, year-end mailbag the week after, but today the red carpet is rolled out. Ladies, gentlemen, and fools everywhere, you're invited. Check your mink coats and top hats at the stand, settle in, and welcome to the Rule Breaker Investing Besties of 2025, the podcast that ironically may itself be the best E of the year. Let's get it on. Bestie number 1. A fool for Life with Rick Engdahl was published on June 11 of this year, June 11, 2025, and it earns Bestie because it honored someone central to this podcast's very existence. Rick Engdahl is my now retired producer, the original producer of Rule Breaker Investing, who was there from the very first episode we published in July of 2015 through his final show in June 2025. For 10 nearly uninterrupted years, Rick shaped how this podcast sounded, flowed and felt. Quietly compounding quality episode after episode, while also removing tens of thousands of my whispered 321 go resets along the way. What made this conversation special was hearing Rick step out from behind the glass to reflect on what he learned along the way about investing, business, culture, brand, games, and life itself. He arrived at the Motley Fool without an investing background. He learned in public. He applied the principles and became a living example of rule breaker thinking, holding through volatility, losing to win, and letting time do the heavy lifting. Just as importantly, he reminded us that not all compounding shows up in stock charts, relationships, trust, wisdom, and partnership compound too. For a decade of care, creativity, and generosity behind the scenes, and for a conversation that captured the spirit of Rule Breaker Investing, as well as any episode ever has, this one earns a bestie. Rick Engdahl, thank you for a fool for life, and welcome back for one more cameo, as we celebrate our decade of doing this podcast together, welcome.
Rick Engdahl: Thank you, David. It's great to be back. Although, once again, I find myself uncomfortably on the wrong side of the glass here in front of the microphone.
David Gardner: Rick, I have to say, since we're seeing each other and it's been about six months, I'm going to say you look mostly the same. Your hair might be a little bit longer. It implies to me that music has become even more a part of your life, maybe some composition, maybe performance. I'm not sure, but at least hair.
Rick Engdahl: Actually, doing some more writing and getting into the studio. I hope to have some more music to release later this year.
David Gardner: That is fantastic. Well, I have two questions that I ask every Bestie's cameo guest, and I think you already know them because you were on the other side of the glass for years doing this. Rick, let's go with our first one, which is any reflections you now have? Looking back, it's been six months on that podcast we did together, or the world at large.
Rick Engdahl: I did go back and listen to it again, and I was cringing to do so because I hate to hear myself speak. Let's just say I was pleasantly surprised. It actually came off pretty well. I enjoyed listening to it again. I think those points that I brought to the show were really just a reflection of those 25 years at the Fool, and it was really nice to be able to reflect on that and share that with people. I've had the opportunity to, as you do, in conversations just share that side of my life with people over the last six months, too, just friends and family and all. That's been fun. Since then, you know, life has just gone on minus the podcast. I feel like if 25 years of career, if those were my caterpillar years, I am not yet a beautiful butterfly. I'm the goo in the Chrysalis at the moment, and still working things out as far as what's next in life.
David Gardner: Really well said. Briefly, I thought you were talking about being a shareholder in Caterpillar. Caterpillar Inc.
Rick Engdahl: No, I'm not. But that's what we do on this show.
David Gardner: Rick, my second question. You know what's coming here. What is a wish? An interesting thought or a prediction you have for the year. 2026.
Rick Engdahl: Team USA is going to make it to the semifinals of the World Cup. I think that is both a wish and a thought and a prediction. I don't know if that's what you're looking for.
David Gardner: That absolutely works. It's both a wish, an interesting thought and a prediction.
Rick Engdahl: I have another prediction that has been on my mind recently, just randomly, that I think might show up around the World Cup. I think that 2026 is the year that the public becomes more aware of the idea of drone style, vertical takeoff air taxis. It's a thing. It's out there. I think it's going to start to reach public awareness in the way that WeMo has. You start seeing it around cities. I think that we're going to start to see it. I wouldn't be surprised to see something pop up around the World Cup and carding people around.
David Gardner: Electric vehicle takeoff and landings. I see a lot of videos on the Internet these days, and it's not just from one company. I'm seeing multiple competitors giving the opportunity for you and me to sit in a Jetsons like experience and just buzz around. As I watch those videos, Rick, I'm always like, how long does the battery last? I'm thinking these are not exactly four hour flights.
Rick Engdahl: I've seen a lot of those videos, too, with the small personal drones. But I guess there's two main players, Joby and Archer, which are the companies that are looking at things more commercially. I actually owned some shares in Joby and have for a while after, I think, a piece from Alice Momax back in the day got me interested, and I did a little work, and I compared the two and decided that Joby was the one to go with. In retrospect, why I pick one? I probably should have just picked both.
David Gardner: You still can.
Rick Engdahl: Still can. I think that regardless of where things are now, I know that I'm not someone who looks at the financials of these companies. I'll trust Allos Lomax of the world to do that. But I think it's a clear future that these things will be part of our lives in the next 10 years or so. It's worth taking a peek?
David Gardner: I think it was the LA Olympics. Was it 1984? Do you remember? It was either the opening ceremonies or early on. There was a guy who put a jetpack on his back and lifted off from one side of the stadium and landed on the other. I think I saw that with sub 21-year-old eyes thinking, this is amazing. It's all going to happen, jetpacks. I don't think I've seen anybody do that since, but there's something around the Olympics or maybe the World Cup Rick that can bring out this innovation.
Rick Engdahl: Did a really good job of hiding the wires on that.
David Gardner: Well, Rick, thank you so much for joining back with us. Once again, I look forward to whenever we next do a podcast together, would love to have you back when you have something to report, or we could just kick it around Joby and Archer Interactive sometime in the years ahead. But in the meantime, Merry Christmas to you. Happy New Year to the Engdalhs. I hope you have a wonderful 2026 and Fool on, my friend.
Rick Engdahl: Likewise, back at you. Thanks for having me.
David Gardner: Oh, and I want to mention that little musical riff and interlude in between besties is courtesy of longtime listener Eric DeVor, who's not just a rule Breaker investor, but professionally is also a composer who's done music for film, TV, and video games. Shout out ahead of time to Eric DeVor for that ten second interlude throughout. On to Bestie number 2. It was entitled Three Fools with Morgan Housel and Randy Zuckerberg. The date was January 22nd, right at the start of 2025, and it earns a Besties because it brought together two extraordinary thinkers whose work spans money, technology, creativity, and life. Then we let curiosity do the rest. I was joined by Morgan Housel and Randy Zuckerberg. The conversation unfolded as a shared exploration of how stories shape our decisions, our careers, and our understanding of risk and opportunity. Several moments lingered. Randy's early accidental exposure to bitcoin, being paid in what her husband once dismissed as pirate money, was a perfect illustration of how learning often begins with lived experience rather than theory. Morgan's reminder that the best story wins helped explain why not numbers alone, narratives move markets and people alike. Between Broadway Dreams, Lemon Meringue Pie, and George Carlin, the episode made clear that storytelling isn't just a communication skill, it's a survival skill. For the generosity, insight, and good humor, each of you brought to this first ever Three Fools episode. This one earns a bestie, and this may have been our single best episode of the podcast this year. I loved it. It was a conversation that felt both timeless and immediately useful. Well, Morgan Housel and Randy Zuckerberg, thank you for leaning in so fully. It's great to have you back on Rule Breaker Investing.
Morgan Housel: Very good to be here.
Randi Zuckerberg: To be back.
David Gardner: Randy, I'll turn to you first. We did this podcast almost a full year ago now January 22nd, and I definitely want to point out for Randy fans and fools everywhere that you rejoined for our May Mailbag to then tell the full story of your run across Arizona. I'm speaking pretty literally there, by the way, for new listeners, her run across Arizona. But Randy, anything you want to reflect back on either from that podcast to your run to anything else worth highlighting in your year 2025.
Randi Zuckerberg: Thanks so much. First of all, we might have to make this a regular tradition, the three of us. I feel like the two of you are my good luck charm. I will say, I truly can't believe that we're at the end of the year. When I look back, my life has radically changed in the past 2-3 years and really changed this year. I had this little thought in the back of my head after 20 years of working in tech, thinking, I want to be a professional ultramarathon runner. I was never on my bingo card in life. I'm 44-years-old. Who thinks they want to be a professional athlete in their 40s? But this year, I completed that 250 mile ultra marathon race across Arizona. I was actually one of only 150 women in the world to have completed a 200 or more mile distance this year. Then in August, I went on to race a 100-mile race, and I actually broke the female course record for the 100 mile race. It's been a wild year. Then I wound up the year with a tear in my hip cartilage, which, not shocking, seems like there's probably no correlation between those two things that I just mentioned. But that, I think, wound up actually being my biggest lesson in resiliency of the entire year, even more so than running across Arizona.
Morgan Housel: Wow, that's amazing.
David Gardner: Well, what an incredible year it has been, Randy, any one of those things with the exception of tearing cartilage would be an amazing lifetime achievement for me. I think most of us listening right now, and you did it all in one year. Thank you so much for sharing part of that journey. I hadn't even known about your August record. That's phenomenal.
Randi Zuckerberg: Thank you.
David Gardner: I'm excited for you for 2026. Morgan, Best story wins, and you told some humdingers in our January 22nd podcast. First of all, congratulations on the art of spending money sitting right here at my desk side, and just another phenomenal Morgan Household best-seller on the topic that matters a lot to a lot of our listeners. Money.
Morgan Housel: Well, thank you, David. Huge congratulations to you for your book coaming out this year, as well.
David Gardner: Thanks.
Morgan Housel: It's always a slog to get these things out, I think. I'm always astounded when I walk into a bookstore, and you can see, 100,000 books, whatever they have on the shelves, and you realize that every single one of those was a year or more of torture for that author's life to get that thing out into the world. It's not an easy thing, so huge congratulations to you, as well. Two kind of thoughts in my life this year. They weren't really specific to 2025, but the two things that I started thinking about a little bit more. One was, it's become so obvious. In AI that investors are obsessed with trying to find bubbles. Now, I think that's actually unique in the history of investing to the last 20 years or so. I think it started, of course, with the.com bubble and then moved into the housing bubble from there. It's actually not a common thing, if you look at the last century of investors that whenever there's a new technology, people just cannot just habitually stop saying, bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble. David, I think you have in many ways, made your successful career as an investor of exploiting what I think is that bias of investors. Every time they see something growing at more than 5% per year, they say, This cannot last. This is going to end. I think it's become so apparent when we now have what is probably the most incredible technology of our lives so far, and in a grander way than celebrating what it is, there is more emphasis and storytelling around how it's all going to end. It's not to say that bubbles don't exist, of course, there is a long history of poor investment going back to the railroad bubbles of the 1800s. That exists, of course. It's just interesting to me that whenever something is so great that there is an immediate habitual knee-jerk spin to say, Maybe it's not as great as you think, though. That's been an interesting observation for me.
The second thing I'll think about to take a completely different turn here, I started thinking about this because someone asked me about this on a podcast several months ago. I've been a big saver and a big investor since I was 16, had my first job, and was earning minimum wage, doing nothing. I was saving a lot. I think back to those times when I was 16, 17 years old, if I saved $100, that was heroic for a 17-year-old. That was a month of work or more of earning minimum wage and grinding menial jobs to save $100 was a big deal. That was also $100 of dinners with my friends that I avoided, of road trips that I didn't take. Let's say I invested that money, which I did. Today, because I invested it, that $100 let's say it's worth $500. It's probably something like that. $500 to me today does not do anything. It doesn't really move any needles. Then the question is, and this was the question that was proposed to me, was that a waste? Because I could have, when I was 17, gone out for dinner with my friends, gone out for a road trip, instead, I invested it into amount of money that means nothing to me today. Was it a waste? My response that I've been thinking a lot about this was, no, because what it did is it taught me saving and investing skills that I would not have been able to implement today unless I had that muscle memory that was built when I was 16 or 17. Not only was it not a waste, it was unbelievably valuable, and the value of it is not the $500 that it turned into. It was the saving habits that it built up over the years that I can now implement today. I think that when you're young, because we hear this from so many young savers and investors, why save $25? Why invest $50? It's such a small amount of money. It doesn't mean anything. It's not the dollar amount of returns. It's the habits and the skills that you are forming that will pay off in an unbelievable way when you reach your higher earning years. Those are the two things I've been thinking about.
David Gardner: Really well said. There's the marshmallow test given to little kids. Can you not eat that marshmallow for 10 minutes as the adult walks out of the room? In addition to pointing out that the kids who didn't eat the marshmallow actually get three marshmallows as a reward, something like that. More importantly, Morgan, studies show that they get, like, higher SAT scores, they all kinds of better things come to the people who practice better character or make develop better habits. Really appreciate the point. I also love your point about bubbles. Often the best comedians, and that was part of what we talked about, Randy and Morgan. Especially Morgan was bringing in our love and appreciation of comedians and how powerful they are being truth tellers. But part of what they do is what you just did, Morgan, which is you say something that's been on all our minds, but subconsciously, latently, and you bring it to the Fool, and you just did it with bubble. Because until you said that I hadn't really been thinking about it. I'm listening to the bubble talk. You're right. I don't really care about it, and I'm happy to ride out every so-called bubble, and I don't even like the metaphor bubbles pop and disappear. markets and technologies don't always come back, so it's always been the wrong for me, metaphor, but hilarious. You're right. I'm going to start ignoring that talk even more. I actually wish I could spend this entire Bestie with you both, but we do have eight other awards to give. Let me press forward with my important closing question. Morgan, I'll go to you first. Morgan Housel, what is a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction you have for the year 2026?
Morgan Housel: I would say this is a prediction, but more so a wish, because I would never make a prediction for something that's going to happen in the next 12 months. History doesn't work like that. I would say, though, and this might sound preposterous to listeners, and my message is that's the point. I think there's a long history in politics that attitudes are cyclical. That you go through periods when there's a lot of civility and cooperation and periods when there are not. We are obviously today and for the last ten or 20 years in a period of lack of civility, lack of cooperation of people. It seems preposterous, I think, to say that in the cyclical nature of those events, that we could easily look back at this era or maybe this year, 20 years from now and say that was a generational bottom. That we grew out of in terms of civility and cooperation. That would seem preposterous, but it also would have sounded preposterous if I told you in the 1960s that that was close to a generational bottom, from which we were about to emerge into the '80s and '90s of civility and cooperation, at least relatively. If I told you in the 1930s, that that was a generational bottom, from which we were about to emerge from, it would have sounded preposterous. See, in the late 1800s, it was another era. There's all these cycles of civility in our public discourse, and it's so negative right now and so bad, no matter what you believe. That just on that level alone, it would not surprise me if we look back at this being a bottom. Again, that's part prediction. Mostly wish.
David Gardner: It is definitely an interesting thought, and I found myself giggling a little bit as you were talking, Morgan, but it's really not funny. I don't know why I was doing that. I think it's because it has gotten so extreme and ridiculous. As somebody who doesn't believe we should be using words like left and right, because it completely oversimplifies. I don't identify with either, and it's so silly. Blue and red. We keep doing these binary pairings that are not even real, but we start reifying them and making them real when we say them over and over. at a certain point, all a Fool can really do is throw up his hands and laugh a little bit. But I so appreciate that wish, and it is an interesting thought. Let's go to Prediction 2, Morgan. You didn't make a prediction on this podcast, but you may have.
Morgan Housel: I always shy away from predictions because the history of them is so bad. That's why I'm saying mostly wish.
David Gardner: Understood. Thank you. Randy Zuckerberg, what is a wish? An interesting thought or prediction you have for the year 2026?
Randi Zuckerberg: I think I'll go with a personal one and then a broader one. Personally for me, I'm trying to marry my professional and personal interests more this year. Not only have I been running for sport, but I've also been investing in running companies and tech related to endurance sports. I had my first exit of an AI-run coaching company that was purchased by Strava this year. Thank you. It's been really fun for me. I like to say why just play Blackjack when you can own the whole casino. I just joined the board of New York Road Runners, which puts on the New York City Marathon and 40 other races. That's been really exciting for me, and that's a personal wish to continue into the New Year that I can wake up every day with my personal and professional interests so aligned. I think more broadly on that same path, I really want to see more research and studies done on women's longevity and endurance sports. There's a few interesting stats. The longer the distance, the later in life athletes peak. It's very common to see in these long endurance sports like Iron Man and endurance, like people in their late 40s and early 50s, doing incredibly. Actually, the longer the distance gets, women start to outperform men. There are just so few studies because I think it was only 50 years ago that women were even allowed to run the marathon. Like, literally, doctors thought our uterus would fall out of our body if we ran the marathon. There's no research on women entering perimenopause and menopause, even though they're peaking in these endurance sports. That's my big wish for 2026 is I women's longevity and health and endurance is going to be a multi trillion dollar field, and I'm really excited to see that start to come into fruition.
David Gardner: That is fantastic, and I look forward to keeping my eyes on that as well. I've certainly always heard that women do better with longer events, but as we get older, that we actually become even better. Randy, it seems to suggest to me in some ways that the wisdom that we gain, and I know so much of what you've taught us about ultra run is that it's actually psychological. I presume that as we age, we actually presumably, a lot of us get better at those things and therefore are even more resilient.
Randi Zuckerberg: Yes, and I think we used to think you're done when you're 40 or 50. Now with modern medicine, and research, and longevity science, we're just getting started. The medicine and the research, and it just isn't there yet to match that. I think we're entering a really exciting era.
David Gardner: It's clearly coming. Thank you for that. Morgan and Randy, thank you for the stories, the laughter, and the perspective. You made us smarter this year without ever making it feel like homework. I'm grateful for the time, and I look forward to win our pass next Cross again. Best wishes to you both for 2026 and Fool on.
Morgan Housel: Same to you, David. Thank you.
Randi Zuckerberg: Thanks.
David Gardner: Bestie number 3 goes to ten years later. Five stocks for the next five years. That podcast debut on September 3, it kicked off a brand new series. Ten years later offers something remarkably uncommon in investing media. A clear-eyed look at full 10-year outcomes. Over time, we'll revisit all 35 stock samplers, as each comes of age, each turning the age of ten. This first episode returned to my very first sampler from September 2015. It was entitled Five Stocks For the Next Five Years back then to see and learn from what time has since revealed. Spoiler alert, crushing the market averages with your stock picks never hurts either. To understand why this all matters, it helps to recall the experiment itself. Over several years on this podcast, I introduced 30 different five-stock samplers, small baskets of stocks each built around a theme. Some of the themes were playful, some timely, some deliberately odd. All were chosen transparently, tracked publicly, and revisited with the same intent. Let's learn from everything, including the mistakes. We answered the biggest questions. Is picking individual stocks worth it? Is beating the market luck? How big can your winners and your losers really get? Well, last year's besties included my review of Palooza Ultima podcast, which in 2024 marked a major checkpoint in that experiment. We scored all 30 samplers together in that podcast, 150 stocks in total across their standard three-year windows and beyond.
Again, that was last year, where that episode showed in aggregate how rewarding consistently picking and buying Rule Breakers can be. It also showed how losing even badly looms, I would say, too large in our collective psyche, and why losing to win isn't a flaw of this approach, it's a defining feature. This year's kickoff 10 Years Later episode took the next natural step by extending the scorecard itself. Instead of asking how these stocks looked after three years, it asked what a full decade reveals when you're willing to keep watching. The lessons deepen. Buyouts that weren't failures, companies that quietly compounded, others that faded, and the outsized influence of a single great winner. There was humor along the way, samplers that resembled four weddings in a funeral, all of our silly lore around full hala, but the real value is perspective earned the slow way. Most importantly, this episode invited listeners to sit with nuance, with numbers, with the rare chance to see investing decisions properly aged. By launching our 10 Years Later series, it signals a new phase of our experiment, one that doesn't just pick and track but revisits and reflects.
For explaining the experiment clearly, extending it meaningfully and showing what a 10 year view can teach that shorter windows simply can't years later, five stocks for the next five years earns a Bestie. We've already aired the second 10 Years Later episode that was in November, and the next will arrive in February. I wonder how five stocks to feed the Bear has been doing. by the way, every ten weeks thereafter, another decade comes due. Bestie number 4. This one started. Well, the date was August 13th, 2025. But really, I first got to know Sam Horn a few years before that thanks to conscious capitalism and the longtime CEO summit in Austin, Texas. Sam appeared on our Authors in August series, talking on Egg Shells, her book with Sam Horn. It earns a Bestie because it delivered something rare. Practical wisdom for the conversations we actually have. This was in theory or platitude. Sam Horn brought decades of experience helping people replace verbal land mines with stepping stones, showing us that hard conversations don't have to be hard if we know what to say, and just as importantly, what not to say. What stayed with me were the tools that immediately stick, the eyebrow test for intrigue, her line, fight fire with water. Reframing confrontation as clarification. One line that has echoed for me all year long here in 2025, swap, but for A. As Sam put it, if we say but, we cancel out what came before. I really liked your performance. It was great. But and the word moves the conversation forward. These weren't just clever turns of phrase. They were usable scripts. I would say reminder cards for real life that make us better colleagues, partners, and humans the very next day. for the clarity, generosity, and calm authority Sam Horn brought to this conversation, and for an episode that made many of us pause, reflect, and speak a little more thoughtfully. This one earns a Bestie. Sam Horn, thank you for joining us during Authors in August. Welcome back for a short cameo as we celebrate the together.
Sam Horn: Thanks so much, David. I'm looking forward to sharing a wish and a reflection with your community.
David Gardner: Excellent. We're going to go there very shortly. But before we do, Sam, first, well, it's been almost exactly four months since we last saw each other. Any reflections either on that podcast we did together or on how life's been for you the last four months?
Sam Horn: David, I think I'm going to say something that's a bit of a surprise. We didn't spend enough time on humor. Do you know how Einstein knew he had a good idea?
David Gardner: No.
Sam Horn: He laughed out loud. Think about it. It's the aha combined with the ha ha, right? The lights go on, and the band plays. Now you're thinking, Sam, what does that have to do with talking on eggshells? Well, I think we would agree that things are contentious these days, and we can be annoyed, we can be offended, or we can be amused. Now, let me give you a real-life example of how this works. I'm at the San Francisco airport. I'm on one of those lazy sidewalks. You know what I'm talking about?
David Gardner: Yeah, I use them all the time. I love those things.
Sam Horn: I'm on one. There's a very tall man coming the opposite direction. I can't believe it. There's people in front of me pointing at him and laughing. I'm thinking, This is so rude. There's no excuse for this. When he cut closer, I could see why they were laughing. He had on a T-shirt and very large letters, it said, No, I'm not a basketball player. I got to the end of the lazy sidewalk, and I chased after him, and I caught up. I said, "This is brilliant." I said, "How did you come up with this?" He said, "This is nothing." He said, "I have a whole drawer full of these at home." He turned around and guess what the back of his T-shirt said?
David Gardner: It's going to be something funny, but I'm not going to dare guess.
Sam Horn: It's, "Are you a jockey?" [LAUGHTER] He said, "I grew a foot between the time I was 13 and 16-years-old and I didn't even want to go outside. Everyone's got to make a smart, Alec remark. My mom finally said, 'If you can't beat them, join them.'" He said, "I've got other shirts that are just as funny. One of them is, the weather up here is fine." [LAUGHTER] I'm 6'13". David, here's the point. He said, "Ever since I started wearing these shirts I have had fun with my height instead of being frustrated by my height." Now, I think he didn't want to go outside because he was so offended, annoyed with people's remarks. Once he lightened up instead of fighting up, now he can have fun with it instead of being frustrated by it. That's one of the reflections.
David Gardner: I love it. Even in the context of just casual human relations there was no particular tension around the lazy walker at the airport. But we are living in a time where there are some hard conversations and just trying to diffuse through the use of the power tool of humor. Sam, you do that so well. You did it on that podcast we did together. You just did it right now, and thank you, not just for embodying it, but for the reminder for each of us here. In the holiday season, maybe there's some family tension around a tree or two. I certainly hope not, but a reminder that humor is, I'm not going to say the great equalizer, but it's at least the great normalizer human relations. I kept using that phrase stepping stone instead of landmine when I thought about your work and our conversation, and specifically your book, Talking With Egg Shells. You've written a number of them. Sam, my second question, my parting question for you is, what is a wish, an interesting thought or a prediction you have for the year 2026?
Sam Horn: My wish for 2026 is in alignment with what we just talked about. I hope that we replace infobesity with an aha or a haha. Once again, I'll give you an example. I'm working with a friend and a client, Denise Brosseau, who is founder of the Thought Leadership Lab on her TEDx Talk in her book. We reviewed her book, and it wasn't infobesity, David, because it had actionable insights, real life examples. It was dense. It was a little bit dry. I will always be grateful to Gary Marshall, who is the director of Pretty Woman, because he said something at the Maui Writers Conference that I use in my books in my presentations and with my clients. He said, Hollywood directors can predict when their comedies will make money by one thing. You know what it was?
David Gardner: Since I've read your stuff, I think it's something like are people walking out of the theater afterwards, laughing or saying the key takeaway line, is that it?
Sam Horn: Well, that is true. Can they repeat anything they heard word for word? He also said something equally brilliant. He said, "Do people laugh in the first two minutes of the movie?" Laugh early, laugh often. Because see, if we laugh early, we've just made a decision that this isn't going to be so bad after all. This isn't going to be boring or hard work or something, and it increases its likeability which means we're more likely to pay attention. When I told Denise that, I said, so we need to lighten up this book because it's brilliant. It's just too serious. It's bordering on infobesity TMI, too long didn't read. I asked her, "What's made you laugh out loud recently?" She said, "Sam, there's nothing funny about Thought Leadership." I said, "That's not what I asked." I said, "What has made you laugh out loud"? Now, she's a Stanford professor. She's in Silicon Valley, and she thought, and then she lit up. David, I knew we had something. She said, "A friend is having a baby, and I needed a gift for the baby shower. I went to our local Babies R Us and I found the perfect gift. I'm waiting in line. There's a couple in front of me. The woman's about eight months pregnant, and they're buying a crib for their newborn, and they're arguing. The woman says, 'I don't know. This looks pretty complicated. I don't know if we're going to be able to put it together,' and the guy said, 'I'll ask the cashier.' He asked the cashier, 'Do you think we're going to be able to put this together ourselves?' She looked at him all innocence and said, 'Well, do you have advanced degrees?' He puffed up a little bit. He says, 'Yes, I have an MBA, and my wife has a PhD.' She said, 'Then you're going to need to hire someone.''' [LAUGHTER] Now think early in a TEDx Talk, she could say, "And now, you don't need an advanced degree to be a Thought Leader." See, she could tell him, Infobesity, information. No. What's a real life example that makes you laugh? Now, hook and hinge it back to your topic. Tell the example. Then were you thinking maybe you need an advanced degree to be a thought leader? You see how when we replace important information and we make it interesting by replacing infobesity with an aha and a haha we increase our liability. We increase our listenability.
David Gardner: I just came for the laughs, but what I ended up getting was some good TEDx coaching. I don't think I'm giving a TEDx talk in 2026, but I'm quite sure at least one of our listeners is, Sam, and thank you for that additional insight. Thank you for helping us replace eggshells with stepping stones. I am grateful, Sam Horn, for your clarity, your generosity, and the calm confidence that you bring to hard conversations. Sam, I wish you a year full of good dialogue and being a force for good.
Sam Horn: Thank you, David.
David Gardner: Fool on. Now on to Bestie Number 5. The date was June 4, 2025, right about the middle of this year. Mind Your PQ with Shirzad Chamine. It earns a Bestie. Yes, this makes Shirzad a repeat Bestie's winner. What made his return so special was how naturally it built on our earlier conversations while meeting the moment that we're living in now in a world that feels faster, louder, sometimes a bit more stressed, maybe than usual. Shirzad didn't just revisit positive intelligence, he showed us why it may be more helpful today than when we first spoke back in 2020 and 2021. Several moments stayed with me, but one in particular keeps echoing Shirzad's reminder that pain is useful but only for a second, just long enough to get the message. Then it's time to shift from saboteur to Sage. Whether he was unpacking, you'll be happy when, or urging us to remember who you are. Or explaining why the PQ channel matters more than the data channel. This episode delivered what the very best self development conversations do, language we can actually use. As one listener put it after earlier conversations with Shirzad, this work doesn't just inform, it changes how you show up. For returning with clarity, humility, and fresh insight, and for continuing to help us quiet our inner Darth Vaders and strengthen our inner Jedi. This episode, appearing on June 4 of this year, earns another Bestie, and Shirzad Chamine thank you for coming back, for raising our mental fitness, for reminding us that being positively intelligent may be one of the most rule breaker things we can do.
Shirzad Chamine: David, I love that intro. I am so delighted to be back here.
David Gardner: Thank you. I hope that the last six months have treated you well. We were talking just offline that you just got back from a wedding in Cabo or something like that. It sounds you're living the good life right now, Shirzad, but I suspect that's been true for a while.
Shirzad Chamine: Yes, I hope we are teaching everybody to turn whatever life they have into the good life and start living it today. We all have access to that.
David Gardner: That is such a wonderful thought. Indeed, you and I were also talking about how when you share a good idea like positive intelligence or a good stock pick with somebody, there's no reason not to just hope that they'll share that with somebody else, and the sharing keeps going. There's such a win-win when we exchange information and best thoughts with fellow humans. I don't think we can ever do that too much. You've also pointed out to me, Shirzad that what you've been building out, your whole PQ network really was global. Before COVID had us all working remotely, you were already operating at a scale around the world. I think what you're here to tell us, well, this is not the purpose of your return, but let's just go here briefly is that remote work can be very meaningful and very effective. It doesn't play second fiddle to that 9:00-5:00 office culture we all grew up with.
Shirzad Chamine: Yes. We think that if you have the right culture and the right tools you can absolutely build deeply intimate and trusting relationships with people you have never met. Our company has been remote, global before pandemic made it more popular. We have people we are working with whom we have never met, and yet the level of trust and intimacy and connection and creativity that's possible is absolutely comparable to those who work in person. It is possible if you have the right tools and energize the right part of the brain among all the participants which is the work we do.
David Gardner: You for sharing that. Shirzad, we last saw each other six months ago. Any new developments, anything you want to share or reflecting back on the latter half of 2025?
Shirzad Chamine: Actually, I just came back from a wedding, as I was sharing with you, and it was a large wedding in Cabo, and the person who was asked to officiate the wedding was actually a CEO of a relatively well known company. He gave a very thoughtful, very inspiring officiating of the wedding ceremonies. Then afterwards, he came and introduced himself to me. I had not met him before. He said, that he has been using our work, our mental fitness program, our app guided Positive Intelligence program, and he said before that he was actually quite anxious in public speaking, and he had used these methods of developing self command over your mind to him being able to deliver a very different ceremony in front of all these people. His wife was there, and he said they have just given birth to a child just six days ago. They were there with a six day old brand new baby. His wife said that she had been quite anxious before the birth, wanting very much to have it be a natural childbirth and not use any medication or pain medicine. But was really terrified of that. She said that she switched into using I think the PQ methods and calmed herself so much that she was able to actually not use any medication and give birth, which was the first time I've heard this application of our Positive Intelligence work giving natural birth without any pain medication. I asked her if I could tell that story, and she said, yes. I think the main thing that I want to say is I'm a big fan of meaningful coincidences. Just before this session, I happened to run into two people have used this work for a profound level of self mastery, self command over their own mind, and it had allowed them to step into a new Jedi level clarity and ability. That's maybe the message that I want to bring in that I would love. If you ask yourself the question, if you were able to develop much stronger self command over your own mind, what would be one area that you would really want to apply it to? In her case, it was giving birth without medication. In his case, it was delivering ceremony that he did in a very relaxed, thoughtful, loving way, without the fear. What would it be for you if you were to be able to use these methods of positive intelligence to develop far greater self command over your own mind, which is the muscle that we build. What would you want to apply it to first and foremost? What's the transformation you would seek? Hopefully that would inspire you to say, I want to go build that muscle and then go back and listen to the podcast and do those practices so that you can develop those muscles.
David Gardner: Thank you. Yes, all of our besties, when we do this once a year, is always an advertisement to go back and listen for any listeners who may have missed any of these 10 special podcasts this year to go back, and I obviously feel exactly the same about this one, Shirzad. I highly recommend anybody who is at a point in their life where they could use a little bit of positive reinforcement or maybe just rethinking things would really enjoy our conversation Mind Your PQ with Shirzad Chamine June 4 of this year. Of course, your book Positive Intelligence sits back waiting for any readers to come and dip into its pages and go a little bit deeper than just a podcast. But thank you for that. I was just thinking about this because I don't know if you're an NFL football fan, but there was a remarkable occurrence in this past weekend where a quarterback took over a winning team starting and he had not played in five years, and he was the age of 44. His name is Philip Rivers. He was quarterback in the Indianapolis Colts. Actually played pretty well. His team lost by a couple of points. It wasn't his fault. But the emotional outpouring in the press conference afterwards, specifically from him. He looked at the camera and spoke to the media, and he said, "I hope the kids that I coach back home," because what he was doing was coaching high school football as a retired quarterback, "I hope them and my family will know and see that I wasn't scared, that I tried this." It would have been very easy for any 44-year-old or in my case, 59-year-old to say, I'm going to take a pass on this one. I don't want to take that risk to my health or my reputation, but what a remarkable example for all of us.
Shirzad Chamine: That's a great example of self command. We absolutely use this work with a lot of athletes because athletes choke in the most important moments of their professional career precisely because the voices in their head or all the negative voices about, don't you dare fail. If you fail, it's going to be the end of your career. The very fact that we have those voices so loud brings that reality, and so self command is about how do you quiet those voices and command your mind to focus on what's needed right now, which is what he was doing. That's an awesome example.
David Gardner: Thank you for that reminder, Shirzad Chamine. The second and final question for you, What is a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction that you have for 2026?
Shirzad Chamine: We talk about saboteurs in your brain versus Sage. All saboteurs are fear based. All saboteurs are instruments of fear and anxiety in trying to survive. Old Sage is about love. Fear and love are the two forces that make life possible, and too often we are being run by fear. The way we operate is how do we minimize the chances of things that we are afraid of happening? Our focus is too much in minimizing the fear based outcomes. I would wish for everyone to start focusing on not that, but maximizing the love based outcomes. Instead of minimizing fear, my imitation is for you. Ask yourself, what is it that you love that you want to have more of and maximize starting with yourself? Rather than beating yourself up about what you don't like about yourself, how can you be less of that? I would love for you to really ask yourself, what do you love about yourself and how do you bring that even more to fruition? Start with yourself. What do you love about yourself that you want to bring out more, and then look at your partners, your loved ones, people around you. Rather than beating them up for what's irritating about them and wanting to have less of that, I would love for you to focus on what you love about them, and how do you bring more of that out of them, more of their beautiful sage being. Because everybody around us is far more magnificent than they realize or often we realize, and we get to bring out the best in others by just focusing on what's possible for them and loving them for it and having them feel and see that in themselves and bringing more of that in them. I'd love focusing the next year to be on love rather than fear and bringing more of what you love, and less of what you.
David Gardner: I love that. Thank you, Shirzad. For 2026 for all Shirzad, thank you for reminding us that the loudest voice in our heads doesn't have to win, and I'm grateful for your wisdom. I hope the year ahead for you is very high PQ.
Shirzad Chamine: Awesome, David, I hope the same for you.
David Gardner: Bestie number six goes to Blast from the Past Volume 11 Character, which appeared on the first day of October 10, 125. It's an episode that champions the revisiting of old ideas, which can be just as powerful as introducing new ones or sometimes even more so. In a year full of national noise and hot takes, this episode chose a different path. I return to a handful of enduring principles about how I believe you can and will win in life, and why character matters and what it looks like. Fred Rogers sweater included. I took profound pleasure in sharing back in that episode the merits of first being a foreperson. Second, on seeking out and curating wildly different types of friendships. Third, on accepting responsibility and blaming no one. Fourth, on judging ourselves by results while extending grace toward others' intentions. Wasn't trying to throw down abstract ideas or motivational slogans in 40 minutes of focus talk. I was giving you a handful of the best thoughts leading to the best actions that I have seen in life.
Any one of those four practical lived examples is, I hope, deeply enriching taken together, though. I hope they point toward a way of living and investing that leaves the campfire way, way better than you found it. I also hope that episode felt in some ways like a pause button, not from the world, but within it. A reminder that how we invest, how we work, and how we treat one another all spring from the same source for bringing timeless lessons back into the present with clarity, intended kindness, and conviction, blast from the past, volume 11, character earns a bestie. Onto Lucky number seven. Bestie number seven was in the seventh month of this year. It was July 23, 2025, when Wimbledon champion and fool Sam Verbeek rejoined with this podcast. That podcast earned a Bestie because it captured, to me, one of the most vivid long-game stories we've ever had told on this podcast. Sam walked us through an almost cinematic sequence of events, a desperate rule-bending drive across Florida. Changing clothes on a golf cart with seconds to spare, winning a match he nearly missed, and using that one improbable break as the spark that ultimately carried him all the way to center court at Wimbledon.
Years of patience, preparation, and persistence suddenly compounded, and the payoff could not have been larger. What made the episode resonate even more was how naturally Sam connected elite athletics with investing from surviving his meme stock baptism in 2021 to staying invested through the brutal markets of 2022. By the way, that was when he first joined us on Rule Breaker Investing and won his first bestie that year. From dollar-cost averaging to paying himself first, Sam showed how financial literacy, mindset, and discipline travel well across domains, and his reflections on zero-sum tennis versus positive-sum investing, his appreciation for long-term compounding his repeated Atlanta trips for neurological training all underscored the same principle that real progress is built quietly, then revealed suddenly. Again, the date was July 23, 2025. If you didn't get to hear my podcast that week with Sam, you'll see how rewarding it is now to go back and listen. for the humility, curiosity, and joy Sam brought to this conversation, and for reminding us that Lucky favors the prepared, whether in markets or mixed doubles. This episode earns Bestie and Sam. You've now won Wimbledon, and you've won your second bestie. I'm not saying one is bigger than the other, but I am curious how you're processing this moment.
Sam Verbek: Well, first of all, thank you for having me back. It's a real honor. Multiple-time bestie winner is something that I'd like to put on my resume.
David Gardner: It is a delight to have you and Sam. As we scheduled this time together this week, you are calling in from where?
Sam Verbek: Atlanta, Georgia.
David Gardner: Is that because you're back for some neurological training?
Sam Verbek: That's right. I chose to do what they call preseason here, so my preparation for the upcoming 2026 season at George Chiropractic Neurology Center, where I've been going for years now already, to prepare my body and also just my brain for hopefully another successful season coming next year.
David Gardner: You did reference that in our July podcast, but since you are in Atlanta right now, I'm just curious, Sam, what is it like a day at the center? How are you spending your time? What does it consist of? I'm sure a lot of listeners are curious exactly how it works.
Sam Verbek: It's a great question. Every day looks a little bit different. But I come in obviously with my tennis challenges and my tennis questions that I pose to them, hey, I feel this encounter, or I feel this happening during matches. Could there be some brain-based solution that we can implement, or can we find where, let's say, my movement patterns break down and just build better habits from there? It's like an inverted question of, hey, this is the result. Can we find the origin of that in my neurological system and then build that backup in a better way? It's rule-breaking the neurological system.
David Gardner: It is very rule-breaking, and I know it's been very successful for you. Could you give an example in the past of a previous misgiving or question you had about why you're thinking a certain way, and how that changed, and how it then changed your encore behavior?
Sam Verbek: I think that's something that I also referenced in our podcast this year, is the sense of belonging where you are. One of the very cool aspects that they do here in Georgia is something called neuroemotional training. We actually went through my nervous system and the way it responded to certain statements and the energy that that brought. It turned out that in this example, I told myself I am comfortable belonging at the top of the game. My neurological system actually was triggered by that. We went in, and we found out that something happened in my POPS years that something encapsulated that word of belonging that needed to get out there before I actually believed myself or my body believed what my mind was telling me. Hey, you actually do belong here. That's been massive in making sure that my training actually corresponds to knowing that I can be at the top of the is just so interesting.
David Gardner: I love that example, and we were talking offline before being on this podcast together, and you mentioned you have a special guest with you joining you in Georgia this particular week.
Sam Verbek: My mom is here as well. The more the merrier, that's for sure. But no, it doesn't always have to be in tennis. But if you can just work on your brain and work on making better decisions and knowing where you are in space, feeling your body better, I think you're just going to be a better human, and better humans make better athletes, but also make better decisions. I think also better investors.
David Gardner: That is just such a wonderful insight. I love that you brought her along. Of course, the work that you're doing, while it's very helpful for an elite athlete, for the rest of our lives, when we retire from whatever, we have all kinds of human interactions, hopes, dreams, et cetera. I feel as if you're just setting up not just you, but now increasingly your family for success going forward. You're also helping our listeners here at Rule Breaker Investing start to see with new eyes the possibilities for themselves and their families. Sam, thank you for being an out-front leader in so many ways. I think we've covered the first question. How are things going? But do you want to share anything else about that before I ask you the second question?
Sam Verbek: It's funny that you asked that because right now, we're in December. There's a competition running, and I got nominated, thankfully, for Athlete of the Year in Amsterdam. Which is, I think, the third time that a tennis player was nominated, but I could be the first tennis player ever to win it. It's just, I guess, a reminder or a testament to the season that we've had. But if fools want to help another fool. Then they can hop over to my LinkedIn or my Instagram and follow that link to submit their vote for me as Athlete of the Year. That would be very helpful.
David Gardner: Wonderful. I will say, I have already done that, and I highly encourage all Motley Fool members and all Rule Breaker Investing listeners to log in. You can google. You'll find Sam and his LinkedIn. Vote for Sam as the Amsterdam Athlete of the Year. Now, it's some stiff competition, Sam. You're not the only one on that list, but you do have my vote, and I know you'll have that of some others who are thinking about you this December. Well, speaking of thinking, let's close, Sam, with my question for you. You've done this once before when you won your first bestie three years ago. I need to go see what you said at the time, but here it is once again. I remember. Excellent. Saper Beek, what is a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction you have for the year 2026?
Sam Verbek: Well, my wish is, and this goes back to our conversation that we had in your wonderful introduction, where you said, Luck favors the prepared. I realized that the last 18 months, I've had some incredible luck and that my preparation has met that luck. My wish is for all the full listeners that I listen to right now. To get lucky in 2026 and to use that luck to propel their careers or their relationships and hopefully their portfolios to new heights, because it's happened to me, and it's a wonderful feeling. Just like me, I didn't know when it was going to happen and what that inflexion point was going to be or where it was going to take me. But I really wish that all capital FOLs have a lucky moment next year and can use it for.
David Gardner: Thank you, Sam Verbek. It reminds me of one of my favorite lines, and you really again embody this, the harder I work, the luckier I get. Sam, thank you again for that story you told that reminded us how close sometimes failure and greatness can sit. Sometimes, separated by a frantic drive and a change of clothes, a story that I really loved. I'm grateful, Sam, for your openness and perspective. I wish you a year full of clean winners on and off the court, and Sam VerbikGod luck.
Sam Verbek: Thank you very much, David. Poll on.
David Gardner: Alright, Bestie number eight. The day was July 2, 2025. Of course, the week of Independence here in the United States. It was our episode What You've done to Create Financial Freedom Volume Three. This Bestie episode put the spotlight exactly where it belongs on you. It is now an annual tradition. Rule Breaker Investing steps back from my frameworks and forecasts and lets our community show in real, practical ways what financial freedom actually looks like in motion. Have you done? I ask each year, dear listeners. What have you done to create more financial freedom for yourself and or for others in the year that has been? Well, in that episode, we heard from fellow fools who negotiated raises instead of job hopping. Who built emergency funds before buying stocks, who paid down high-interest debt card by card, and finally took control of their own retirement accounts. We heard from parents opening IRAs for their kids and matching their contributions from investors, simplifying hundreds of positions into portfolios that finally fit their lives, and from fools using their own progress to help others, encouraging a parent to retire, say, or a co worker to seek advice, a friend to take a first step. These weren't grand gestures.
They were small, intentional actions taken steadily by our listeners, by this community that will compound. I think what made this episode special, beyond being replete with inspirational real-life story examples from you, is how clearly it connects with the Motley Fool's purpose to make the world smarter, happier, and richer and also with the on-the-ground work of our full community foundation and this broader Motley Fool community. No financial freedom is not a finish line, and I don't ever mean to present it that way because it's really more of a practice, learning, sharing, helping, and then pulling others along as you go. For celebrating real progress, real people, and the idea that financial freedom for one is best when it becomes financial freedom for many, what you've done to create financial freedom, Volume Three, earns a bestie. Keep those stories pouring in and keep that progress going forward in 2026. No, we've made it to number nine. If you're sitting there wondering, wait, what about the Market Cap Game Show? Especially the March Market Cap Mads World Championships featuring Andy Cross and Emily Flippen. I mean, you're sitting there thinking, Wouldn't that be a bestie? Well, if that's you, wondering that, you're right.
The day was March 19, and Andy and Emily threw down great performances, showing off our Market Cap Game Show at its best. This episode brought together two of our sharpest minds of the Motley Fool, put real stakes on the line, and turned what most investors overlook. Market capitalization into an hour of learning, laughter, and well, suspense, although it was admittedly over for the last 10 minutes. But what made this championship special was not their final score. Emily six, Andy four. But how much investing wisdom emerged in the process, from Emily's fearless tight ranges to group conversations that range from Peloton's rise and fall to Kinder Morgan's stubborn underperformance. This episode reminded us why market cap matters more than share price and why great investors can be right about the world sometimes, but still sometimes wrong about a stock. There was humor throughout Andy rocking his pie socks. There was a jab at how exercise equipment sometimes ends up as expensive coat racks. We alluded briefly to Emily's year-long plus journey to positively reinforce her cat actually using its litter box, and Emily pulling back out and reusing her famous phrase uttered on the TV show Survivor Risk It for the Biscuit. Most of all, this episode felt like a celebration of Rule Breaker investing and our community, you, our listeners. Because you're not just listening. You're playing along with us, scoring at home, maybe arguing with your car radio, maybe even outscoring my finalists, but wait, no way. For making Market Caps memorable, competitive, and genuinely fun, and for delivering a world championship worthy of the name, the 2025 March Market Cap Maddis World Championship earns a bestie. Emily Flippin Andy Cross, congratulations and welcome back.
Emily Flippen: Hey, it's great to be here.
David Gardner: It's great to be back with the champion. Six to four. It wasn't really even that close, Andy. I don't think.
Emily Flippen: Yes, it was. My memory is so bad. I had to go back and recheck, but it was six to three going into the final question.
David Gardner: But I will also say, Emily presented for Viking Therapeutics, which is a pretty small biotech, I think. I'm not keeping up that well, but an incredibly tight range, 3-3.43 billion. Andy, you agreed, and it was 3.40 billion. You got a point, Andy. Anyway, you both are very good at the game, and I wanted to start by asking you each for maybe a tip for all the rest of us because I have two of the very best players in Market Cap Game Show history right here, right now. Let me turn first to Emily. Emily, what is a tip that our players can benefit from the next time they play?
Emily Flippen: I'm actually stealing this tip from another analyst here at the Fool, Jim Eller. When I was going through the interview process to come on as an analyst, one of the, I guess you could call it, exam questions, interview questions, really, that Jim would ask is to give a 90% confidence interval for a bunch of crazy things that you would never know. Ten questions. Like, what is the gestation period of an African elephant? then you have to give an interval, a 90% confidence interval. His point is to show that you can be overconfident with your guesses, but I love taking a 90% confidence interval to the market caps. If I'm given a market cap or given a company that I'm not familiar with, I try to think to myself, What is my 90% confidence interval for this market cap? Then I take the halfway point.
David Gardner: That is really cool. I think we can all use that outside of the market cap game show in life. It is a good life lesson. Thank you, Emily. Andy, how about a tip from you?
Andy Cross: I'm not 90% confident in anything, let alone, gosh, maybe go down to 20%. I think that's a great guidance, Emily, just as David was saying in life, too. David, I try to make it relative. I try to understand, have a pretty good sense across most industries, one or two market caps that I know pretty well. Based on the way that you're talking and the company, then I know the industry and the market, so I can say, Okay, well, Salesforce is a 200-plus billion dollar CAP company. How do I think this company compares against Salesforce? it gives me some guess if I don't know the company, some range. Even if I do know the company, some better understanding if I make it relative to one key leader in the industry.
David Gardner: That is another great tip. Having an exemplar, an industry leader, something that gives you a little bit of a measuring stick that everything else can be compared against that and Emily's 90% confidence interval. I'm learning a lot just about how to go through life. Let me turn, speaking of life, and ask you my question, of course, for the best ease. I'll turn back to you first, Andy. Any Krauss, what is a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction you have for the year 2026?
Andy Cross: Well, I tell you it's just quickly a prediction. I think Exxon is going to make a little bit of a resurgence in 2026. It's actually down for the year. It's down like 15%, AXON, Axon Enterprises, and it's kind of struggled with the latter part of the year. I think it has a better year. that's my prediction for those of us who are still owning and believers in Axon Enterprises.
David Gardner: Sure.
Andy Cross: David, my wish is I'm really interested in following these prediction markets. That are coming out from the likes of Poly Market and Kalashi and how it's impacting not just investing in the way that people are thinking about putting capital at risk, but sports betting, that market as well. But I know it's very popular with a lot of young consumers, and I can understand it. However, my wish is I hope we can reach some younger consumers to encourage them to don't leave out business focus, investing like we've taught at the Motley Fool for many years, because I think longer term can lead to better outcomes and better performance than a lot of prediction bets, I'll call.
David Gardner: Thank you, very well said, Andy. You gave us both a prediction. Most people don't give predictions, so thank you and a wish. I would also say an interesting thought. Something to pay attention to in 2026. Emily, how about you?
Emily Flippen: Well, let me just start off by saying a wish is really just a low-level conviction prediction. No. I think we should make Andy's wish a prediction. There's a lot that we can do here at the Fool to make that a reality. I look forward to hopefully being part of the group of people that can execute upon that wish and turn it into a higher-level prediction for 2026. But I actually have more of an interesting thought, David, not to take the easy way out, but I've been spending some more of my time this year reflecting on some of the best books that I've read throughout my life, not necessarily investing-related. There's one book that I read as a teenager that left a big impression on me. It was called Feed, written by MT Anderson. It says a lot about consumerism and attention. I feel like it's so topical for investors today because it does feel a little bit like businesses have been built around how they monetize our data, our privacy, our own attention, and engagement. I guess my interesting thought for 2026, I guess you could call it a wish, which is a very low-level prediction. Yes. I hope the companies that win here are the companies that really respect the attention of consumers, as opposed to just harvesting it or monetizing it. Because I do think having respect and a key attention to where those consumers are spending their time and their energy, and understanding your customer is such a key part of making a business successful for the long term, as opposed to the short term. I hope we see more of that next year.
David Gardner: Love that, Emily. To the respecors, the spoils. A lovely, interesting thought, borderline wish, borderline prediction. Emily and Andy, thank you for a world championship earlier this year, worthy of the name. Emily took the title, Andy took the title the year before, and you've both already qualified for our upcoming March 2026 Market Cap Madness. We've got Lauren Hurst joining as well. Next week, it's going to be Bill Barker versus Matt Argersinger for the final seat of the final four. I'm always excited to play the Market Cap Game Show, but even more so with people that I so enjoy spending time with, as I know our listeners do, and so many Motley Fool members do with both of you. Thank you both, best wishes for 2026, especially come March.
Emily Flippen: Thanks, David.
David Gardner: Thanks, David. Happy holidays, everybody. Earlier in this Besties episode, we honored Sam Horn with a well-earned bestie from Authors in August. But she wasn't the only one to emerge from that series with something special this year. The final Bestie of 2025 goes to Authors in August, Rulebreaker Investing with David Gardner and Chris Hill, which aired on August 20. For the first time in our 11 years of this weekly Rulebreaker Investing podcast, I wasn't the host. Longtime fellow fool Chris Hill stepped in. I got to take the guest chair to talk about my book, Rulebreaker Investing, which, for those keeping score at home, lives at rulebreakerinvesting.com. What followed was a conversation that felt relaxed, curious, and quietly revealing, shaped by two people who've been thinking out loud about investing together for more than three decades. There was humor, too, of course, Kombucha as a mood stabilizer, Rule Breaker magnets, sports betting called out for what it is. But always these things in service of clarity. One line in particular captured the heart of it all, and that's winners keep winning. The beauty of the stock market is you get to invest the whole race. If you're going to hand over your own podcast, it helps to give it to someone who knows the material and maybe you, too, inside and out. For turning authors in August into something a little unexpected for helping tell the story behind my book, and for closing out this year's Besties with another one full of insight and good humor. This one earns a bestie. With that, I'm delighted to welcome back the person who pulled double duty here, Besties winner and guest host Chris Hill. Chris, welcome back.
Chris Hill: Such a pleasure to be here. It's an honor to be on the Best's episode. Thank you for that. I was happy to get the invitation. You mentioned handing me the keys to the car, the Rulebreaker Investing podcast car. When I think about that, David, when I think about this episode, and this is something that I got text messages from people. I got email from people saying, You're really going to you're going to be on David's show. David's letting you host his show. After the fact, like, David let you host his show. That's really my main reflection on the episode, David, because and I may have said this. I don't recall. But for people listening, I really can't overstate what a big deal it is for the host of a show to just hand over the host chair to someone else because there were no preconditions. This was not like you hear about celebrities sometimes sitting down for an interview, saying, Okay, you can't ask me about these topics, but I'll answer these other questions. Was none of that. There was not even Hey, make sure you asked me about this part of the book. I got the book, I read it. For people who haven't listened to that episode or they want to go back and listen to it again, I would just encourage you to go into that with the knowledge that David really had no idea where I was going to take the conversation. Other than just the basics of, Hey, would you host this? I have this idea. You interview me. We worked out the time of when we were going to do it. Other than that, that was it. It showed great faith in me, so I'm honored by that. But really, it took guts, again, people who host shows don't do this thing. They just don't don't just hand over the host chair to someone else. Thank you for that.
David Gardner: Well, you're welcome, Chris. Thank you. First of all, I think there was one precondition, and it was maybe like, Could you read the book? You did. You did. It wouldn't have been the same if you hadn't read any of the book. But I even think had you not read the book, it would have been just as good a conversation because you've got to know me and this kind of material really well over the years. Speaking of calling out podcasts, your wonderful podcast Money Unplugged with Chris Hill, I had the privilege of being on that podcast this year, as well, and I got so many nice comments about my Tom and your podcast, Chris, because I think in part, you take a new angle that many people in the money world don't take. I found myself talking about the early days of my life and how that made me think about investing. You just asked one question after another on your own podcast of me that we couldn't have done on this podcast because every podcast is its own thing, but Money Unplugged, I'm consistently hearing from people, you're just having new conversations that they hadn't heard before from your various guests. I want to thank you for that invitation, Chris, and also just for how much fun it was to be together on Authors in August for the first time together this year, and maybe we'll get to do it again some, Chris. Let me ask you the question I've been asking everyone else on our award show. Chris Hill, what is a wish? An interesting thought or a prediction you have for the year 2026?
Chris Hill: Well, from being on Mony Unplug, one of the questions I ask, my guess is, What is something about money that you wish you knew earlier in life? I had a guest this fall, guy by the name of Paul Ollinger, who made his career working at companies like Yahoo and Facebook and made a bunch of money and then decided he wanted to pursue his real dream of becoming a stand-up comedian. He's doing that now. But when I asked Paul that question, he gave an answer that really stuck with me, and he said, I wish I knew that comparison never stops. He talked about every one of us on some level, we are comparing ourselves to our neighbors, to our friends, in all ways. I guess my wish for 2026 for everyone listening is to recognize that comparison never stops for any of us as investors, as human beings. Just recognize that. Then figure out your own personal way of dealing with it. It's going to happen. What is your plan for dealing with the fact that, yeah, sometimes you look at your neighbor's new car or new house, or how are you going to deal with comparison? It's going to happen. My wish is that everyone figures out their own way of dealing with it in a mentally healthy way.
David Gardner: You're reminding me of Jack Bogle's wonderful book, Enough, where he tells the story of Kurt Vongut and Joseph Heller, the author of Catch 22. You already know the punch line, but I'll just throw it out there once again. They were together at a party. I think it was a birthday party on an island owned by a hedge fund manager. these two famous writers, Vonagut always a little bit of a cynic, turns to Heller and says, Joe, do you realize that our host tonight, the birthday Boy, made more money yesterday than you have in your entire career with all of your royalty on Catch 22, and Heller memorably turned back to Vonagut and said, and I know you know this. I'm going to let you give the punch line here, Chris. He said, Yes, but I have something our host will never have.
Chris Hill: Enough.
David Gardner: Enough. It is worth thinking about here during this holiday of plenty here at the end of another great year, another up year for the market. Chris, a lot of people thought the market would go down in 2025. Well, it didn't. It went up sometimes against our own expectations, talk about comparing things one year to the next. But it is worth remembering that I think the happiest people are probably the Joseph Hellers in this world, who can say, You know what? I have enough, and that is enough. Thank you for proving that my podcast survives just fine without me hosting it. I'm grateful for your insight, your steadiness, of course, your humor, and the way you always make conversations better. Chris, Happy New Year, and fool on.
Chris Hill: Happy New Year.
David Gardner: Well, in addition to thanking again all my friends, my talented world class guests this week, I also want to thank another bestie for me, and that would be my new producer for 2025 Bart Shannon Bart, it has been a delight working with you to make this podcast happen and special thanks to you this week because there is a lot that goes into producing our besties. Bart and I want to thank you, most of all, our dear listeners. Much gratitude. I had such fun this year. I learned a lot. We hope you did, too. At its heart, that's probably what the besties are about: timely and timeless learning and fun. Thank you for suffering this fool gladly. Fool on.
