We're talking market caps, guessing the market value of companies we love, companies our spouses hate, and companies we have never even heard of.
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This video was recorded on March 22, 2023.
David Gardner: The price per share of a stock tells you almost nothing. It's the price to buy one share of that stock. But how many shares does the company have outstanding? In math, we multiply two multiplicands together, but the price per share, that's only one multiplicand. If you don't know the other one, you can't do any meaningful math or figure out much of the world around you. Fools with a capital F know that you need to know the shares outstanding, and then multiply that by the price per share.
Now you know the actual full value of the company, its full price tag, its market capitalization, market cap. Well, to teach this lesson inexorably and unforgettably, we invented a game. That's what I do. The date was August 9th, 2017, the Market Cap Game Show was born, and we've been playing every quarter since. You're playing too. I designed it that way so you can play along against my talented guest stars, against your spouse or partner, and against your kids. Can you outscore my talented professional contestants? Well, it's that time of the quarter, again, ten new stocks, three guest stars, Andy Cross, Jim Mueller, and you. Only on this week's Rule Breaker Investing.
Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing, a delight to have you with us. The purpose of this podcast is aligned directly with the purpose of our company, The Motley Fool, that's to make the world smarter, happier, and richer. I try to do that every week on this podcast, and I feel like quite succeed this week in every quarter. The penultimate Wednesday of every quarter is dedicated to the Market Cap Game Show. Now I know a lot of longtime listeners are already rubbing their hands together knowing where we're headed, getting ready to play along with this. But many new listeners may not know exactly what we're doing here. If I were just to give you the 60 seconds skinny, you should know that we're about to play a game.
The game is all about estimating the values of companies, companies that are in many cases well-known, or maybe a stock that you haven't heard of. But to know as I led off at the top, the Market Cap, really the market's price tag on that company. Walmart is full of things on its shelves and they all have price tags. But ironically, perhaps many investors don't know the real price tags of the stocks that are available on the shelves of the stock market. They're just looking at the price per share, and they think, oh, let's go for a penny-stock because that one, it wouldn't take much to go from 37 cents to 74 cents, it would double. I should buy penny-stocks, not really realizing that it's not just a penny-stock but a penny prospect in many cases, a penny market cap. Companies have no real influence that sometimes get hyped on the internet, or as meme stocks and don't have much value.
Well, we're all about the real weight, the real value of public companies. We have fun four times a year, this being one of them with talented guest star analysts. A quiz show around the market caps of some of our favorite stocks. As long time listeners again will know you are playing along with us too. This game is designed so that for each of the ten stocks, you as a player can listen to my talented professional analysts, guest star and say, do I agree with that person's estimate of the market cap, or do I disagree? You can score yourself zero to ten based on the number of right answers you get in the Market Cap Game Show. Yes, Andy Cross is here with me today, and yes, Jim Mueller is here with me today. But we're really all here for you to educate, to amuse and enrich. I would say especially gentlemen this week to educate, to make our listeners smarter. Andy Cross, who are you at the Motley Fool?
Andy Cross: David, I'm Andy Cross. I've been at The Motley Fool since 1996 with you and Tim and many other Fools, it's been a real pleasure to help make the world smarter, happier, and richer. I'm an advisor here and the Chief Investment Officer of working with so many talented investors like my competitor on only today's game show because usually we're quite good friends.
David Gardner: Jim Mueller, a delight to have your debut on the Market Cap Game Show. You haven't been here 27 years like Andy, but you've been here for?
Jim Mueller: Seventeen.
David Gardner: That counts. Jim Mueller, who are you and what do you do at the Motley Fool?
Jim Mueller: I'm Jim Mueller, I'm a former scientist, and I bring my scientific research background of data to my work. But now I'm an analyst, and I'm the advisor for future of entertainment, energy insider, which is partly oil but mostly renewable stuff, and then options as well.
David Gardner: Future of entertainment, by the way, distinct from energy insider. I heard it almost like, wow, a lot going on in one service, but now these are different thing.
Jim Mueller: Now, we're doing Cancan dances on the oil rigs.
David Gardner: That's actually a party I would want to be part of it. I just heard that data part, and now I'm already scared to go.
David Gardner: Well, I think that Jim was rattling is say were a little bit with the comment about being a scientist and data-driven person. We'll see how that plays out in this episode of the Market Cap Game Show. Well Gentlemen start your engines, your cerebral engines. Let's get started. All right. Stock Number 1, turning to Andy Cross. Andy, when did the phrase cloud computing first come to your awareness? Do you remember? It probably wasn't like when JFK was shot, which by the way, preceded our lives, but everybody had that moment where they knew where they were. I'm not saying cloud computing is quite at that level, but for a lot of investors, and for our society, cloud computing has become quite important. Do you remember?
Andy Cross: Well, I think there's two companies that best associated with cloud computing. I think Salesforce, and Amazon through Amazon Web Service. I will say with Salesforce, I didn't pick up on it as early as I should have. I'll say it was much more around AWS, David, and for me I'll say probably in the last five years.
David Gardner: Last five-years. The company we're about to talk about is a longer standing pick. Really Tim Beyers here at The Motley Fool on my Rule Breakers team, I can first remember Tim saying somewhere around 2008/9, "the cloud, it's coming." I didn't know quite what he was talking about at the time, but he recommended Salesforce in Motley Fool Rule Breakers. It's been an outstanding long-term holding. All of us are coming online at different points. But even for some of us who might be hearing the phrase cloud computing for the first time today, and many listeners, in this podcast, that would not be true because it's certainly been a thing for us for a while. I still think might be on the early end of the curve of awareness and adoption.
In a lot of ways, of course, tech circles have been all about cloud computing for years now, but much of the rest of just popular culture. While they're using cloud computing, they wouldn't necessarily articulate it that way. This company is just one of the players in the ecosystem. It is not Salesforce, but it is another fine rule breaker pick. Andy, let's talk briefly about Palo Alto Networks, ticker symbol, PANW. Now, like all of the ten stocks were playing today, neither Andy nor Jim has any sense of which company I'm about to ask, and they're giving their best shot at the market cap. It'll be fun to see where you are on this one. I'm not sure I do that well with this one, Andy, but that's why I love being the host and the MC. Because I can look smart as Alex Trebek, and others have looked over the years. Largely just because I already know the answer, and I'm quizzing you.
I'm also speaking to our players at home right now as I say that. We're all doing our best out there, Palo Alto Networks, I'll mention, has just been an outstanding stock. Ten years ago it was at 20, today it's at about 190. We're talking about nearly a ten bagger over the last ten years. But volatile like many other stocks, especially in cloud computing and technology, it got crushed in 2021, but in 2023, maybe this is helping you a little bit. It's up from 130-190, just this year. It's up almost 50 percent in less than a quarter. A volatile, bigger cap company, but enough for me, Andy, let me turn to you. Andy Cross, what is your range that you will give for the market cap of Palo Alto Networks, ticker symbol PANW. Again, new players, Andy is going to give a range. Then Jim and all of us at home are simply going to agree with Andy's range, or disagree thinking it's outside Andy's range. That's the way this game is played. Andy what's your range for Palo Alto Networks?
Andy Cross: David, I will say 45 billion to 60 billion as my range of the market cap for Palo.
David Gardner: All right. $45 billion to $60 billion. Jim before you say you agree or disagree, do you follow cloud computing? Is that part of that Cancan dance on the oil rig?
Jim Mueller: First time I heard cloud computing I thought the Cirrus, Nimbus or whatever.
David Gardner: Yes. Those kinds of clouds.
Jim Mueller: Then I liked Western Digital, the maker of the hard drives. Because the cloud runs on hard drives.
David Gardner: Jim, Andy stated 45 billion to 60 billion. Do you want to say you agree or you disagree?
Jim Mueller: I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Well, that's unfortunate. Jim because Andy had a pretty good call. Listeners at home, if you agreed with Andy, you said inside the range, give yourself a plus one. The market cap of Palo Alto Networks, as we speak, is 57.52 billion. We always take it out to that second decimal. Near the top end of Andy's range, but within the range. Jim, were you thinking bigger or smaller?
Jim Mueller: I was thinking smaller.
David Gardner: You're thinking smaller. Good. Well, and that's, I think part of the value of this game. You might not want to have it on your watchlist, Jim, if you're thinking it was smaller than this and it's already at this inflated market cap, of course, for a lot of us, we build our watchlist from an episode like this, especially for the ones where it's a lot smaller than you thought, because when it's actually a lot smaller than you thought, maybe it has a lot more room to grow in your mind. That's something to consider any way for now. Andy, one, Jim zero. I will turn to Jim with Stock Number 2. Let me start before we get there, Jim, could you describe the travel quest that you are on vis-a-vis baseball parks. I've talked about this a little bit before on this podcast, different points, but could you just elaborate what you're doing with some of your travel.
Jim Mueller: In my previous job, I traveled around the country fairly extensively and on free evenings. If there was a baseball game in town and go to the ballpark and visit the national league ballpark. There are 30 teams and I have 25 of them I've been to over the years. I have a baseball from each one. I have a baseball from the Tokyo giants when we went to Japan.
David Gardner: That's wonderful. Jim, are you a lifelong baseball fan?
Jim Mueller: I've loved with the game of baseball for so long. I think many of the rule changes, especially the pitching clock, I think that's going to make it a lot more exciting to watch this here.
David Gardner: It's going to be really interesting. Have you watched any spring training? I have not. You have? Great. Good for you. Well, I'm glad to know you're excited about it. I do love baseball as well. I haven't been to nearly as many ballparks as you have.
Jim Mueller: I have no idea what company you're thinking of.
David Gardner: Well, you shouldn't quite yet, it's a little bit of a misdirect, but I did want to talk briefly about traveling in your approach to traveling. I'm just curious, Jim, these days with this job that you've been at for 17 years or so, we don't ask you to travel as much, but when you do travel to a city where you're realizing I've never been to that ballpark. Typically, where would you be staying when you're visiting that city?
Jim Mueller: In a hotel.
David Gardner: Not at an Airbnb.
Jim Mueller: Not at an Airbnb.
David Gardner: Which is Stock Number 2, ticker symbol ABNB, Airbnb. I have to admit I myself have not yet ever stayed at an Airbnb by my own choice. I've been with others who booked it. We've had some good experiences. I think overall, the reason this company has succeeded is because it is a model that works. There's some controversy around it does disrupt traditional hospitality industry. It might even be illegal in some countries like Uber sometimes is. I'm not quite sure. I don't keep up that well, Jim. Have you ever used Airbnb?
Jim Mueller: No, and we never will because my wife dislikes the company with a very strong passion.
David Gardner: I'm so glad I randomly pick this for the all universe because thereby hangs a tail. If you're comfortable or she would be comfortable, can you explain why?
Jim Mueller: She was born and raised in Hawaii. Hawaii's economy is tourism based and Airbnb, as far as I know, does not pay the taxes to the state that and the cities that the hotels are required to pay. They don't have the owners, the host, or not there on the property. The guests can get rowdy at times and disturb the neighborhoods where they're staying.
David Gardner: I'm talking, I think it's your wife primarily who's the Airbnb hater but Jim, are you a hater?
Jim Mueller: I'm not going against my wife.
Andy Cross: A smart man.
David Gardner: I am happy wife, happy life has often been said, Jim, I am delighted, therefore that I get to ask you, Jim Mueller, what is the market cap range of Airbnb ticker symbol ABNB?
Jim Mueller: I'm going to say 80-100 billion.
David Gardner: Eighty billion to 100 billion, listeners at home calculating their minds, is it inside that range or outside that range? Some might think its low, some might think its high. But what matters right now, Andy, as I turn to you, is, do you agree with Jim or do you disagree with Jim's range of 80-100 billion?
Andy Cross: Jim, you rarely messed me up but that one too, because I think you are very close. I think you might be a little bit too low. I'm going to say I disagree with you, Jim, on that one.
David Gardner: Andy was wrong. But he was right. Andy, you were right to disagree with Jim. You get a plus one, but you were wrong in that he actually went above its actual market cap. Airbnb, very close though, 75.91 billion. Jim, I you were close.
Jim Mueller: I thought 75-100 or 200 I decided on a narrow one.
David Gardner: The round number approach can help or hurt. It could have helped in that case, had you lowered it ever so slightly. Andy, admittedly, you put it out there and I'm glad you did that. You thought he was low with this cap, but yet it was below where he had it. Have you used Airbnb?
Andy Cross: Yes. We have used Airbnb. I've looked at the company and followed it a little bit, and that's a great thing about this game, David, is because stocks especially now they're more volatile. Then moving on in the last time I may have looked at it, maybe it was up at that level and I'm anchoring to that. That's why I love playing this, even though it is a very tricky game at times. This Airbnb example was a perfect one. I'm sorry, Jim, I was right and I was wrong.
Jim Mueller: I'm just happy that I was close because I missed Netflix around here. I don't even know the market cap.
David Gardner: Well, in that way you're kind of every banned in some ways, Jim, because I think most of us don't walk through the world day-to-day and say, hey, that's the market cap of that, of Starbucks or hey I see your Reebok sneaker. What's the market cap of Reebok honey? I do think it's a little odd to create a game show around this. Yet I think it's so important and what clearly the world needs more of an Andy Cross Europe to nothing here after two stocks, Jim was so close both times that it hurts me to thank Jim shut out at this point. Jim, have you been to ball games or the other team went up to nothing and have you seen comebacks before?
Jim Mueller: Not that this is going to happen to me.
Andy Cross: A lot of luck on my side right now. That can turn.
David Gardner: Airbnb. I forgot these, guys, came public right at the end of 2020, first week or so trading right around 135 or so today, 123. About flat from its IPO, I'd forgotten late 2020, I thought Airbnb had been public longer.
Andy Cross: It's pretty incredible because Brian Chesky and his co-founder is founded the company Airbnb because air mattresses that they've stayed at when they hosted people in their San Francisco flat. But I think David it, got caught up in so much of the COVID challenges to the IPO market that they had to push off the IPO until later 2020, because 2020 was a very challenging year where he laid off a significant amount of their staff.
David Gardner: Well, what a time we've all been through Airbnb reached as high as $220 a share. Many of these stocks peaked right around March of 2021. That was its high so it's about cut in half from that point here a couple of years later. Maybe positioned, poised to rise from here. I'm generally unlike Jim and his wife, the haters. I like it, but I have to admit, I haven't really been a customer of it much. I guess I'm just neutral, but I know one thing that was then, this is now, let's push these two stocks aside.
All that matters, guidance is the next eight. Let's go to Stock Number 3. Turning back to you, Andy, you and I were in college somewhere late '80s, early 90, right around there, we're about the same age. What's a technology or two, if you like, that, you would have had a hard time convincing the young Andy Cross back in college? What's the technology or two that exist today that you might even have a hard time explaining to young Andy Cross because of the way technology or the world has unfolded, anything come to mind?
Andy Cross: This is a very ironic one, David, because like many people, I rely on text messages. Text messaging every day. I don't know how many text messages I communicate with my family, wife, year-ends, colleagues.
David Gardner: A lot of us can relate.
Andy Cross: I think it's so much unrelated. Back in college at the University of Michigan, we had something, I believe they called it Fingers. It was a very early text message slash email system back in the early '90s. It wasn't email if I'm pretty sure it was called Fingers and essentially was text messages over computers. I was in a computer science class or a math class and people were text message sending messages through Fingers. I was like, "This is crazy, why don't you just lean over and talk to somebody?" Then email came about, why do I need this? I could just call you on the phone, why is that? I am not an early adopter, David, I think you you tend to be more early adopter. I am not an early adopter technology. I was a slow adopter at text messaging. If I had to convince myself that text messaging is going to be my primary form of communication, I think I would have a hard time doing that.
David Gardner: The younger AC would just be no way. The answer was way.
Andy Cross: That's right.
David Gardner: That's a good example. Jim, before I turn back to Andy with our stock, does that scare up anything for you? A conversation with your younger self trying to convince that person that this actually happened.
Jim Mueller: I think the mobile phone and how it's turned into a computer more powerful than the first several generations.
David Gardner: Yeah, then the Cray Supercomputer of the early '80s.
Jim Mueller: It can be reached whenever and wherever you want on the planet, which can be a good thing or a bad thing.
David Gardner: It was Skype. This is more like six or seven years ago. I probably would do FaceTime now or maybe even Zoom depending. But as I Skype'd my family from a plane to say good night five or six years ago, just thinking, I would have had a hard time explaining to my younger self that this was possible without being the cranky old guy that maybe we all are. We used to pay a dollar a minute for long distance calls to our parents, usually a collect call in my case. But just think about how we took something that was so humans so important and we turned it from expensive to free. Just think about all the good and in some cases the bad that has come from that. That's just one example from one area of technology.
While I'm glad we're having this conversation, because any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I see my friend Jim Mueller, who probably has read more Arthur C Clarke than I have. Recognizing that line, it's always been a phrase that I've loved. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic because trying to talk to our younger selves a generation ago about what's happened is something that will never technically happened because so far anyway, we haven't invented time travel, but yet it's still such an eye-opener, especially as investors ourselves thinking about, what will be the things today that we could or should be investing in that 25 years from now and even older version of ourselves would just find amazing? If possible, let's get our dollars, at least some of them there today.
That's part of what we try to do as investors, or at least as a rule-breaker, how I frame up the market. I did once dedicate one of my five-stock samplers to this phrase and this concept, it was five stocks indistinguishable from magic. I picked them on September 2nd of 2020, about three months later, Airbnb would come public. Airbnb was not one of them, but thinking about what are the companies, that what they're doing is so remarkable, it's indistinguishable from magic? One of those five companies, and I still feel this way today is ASML Holding, of course, the chip design company of very substantial and important company today that is operating at an microscopic level.
We think about the manufacturer of semiconductor chips today, so tiny we can't even see them, and yet they're in so much of the technology around, there are chips everywhere and they're smart and getting smarter, they're getting smaller and more powerful. That's been happening for a long time. For me anyway, as someone who's wondering, if I tried to explain to a Viking, yeah, Viking, not Minnesota Vikings NFL team these days, but an actual Viking, semiconductor chips, computers and how things work today, it was truly sound like I think magic to that Odin Worshiping fellow of yours. Conversations with Vikings around technology always a fun whimsical thought for me, but more importantly, let me now turn to Andy and ask you, Andy, I don't know if you spend any time looking at ASML company, I think based in the Netherlands, but this company is important what it's doing today. The real question that we have for you is, what is your range of market cap for ASML Holding ticker symbol, ASML?
Andy Cross: Let's see Jim, ASML, I will say 90 billion to 130 billion.
David Gardner: Ninety billion dollars to 130 billion dollars for yes, it's confirmed this company, the Dutch multi-national, based in Veldhoven in the Netherlands. The trivia you only get from this podcast. I heard 90 billion to 130 billion?
Andy Cross: Yes, sir.
David Gardner: Jim, and all my players at home, do you want to agree inside that range or disagree outside that range, 90-130 billion?
Jim Mueller: Is this the one that makes the machines that make the chips?
David Gardner: This is the company that specializes in the development and yes, some of the manufacturing specifically. I'm out of my league a little bit here and I realize I'm talking to somebody who is himself a scientist, but not this area. Photolithography, extreme ultraviolet lithography.
Jim Mueller: It's not what I think it is.
David Gardner: This is this is a substantial company. It's a bigger company. I'm not going to say if Andy's right or wrong, but this is no fly by-night operation. This is a profoundly important company today in the world.
Jim Mueller: I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Well, some baseball teams when they get down to nothing.
Jim Mueller: Go down three nothing?
David Gardner: Others make it two to one.
Jim Mueller: Oh, nice.
David Gardner: Jim you're right. The right move here was to disagree with Andy's range. ASML capitalized to 255.24 billion at quarter of a trillion dollars. This is by the way, the most highly valued European technology company by-market cap. This is a holding in Motley Fool Stock Advisor. I picked it a few years ago in a company. I think it's just an outstanding representative of technology indistinguishable from magic and helping power the world. I think a lot of us know that so much of the manufacturing of semiconductors is happening in Taiwan these days, but some of it is happening outside and many of these companies are designing the chips. Not necessarily always manufacturing them or manufacturing them at scale or at the cheapest prices, but ASML, an outstanding example of European entrepreneurism and scale and size. Andy, you learn some there.
Andy Cross: Even that's higher than the range at first was. I was originally between 131-160 and I lowered it and I did not know it was worth 200 billion.
Jim Mueller: With that first range, I think I still would have thought it was around 200.
Andy Cross: It is a significant. It is really the only player in doing what it does and I still underestimated the value of that. I was a little high on my other ones, my Airbnb, so maybe I little bowl myself a little bit.
David Gardner: Well, let's have some more fun here just because we love market caps on this show specialty, this episode every quarter, ASML is twice the market cap today of Intel. More than twice the size of Intel, and yet it is less than half the size of Nvidia. To have thought that 10 or 20 years ago, I think it would be astonishing for a few different reasons. Of course, all of these things are always changing. Let's see where things go from here. But to get a real sense of scale, that's part of what we do with the market cap game show just to understand relative sizing. ASML, many of us have never heard of that company before, twice the size of Intel inside and the storied Andy Grove founded companies. So worth paying attention.
Jim Mueller: Intel, a customer of ASML, they buy the machines that make the chips and Intel are spending an incredible amount of money under their new-ish CEO Pat Gelsinger, making new fabs. Then they're going to be buying a bunch of the equipment that ASML sells. One reason Intel is only half the size of market cap is because lntel whacked its dividend about a month ago.
David Gardner: Thank you. I'm sorry to hear that. I do not own Intel I'm not keeping up as much as I once did. But that's part of the fun of this game for me is to be reminded and learn things like that Jim.
Jim Mueller: It's a picking one of my services options.
David Gardner: Onto Stock Number 4, Jim you're a chemist. Is that is that fair to say. You were a chemist by trade?
Jim Mueller: By training I never was a practicing chemist.
David Gardner: By training then, not trade.
Jim Mueller: Right.
David Gardner: Based on your knowledge of chemistry, I'm springing this on you. Is Gatorade fundamentally sound and healthy as a chemical that we ingest?
Jim Mueller: There you're talking more about biology and biochemistry. But I'd be a little worried about that green glow thing.
David Gardner: It's amazing. Gatorade, which I know it has electrolytes and I know it's played up by professional athletes and has been for decades. If you're an American, you've had this pounded into your head, that Gatorade is really good and you should have it to recharge, but isn't it really just candy water mostly? Its a lot of sugar, certainly.
Jim Mueller: Lots of sugar, lots of electrolytes, which is good because you're sweating out all that stuff, but also a lot of sulfites. If you're allergic to sulfites, and you drunk down Gatorade when you are putting out a lot of liquid because your body's not working right. It can cause problems. Speaking with experience.
David Gardner: I will tell you that as somebody who's been hydrating on a regular basis for the last several months ever since I realized you can gamify or hydration, I'm a big fan of a hydrate Spark pro bottle that you guys see glowing in case you want to take a sip of it here in the studio. I know that you can even overhydrate, and that's by the way, I think it's called hyponatremia. I did that once trying to hit my goal for the day late in the day, I really tried it and it was a little bit of a headache.
Jim Mueller: Talked to Seth Jason, our colleague here, big runner, and he he thinks a lot of the ultrahydration that's being pushed today is actually dangerous because of that very thing. You can drink so much that your blood gets too dilute. So the electrolyte balances in your blood go too low rather than too high.
David Gardner: We're full of not just stock tips here at The Motley Fool, but health tips as well from chemists, not by trade, but by training. I know I realized, Jim, you were immediately disassociate yourself from any real insight. I didn't mean to spring on the people of Gatorade that what you have is not good. I've drunk a lot of Gatorade, but I just sometimes wonder how healthy really is this stuff.
Jim Mueller: All that stuff that really I think is approved by the FDA at least for human consumption. But I still don't like that orange yellow glow.
David Gardner: I think it's fair to question really literally colored things that we ingest. Wondering, would the caveman have benefited from this?
Jim Mueller: I don't drink mountain dew either.
Andy Cross: There you go.
David Gardner: Well speaking of which I'm not about to ask you about any of the companies we've discussed thus far. But I am asking you about Jim, Celsius Holdings ticker symbol CELH, because this company is in that market making beverages that it sells through grocery and drug and convenience stores. Thermogenic calorie burning beverages, and a few of my friends who are in better shape than I am swear by this stuff. They love to ingest. I've had it too, it's pretty tasty. The orange flavor, in my case, I like the orange Celsius. Apparently, if you have this kind of energy drink just before you work out, your workout will burn more calories than it would have otherwise. It tastes good to like Gatorade except with carbonation. Anyway, Jim, without asking you to weigh in anymore on the merits of drinks that you and I don't necessarily know that well, I will ask you to weigh in on the market cap for Celsius Holdings ticker symbol CELH.
Jim Mueller: I just want to add, I'm sorry, I'm going to weigh in a little bit anyway. There are substances that you can ingest that will increase your metabolism.
David Gardner: Yeah, like coffee?
Jim Mueller: Yeah. I would urge people to be careful about that because not all the side effects are known. Different people probably have different responses too.
David Gardner: If we're going to give health tips, we're also going to give health disclaimers here on the Rule Breaker Investing podcast which I think is entirely appropriate.
Jim Mueller: As far as the company's market cap, I've never even heard of the company.
David Gardner: That's part of what makes this game fun. This is a company that certainly has some interest among the Motley Fool community.
Jim Mueller: I am going to say 10-20 billion.
David Gardner: 10 billion to 20 billion for a company that Jim has already admitted he doesn't really even know. It went public. It's on the Nasdaq. It's probably not a penny stock.
Jim Mueller: It's not like 200 million.
David Gardner: Yeah. I have it on the game. I'm probably not going to throw out some micro-cap here. Ten billion to 20 billion. Andy, turning to you now, would you like to agree with Jim's range or disagree with Jim's range?
Andy Cross: This is why this game is so much fun because I'm not saying Jim is lying by any means, I do know Jim is a big gamer though. There's a little gamification here with the way that he answers the question. But I'm going to disagree with Jim on the $10-20 billion range.
David Gardner: If with Andy, you disagree, give yourself a plus one because the market cap for Celsius Holdings is 6.53 billion, six and a half billion dollars. Not that far outside the range of 10-20 and yet outside the range of 10-20.
Jim Mueller: You thought it was bigger.
Andy Cross: No, I was thinking it was more like the 3-4 billion. It's even larger than I thought. I did not know Celsius would be that six billion. That's a good size company.
Jim Mueller: Yeah.
David Gardner: Yeah. Well, it is. At 6.5 billion, it's a lot bigger than it was just three years ago. In fact, the stock three years ago guys, around five dollars a share, today it's 89.
Andy Cross: Wow.
David Gardner: We're talking about a stock that's basically a 16 bagger over the last three years, a pretty volatile three years, and obviously COVID mixed in there and a stock that by the way, rocketed up over 100 in 2021 and then got more than cut in half down to 40 in 2022, about a year ago, it's back up to 89 or 90. Well, ours is not to forecast where Celsius is headed next, especially if we don't even know the company although there are certainly some Motley Fool analysts just not these ones who specialize more in that. But it is a company like Gatorade that pops into popular culture and you see it and some people swear by this stuff. I would say for them, you should have a company like this on your watchlist. It's been a monster performer. It's interesting to see it at $6.5 billion. Well, let's keep moving on here. I see it as Andy three, Jim one. Andy, let me turn back to you. Stock Number 5.
Let me try out a possible corporate purpose statement on you Andy and I'm going to ask you here just to rate it. Does it impress you? Can you sign up for this? Is it plausible? I think a lot of us, whatever organization we may work for a for-profit or not-for-profit, especially if you're a Fool, capital F, we've always said, purpose matters. What we sign up for in life as adults is in so many ways going to play out to our benefit or not so much based on the choices that we make, the things that we choose to serve. Certainly, a lot of us working 9:00-5:00, whether it's remotely or in offices, these days and people are all over the place on that. We're still signed up for something and presumably something that matters. Andy, are you ready for a corporate purpose statement that you are going to evaluate in front of a worldwide listenership?
Andy Cross: Ready or not, David, I'm sitting here, so give it to me.
David Gardner: I will. I'll tell you ahead of time, this is Stock Number 5's purpose statement. You might know this company. I don't really, but here it is. Andy, 0-10 where zero is not at all, how well can you show up for, "Make it easier to manage construction."
Andy Cross: I'm a fairly simple Fool, David, I think.
David Gardner: So am I.
Andy Cross: I'm looking for a little more inspiration than that. As someone who over the years has been involved obviously, David as you were and Jim probably, you and Rick, our Fool behind the glass, I think in our mission statements and our purpose here at The Motley Fool, that rings like a three-ish, 3-4 to me.
David Gardner: A 3-4, Jim, this is not the game we're playing, but Jim, higher or lower than Andy's three or four, "Make it easier to manage construction."
Jim Mueller: I know. I think so, 3-4.
David Gardner: You're right on 3-4 as well. I think what we're saying guys is that we get the easier. If there's a strong word in that purpose statement, it's easier and I think easier works in business for the most part. Entities, people, mission, services that make my life easier often I find myself cottoning to in this increasingly complex world where we're all time-starved, doesn't easy sound good. That was easy. Hit a button. Staples. Andy, Staples. Yeah. Things that make things easier or good, construction, a very important industry. I think what we're wanting is a little bit more pizass a little bit more oomph from that statement. Is that what I'm hearing from you guys?
Andy Cross: Yeah. Pizass maybe not. In my construction firms I'm looking for pizass, but I just need a little bit more. I do appreciate the convenience factor, David, I can get behind that.
David Gardner: Well, I don't know if the marketing and branding team at Procore Technologies is listening right now. But ticker symbol PCOR, that is indeed what they're purposing at Procore technologies. Carpinteria, California-based Procore Technologies, is this one of those you know how some companies invent the street that they're based on? It'll be like one Apple way. Carpinteria is actually spelled with an I carp-in-terry. They're not making the Carpinteria joke, but it's there. Carpinteria, California-based Procore Technologies, and American Construction Management Software as a service company that was, by the way, founded, maybe this helps your guess, in 2002. This is a public company. We'll talk about the stock in a sec, but let's cut to the chase. We've talked enough about making easier to manage construction. Andy, we have your thoughts on that, but we want your thoughts on the market cap for ticker symbol PCOR, Procore Technologies.
Andy Cross: Now, I'm not trying to influence Jim on this.
David Gardner: No, not at all.
Andy Cross: Not at all. That's not my game.
David Gardner: No games here.
Jim Mueller: Says the man who almost accused me of lying.
Andy Cross: No, I'm not accusing. I know how much you love games. This is one of those companies that comes through the pitch process at the Motley Fool that the investing team does a lot of times, and for me at least personally, it caught my interest, but I never spent much time on it. While it's in the zeitgeist I think of an obviously recommendation, David, as you mentioned, is not one of those ones that I follow closely.
David Gardner: Well, that makes it even more fun to play this game then.
Andy Cross: Jim, I will give a range of $5-8 billion.
David Gardner: Jim, and players at home, you said $5-8 billion for Procore Technologies. I want to stress that I have a laptop open. The guys can't see over my shoulder, but they don't have laptops open. There is no access to information technology, no opportunity for Andy or Jim to get any edge over each other. Guys, we actually ask you to unplug from your life briefly to play this game each quarter five billion to eight billion players at home. Do you want to agree or disagree with Andy's range?
Jim Mueller: Well, you and I are both thinking real small. I think it's smaller and I think I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Well, that's good because it gives us a little bit more drama as Jim catches backup. You were correct to disagree, but you were not far off being wrong or in Andy's case right, because the market cap for Procore Technologies is $8.51 billion. Andy said 5-8. So $500 million here or there, who's counting? Well, the answer is we are and the correct answer was to say outside that range. Jim, was this a fat pitch for you when this was coming in, were you sure you had this one right?
Jim Mueller: Yes.
David Gardner: Nice. Well said.
Andy Cross: I was at 6-9 was my first rate and I should have just stuck with my gut.
David Gardner: Wait, was that your first instinct and you didn't go with your first instinct?
Andy Cross: My first instinct was 6-9.
David Gardner: Andy?
Jim Mueller: My first instinct was 75-100 for that all.
David Gardner: We're learning a lot about first and second instincts this week.
Andy Cross: Exactly.
David Gardner: It's 3-2 and it's halftime of the Market Cap Game Show. If you dear listener want to just take a little time off. We're having the marching band come in. Rick, if you would please. Some of us can step away and have a quick sip of our Celsius drink as we get prepared for the second half. Onto Stock Number 6, turning now to Jim Mueller. Jim, did you ever in your time in or around labs in your scientific past, did you ever look into the dark arts of biotechnology?
Jim Mueller: Dark arts, well, we did have a dark room where we've developed film.
David Gardner: Biotechnology for many of us is opaque. We see the word or you hear about a biotech sector fund. But still I think most of us don't really know what's happening and then we tend to create fear around the things we don't understand. That's why I went with the dark arts. There probably are some dark things happening in some labs worldwide today in biotechnology, we just A, think it's probably a very small group of crazy people and B, we hope it doesn't really matter for the future, but I'm sure there's some dark arts being practiced in biotechnology, even as we speak.
Jim Mueller: We'll see.
David Gardner: Well, I don't think this is a dark art Jim, but in your past work, did you ever come across targeted protein degradation?
Jim Mueller: No. But I can guess at what it is.
David Gardner: We're not going to ask you to guess the company yet, although this is Nick quiz show, but would you like to briefly throughout what you think is, many of us are encountering that phrase of first-time and would be mystified by targeted protein degradation.
Jim Mueller: Proteins don't stick around in the cell forever and ever. They do get degraded and the amino acids reused. There are probably signals on the protein surface that can be added some way to make a protein that would not otherwise be degraded be degraded.
David Gardner: Andy, I'm glad I asked this of Jim and not of you or by the way of me. Well, let me just go on to say, I believe you, I'm an English major, but I do want to say a little bit further from this company's website. Then we're going to do the market cap. They're describing, "a transformative approach to address disease targets and pathways inaccessible with conventional therapeutics. Our Pegasus platform," this company says, "is a powerful drug discovery engine, advancing novel small molecule programs designed to harness the body's innate protein recycling machinery," Jim, which I think you spoke to a little bit there to again, in their words, "degrade disregulated disease causing proteins.'' By the way, if our podcast, has low ratings and loses listenership on a weekly basis. It's because I do stuff like this. I'm literally reading for this company, many of us are tuning out.
Jim Mueller: I think I should get a point because I nailed it.
David Gardner: We're going to give you one-tenth of one point as bonus extra credit for knowing. The last thing I'll say about Kymera Therapeutics before we go on to ask you the market cap here, Jim, is that with a focus on undrugged nodes, invalidated pathways, Kymera is advancing a pipeline of novel therapeutic candidates designed to address the most promising targets and provide patients with more effective treatments.
That's what's happening in the labs. I hope no dark arts are being practiced. Of Kymera Therapeutics, by the way, spelled K-Y-M-E-R-A, presumably somebody else got the traditional C-H-I spelling. These guys just couldn't get the name that they probably wanted for their URL. But anyway, Kymera Therapeutics today, one of those stocks that we follow, not all of us at the Motley Fool, but it's on the list. Jim, I'm turning to you now asking you for the market cap range of Kymera Therapeutics, ticker symbol KYMR.
Jim Mueller: Am I allowed to call a friend? Carl Teale, where are you?
David Gardner: We have not yet initiated that new rule for the Market Cap Game Show. You are left all by your lonesome.
Jim Mueller: Ten to 20 billion.
David Gardner: Sounds like that's the range Jim uses when he's not really sure. I heard something very similar for Celsius Holdings, this company, probably not as well known. I won't say whether it's market cap is a larger or smaller.
Jim Mueller: If it's still in development probably. Why I can't change it now, but that's not going to be a very large company.
David Gardner: Jim, I founded this game and I'm the MC and I can make whatever rule I want rule very briefly to allow you if you'd like. It almost sounded you're talking yourself out of your initial market cap range. We haven't turned to Andy. Would you like to amend before turning to Andy and our listeners at home?
Jim Mueller: No, because we've seen two examples already of where our initial ideas were accurate. I'll stick with that.
David Gardner: Excellent. Therefore, listeners at home and Andy Cross, would you like to agree or disagree with Jim's range of 10-20 billion.
Andy Cross: David, as you were explaining, Kymera Therapeutics, I just kept harking back to the beauty of Procore's mission statement of making construction simpler and easier.
David Gardner: Now you're saying it's the beauty you were giving it a 3-4 earlier.
Andy Cross: Now, I apologize to all procure Procore employees out there.
David Gardner: Especially the branding department.
Andy Cross: I pride myself on knowing at lease the names of many of our recommendations out there, if not the tickers. This one, I do not know. But I am thinking Jim is a little on the high side, I am going to disagree with Jim, $10-20 billion.
David Gardner: If you side with Andy's saying, disagree, give yourself a plus one because indeed, Jim, well overshot this development stage biotech, I can sound so knowledgeable as I say that because I knew the number all along, but the truth is, I would've been a fish out of water on this one. But as it turns out, the market cap for Kymera is just 1.7 billion. Certainly a small-cap biotech development stage company with big dreams. Jim, we now know a little bit more about their goals.
Jim Mueller: Big dreams. But it's a long, expensive, rough road ahead of them.
David Gardner: Speaking of baseball, I was thinking of Vin Scully talking about the ball falling out in the graveyard of broken dreams, the ball that didn't quite go out of the park. That's where we are right now. If you're a Jim Mueller fan, Jim, you were down four to two. You've got some work to do. That was such a lame transition on my butt, but Rick, please keep it. Well, we have four more stocks to go. Let's get at Stock Lucky Number 7.
Now I do want to mention coming up. We have what was once called the Stephens sudden death rule we'll be playing the equivalent of a slightly different format, the daily double on Jeopardy that's coming up for stocks number 8 and 9. I'll explain briefly what's happening then, but let's stick with Stock Number 7 and Andy turning to you now, how much time have you spent abroad? What have been some of the favorite places, assuming you've been outside this country that you've enjoyed outside of the US?
Andy Cross: David, after I left your uncles firm and before I came to the Motley Fool, I spent six months in Granada, Spain, which was a lot of fun, with intention to work overseas. Then I ran out of money and couldn't really travel. I had to come back.
David Gardner: Good fortune, is that when we met you at higher view?
Andy Cross: My very good fortune too and yeah, I still have not gotten back to Ireland. No place that is tight with your family as well. I'm not well-traveled, but I have spent some time in Europe, and I love that.
David Gardner: Six months is longer than I've stayed in any country outside the US that's a real tour of duty there. Andy, do you speak Spanish?
Andy Cross: I spoke it much better in college and after college and have mostly lost it. Maybe it comes back every now and then.
David Gardner: Have you visited an e-commerce platform recently that would be Spanish language base and purchase something from one of Mercado Libre's properties?
Andy Cross: I have not. But it's a business that I certainly respect. I'm not actually even been to Latin America.
David Gardner: Well, you should visit and if you do, you may well find yourself getting passed by a truck because Mercado Libre is almost not just the e-commerce platform that much of Latin America uses, but they also do a lot of the logistics around the delivery. Also the payments platform, Mercado Pago is certainly one of our best performing longest standing picks in Motley Fool Rule Breakers. Yet, even if I were asked point-blank right now, which I'm about to ask you, Andy, what the market cap is. I'm not sure I'd do great with it. It's been a volatile stock, but let me turn to you now since we're playing the Market Cap Game Show, Andy Cross, what is your stated range for the market cap of ticker symbol MELI, Mercado Libre.
Andy Cross: I also realize we've been using some whole numbers, I'm going to mix it up here. I'm going to say it's 265.8-346 billion.
David Gardner: Rocking one decimal point there, Jim, I don't know what he's doing with that, but 265.8 billion to 346. Six zillion is how I wrote it down on my Post-It Note. That was a lot to write down Andy.
Andy Cross: Yeah.
David Gardner: Jim before you answer, any quick thoughts, your chuckling.
Jim Mueller: It would be so funny if it was 256.5.
David Gardner: The way this episode's going, it could happen. I won't say though. Now let me turn to you and ask you to play the game. Jim, do you want to agree with Andy's range of 265.8 to 346 billion or disagree?
Jim Mueller: Yeah, I'll go with it. Agree.
David Gardner: Guys, I think you should both add this to your watch list if you're not already shareholders because you're persuaded that this company is about four times larger than it actually is. Mercado Libre's market cap 60.12 billion and yet we've got it in this room briefly at a quarter of a trillion dollars, which means this looks like a buy. Indeed I think Mercado Libre, most of the last decade plus, has been a pretty good buy. It is, as we talked about, a stock that has been very volatile in recent years, join the group Mercado Libre. But yes it's about a $60 billion today.
Andy Cross: Well, far smaller than I thought I own shares and like the business and studied it and talked about it on Motley Fool shows before, never really about the market cap, I guess. I must be anchoring because I know they've added to their fleet they now own, gosh, maybe a dozen planes as they shipped to different networks into nodes, into the Latin America. I obviously had that one wrong, but I thought it was much larger than 60 some billion.
Jim Mueller: At Amazon of the Latin American just pulls your mind in one direction.
Andy Cross: I think the Pago may have gotten me a little bit excited David.
David Gardner: They're the PayPal of Latin America as well. This continues to be, I think, a very compelling company I also own shares. Maybe part of it for those who can see the price per share in their head on this one and I'm always trying to disassociate from that and subvert that. But it's also true this is one that's coming that trades at $1,229 a share as we speak and sometimes when you see a big number like that starts making you think that market cap must be maybe bigger than it actually is. The stock was trading at a couple of points in 2021 at $2,000 a share.
It's about 1230 as we're speaking right now. You can see it's almost cut in half from that point. But throughout much of 2022, it was below this. It touched as low as about $600, so it's doubled from last summer. Again, looking back over these most volatile these past three years, such a volatile time, it looks crazy up and down. But if you take the long view, which is what we do at the Motley Fool and if you're with us at Rule Breakers held this stock for a long period of time. You're seeing cost bases probably closer to $50 a share than 500 or 5,000. This is a huge multibagger for us and yet guys, maybe we're just getting started at Mercado Libre because briefly in this room we had it much, much larger than it is and let's hope for shareholders that it gets there.
Jim Mueller: I just have just one question, do I get a point?
David Gardner: Unfortunately, Jim, you don't. I need to award that to Andy.
Andy Cross: Sorry, Jim.
David Gardner: Andy, five, Jim, 2.1. Jim 2.1. Okay. Let's move on to Stock Number 8. Now this is the first of two stocks here as we near the last three stocks in this show, that we are going with the daily double-ish around, which means and I see you guys getting your pens out. I'm going to ask you both to simultaneously answer your personal market cap range for these companies and then we're just going to see who's more right. If you both get it correct, whoever has the narrower range, whoever was willing to take a risk and narrow their range will win if one of you gets it right and wrong. Obviously, we'll give it to that guy who got it right. If you're both wrong, if you're ranges are both off, then we'll give whoever was closer to the point for all of our listeners at home. More importantly, you should know that the way to play this round is just agree with either Andy or Jim.
They will shortly be providing their ranges of market cap Stock Number 8. Well, Jim, you in particular are new to this game show, so you may not have realized that the iconic stock for the Market Cap Game Show since the earliest days, I'm happy to say I randomized for this episode as well. Matt Argersinger back in the day had great difficulty nailing repeatedly the market cap for Etsy, ticker symbol ETSY. Matt consistently guess low and then he would come on next time knowing that I might ask it and he forget to check and he'd be low again. Each time I was like, I think that's an incredible buy signal, Matt, because you keep thinking Etsy's larger than it is and indeed, I think history will show that it was one heck of a buy as Matt kept under calling it in the early days of the Market Cap Game Show.
Well, all the past is, but prologue here we are now, March of 2023 and gentlemen, I'm going to ask you and I already see you doing it right down your best estimate at your market cap range for Etsy, the e-commerce platform that sells stuff that nobody else has on their platform. Sometimes when you frame it up this way, Amazon sell stuff that you can buy on other platforms. What's on Etsy typically you can't buy anywhere else. It's a little bit of an Amazon proof e-commerce company that itself has been quite volatile in recent years. Well, the pens are down, so this is a simultaneous reveal. I think I'll just turn to Jim, first Jim, what is your market cap range for Etsy?
Jim Mueller: I was tempted to go with my default of 10-20. I didn't up to a little bit 20-30 billion.
David Gardner: All right, Jim, you have 20 billion-30 billion. Andy, what do you have on your post-it note that you wrote down with your flare pen.
Andy Cross: I probably have learned nothing, but I did change my answer. I wrote down smaller, 12-16 billion.
David Gardner: All right, so Andy has Etsy at 12-16 billion. Jim, you have it at 20-30 billion. Players at home, I'm about to give the correct answer, but what you need to say to yourself right now is, I agree with Andy or I agree with Jim. I will say both of you guys made some pretty good calls here. But if you said, I agree with Andy, give yourself a plus one because the market cap for Etsy is $13.39 billion.
Jim Mueller: I attempted to try.
David Gardner: Really straight within, I mean, Andy, 12-16, pretty tight, hard to beat. Andy, we're going to give you a plus one. Have you used Etsy at all?
Andy Cross: I've only used Etsy once and I used it to buy one of our investing Fools. He was Paul Chi, who was and is still is a very big Phillies fan. I bought him a championship Phillies.
David Gardner: Philadelphia Phillies.
Andy Cross: Philadelphia Phillies mug. It's the only thing I ever bought in Etsy but I know the business had done pretty remarkably in creating a really interesting niche marketplace for unique goods.
David Gardner: Jim, an Etsy fan?
Jim Mueller: I've used it once. I got a Christmas present for my brother.
David Gardner: Nice.
Jim Mueller: He picked up the bass guitar and so I bought him a guitar strap for that and a box to put it in with his monogram on front.
David Gardner: Wonderful. You both have used Etsy and the stock by the way, at $112 a share today. Wow, it peaked late 2021 over $300 a share. That was a brief spike. It sped hard down from 300-100 in the succeeding early months of last year. It lost a huge amount of value. It's been bouncing around from 100-150. Over the last year, the stock well up from around $10 a share when Matt Argersinger was under calling it each time. It's been a 10-bagger really over five years or so. Great investment. But if you miss timed your way into Etsy at three times where it is today, you probably don't like it as much. But I think playing the long game, which is the only game that counts, it continues to look like a stock I think I'd like to have in my portfolio. Well, Andy, I see you at six, Jim, you were at two.
Jim Mueller: Point one.
David Gardner: Okay. Good point, one-tenth of a point I should have said, but I still don't think you can catch Andy, but that doesn't mean that you in any way flag with your energy and your focus here. Because you are going to finish strong.
Jim Mueller: I'm all over it.
David Gardner: You are and a lot of people will say we only remember the last question that happened. The last thing that happens is all you really remember. You're only as good as your last guess. Let's move on to stock Number 9 and this is another daily double format players at home, and of course my players here in the studio. Let's get ready for a horse of a different color. Now, Andy, I know you're a Buffett fan. I assume you've been out to Omaha to the Berkshire annual meeting before?
Andy Cross: David, actually, I have never been to that. It's very sad. I was just reflecting on this and I've never been there and then ever since they started broadcasting them online.
David Gardner: I am shocked by that.
Andy Cross: I know.
David Gardner: I mean, I'm not saying you're Mr. Buffett around the office, but you're certainly an admirer.
Andy Cross: Well, I've been following them, well, since the late '80. Yeah, late '80s.
Jim Mueller: I'm amazed that I've actually done something in investing that you haven't.
Andy Cross: Oh, dear me.
David Gardner: Jim you've been there?
Andy Cross: You've done a lot more than I have.
Jim Mueller: I have been there once.
David Gardner: Yeah.
Jim Mueller: The year they bought Burlington Northern.
David Gardner: Even in addition to Berkshire Hathaway, there's a whole of industry that surrounds Warren Buffett. There are people who admire him, copy what he does in some senses. They're probably some haters out there. I don't know why there would be. He's added so much value to the world as an entrepreneur and an investor and I think just a fine human being. There are a lot of people who follow and admire Warren Buffett and I'm certainly one of them. I've also not been to Omaha. I'm more like Andy than Jim on this count but we need to get to the stock. Andy, let me ask you, this one is going to be out of nowhere. Have you ever been to Boston?
Andy Cross: I have been in Boston.
David Gardner: All right. You haven't been to Omaha but you have been to Boston. Well, we're headed friends to Boston, Omaha and this is a comedy I don't know particularly well. Andy, it looks like you know, a little bit, maybe more than a little bit something about Boston Omaha.
Andy Cross: Well, it's a holding company with roots very tangentially tied to Warren Buffett. One of the co-founders and one of the co-CEO is the, I think the great nephew of Warren Buffett. There's a connection and often referred to much like Markel was referred to as a baby Berkshire. Sorry not to impact the range is a market cap, but it was.
David Gardner: I don't think Jim's going to object. I think Jim does not know like me, Jim does not know this company as well as you do. We both benefit from listening to some of your thoughts about it.
Jim Mueller: Obviously he's trying to throw me off.
David Gardner: Andy would never do that. Boston Omaha Corporation, ticker symbol BOC and I see the gentleman with pens in hand furiously scratching out their best guesses at the market cap for Boston Omaha Corporation, which looks to me to have come public in the summer of 2017. Boston Omaha Corporation, let's turn to Andy. Andy, what have you written down as your market cap range for BOC?
Andy Cross: I wrote down 565 million-1 billion.
David Gardner: Five hundred and sixty five million to 1 billion. Jim Mueller, your market cap for Boston Omaha?
Jim Mueller: No.
David Gardner: You're not allowed to say that it must be a numerical range. Now you might be helping out listeners at home because it sounds like you're waving the white flag and all we have to do as listeners is just to say I agree with Andy or Jim.
Jim Mueller: Agree with Andy. I wrote down 75 to 120 billion.
David Gardner: Excellent. Seventy-five to 120 billion. Again, while sometimes we're dramatically wrong if that ever happens, A, that's fun, B, none of us is following all of the stocks on our public exchanges, and C, some of us who specialize in Cancan dances on oil rigs can't be expected to hang out here with the BoC people. Well, I'm about to give the correct answer, but I want to make sure I give that extra five seconds for our listeners at home to say I agree with either Andy or Jim. Lock it in. Jim, you were right to say no. That was one of the better answers on the Market Cap Game Show in our history. The correct answer for the market cap for Boston Omaha Corporation, which is about where it was at its IPO price six years ago, is $655.54 million. It is a sub one billion dollar company.
Jim Mueller: Andy nailed it.
David Gardner: Andy obviously already showed recognition. Again, I'm picking these randomly from the stock universe here at The Motley Fool. Now that these guys have any idea what I'm coming up with, but some of us know the company you're specialized more than others. Yeah, we should listen to that guys.
Andy Cross: Sometimes it doesn't really matter like Mercado Libre, which I had exceptionally wrong.
David Gardner: I wouldn't necessarily get all the marketing apps to the stocks I own either. None of us is faultless and blameless and perfect at market caps. But in this case, Andy, you were pretty good. In fact, you were very good because your range of 565 billion to one billion was really good when we talk about $655 million company. Andy, we're going to give you a 7.1 of the better performances we've seen in Modern Market Cap Game Show history. Jim is still at 2.1. But remember.
Jim Mueller: It's all about a couple of points.
David Gardner: It's all about the last company. Let me turn to you in closing, Jim, how do you pay for things?
Jim Mueller: With my credit card almost all the time.
David Gardner: These days, do you have it on your phone and you're tapping Apple watch or you hand a piece of plastic?
Jim Mueller: It's a piece of plastic that goes into the little point of sale.
David Gardner: Without prying too much, do you have more than one credit card? Do you tend to specialize or diversify, what are you doing?
Jim Mueller: I have two and my wife has one. I use one about 98 percent of the time and the other one for Costco and gasoline.
David Gardner: This will be a little bit more prime, but could you give me your credit card number and you're expiration date, and also your security code?
Jim Mueller: In your dreams.
Andy Cross: Just among friends.
Jim Mueller: All dozens of our listeners.
David Gardner: Andy, I won't tell anyone, Jim, I promise. Well, I won't beat around the bush. I'm going to ask you, Jim, about MasterCard. I didn't ask you if that's a brand that you use your favorite and I'm not going to, but many people do. This is obviously one of the better known companies, not just in this quarter's Market Cap Game Show, but I would say in the world today. This company actually debuted as BankAmericard in September of 1958, which was, and I don't know the history here, but looking at Wikipedia, it's described as a notorious disaster, the BankAmericard debut. But it did begin to turn a profit by May of 1961, Bank of America deliberately kept that information secret and allowed then widespread negative impressions to linger in order to ward off competition. Does that sound like a strategy for playing the Market Cap Game Show by the way?
Jim Mueller: It sounds like a strategy that can be used in capitalism.
David Gardner: Sounds like it was. Let's hope there's a more conscious form of capitalism at MasterCard today. But anyway, this is a company not just in the S&P 500, but it's also in the S&P 100, one of the bigger company. I don't think that's a surprise to anybody. This would be one of the bigger market caps that we're featuring this time round. Well, without stalling any further, Jim, I'm going to turn to you and ask you for your market cap range for MasterCard, ticker symbol MA.
Jim Mueller: I think I just saw Andy glance. Andy, have you been writing down the market caps of all the companies?
Andy Cross: Yeah. That's my work.
Jim Mueller: As soon as you said that line, one of the bigger ones Andy goes.
David Gardner: I don't think Andy didn't buy help in that way. I think most of us, including you Jim, know that.
Jim Mueller: I'm going to say 350-600 billion.
David Gardner: 350-600 billion, big numbers, a bigger range. Andy, how well do you know MasterCard?
Andy Cross: Well, I own it, I should say, and my kids own it in their accounts. I do use the MasterCard, I think Apple's MasterCard.
David Gardner: Once we finish off there, would you give me your credit card number and expiration date, and security code?
Andy Cross: Well, David, that's got to go quid pro quo, so we'll have to have a negotiation about your card.
David Gardner: I will share with you my GameStop card. That's great.
Andy Cross: I have my bally's gym card number that I will give to you.
David Gardner: But getting back to where we should've been, Andy, Jim's market cap ranges $350 billion to $600 billion. Your thoughts before giving your final answer?
Andy Cross: Now that overlaps with the range I was thinking but to different degrees. I have to make a decision about whether I really trust Jim on this one. I think Jim's at the higher end of that, but I'm going to agree with Jim at the higher end so agree with Jim.
David Gardner: In many ways, it's been a hard debut for Jim, but this Market Cap Game Show. But I want you to know Jim, you can walk out of the studio with a smile on your face because you scored the only point of the game people remember. The last point of the game. It was a pretty broad range. First of all, we'll say 350-600. Yeah, only about $250 billion to play with there. But maybe ironically, just below that range at $331.41 billion. It was outside Jim's range and Andy I recall correctly, it was just a minute ago you said you agree inside that range.
Andy Cross: I agreed inside his range, but my range was much higher than that. But I covered Jim, so I thought Jim was going to,
David Gardner: Understood.
Andy Cross: But at the higher end.
David Gardner: I would say both of you guys thought that MasterCard was a bigger market cap, which might mean in addition to owning the stock which you already do and maybe you want to add some more, put it on our respective watch list because yeah, $331 billion is nothing to sneeze at, and yet we could see it bigger.
Andy Cross: Yeah, it is one of the big global brands and Visa is actually bigger than MasterCard I'm pretty sure on the market cap side, but I thought it was somewhat larger than 500 billion, so I had that wrong.
David Gardner: Visa, $449 billion by the way. One of the 26 or so companies that has a ticker symbol, Visa, just the V I'm sure MasterCard would have loved to have just the M, but that would be, of course, owned by Macy's, which probably predates, I think, maybe significantly so the formation of MasterCard.
Andy Cross: All single-digit letters used?
Jim Mueller: No, I think there are 23 that are used.
Andy Cross: Well, Allegheny was why but that was bought by Berkshire Hathaway so that-
Jim Mueller: I don't think he was used.
David Gardner: I have to admit I hadn't really checked, but you gentlemen are right neither queue nor why entrepreneurs of the future has [laughs] been taken. This seems like an incredible oversight. Somebody should own each of the single-letter ticker symbols on the market. I think if there's one thing to conclude from this quarter show, it's that right there. That somebody needs to grab those. People are jumping after three-word URLs, possibly overpaying for them today on the Internet, hoping there's some value there and Q2 sits there, is sitting there unclaimed on the New York Stock Exchange.
Why just said, well said, we'll leave it right there. Congratulations to Andy Cross for seven points in this version of the Market Cap Game Show. I'm going to say congratulations to Jim Mueller for A, making his debut. B, for racking up three points against our chief investment officer, C, for a 0.1 that he earned the first bonus ever given, and D for winning, arguably the only one that matters what people are left with, the last one. Andy, does it feel like you really want or do you live with a little bit of a sour taste in your mouth?
Andy Cross: Now I leave. If I had not such great respect for Jim, I would leave with a lot of bitterness, so but a little bit of interest.
David Gardner: Well, we're always reminded when we play this game. It's not actually about us. It's about you, dear listener, a dear fellow fool at home. We hope that you scored at least three points and maybe five. Maybe somebody scored 10. If you did score 10, tweet us at @RBI podcast at The Motley Fool, the world wants to know if you got a perfect score on this quarter's Market Cap Game show. Coming up next week. We've got your mailbag.
It is the end of March. Any reflections you have on this Market Cap Game Show or any of our other conversations like my beautiful question conversation last week with Warren Berger, our most welcomed [email protected] is our email address. You can always tweet us @rbipodcast. Well, for my talented guest stars for both their intelligence and their good nature. Thank you, Jim Mueller. Thank you, Andy Cross and we all three, join and thank you for suffering Fools gladly once again, this quarter with the latest market cap game show. Fool on.
