Today it's the OG, Matt Argersinger up against the globetrotter, Bill Mann! Who will make it to next week's final? You will, Fool!
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This video was recorded on March 13, 2024.
David Gardner: Last week, this week, and next week, make up our first-ever March Market Cap Madness, a final four of past champions of our market cap game show, who are back this month to compete for our 2024 national championship. That's right. We have our own March Madness on this podcast and pass champions, Bill Mann and Matt Argersinger, are joining the competition this week to see who will out-market cap the other.
Who will survive and advance to play for our national championship next week. But Bill and Matt aren't the only competitors this week as Yoda Juan said, "There is another,"and that is you. That's right. You're playing to you and any friends whom you may be competing against this week. You will also generate a final score from 0 to 10. Can you outscore my talented contestants? It's our second semi-final March Market \cap Madness. Only on this week's Rule Breaker Investing.
Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing last week featured Andy Cross, out lasting Emily Flippen for the wind, six points to four, therefore, Andy awaits the winner of this week's March Market Cap Madness semi-final. Joining me in this tournament of champions are Bill Mann and Matt Argersinger. As I've said on every other past Market Cap Game Show, we're all joined by third player, and to us the most important one, and that's you.
That's right. You, our dear fellow Foolish listener, as we crank up our market cap gameshow music, let me just briefly remind, especially our new listeners, new players. I'll be mentioning a stock. Neither Bill nor Matt knows what stock is coming. I'll turn to one of them to talk about whatever stock they didn't know what's coming, and that Fool will do his best to state a numerical range within which the market cap falls. The other contestant and you playing at home will simply say, I agree, meaning it's accurate, the stocks value falls inside that range or I disagree. I think it's outside that stated range.
You simply agree or disagree. If you get it right, give yourself a +1. That's the Market Cap Game Show. We're focused on the real market caps of real stocks. Nobody knows what's coming. A perfect score would be 10. Bill Mann as the host of the Motley Fool Morning Show on Motley Fool Live, the television channel on our website. Bill is Lead Adviser for Global Partners, Motley Fool Firecrackers, and the Director of Small Cap Research here at The Motley Fool. Bill, welcome back to the Market Cap Game Show.
Bill Mann: David, do we have to do the entire thing in Yoda voice?
David Gardner: You could.
Bill Mann: Can we?
David Gardner: You can if you want.
Bill Mann: Oh, my God.
David Gardner: Except that Rick, our producer, is the ultimate arbiter, so if we hear you as Bill Mann, it means you didn't do a good job with your Yoda.
Bill Mann: Fair enough.
David Gardner: Well, Bill, welcome back. You share at least two things, by the way, with Andy Cross. First, you both in your most recent appearance on this game show, narrowly defeated Emily Flippen. Second, you both are going to be confronted by personal questions, arguably slightly two personal questions on the Market Cap Game Show. Bill, are you ready?
Bill Mann: I am. I'm just interested to know whether Andy Cross is the NC state to our Houston versus Georgetown in this particular battle.
David Gardner: Loving the March Madness vibe. Thank you. Bill, here comes my personal question for you, Bill. In 50 words or less, what's your skin care regimen?
Bill Mann: Oh, my gosh. I do wash and use CeraVe for the scratchy bits. Probably not often enough. I should probably have a better routine than I have. In fact, I guess, it's giving it a little bit of an overstatement to call it a routine as opposed to an occasional.
David Gardner: What about specifically your lips. Bill did you anything with your lips?
Bill Mann: I'm a CarMax junkie.
David Gardner: I think of CarMax is being a place that I can get a used cars, sell mine. What are we talking about right now?
Bill Mann: I think we're talking about CarMax and not CarMax.
David Gardner: Thank you. I need help. As you can see, I don't know much about eyes, lips, face, but ELF beauty, ticker symbol ELF, a recent high flier and a Motley Fool pick is Stock number 1, Bill. Thank you by the way, for sharing. I don't think you overshadowed and that may or may not have been 50 words or less well done. Bill Mann, what is your stated market cap range for ELF beauty, eyes, lips, face, ticker symbol ELF.
Bill Mann: We had the opportunity to interview their CFO in 2020, and it was a fantastic interview, and it is still available on fool.com. That stock has done very well since then. I'm going to say 6.1 billion to 9.2 billion.
David Gardner: Matt, I won't ask you so squarely what your skin care regimen is in full, but would you give us maybe a tip?
Matt Argersinger: Well, compare it to Bill's regimen, mine is pretty limited. I think I just splashed some soap on my face and water, and call it good to go, but I have to say, Bill has a much better clue than I do. He's doing something right over there.
Bill Mann: That's called fat.
David Gardner: That very humbled, Bill is such a good looking guy. You don't need to say that about yourself. Matt Argersinger, 6.1-9.2 billion players at home. Do you want to agree or disagree?
Matt Argersinger: I'm going to agree with that range. It's a big enough range and I feel like Bill and his team know this company pretty well. Having interviewed the CFO, I'm going to say agree.
David Gardner: Close. But the bad news, Matt, is the stocks done even better than that. It has been a monster. In fact, we're recording the afternoon of Tuesday, March 12th, right in the middle of March Madness, and it's up another few percentage points today. ELF beauty, its market cap, three billion, 11, and 1/3 billion three repeating. Chuck one up for Bill Mann because Bill, you were wrong. But Matt I agreed with you, and so somehow you get the point.
Bill Mann: I feel he should get half a point, because I really thought I was right.
David Gardner: That's not how this game work. But Bill, I do appreciate. This is a company pretty well. Share a little bit more what you like about eyes, lips, face.
Bill Mann: They have a very unique marketing strategy. They'd go and put end-caps in a number of drug and retail stores. They've just done a really good job in terms of finding their market niche and going deep. They also are going up against, I guess, you would say surprisingly on focused competition, and they are deeply focused.
Matt Argersinger: I will say I didn't know it's actually short for eyes, lips, and face. I liked that. I thought ELF there was probably some person's name or something fancy, but.
Bill Mann: Or the motor oil company?
Matt Argersinger: Well, eyes, lips, face.
David Gardner: You guys know this better than I. This is not a stock I follow, but co-founder and celebrity aesthetician, Scott-Vincent Borba, again, co-founder. Do you know this? He left the business just a couple of years ago to become a catholic priest? This is the guy who wrote makeup for dummies. It wasn't even a dummies book. He just entitled to make up for dummies 10 plus years ago. It's like a serial entrepreneur. He has a very handsome face, and he obviously uses his own stuff. This is a company that was started by dude's. The two co-founders are men, and one of them has now stepped away, and he's in seminary studying to become a catholic priests. Fun facts for Stock number 1.
Bill Mann: Fascinating.
David Gardner: Let's move on to Stock number 2. Matt Argersinger works on the dividend investor and real estate winners services here at the Motley Fool, aiming to identify and recommend compelling income oriented opportunities for our members. You can also catch Matt on the Dividend Show on Motley Fool Live and as a regular guest on the Motley Fool Money podcast and radio show. Matt, welcome back.
Matt Argersinger: Thank you, David. Great to be here. It's cool to be automatically in the final four. I didn't have to go through the whole 64. What's the 32? I don't know what Sweet 16.
Matt Argersinger: No. We went through 128. I think. I'm not really keeping up, but I'll say this Matt, you are the OG of this game. Anybody who's a longtime listener of Rule Breaker Investing knows that you were there as we crafted this game together back in the day. Welcome back.
Bill Mann: Lifetime pass.
Matt Argersinger: I'll take it.
David Gardner: Well, it's worth at least one semi-final. Welcome back. Matt. Let me change gears now. Matt, if I were to watch a Time-lapse movie of how Matt Argersinger, the adult, spends his time at amusement parks. What am I seeing?
Matt Argersinger: You're seeing pretty much an empty field, because Matt Argersinger hates to go to amusement parks.
Bill Mann: Because there's a lot of yelling or despondency.
Matt Argersinger: I'm weirdly not a huge fan of end-use parts. I will go and if my five-year-old son decides that he wants to go, we're going to go.
David Gardner: I mean, if you're five-years-old. You want to go to an amusement park, you need her dad to say yes.
Matt Argersinger: I will say yes, reluctantly.
Bill Mann: Bad call some tolerance part.
David Gardner: Matt, when you think of amusement park brands, what comes to mind?
Matt Argersinger: Well, I think Six Flags immediately comes to mind. I think, Hershey park
David Gardner: Hershey, Pennsylvania.
Matt Argersinger: Hershey, Pennsylvania. Dutchland is another one.
David Gardner: When you think of present day amusement park CEOs who wants worked at a completely different business from the one they're working at today, who nevertheless guided that other business from a stock price of $2 a share to $140 a share over 15 years, what business comes to mind?
Matt Argersinger: The business of Middleby comes to mind, and CEO, Selim Bassoul.
David Gardner: Well said, and that is Stock number 2. Middleby Corp, a longtime Motley Fool pick back in the days. Early days of hidden gems, my brother Tom and his team, Bill, you probably had a hand in this, identified Middleby Corp and what a monster stock it was. We later added it to Rule Breakers. Selim Bassoul, the genius behind its long run. Selim now the CEO of Six Flags. By the way, we'll talk a little bit about that in a minute, but more to the point, Matt Argersinger, what is your stated market cap range these days for Middleby Corporation, ticker symbol MI.
David Gardner: Well, I know it's far from being that small-cap hidden gem. It was back in the day when Tom, his team picked it, I think I'm going to say 16-20 billion. Sixteen billion to $20 billion players at home. Bill Mann, do you want to agree or disagree? Before you do Bill, throw us some Intel here.
Bill Mann: Interesting story about the first time that Tom picked Middleby for Hidden Gems. He and I were both picking stocks for the service at the time and independently both came up with the same company.
David Gardner: Wow.
Bill Mann: Without having consulted with each other and so Tom said, I'm going to take this one and so I had to pick something else.
David Gardner: Well, it's market cap has changed from back in that day and Matt has put it out there from $16-20 billion bill, agree or disagree.
Bill Mann: It's a really good range. I think it's a little high. I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Bill Mann two, Matt Argersinger so far shut out players at home. If you said outside that range, give yourself a plus one. It's a smaller company, friends, it's eight and a quarter billion dollars today. It's been treading water. In fact, Middleby last year spent much of its time at $140 a share. That same $140 share level that I mentioned, it surged to by 2018. So yeah, and this is even one that in 2013, I noticed it was no longer, I don't think it was a Hidden Gems holding anymore and I thought puzzles a genius, we should have this a Motley Fool services. So I recommended it for Motley Fool Rule Breakers. It's up 207%, which isn't bad over 11 years, although it's actually trailing the market now. The market is up more than three times in value over the last 11 years. Matt, do you feel inspired maybe to go to six flags at some point?
Matt Argersinger: That's an inspiration I don't think I'll ever fell.
David Gardner: Now Middleby may have let left a slightly bad taste in your mouth as we move on to stock number 3. Bill Mann, let's play word association. Shall we?
Bill Mann: I'm in.
David Gardner: Are you ready?
Bill Mann: Fish. Oh, no, sorry. You haven't.
David Gardner: No, i get to start and you react. You ready?
Bill Mann: Sorry, I just got excited.
David Gardner: Matt still say fish. It's close. You ready? Cruise?
Bill Mann: Fish. I've got fish on the brain now.
David Gardner: I'll try again. Cruise.
Bill Mann: Fish.
David Gardner: Well done. Let me shift gears. The second one for you Bill, amusement.
Bill Mann: Tolerance.
David Gardner: One more for you. Acruisement.
Bill Mann: I'm going to say Carnival.
David Gardner: Wow, I wasn't actually intend to you to realize that that was the correct answer, but that is stock number 3. Has the man family ever cruised somewhere?
Bill Mann: So my wife's family is from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, which is cruise capital of the US. So yes, we have been on several cruises and really enjoy them as multi-generational family time.
David Gardner: Have you ever been on a Carnival Cruise Line?
Bill Mann: Once. And that's all I want to say.
David Gardner: So as not to besmirch the reputation of the Carnival Corporation, which is the name of the company today, ticker symbol CCL. You'll leave it right there. Bill, I'm about to ask you the market cap range for Carnival Corp, except what? Stock number 3 is a throwdown round to remind our players at home, both Bill and Matt will now write down their market cap range for Carnival Corporation, pencils out Fools. All you have to do as a player at home is once Bill and Matt state their market caps, decide who you want to go with. Is Bill's range, the merry-go-round you want to ride on? Or is it Matt's range, even though he really doesn't like amusement parks? If you guess right, give yourself a point.
Oh, and by the way, there's a chance they'll both be right, especially if they use wide ranges. If they're both right, the tighter range wins the point. If they're both wrong, well, that would never happen but if it ever did, like last week, what had happened when neither Andy nor Emily had Booz Allen Hamilton inside their range, whoever's range parameter is closer to the actual market cap gets plus one. Again, this is a throwdown. We do this twice every show. Thanks as always to Sam sudden death Stephens for this good thought and improvement to our gameshow. This is a throwdown stock number 3, Carnival Corporation. Bill, I'm going to turn to you first. What is your market cap range for CCL?
Bill Mann: This is so hard because I know they had a a near-death experience during COVID. It was a very tough time for them. I really have no idea, but I have written 17.6 billion to 26.3 billion.
David Gardner: 17.6 billion to 26.3 billion. You're right about that near-death experience, Bill. Matt, what did you write down?
Matt Argersinger: I just say first, amusement parks and cruise ships. Probably my two leased desired trips or entertainment.
David Gardner: I randomized these stocks. I apologize, Matt.
Matt Argersinger: Oh, no.
David Gardner: I set you up for failure this show.
Matt Argersinger: Not at all.
David Gardner: It's not my intent.
Bill Mann: The Matt Argersinger hostility show.
Matt Argersinger: But it's probably why I'm going a little smaller than Bill. Well, a lot smaller actually, I'm in between 10-14 billion for Carnival.
David Gardner: You've heard it. Bill had at 17.6 billion to 26.3 billion using the power of the decimal point. Matt, comfortable just rounding up these numbers of companies he doesn't even really like 10 billion to $14 billion. So now it's time for you, dear player at home to say either Bill or Matt. Who do you agree with? Three, 2, 1, say it. If you said Bill, give yourself up plus one. It's not really fair, is it Fort Lauderdale, Florida? He's been on the product.
Bill Mann: I've been on the product. I really had, once again, no idea. What's the actual number?
David Gardner: The actual number, and it's important for me to say that is 20.16 billion. So that is indeed almost squarely right in the middle of Bill's range.
Bill Mann: I feel so great about my random guess.
Matt Argersinger: I feel like Emily Flippen.
David Gardner: Well, last week, Emily got down for nothing and made a raging comeback. So chin up there Argersinger, by the way, Bill referenced this. CCL Carnival Corporation dropped from $50 a share at the start of COVID to $10 a share in basically one month. By the way, it's been mostly bouncing between $10 and $20 a share ever since. It really hasn't returned to its pre-COVID levels. It has not been a great stock to be invested in bouncing around there, but $20.2 billion, basically rounding. This is a big, substantial American enterprise.
Bill Mann: Yes, they had to raise a substantial amount of money to stay afloat and they did so not on great terms, which is never what you want to see from a business. But on the other hand, they did survive a crisis that was almost purpose-built to destroy the cruise industry. So kudos to them.
David Gardner: Well said. Let's move on to stock number 4, Matt Argersinger let's talk gig economy a little bit here. We're living in an age of digital nomads where work comes in gigs and bites rather than years and ladders. And where every coffee shop is a potential office bustling with the sound of typing and the smell of possibility. What aspects Matt, of the gig most have helped you in your recent years?
Matt Argersinger: Well, I'd say having a young child at home has been create. I feel like I've had more flexibility, so I've been able to see him do things like a dance competition this past week or soccer camps and things like that where if the gig economy wasn't as vibrant as it is today, I might not have had time to actually do a lot of that.
David Gardner: There are, of course, a lot of different services that we can get often we're tapping our phone to get something or do something these days.
Matt Argersinger: That's right.
David Gardner: Are you a participant?
Matt Argersinger: I am a heavy user of the Starbucks app and the Chipotle app and all those kind of digital ordering features. I think that's made a huge difference. Ordering things at home or to pick up the time that you save has been pretty tremendous in this economy.
David Gardner: Absolutely agreed, Matt, now when you don't travel to amusement parks, but maybe still my travel on a family vacation, where do you typically stay as a family?
Matt Argersinger: Well, we love going skiing. I'd say we love to go to resorts where you can run on the mountain so you can ski and you can also have, there's places you can take the kid and do fun things, and so those are definitely our destinations usually.
David Gardner: Stock number 4 is a little company whose ticker symbol is Abnb. Matt, I know part of your background is that you've owned rental properties in and around the greater DC area. I don't know where you are with that right now at this stage of your busy life, but have you ever used Airbnb either on the supply side or the demand side?
Matt Argersinger: Both sides, my wife and I were a host for several years with multiple Airbnbs, but we've used it also on trips. Especially when you're doing family trips or get together with friends, you can get a full house with multiple bedrooms. It's great experience.
Bill Mann: That's all the cruise ship.
David Gardner: I feel like Matt, I had you as a fish out of water earlier with a few of our companies, maybe not so much. This one will see because my question for you Matt Argersinger for stock number four is, what is your stated market cap range for Airbnb ticker symbol A-B-N-B?
Matt Argersinger: I am going to say the range for Airbnb is 95 billion to 110 billion.
David Gardner: 95 billion to 110 billion. Sticking again with rounded numbers and issuing decimal points, part of Bill's magic I think is the use of the decimal.
Bill Mann: No.
David Gardner: 95 to 110 billion. Bill before you give your answer, are you an Airbnb fan?
Bill Mann: Yes. It is a fantastic experience if you've got multi-generations. If you are joining up with friends, I think it's more fun than being in a hotel. There are points in time in which and opportunities that we take to go stay in Airbnbs but I do like the room service and the having the rooms made for you that you get in hotels as well.
David Gardner: It's true. So you're a traditionalist at heart Bill?
Bill Mann: Yeah.
David Gardner: Matt said 95 billion to $110 billion players at home. Bill Mann, do you want to agree or disagree?
Bill Mann: He went with the double round with the round numbers on both ends. I'm going to go outside.
David Gardner: And score one for Argersinger. He is on the boards. That was a very good call. Matt obviously knows this business. He probably had a pretty good sense Matt, of the market cap, but you don't want to be too accurate and too authoritative otherwise Bill would just say, I agree with the guy.
Matt Argersinger: Right. I think I had a good sense of this one. I just want to pick a range that I hopefully, he was thinking. I thought he might think my guess was a little high. That's what I'm not sure.
Bill Mann: I thought it was low actually.
David Gardner: Oh, you thought it was low?
Bill Mann: I actually thought it was low.
David Gardner: Well, he pretty much nailed it the up to the minute because that's what i do before the show as I run our market caps to have them fresh, $105.29 billion. That is a very big business.
Matt Argersinger: I got a little lucky there. I was actually going to see 95 to 105. I had 110 because I wasn't sure I know the stock's been [inaudible] .
Bill Mann: See he is the real estate guy. I figured I was being played, but that would have been spectacular.
David Gardner: It does make it a little bit more fun for us in the studio. We have no idea what our players at home are scoring. They may have 4 or 0, we're not even sure but for you guys, I'm looking you both in the eye, 3-1. Matts on the board. Let's move on to stock number five, Bill, amusement parks, cruise ships, the gig economy, not all businesses are this engaging or interesting or fun to discuss.
Bill Mann: For example?
David Gardner: You can't ask me that. I'm the MC of this game show. Let me pick it up right there. Some businesses and you'll appreciate this Bill Mann. Some businesses are downright boring. Bill, when you think of boring companies, bore us with a few snippets that come to mind.
Bill Mann: Paint, chemicals, deer repellent. Did you know that there's a publicly traded deer repellent company?
David Gardner: Wow, no.
Bill Mann: American Vanguard ticker, AVD. How boring is that?
David Gardner: I'm interested.
David Gardner: Well, this company may or may not be as boring as American Vanguard, Bill before I tell you the name, let me give you some of its brand names. As it owns many. You ready, you can stop me anytime when you know the company. Here I go. Identity card, Seaton. Electro Mark, PDC. Safety shop, emedco. Jam, Scaff tag dog. Climate communications and personal concepts compliance, that's all one thing. Big badges, ID warehouse, secure met, you want me to keep going?
Bill Mann: I may need you to.
David Gardner: Signals, Stickolor, it's like color but with stick in place of the C, Precision Dynamics Corporation, Accidental Health and Safety. Safety Signs and Service. Do I need to keep going? I had a little bit more, I'm running out trophy vulgar Australia, Carol, quick crimp, ASPC, you don't know Transpo safe?
Bill Mann: It sounds like Brady Corp., but I don't believe that it is.
Matt Argersinger: It is Exede Brady Corporation.
David Gardner: Does Bill know everything.
Bill Mann: Wow.
David Gardner: Ticker symbol BRC. What's more important is does he know the market cap? We're about to find that out, but yeah, you nailed it, Bill Mann. Brady Corporation ticker symbol, BRC, this used to be WH Brady. Some of us grew up hearing that name, but still, this is a long standing company that really blends into the background. I don't know if paints in there somewhere Bill or deer repellent, but there is some safety going on there and there are some industrial products too and they're a lot of brands.
Bill Mann: Yeah, and if you need labeling done, Brady's your company.
David Gardner: Well said, seems Matt, like Bill knows this company will see. I would say Brady Corporation has its own boring tail to tell. But let's get a little bit more exciting now and ask you Bill Mann to state your market cap range for Brady Corp ticker symbol BRC.
Bill Mann: I'm going to say 1.6 billion to 2.5 billion
David Gardner: 1.6 billion to 2.5 billion players at home. Matt Argersinger. Matt, I see you resting your chin on your fist.
Matt Argersinger: I feel like Bill knows this company. But does he know the market cap? I going to stranger read here. It's amazing that he named the company. I'm tempted to say yes. Yes, I'm going to say it's in that range.
David Gardner: It was close. It almost pains me to think how many brands they are managing toward a market cap of $2.79 billion, which was a little bit overbuilt. A high-end of this range, he said 1.6 to 2.5. Bill, That is so many different brands and companies to manage for a market cap of 2.8 billion decades later.
Bill Mann: It's not a high-growth business, but they've generated a pretty good return on capital over that time. You nailed it when you talked about boring. Pretty good businesses can be boring though.
David Gardner: We agree. And in fact, the last 25 years checking the market as measured by the S&P 500 is up four times in value. Brady Corp is up five times in value, and that's without including dividends. But that makes sense because Brady Corp doesn't pay dividends. Brady Corporation, by the way founded in 1914 by William H. Brady. WH Brady as the company was known for most of its history. This was in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Ever been there?
Bill Mann: I have not been.
David Gardner: You'll have to go. Take the tour. It's better than a cruise.
Matt Argersinger: Well, there's no ocean there, so at least I can avoid that.
David Gardner: In Eau Claire, Wisconsin, it's first products Bill alluded to this included promotional calendars and painted signs. Brady Corporation, Bill Mann, four, Matt Argersinger, one. Guys, it's half-time.
We have a first. So we're breaking new ground with this show. It's our first ever Market Cap Game Show. Halftime interviews, first with the leader and then with the runner up now, of course, this show can't yet afford its own sideline reporter, so let me just try to grab Bill Mann before he disappears into the locker room. Bill, congratulations first of all. What do you think was your key to taking the lead in the first half.
Bill Mann: David, over this last week, we've worked really hard to institute a decimal strategy and I really don't think that they did not really knew what was coming, but I do expect he's such a good fool that he's going make adjustments during halftime, so we need to be ready.
David Gardner: Thank you for that Bill. Bill how do you have any plan to maintain this momentum in the second half?
Bill Mann: Both teams are going to come after it and we're just going to try and be ready for whatever Matt brings.
David Gardner: Matt Argersinger, I'm sure you're surprised to be down at this point. Anything that Bill did that may have surprised you.
Matt Argersinger: I don't know what he told you, but the whole decimal thing is really throwing me off over here. It makes me think he's lot more confident in his ranges and so I might need to change my strategy up for the second.
David Gardner: I'm sure you are going to make a few adjustments here at the half. What can we maybe expect to see different from you in the second half?
Matt Argersinger: I just think I need to be smarter. Play harder, better. Start being better.
David Gardner: We're back. I really enjoy the Brady Corporation ads that ran during halftime. Who knew they still advertised.
Matt Argersinger: They've got a budget.
David Gardner: And Clement communications and personal concepts compliance, which is a single brand, phenomenal. Let's move on to stock Number 6. Matt, I'm not going to ask you about Etsy.
Bill Mann: Thank you.
David Gardner: I want to put that out there right now. And again, anybody who's been around the Market Cap Game Show over the years knows exactly what we're talking about. By the way, what's Etsy's marketing?
Matt Argersinger: Oh, no. You know what? I finally buckled down, I prepare for this. You should give a range or am I going to give just said.
David Gardner: This is not the stock.
Matt Argersinger: Etsy, I know I looked at it. It might have changed by the trading of today, but it was right around 8.3 billion when I looked at it last.
David Gardner: That's pretty much exactly what on the Market Cap.
Matt Argersinger: I'm going to lose this game probably badly, but I just had to get it right.
David Gardner: And I wish it counted, but it doesn't. But there's another company that's recurred many times on the Market Cap Game Show. Etsy, by the way, has appeared eight times in our 27 shows. This company has actually appeared six times, and having randomized again from the Fool 500 this week for the show, it's about to appear a seventh time. Matt, any guesses?
Matt Argersinger: No guesses.
Bill Mann: I just questioned the randomizer, David, I've got to admit.
David Gardner: People are always going to shoot the messenger and the guy doing the randomization. I get a bill. Matt, that was a ridiculous question from me. Let me give you a hint just to spot you up a little bit more. Like Etsy, this company's name also has just four letters. Like Etsy, this company's ticker symbol is the company name. And like Etsy, this company named begins with an e.
Matt Argersinger: I think I've got it, eBay.
David Gardner: You nailed it. Stock Number 6, coming out of the randomizer is eBay. Now, Etsy of course, goes with a capital E, eBay continues decades later to rock the e, but that is stock Number 6, eBay ticker symbol already aforementioned, E-B-A-Y. Matt Argersinger, you don't look as confident on your guests at eBay's market cap as you clearly were for Etsy's market cap. But we are going to ask you now for your stated market cap range for eBay.
Matt Argersinger: Well, I'm going to bring out my decimal game because it seems to be working for Bill.
David Gardner: As you know, the halftime interviews really matter.
Matt Argersinger: I'm going to say, 44.4-52.7 billion.
David Gardner: 44.4 billion to 52.7 billion. Bill coming out of the locker room now, I know you're feeling great. Without giving your answer yet, just reflect on Matt's demeanor as you encounter him here in the second half.
Bill Mann: He's planned scared, I think.
Matt Argersinger: I've got ice flowing through my veins, so give me your veins.
Bill Mann: Or, maybe he wants me to believe that he's playing scared.
Matt Argersinger: That's right.
David Gardner: Well, Matt said for eBay 44.4 billion to 52.7 billion players at home. Bill Mann, do you want to agree or disagree?
Bill Mann: This is my favorite Pig Latin company. I'm going to say the outside.
David Gardner: Bill takes a 5-1 lead. Matt, like Etsy, you under guessed this one, suggesting maybe you should have it on your watch list because, often, when we picture things bigger than they actually are, we might have a vision into the future. We might say that these guys should be up there because eBay's market cap, as we speak is 26.37 billion.
Matt Argersinger: Oh my goodness.
David Gardner: Right about half of the top of your range. You weren't that far off in the low-end, 44.4, but eBay $26.37 billion. By the way, eBay is up 120% over the last decade, the S&P 500 is up 180%, so an under performer.
Matt Argersinger: I'm surprised at that. I'm surprised it's that small and eBay, I'd consider myself a power user of eBay and I know it's not as popular, as massive as the marketplaces that we used to be, but I just feel it's got such a dedicated base of buyers and sellers there. I'm surprised it hasn't done better.
David Gardner: I would say add this one to your watch list. Now you're talking about being a power user share.
Matt Argersinger: Well, if you're in the collectibles market like I tend to be buying and selling.
David Gardner: I don't know that.
Matt Argersinger: It is probably the second or third biggest platform for those transactions. If you're going to comic books, cards, collectibles, all that stuff, you've got to be on eBay.
David Gardner: Phenomenal. And I just bet Matt, you're going to remember the market cap for that one going for.
Matt Argersinger: It's my new Etsy.
David Gardner: Let's move on to Stock Number 7 now. Just the little studio that the three of us find ourselves in. Matt has his backing up against the studio. Well, we're going to play this one all the way through because we're not playing for ourselves, we're playing for you, dear listener at home.
Bill Mann: And we both might be losing to listener at home.
David Gardner: That's absolutely right. I count it. Bill five, Matt one. There probably is someone listening right now. Who has six points? So the game must go on and Matt, I think a lot of us are cheering for you, your spirit and I was inspired by your halftime interview. But let's now turn back to Bill Mann. Bill do you follow spin-offs just generally?
Bill Mann: I love spin-off.
David Gardner: Why?
Bill Mann: Well, because in investing, a lot of times people don't really want to own the spin-off. They wan to own the parent company. When you have a company that's spins off, a lot of times you see a lot of opportunity in the price that comes after the spin-off.
David Gardner: Thinking now of the year that just was built, 2023, any spin-offs come to mind?
Bill Mann: I think Kellogg's spun off this last year.
David Gardner: Bill, do you know everything?
Bill Mann: No.
Matt Argersinger: Yes. He's a walking encyclopedia when it comes to investing. He clearly is.
Bill Mann: Did that happen?
David Gardner: Yes. I myself did not even know there was a Kellogg's spin-off last year. Admittedly, I'm not keeping up as much as you gentlemen are, but Bill, you have correctly spotted stock Number 7 out there in the wilds. And it's a wild and crazy world WK Kellogg Corp lives in. Some of us still start our days with a good breakfast cereal. I admit I don't. I start my day with coffee. I'm still having coffee in the afternoon. Guys, cornflakes?
Matt Argersinger: Not so much these days. Granola now and then with yogurt is about the cereals I get.
Bill Mann: I'm not a picky eater at all, but I don't eat cereal.
David Gardner: While WK Kellogg is the North American cereal division, very specifically, it was hived off from the rest of the original Kellogg company in October 2023. The other division we can talk about in a minute was renamed. I didn't know this. I bet Bill does. Matt, maybe you and I didn't know this. Get this. I hadn't heard because I'm not keeping up Kellanova.
Matt Argersinger: Kellanova. Now, that is.
Bill Mann: Somewhat didn't need to turn up for work that day. That's not good.
David Gardner: But we're sticking with WK Kellogg. Bill, the ticker symbol is KLG. This is the North American cereal division spun-off, standing by its lonesome here in 2024. What is your market cap range for ticker symbol KLG?
Bill Mann: I'm going to say 7 billion to 9 billion.
David Gardner: Seven billion to 9 billion. Getting rid of the decimal.
Matt Argersinger: He is playing chess, I'm playing checkers over here. He's changing a strategy. I'm more confused than ever.
David Gardner: You're going to need to get this one right, Matt.
Matt Argersinger: I think so. And in the first half I was going inside his ranges. I trusted him. I got a pivot, so I'm going outside the range.
David Gardner: Players at home, Matt has said, disagree. What do you say? Say it. We hear you. If you disagreed, give yourself eight plus one. Matt Argersinger, two, Bill Mann, five. Matt, you just doubled your score in one breath.
Matt Argersinger: I love it. And can I say one thing that the Kellanova the other part of the company? Is that worse or better than Kenvue, which was spun off from Johnson & Johnson last year as well, which is actually the company I thought you might be going with.
David Gardner: Good point. And I didn't remember Kenvue, but Kellanova Pop-Tarts, Kellanova Pringles. These are big brands, much bigger than all of the brands of WH Brady combined.
Matt Argersinger: I love to get Bill's opinion on this. If I was accompanied like that, the head Pop-Tarts and Pringles, I would take my best-selling brand, and that would be the name of my company. The Pringles Corp. For example.
Bill Mann: You don't think fake Latin when you think Pop-Tarts and Pringles.
Matt Argersinger: I really don't.
Bill Mann: They should be Pringles.
David Gardner: I get the nova part. It's a new thing. I guess it was Kellogg's, Kella, K-E-L-L-A, like hella by Kella. But let's talk briefly about WK Kellogg Corp. Bill, you noted this. This company, as I mentioned, spun-off in October. The stock launched at $18 a share. It was at 10 in a matter of days. But had you bought at $10 anywhere in October, 2023, all month long, and including Halloween, which might have seen scary. You'd be pretty happy today with the stock back to 14.5, so up 45% in less than half a year. Now again, Kellanova, you have the Pop-Tarts, you've got the Pringles, other brands, its market cap today, $18.4 billion and yet, since Halloween, it's up less than 5% and that's scary.
Bill Mann: It baffles me so much that they went with the name Kellanova. I could not agree more. Lead with your best.
Matt Argersinger: Absolutely.
Bill Mann: Pringles corporations.
David Gardner: Pringles Corp. Love it. Let's move on to Stock Number 8, which has a similarly, to me anyway, chuckle worthy name. Matt, do you have a car?
Matt Argersinger: I do.
David Gardner: Do you have a car that you talk to?
Matt Argersinger: Well, if talking to Siri because the car has Apple play counts, yes I do.
David Gardner: So you do talk to your car? Do you find yourself wanting to talk to your car?
Matt Argersinger: Not particularly, no.
David Gardner: Do you trust your car to receive voice commands that would trigger reservations, directions, and payments?
Matt Argersinger: Not really. I trusted to call my wife when I need to, but that's about it right now.
David Gardner: So this is not a company I previously new, although it was spun out from Nuance corporation, the voice recognition, I don't know. We'll say dynamo of about 15 years ago or so. Bill, you know everything. Do you know what company we're talking about?
Bill Mann: I don't know what their spin off was, but Nuance was a former, and I would say disappointing recommendation of mine from hidden gems.
David Gardner: And I also had a hand in another service recommending Nuance. And it seemed to do OK for a while, although I don't think things have ended up great. This particular company, I hope I'm not stepping on any toes or upsetting anybody, but, this has one of the most ridiculous, seemingly made up, meaningless brands that I can think of. So generic that it's hard for me even to remember to say it to you as I ask Matt, for Stock Number 8, the name of this company is Cerence. It's spelled C-E-R-E-N-C-E, Cerence,.
Bill Mann: Or in the Italian Cerence.
David Gardner: Which actually would be a lot more fun. Than you could do like the Ricardo Montalban could come back from the dead and sing Cerence.
David Gardner: I need to stop myself.
Bill Mann: These ideas are free.
David Gardner: No keep going somebody giving me more time.
Bill Mann: I can't believe this podcast is free.
David Gardner: Cherenche. You're right, Bill. We should have a premium version where we cut out my singing, Ricardo Montalban. Matt, the ticker symbol for Cerence is CRNC. By the way, I recommend anybody who's interested go onto YouTube, just Google Cerence and see their two-and-a-half minutes promotional video. It only had about 857 views when I looked at it a couple of days ago.
But it's hilarious because it makes you think that you really should be talking to your car more and your car would always here at accurately and would do the thing that you want it to do. Even if you're like paying for something, you're googling, talking to your car. Doesn't feel that plausible for me, but enough about me. Let's talk Matt, about you and your market cap range for Cerence ticker symbol CRNC.
Matt Argersinger: I am going to say 6.7-8.5 billion.
David Gardner: 6.7-8.5 billion. Kind of a tighter range there. Bill, players at home, do you want to agree or disagree with Matt's 6.7-8.5 billion range?
Bill Mann: He is going decimal now.
David Gardner: It's true. We heard that at halftime. That's why sideline reporters are so underrated, undervalued. What they elicit from head coaches and players that have times, gold. Never cliched.
Bill Mann: Never, ever. I'm just delaying. I'm going to say that the actual market cap is outside of his range.
David Gardner: I was shooting in the dark. I wanted to sound confident, though.
Bill Mann: You did.
David Gardner: I was looking at you like cold as eyes staring.
Bill Mann: I know this company. That's right.
David Gardner: That was the ding of victory because Bill, you just clinched a spot in our national championship game next week with your correct answer of disagree for Cerence. By the way, this company's market cap, Matt 630.26 million.
Matt Argersinger: Oh, wow.
David Gardner: This is a small to micro-cap company, AI and driving.
Matt Argersinger: I was off by a factor of ten. I guess I'm a little too, maybe too enthusiastic about that technology.
David Gardner: Will you do say that you talk to your car model that you don't necessarily want to do it more?
Matt Argersinger: I don't. It does what it needs to do and that's about it.
Bill Mann: I would just say that I'm so battle-scarred from nuance that I figured that there's no way that it's [laughs].
David Gardner: It has to be a micro cap. It has to be. We have two more stocks. Again, Bill has six, so he's mathematically clinched, but you player at home, you might have seven or eight, you might be going for a perfect ten, or you might be trying to catch Bill or try to beat Matt. I don't know where you are, but we're playing for you. Let's move on to stock number nine. Bill, you've traveled a lot.
Bill Mann: I've been some places, yeah.
David Gardner: Well, what are two of the more obscure places you've ever been?
Bill Mann: I've been to Brunei and I've been to Albania. One was better than the other, but both obscure and fabulous in their own way.
David Gardner: I'm assuming that the former, in some ways out class the latter.
Bill Mann: No, the opposite, actually. Albania is one of the most physically beautiful countries I think I've ever seen.
David Gardner: Thank you for sharing that, Bill. What are two of the best known places that you've never been?
Bill Mann: Gosh, I have to think about that, actually. I've never been to Egypt and I've never been to Tampa.
Matt Argersinger: I got to be there, at least.
David Gardner: Bill, world traveler that you are, what for you makes a good airport?
Bill Mann: Oh, ease of access. An airport in which you are through to the waiting area as quickly as possible. That is a magical process.
David Gardner: Love me those airports. I was just in one earlier today, Wilmington, North Carolina, a small airport and the Uber driver who took me their said, yeah, I had a lady the other day who said please take me to the American Airlines terminal. I said, yeah, sure.
Bill Mann: Got it.
David Gardner: We're at the front door. [laughs] But one of the great things about small airports is I'm not going to say the security is lax because it's generally good everywhere, but it's just clean, simple, easy, not that many gates in and out. What else do you love about a good airport?
Matt Argersinger: The Concordia lounge.
Bill Mann: Yes, very much that. [laughs] A good lounge is very nice. [laughs] I would say airports in which there are some pretty good amenities, the chance to shop a little bit. It's always disappointing because my wife likes to be at the airport, oh, five hours before the flight. You need to have some options in terms of dining or things to see and sometimes that gets very hard.
David Gardner: I hear you. Well, five hours. Yeah.
Bill Mann: I'm going to get in trouble for that, aren't I?
David Gardner: Bill, have you and your wife ever been to Mexico?
Bill Mann: Yes.
David Gardner: You might have been in one of Grupo Aeroportuario del Pacifico's airports because this company operates, well,12 airports in the Western states of Mexico. No spoilers here. I'm not going to give you any more information than that. You might know more than I do. You seem to about lots of things about this company whose ticker symbol is PAC.
Bill Mann: So much easier to say than the actual name. Although that was such a good job.
David Gardner: I did my best.
Matt Argersinger: Fantastic.
David Gardner: I took high school French and got two on the AP. History will show. But anyway, let me turn to Bill now and ask you Bill for your stated market cap range for Grupo Aeroportuario del Pacifico.
Bill Mann: I am so tickled by the fact that you pointed out that you took French. Therefore, you can say a Spanish name very well.
David Gardner: I actually am good at accents of almost all languages. The problem is, I then present as a seeming native speaker and when somebody who is a native speaker says something back to me, I have no idea what they're saying in just about every language except English.
Bill Mann: You're cooked.
David Gardner: It's hard.
Bill Mann: I've been to their airport in Cabo.
David Gardner: Los Cabos.
Bill Mann: Los Cabos. That is one of their properties. It's a wonderful company and they should be benefiting from the rehoming of American industry or near homing. That is one of the big things that why you would be interested in a company with a series of airports in the western part of Mexico. I'm delaying a little bit, but I'm going to say that the range is 5.1 billion to 7.9 billion.
David Gardner: $5.1 billion to $7.9 billion. Matt Argersinger. Matt, have you been to Mexico?
Matt Argersinger: I have been to Mexico. Only I lived in Arizona at the time we went across the border a few times, but I haven't been to any of the big cities or resorts in Mexico now.
David Gardner: Any memorable experiences in the Mexican airport?
Matt Argersinger: Not that I can recall.
David Gardner: I understand. I don't think I have either, but more importantly, Matt and players at home, Bill said $5.1 billion to $7.9 billion. Do you want to agree or disagree?
Matt Argersinger: Well, second-half strategy here I think I'm going to disagree. I think the more caps bigger than that. I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Bill stays on in historic raw at this point. It was indeed inside his range. In fact, the market cap for ticker symbol PAC is 6.17 billion.
Bill Mann: Oh, nailed it.
David Gardner: It was almost right at one thing and then the middle again. Well done.
Bill Mann: It was a straight guess.
Matt Argersinger: Straight guessed me out of a point, man.
Bill Mann: Sorry.
Matt Argersinger: Well done.
David Gardner: This company does, as I mentioned, operate 12 airports in the Western states and Mexico. It has two in Jamaica. It operates within the major Mexican cities of Guadalajara and Tijuana. Bill, you mentioned Los Cabos, also Puerto Vallarta. It is the second largest airport services company by passenger traffic in Mexico. It serves approximately 51 million passengers annually. Now, this stock has been a recent underperformer. Bill, offline we talked about this a little bit. Maybe you've started this, you may have recommended it at some point.
Bill Mann: Yes. What has happened with the Mexican Airport companies is that the Mexican government has changed the rules for how they get paid, which is their right to do. But it did come as a surprise to both the airport companies and their investors. But I think that for the long term that this is a very interesting company that should do well.
David Gardner: A very profitable company as well. I will say having myself recommended it in 2016 for Stock Advisor, it has been an underperformer. It is subject to multiple instances of government interference. It is a bit opaque anyway, as a business. Its destiny often not fully in its control, but as mentioned, it is quite profitable. Well, Bill, you have racked up seven, Matt, you have two. Now, in our experience with this show, people tend to only remember the last one, so Matt, you have an opportunity to cement yourself in the minds of listeners everywhere as a guy who went out a champion. You are a champion no matter what, that you're here this week. Reminds us of that, but you have a special opportunity here with stock number ten.
Matt Argersinger: It all comes down to this. Can I hold onto my reputation? Howard and tatters and maybe.
Bill Mann: I just wanted to say that I didn't check the spread that Vegas was given in this. There is a chance that you're going to break some better.
Matt Argersinger: I will. If I had plus four-and-a-half and if I get this last one, I think I win.
David Gardner: I'm not sure whether Las Vegas is doing that yet, but I love the idea of that. Turning to you Matt growing up. Matt Argersinger, did you have a go to stuffed animal or blanket or any such thing?
Matt Argersinger: I did up until probably i was about five years old. I had the teddy bear and the blanket going.
David Gardner: Did you name your bear?
Matt Argersinger: Sing sing. I know it's amazing. I have such great recollection is because I think up until he broke around a batteries by the time I was three, I would squeeze them and he would sing a little song.
Bill Mann: That makes a lot of sense.
Matt Argersinger: Of course he stopped doing that after awhile. Back in those days, it wasn't like you can rip them open and replace the battery. Then he stopped singing, but I still call him sing sing.
Bill Mann: Do you have a bear named after a prison?
Matt Argersinger: That's good. I showed a thought that when I was three-year-old.
David Gardner: You mentioned up until the age of five and I know Matt, your son is five. Has Sing Sing been inherited or does Dutch have? What's the OTA?
Matt Argersinger: What's fascinating is not my son, we've bought them teddy bears. In fact, we were skiing recently and they bought the economists stuff's moose and he'll he likes it for about an hour. Then he's got this pile of stuffed animals in his bedroom that he really never touches. He's just not teddy bear blanket kid.
David Gardner: For me curious, George. I still have my curious.
Matt Argersinger: Oh yeah.
David Gardner: Bill, did you have a go-to stuffed animal or blanket?
Bill Mann: Of course I did. It still at her house. Its name is Oatmeal to teddy bear.
David Gardner: I love it. Nice. You and I have both held onto ours today levels of our you don't know if that's as good or bad things about us.
Bill Mann: I do feel like we're having a moment.
David Gardner: Well, let's continue that because discerning listeners are already anticipating this. There are two per show and we've only had one so by a process of elimination, you'll know that stock number 10 is a throwdown. The stock is Build-A-Bear Workshop. The ticker symbol is BBW. Bill and Matt both have their pencils out they're thinking about BBW. A reminder to you, dear listener, all you need to do is simply agree with the player who has the better, tighter, accurate range for Build-a-Bear workshops. Market cap. That's how Throwdown works. Matt I'm going to turn to you first.
Matt Argersinger: I'm thinking this is a pretty small company. I'm going with 650 million to 900 million for Build-A-Bear Workshop.
David Gardner: 650-900 million staying sub $1 billion. Bill what did you write down?
Bill Mann: I wrote 750 million to 1.6 billion.
David Gardner: Big range 750 billion to 1.6 billion. There's a lot of overlap between your respective ranges Bill though, giving himself a wider birth.
Bill Mann: That's how I roll, Dave.
David Gardner: I think I setting that up, not meaning to take a shot. Good enough and taking shots at yourself. Again, Matt, 650-900 million, Bill, 750-1.6 billion players at home. Is it Matt? Is it Bill? Say it now or forever hold your piece. You said it. If you said Matt Argersinger, give yourself up plus.
Bill Mann: It's like come on 901.
David Gardner: Because Build-A-Bear Workshop is smaller than either of you guys. Was estimating Build-a-Bear workshops market cap is $348.45 million. It was outside both of your ranges, but Matt was lower. He had 650 on the low side, so that's closer to the 348.45 million. This is a sum total value at least as estimated by market cap of that enterprise.
This company guys IPO in 2004. It's now been public for 20 years. It started right around $25 a share. Today it's right around $25 a share. It hit a COVID low, by the way, though, below $2 a share. If you want to get excited, the stocks actually up 350% over the past five years to that market cap you just call today, which is still only about $350 million. Have you ever walked into a Build-A-Bear Workshop in the mall?
Matt Argersinger: No. Walked passed them all the time, I guess if I walked in them all with my five-year-old son now he might be tempted to go in. I'm surprised. I feel like the brand equity of the company might be worth more than the market at 340 million, but, I don't know.
Bill Mann: We've left some money at Build-A-Bear Workshop over our time.
David Gardner: Yet not enough. I'm saying I really appreciate Matt's point because I do feel like this is one of those brands that punches above its weight class when you actually look at the market cap of the company. Well, those are all the fun facts I have for Build-A-Bear Workshop. This is a business that doesn't really need fun facts. It just looks fun as I also walk past it and don't drop any money. I'm glad Bill is at the mall or a Build-A-Bear Workshop near you. Thank you both. The final accounting is then this Bill Mann's seven, Matt Argersinger, three, although Matt, you got stocked number 10 with the Throwdown.
Matt Argersinger: If I'm plan all along, just go out on top.
David Gardner: But Bill and Matt and I know that we're not playing this game for each other. We're playing for you. How did you score? Dear Fool, dear listener at home, we, we hope you outscore all of us. The purpose of the Market Cap Game Show is to make more popular. I'm never going to say as popular as, I don't know, Build-A-Bear Workshop.
But to make more popular market caps, the real value of stocks in the market that most people don't understand except that you do understand because you just listened to us for an hour, lay down 10 market caps. I hope you scored at least a few points this week and maybe beat one or both of our competitors, Matt and Bill you both distinguished yourselves. You help make the world a little bit smarter, happier, and richer. This week, Bill, I will see you next week for the national championship closing to March market cap madness. But that's next week. We're finishing up this week. Matt, final thought.
Matt Argersinger: Just great to be back on the show and to score low again, because that's what I tend to do on this, but I have so much fun and I'm rooting hard for Bill Mann next week because he crushed me today. Go get Andy Cross, go get him.
David Gardner: Bill you could talk trash or you don't want to Matt and said something.
Bill Mann: Look at it.
David Gardner: It was a wash his face with all those things. Eyes, lips, face, Bill Mann.
Bill Mann: I feel fortunate to be here. I would just like to thank my competition for putting up a valiant valued fight, and I feel honored to be moving on, David.
David Gardner: Thank you. Very stereotypically well said. By the way, everybody knows about the Oscars. Those happened this week not as many people know about the Raz's, but those happened this week. The worst of the 2023 movie slate honors were given out this week. Did you guys see what one worst picture?
Matt Argersinger: I did not.
David Gardner: I saw the trailer for this in the theaters and they made that. Winnie the pooh, blood and honey, the Slasher terror with Winnie-the-Pooh. Obviously we are talking about Build-A-Bear workshop a dark ending to this week's show, but not really that dark. I celebrate the giving of the Lazi, blood and honey never needed to be made.
Matt Argersinger: Not at all.
Bill Mann: It would have been much darker had anybody actually seen that movie.
David Gardner: That's right. Great line. I wonder if Sing Sing made an appearance. Who will be our first ever Market Cap Game Show national championship. Hey, I hope you're keeping score at home because it might be you. Let me see. Andy had six last week, Bill had seven this week. If you're somewhere in the double-digits, you're right up there and we hope that you'll join us a week from today in the meantime, for Matt Argersinger for Bill Mann, we say stay mad. We'll see you next week. Fool-on.
